[3.5] Spells that grant Damage Reduction

[OgresAreCute]

In my group I have a Barbarian who takes a lot of aggro and eats a lot of damage, to the point that he nearly dies just about every combat encounter that isn't way below level. I have noticed that I mitigate a lot of the damage I would take using Damage Reduction, but it comes from a self-only spell so I can't share it with him.

Are there any good 6th level or lower spells a cleric or wizard can cast to grant damage reduction to a party member? Only one I know of is Stoneskin, which is less than impressive between the limit to damage absorption and the material cost.

[MultitudeMan]

I know it's not really the same, but has this Barbarian already got an enhancement bonus to their Con, or a deflection bonus to their AC? Neither Bear's Endurance nor Shield of Faith provide DR, but extra HP and AC all help, and at the cost of low-level spell slots, rather than a high level one. If your party is level 11 or so (as the request for 6th level spells implies), then we're talking 22 HP and +3 AC (+4 at level 12), assuming they stack appropriately with existing items etc., and there's other options like Blur as well, and I haven't even looked outside Core so far. Maybe a pile of smaller buffs is the answer?

[OgresAreCute]

I know it's not really the same, but has this Barbarian already got an enhancement bonus to their Con, or a deflection bonus to their AC? Neither Bear's Endurance nor Shield of Faith provide DR, but extra HP and AC all help, and at the cost of low-level spell slots, rather than a high level one. If your party is level 11 or so (as the request for 6th level spells implies), then we're talking 22 HP and +3 AC (+4 at level 12), assuming they stack appropriately with existing items etc., and there's other options like Blur as well, and I haven't even looked outside Core so far. Maybe a pile of smaller buffs is the answer?

I don't rightly know what he has. We do try to give him some defensive buffs, but I don't think he has a deflection or shield bonus at the moment. The reason I wanted to give him damage reduction is because we have recently been fighting a lot of groups, meaning if he takes 4 full attacks with 3 attacks each, DR 10 would prevent 120 damage. Buffs to hit points aren't going to give that much value, and it's hard to get his AC high enough for it to be meaningful.

[Elkad]

If it's consistently "almost" without taking extreme measures to keep him alive, it's probably not a big concern. He's just using his hitpoints efficiently.

Ice Shield (Frostburn) is DR15/-, 10pts/CL, but it takes ColdFire as a component.
DiamondSteel (SC) adds DR to his armor. rounds/level, but it's cheap at 50gp.
DemonHide has two versions (SC and MH), DR5/good+iron or DR10/good+10) [Evil] descriptor.
Invest (light/moderate/heavy) Protection, PH2
Soul of (alignment) gives DR3 if you combine 2 of them (good and law or similar)
Polymorph him into something with DR.

Non-spell ways.
How about an Greater Iron Ward Armor Crystal? DR5/-, 50pts/day, for 8k gp. And nothing says he can't buy several and swap in a new one after each encounter.
Buff his AC. - protection from evil, haste, Magic Vestment, etc.
Give him temp hitpoints, either directly or by boosting his Con.
Give him miss chance - Displacement.

[OgresAreCute]

If it's consistently "almost" without taking extreme measures to keep him alive, it's probably not a big concern. He's just using his hitpoints efficiently.

He has died 2-3 times in the past. In one encounter he went into the negatives and only survived because I happened to have mass lesser vigor active (for just such an occasion), in a more recent encounter he went into the negatives and would have died if the wizard didn't teleport him back to base and got a retired DMPC to save him.


Ice Shield (Frostburn) is DR15/-, 10pts/CL, but it takes ColdFire as a component.
DiamondSteel (SC) adds DR to his armor. rounds/level, but it's cheap at 50gp.
DemonHide has two versions (SC and MH), DR5/good+iron or DR10/good+10) [Evil] descriptor.
Invest (light/moderate/heavy) Protection, PH2
Soul of (alignment) gives DR3 if you combine 2 of them (good and law or similar)
Polymorph him into something with DR.

I can't really afford to spend actions in combat on round/level spells, maybe I can get the wizard to. Polymorph sadly isn't very optimal because he gets a lot of his strength from a template, so polymorphing would most likely make him weaker. I was also under the impression that DR is usually a special quality, and so isn't granted by polymorph?


Non-spell ways.
How about an Greater Iron Ward Armor Crystal? DR5/-, 50pts/day, for 8k gp. And nothing says he can't buy several and swap in a new one after each encounter.
Buff his AC. - protection from evil, haste, Magic Vestment, etc.
Give him temp hitpoints, either directly or by boosting his Con.
Give him miss chance - Displacement.

Crystal seems good for the price. Miss chance effects seem to mostly be on the wizard list, but something like displacement, greater invisibility or an extended blur would be pretty good for keeping him alive.

[AnimeTheCat]

A cloak of displacement could take the responsibility off of the wizard, and better if the wizard can craft it. I prefer the minor version as it is an always on 20% as opposed to 15 rounds of actual displacement. A ring of Blinking would probably be best. I believe there are ways to mitigate your own 20% miss chance from it, and it's always on. Really quite the incredible ring.

[Biggus]

The Greater Ironward crystal can only be attached to heavy armour, so it's no good for most Barbarians. The Lesser crystal however gives DR 3/- for only 2,000GP so you can easily afford several by your level, and it can be attached to medium armour. And the really important part is, unlike most other DR items it stacks with his existing DR.

There's the Greater Resiliency feat from CW, which increases his base DR by 1.

In BoED there's the 6th-level Cleric spell Celestial Blood, which lasts for minutes per level, and gives DR 10/ magic among other things.

But yeah, miss chances are definitely a good idea. If the MiC is in play, possibly get the Wizard a Circlet of Rapid Casting so they can cast Blur or Displacement on him 2 or 3 times a day as swift actions. Or club together to buy the Barbarian a Minor Cloak of Displacement, for 24,000GP that's a 20% miss chance all day long.

Alternatively, there's Lesser Ironguard (S/W 5, SpC) which only lasts for rounds per level, but makes him totally immune to attacks from nonmagical metal.

EDIT: when you get 7th-level spells, Fortunate Fate (SpC) is a good way to stop him dying, lasts 10mins/ level and auto-casts Heal on him if he dies from HP damage.

[Seerow]

Also worth keeping in mind crowd control effects are in general going to be a better option than granting DR to reduce overall damage taken. Delay to line up your initiatives, let him charge in, then immediately after charging in drop something like Ice Storm or Solid Fog to slow down other enemies attempting to close on him.

[OgresAreCute]

Also worth keeping in mind crowd control effects are in general going to be a better option than granting DR to reduce overall damage taken. Delay to line up your initiatives, let him charge in, then immediately after charging in drop something like Ice Storm or Solid Fog to slow down other enemies attempting to close on him.

I'm more-or-less the primary damage dealer so I can't really afford to spend too many actions keeping this goon alive, and most of the good BFC spells are sor/wiz. I don't think the wizard has very many of them. I know he has stinking cloud, but being a third level spell, the save DC is often a little on the low end. A bunch of these dangerous encounters also begin already in melee range, so slowing the enemies won't really prevent damage.

A combination of these factors is why I think it's probably easiest to just get the Barb some "don't die" juice without compromising our action economy too much. For what it's worth, he also has Wrathful Healing on his weapon as of last session, which would make defensive buffs like miss chance or DR more valuable. Without these defenses, he still got downed on round 2 of combat last session.

[Requiem_Jeer]

So you say you are a cleric that gains significant protection from damage reduction? Then I suggest shield other. Hours/level, every half-damage hit headed your way gets your DR applied, and I could also suggest some action-economy friendly self- healing options as well. I've played a melee cleric that used mass shield other to tank before, I remember most of the tricks I used.

[OgresAreCute]

So you say you are a cleric that gains significant protection from damage reduction? Then I suggest shield other. Hours/level, every half-damage hit headed your way gets your DR applied, and I could also suggest some action-economy friendly self- healing options as well. I've played a melee cleric that used mass shield other to tank before, I remember most of the tricks I used.

Now this is interesting. For out of combat healing I have fast healing, so I'll be up to full for each encounter basically. Did you have anything for in-combat healing too?

[Yogibear41]

So you say you are a cleric that gains significant protection from damage reduction? Then I suggest shield other. Hours/level, every half-damage hit headed your way gets your DR applied, and I could also suggest some action-economy friendly self- healing options as well. I've played a melee cleric that used mass shield other to tank before, I remember most of the tricks I used.


You should check with your DM first, some people say that damage transfered via Shield other is not reduced by Damage reduction or resistances, even if the original damage was of that type.

Also what is your party's alignment? Might open up or restrict certain spells.


Can you persist touch spells some groups can others can't?

Is Minute(s)/level long enough duration?

[OgresAreCute]

You should check with your DM first, some people say that damage transfered via Shield other is not reduced by Damage reduction or resistances, even if the original damage was of that type.

Also what is your party's alignment? Might open up or restrict certain spells.


Can you persist touch spells some groups can others can't?

Is Minute(s)/level long enough duration?

I am a lawful neutral cleric, channeling negative energy. The wizard is something Good, there's also a wizard cohort who is I assume neutral or maybe good. My deity is lawful evil if it matters.

I don't think we've gotten a ruling on persisting touch spells from the DM, but I do have a lesser metamagic rod of reach spell if I need the workaround.

Minutes/level extended should last for an entire dungeon, so that's probably fine.

[Yogibear41]

Every spell I have found that isn't personal either doesn't last very long Invest Protection line, provides minimal DR 1/magic etc. or costs a decent amount in material components and is only DR/Magic.

If you are going to start shelling out large amounts of gold on spells every day, probably better just to spend the gold on a magic item that does it permanently or some adamantine armor for the barbarian.

Breast Plate of Terror from Magic Item Compendium is a +1 adamantine breastplate that gives DR 2/- that specifically stacks with Barbarian Damage Reduction. That is probably going to be the best item as far as GP costs go. 4/- at 10th level isn't great, but if you are all fighting a bunch of weaker monsters at once it could add up alot.

There are a few feats out there that boost DR as well.

[Biggus]

Breast Plate of Terror from Magic Item Compendium is a +1 adamantine breastplate that gives DR 2/- that specifically stacks with Barbarian Damage Reduction. That is probably going to be the best item as far as GP costs go. 4/- at 10th level isn't great, but if you are all fighting a bunch of weaker monsters at once it could add up alot.

There are a few feats out there that boost DR as well.

Breastplate of Terror doesn't stack with the Lesser Ironguard crystal mentioned above, which is much cheaper and gives stacking DR 3/- for a total of 5/- for a 10th-level Barbarian.

The only nonepic feat I know of which boosts DR is Greater Resiliency, what else is there?

[Seerow]

Breastplate of Terror doesn't stack with the Lesser Ironguard crystal mentioned above, which is much cheaper and gives stacking DR 3/- for a total of 5/- for a 10th-level Barbarian.

The only nonepic feat I know of which boosts DR is Greater Resiliency, what else is there?

Roll with It from Savage species I think is 2/-.

[SirNibbles]

Shield of Lathander (Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 110) gives DR 15/-. It only lasts 1 round so you'll need Persist cheese to get it to work for your purposes.

Another option is simply making it costly for enemies to hit him: Babau Slime (Spell Compendium, page 22) will make enemies take 1d8 acid damage for hitting with an Unarmed Strike, Natural Weapon, or Touch Attack. It's a 1st level spell and lasts minutes/level.

[Vizzerdrix]

It only takes a single spell to gain the mineral warrior template. He will get DR 10 and lots of tasty beef along with it.

If he can spare 3 feats, aberrant dragonmark (shield), opens mark of maddness ( meh), that in turn opens mark of xoriat for DR 5/ something you will never run into. Doable at lv. 1 with flaws. Human fighter1 with flaws can grab that and troll blooded for some after combat healing as well.

[Biggus]

Roll with It from Savage species I think is 2/-.

OK, that's...quite a lot better than Greater Resiliency. Double the bonus, can be taken multiple times, and doesn't require existing DR. Requires you to completely waste a feat on Toughness, but if you really want to max out your DR, worth it.


Shield of Lathander (Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 110) gives DR 15/-. It only lasts 1 round so you'll need Persist cheese to get it to work for your purposes.


I did think about Shield of Lathander, but it requires you to worship Lathander and take the Initiate of Lathander feat. Add to that the 1-round casting time and the fact that WotC have twice said that Persistent Spell doesn't include touch spells (in the FRCS errata and the FAQ) and it's no use unless the DM is feeling reeeeally generous...

[Crichton]

I did think about Shield of Lathander, but it requires you to worship Lathander and take the Initiate of Lathander feat. Add to that the 1-round casting time and the fact that WotC have twice said that Persistent Spell doesn't include touch spells (in the FRCS errata and the FAQ) and it's no use unless the DM is feeling reeeeally generous...

Can't help you with the worshiping Lathander, or needing the feat, but there's 5 different sources of Persistent Spell, and only the Errata of FRCS has made any mention of touch. That includes 2 newer, 3.5 sources, one of which makes the claim to be a direct update of FRCS (Player's Guide to Faerun). So while they chose to put the wording about touch in the FRCS errata in 2001, the other 4 sources were published after FRCS, not to mention that they intentionally(one assumes) left it out of PGtF, and the PGtF errata in 2004.






3.0:

June 2001 - FRCS - no mention of touch
July 2001 - Tome and Blood - no mention of touch (no errata)
November 2001 - FRCS Errata - changes wording in FRCS to exclude touch
April 2002 - Deities and Demigods - no mention of touch (no errata)


3.5:

March 2004 - PGtF - no mention of touch (claims in Introduction to be 3.5 update of FRCS material) (no mention in PGtF errata either)
November 2004 - Complete Arcane - no mention of touch (no mention in errata either)





I'm not gonna say that's evidence that you should allow players to persist touch spells, just that it's evidence that WotC said no, and then promptly backpedaled and retracted that statement, 4 times.

[Biggus]

Can't help you with the worshiping Lathander, or needing the feat, but there's 5 different sources of Persistent Spell, and only the Errata of FRCS has made any mention of touch. That includes 2 newer, 3.5 sources, one of which makes the claim to be a direct update of FRCS (Player's Guide to Faerun). So while they chose to put the wording about touch in the FRCS errata in 2001, the other 4 sources were published after FRCS, not to mention that they intentionally(one assumes) left it out of PGtF, and the PGtF errata in 2004.

I'm not gonna say that's evidence that you should allow players to persist touch spells, just that it's evidence that WotC said no, and then promptly backpedaled and retracted that statement, 4 times.

Not repeating something you already said isn't the same as retracting it. But you can interpret their not repeating it either way, so I'm not going to try to argue that point any further.

However, if you want a 3.5 source, there's Heroes of Battle p.113 where touch spells are listed as a different category to fixed range:


Spells you cast through an eldritch tapestry have their range category increased: touch spells become close range, close-range spells become medium range, and medium-range spells become long range. Long-range spells and spells with fixed ranges are unaffected.

[Ramza00]

Quick Potion Spell (2nd level slot) allows you to make a potion out of your or your allies spell slots. So 2nd Level+ The spell you are casting.

Delay Potion Feat allows you to injest the potion before combat and activate it as a Swift action in a number of hours equal to your Con mod.

Displacement is 3rd level spell that gives you a 50% miss chance.

So together your barbarian as a Swift action, a feat, a 2nd level, and 3rd level slot now has a 50% miss chance with the Barbarians actions not your own.

[OgresAreCute]

It only takes a single spell to gain the mineral warrior template. He will get DR 10 and lots of tasty beef along with it.

If he can spare 3 feats, aberrant dragonmark (shield), opens mark of maddness ( meh), that in turn opens mark of xoriat for DR 5/ something you will never run into. Doable at lv. 1 with flaws. Human fighter1 with flaws can grab that and troll blooded for some after combat healing as well.

If I can get the DM to agree that Mineralize Warrior doesn't bestow LA since it has a big XP cost, that would be really good. I'd also need a favorable allowance on the target line, as the barbarian is a Giant, not a Humanoid.

He most certainly cannot spare 3 feats. On a good day he might be able to spare one single one.


Shield of Lathander (Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 110) gives DR 15/-. It only lasts 1 round so you'll need Persist cheese to get it to work for your purposes.

Another option is simply making it costly for enemies to hit him: Babau Slime (Spell Compendium, page 22) will make enemies take 1d8 acid damage for hitting with an Unarmed Strike, Natural Weapon, or Touch Attack. It's a 1st level spell and lasts minutes/level.

I could persist it, but I don't have reach spell and can't really afford a metamagic rod of reach spell either. Setting material is usually fine, but we're in a homebrew setting so I dunno if my DM would allow faerun-specific deity-specific material like that. Also don't have feats to spare.


Quick Potion Spell (2nd level slot) allows you to make a potion out of your or your allies spell slots. So 2nd Level+ The spell you are casting.

Delay Potion Feat allows you to injest the potion before combat and activate it as a Swift action in a number of hours equal to your Con mod.

Displacement is 3rd level spell that gives you a 50% miss chance.

So together your barbarian as a Swift action, a feat, a 2nd level, and 3rd level slot now has a 50% miss chance with the Barbarians actions not your own.

This seems pretty good if I can get one of the wizards do scribe Quick Potion. Not sure if the barbarian is willing to spend a feat on Delay Potion, but it might be worth the standard action in certain encounters anyway.

[Vizzerdrix]

Could always turn him into a half golem. Iron gets DR 25/+2, +11 nat armor, and +12 str.

[Ramza00]

This seems pretty good if I can get one of the wizards do scribe Quick Potion. Not sure if the barbarian is willing to spend a feat on Delay Potion, but it might be worth the standard action in certain encounters anyway.

An Eternal Wand of Quick Potion is 4420 GP if bought (or 2210 GP+177 XP+5 Days with Craft Wand+Craft Wondrous Item , the spell contained in the eternal wand.) That gives you 2 quick potions per day. Changing spell slot into actions your allies can use for a small amount of gold.

Technically eternal wands are just craft wondrous item guidelines of Spell Level * Caster Level * 1800 * 5/5 for 5 uses per day, or Spell Level * Caster Level * 1800 * 2/5 for 2 uses per day.

1800*2*3*.4=4320 GP. But what the Eternal Wand costs 4420 not 4320? Well that is because the Eternal Wand uses the fancy metal rod for a 100 gp cost like this is a masterwork weapon being added to the magic item cost instead of the general rule that the formula for a magical effect is the cost. Thus Eternal Wands are cheaper for Sorcerers to make than the normal Craft Wondrous Item guidelines, but a little more expensive for Wizards for you pay the extra 100 gp for the wand (or 50 GP plus some xp with crafting it.)

----

Or you can do the 2nd level Pearl of Power (4,000 GP, 2000 GP + XP and time if you craft it) to not expend 2nd level Wizard Slots. My point here is the amount of return is worth the investment.

And while using a feat is so worth making the potion a swift action instead of a standard action to drink (and often a move action to retrieve if the potion is in a haversack. That said there is a special belt that makes potions a free action to retrieve up to 10 potions, but still a standard action to drink, and also several other items that do similar things but are less good like the potion bladder.)

My point here is quick potion is good on its own, and especially if you use delay potion. Not just for Displacement, but also you could do Haste, or Enlarge Person, and so on. Even level 1 to 3 buffs is a good use of the barbarian swift and standard actions and via potions the barbarian is a mini spellcaster buffer with the spell quick potion and allies willing to give up a spell to fill up the quick potion water.

[OgresAreCute]

Could always turn him into a half golem. Iron gets DR 25/+2, +11 nat armor, and +12 str.

The DM himself actually suggested this last session. I'll see if there is a way I can facilitate this. The Will save is a little worrying, though. Fella probably doesn't have more than a +4 or +5 on his will save. 50/50 shot at losing your character isn't great.


An Eternal Wand of Quick Potion is 4420 GP if bought (or 2210 GP+177 XP+5 Days with Craft Wand+Craft Wondrous Item , the spell contained in the eternal wand.) That gives you 2 quick potions per day. Changing spell slot into actions your allies can use for a small amount of gold.

Technically eternal wands are just craft wondrous item guidelines of Spell Level * Caster Level * 1800 * 5/5 for 5 uses per day, or Spell Level * Caster Level * 1800 * 2/5 for 2 uses per day.

1800*2*3*.4=4320 GP. But what the Eternal Wand costs 4420 not 4320? Well that is because the Eternal Wand uses the fancy metal rod for a 100 gp cost like this is a masterwork weapon being added to the magic item cost instead of the general rule that the formula for a magical effect is the cost. Thus Eternal Wands are cheaper for Sorcerers to make than the normal Craft Wondrous Item guidelines, but a little more expensive for Wizards for you pay the extra 100 gp for the wand (or 50 GP plus some xp with crafting it.)

----

Or you can do the 2nd level Pearl of Power (4,000 GP, 2000 GP + XP and time if you craft it) to not expend 2nd level Wizard Slots. My point here is the amount of return is worth the investment.

And while using a feat is so worth making the potion a swift action instead of a standard action to drink (and often a move action to retrieve if the potion is in a haversack. That said there is a special belt that makes potions a free action to retrieve up to 10 potions, but still a standard action to drink, and also several other items that do similar things but are less good like the potion bladder.)

My point here is quick potion is good on its own, and especially if you use delay potion. Not just for Displacement, but also you could do Haste, or Enlarge Person, and so on. Even level 1 to 3 buffs is a good use of the barbarian swift and standard actions and via potions the barbarian is a mini spellcaster buffer with the spell quick potion and allies willing to give up a spell to fill up the quick potion water.

I hadn't considered eternal wands. I could buy one myself and substitute domain to magic so I can use it without demanding that anyone else in the party plays along with my plan. Alternatively I could substitute domain to Spell and use anyspell to prepare quick potion.

[TotallyNotEvil]

You can always buff his Will sky high with some simple spells, such as Tyche's Touch and Conviction. Get a Bead of Karma to pump your cleric's CL, and that's +8 to his save right there, or +7 without it.

As a 11th level cleric, you can prepare Superior Resistance. That should bring him to auto-succeeding the save, or only failing on a Nat 1.

Which is why you should also prepare Alter Fortune. It's a bit of XP, but granting him the reroll would be priceless in case he fails, and he'd succeed in anything bu to straight 1s. The Wizard can also prepare it, so he can roll three times if need be.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

The wizard could cast Starmantle on him. It's not technically DR, but it negates nonmagical attacks and halves magical attack damage on a DC 15 reflex save. Being minutes/level it's in the "pre-buff when you know a tough combat is coming" category.

For the "AC isn't meaningful" issue, if the barbarian dips Warblade 1 he could ready Wall of Blades and substitute his attack roll for AC. That should be pretty relevant.

[OgresAreCute]

The wizard could cast Starmantle on him. It's not technically DR, but it negates nonmagical attacks and halves magical attack damage on a DC 15 reflex save. Being minutes/level it's in the "pre-buff when you know a tough combat is coming" category.

For the "AC isn't meaningful" issue, if the barbarian dips Warblade 1 he could ready Wall of Blades and substitute his attack roll for AC. That should be pretty relevant.

Unfortunately, Tome of Battle is not in play. Starmantle seems pretty good, but he'd need some save boosting as well to make his reflex save worthwhile.

[Crichton]

Unfortunately, Tome of Battle is not in play. Starmantle seems pretty good, but he'd need some save boosting as well to make his reflex save worthwhile.

Still, unless he's facing magical weapons frequently, Starmantle will negate all damage from nonmagical weapons, no save involved

[Ramza00]

Unfortunately, Tome of Battle is not in play. Starmantle seems pretty good, but he'd need some save boosting as well to make his reflex save worthwhile.

What sources are allowed, boosting saves is easy for a cleric, plus some cheap magic items.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Why does your barbarian friend seemingly have zero defenses? If he doesn't get full attacked to death he's going to get wrecked by a single spell. Did he do a full on one-trick-pony ubercharger with zero investment in anything but damage? Maybe he should be allowed to retrain some things.

Since saves are an issue: Superior Resistance is a 6th level spell that gives a +6 resistance bonus to saves for 24 hours. Extend (medium rod is 11k) for 48 hour coverage. Recitation is a nice one: +2 luck bonus to AC/saves/attack, +3 for you, persistable. Mass Conviction is another generally-useful spell you could cast that gives a scaling morale bonus to saves with a nice 10 min/level duration.

[Ramza00]

Why does your barbarian friend seemingly have zero defenses? If he doesn't get full attacked to death he's going to get wrecked by a single spell. Did he do a full on one-trick-pony ubercharger with zero investment in anything but damage? Maybe he should be allowed to retrain some things.

Since saves are an issue: Superior Resistance is a 6th level spell that gives a +6 resistance bonus to saves for 24 hours. Extend (medium rod is 11k) for 48 hour coverage. Recitation is a nice one: +2 luck bonus to AC/saves/attack, +3 for you, persistable. Mass Conviction is another generally-useful spell you could cast that gives a scaling morale bonus to saves with a nice 10 min/level duration.

Add Benediction for a different choice with Recitation. Both are luck saves bonus.

Benediction is a 2nd level spell for 1 party member, touch, and thus you could put it into a potionmore on this later but at 10 min / level the use of doing it at a potion is not that important in most cases.

10 Mins / Level, One Party Member.
+2 Luck Bonus to Saves
+Spell remaining duration can be discharged to give you a luck reroll on anly single attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check after seeing the result of the initial roll, but before finding out whether it succeeds or fails. The higher of the two rolls applies.

Recitation is a 4th level spell for the party, but it is in an in combat spell.
Party Buff, lasts 1 round per level. Standard Action to cast.

+2 luck bonus to Saves
+2 luck bonus to AC,
+2 luck bonus to attack rolls
these benefits are upgraded +3 luck bonus if they worship the same deity as you.


So there are some trade offs depending on which is more advantageous to you on an action economy. When you need it as a standard action, or 10 min per level but it may be cast at the wrong time. Also is the Attack Rolls and AC bonus more important, or the reroll on Attack Roll, Saves, Skill Check, Ability Check (so also Initiative) and so on.

Now remember I mentioned potions earlier, well Benediction has a clause it must be cast on an ally member, and the ally member is not you. How does this interact with the quick potion feat?

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Tyche Touch is another good 2nd level cleric spell for it is a Sacred Bonus that is +1 to +4 for 24 hours.

+6 Resistance from Superior Resistance
+2 Luck Benediction, or +3 from Recitation
+1 to +4 Sacred Tyche Touch, +4 for the first save, +3 for the second, +2 for the 3rd, +1 for the 4th, and then no bonus after the 4th save
+2 to +5 Moral Mass Conviction dependent on caster level

All these stack for Resistance, Luck, Sacred, and Moral are different sources for the save bonuses. Thus up to +17 with your saves via a 6th level spell, a 2nd level spell, a 2nd level spell, and a 3rd level spell and the Mass Conviction is a party boost, if you just want plain conviction it is a 1st level spell that does the same thing.

[OgresAreCute]

Still, unless he's facing magical weapons frequently, Starmantle will negate all damage from nonmagical weapons, no save involved

A lot of the creatures we fight don't really use weapons at all.


What sources are allowed, boosting saves is easy for a cleric, plus some cheap magic items.

Pretty much anything that isn't ToB. Dragon Magazine is on a case-by-base for the most part. Setting material (even dragonmarks) is for the most part available.


Why does your barbarian friend seemingly have zero defenses? If he doesn't get full attacked to death he's going to get wrecked by a single spell. Did he do a full on one-trick-pony ubercharger with zero investment in anything but damage? Maybe he should be allowed to retrain some things.

Since saves are an issue: Superior Resistance is a 6th level spell that gives a +6 resistance bonus to saves for 24 hours. Extend (medium rod is 11k) for 48 hour coverage. Recitation is a nice one: +2 luck bonus to AC/saves/attack, +3 for you, persistable. Mass Conviction is another generally-useful spell you could cast that gives a scaling morale bonus to saves with a nice 10 min/level duration.

The barbarian is barely sapient and mostly likes to "smash". Out of character, the player usually doesn't like trawling through lots of books so the DM helped him make something relatively simple. Unlike a seemingly large amount of people on these forums, we don't really fight spellcasters or classed NPCs all that often, so being vulnerable to spells isn't such a big deal. The most important part is just to not get bludgeoned to death.

I don't really have the slots to spare for recitation and resistance until I level up. Recitation also isn't useful to me outside of AC since I already have bigger luck bonuses.

Edit: thought recitation was 3rd level. I can spare a slot for it, but then I'm gonna be hurting for turn attempts if I persist it, and it's still mostly just useful for my party.

[Crichton]

A lot of the creatures we fight don't really use weapons at all.



Then Starmantle is really a great option for when he's taking hits from a bunch of baddies. He'd be 100% immune to all attacks that aren't at least with a +1 weapon(or equivalent) for 1 min/level of the caster. Any attacks from weapons that are magical, he still gets to save for half damage. There's even an item of it, the Starmantle Cloak, for later when he can afford it.


It's basically DR infinity/magic

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Regarding whether Recitation is worthwhile, it depends on (a) whether it's persisted, giving those bonuses out all day for no actions, and (b) party composition. If it's just the barbarian enjoying most of the bonuses it's probably not worth it, but if you have permanent minions or other PC buddies then those bonuses really start adding up.

Regarding Starmantle, there are two main rules dysfunctions associated with the spell. The first, as we've encountered, is how to treat natural weapons. This goes to a larger issue of "is a natural weapon a (melee) weapon?" The most technical reading of Starmantle and related text is that natural weapons are weapons, and weapon attacks include natural weapon attacks. This leads to an insane dysfunction where not only do natural attacks do no damage against someone with Starmantle - they dissolve into light. Another reading is that natural weapon attacks aren't weapon attacks, even though they're attacks with natural weapons. The conclusion is a bit cleaner, but I've already gone cross-eyed from the tortured logic. I personally rule that natural weapons are weapons (and natural weapon attacks are weapon attacks) but I house rule that natural weapons and unarmed attacks always count as magical for the purpose of Starmantle.

The other issue with Starmantle is how evasion applies to the reflex save to halve incoming damage. I house rule that evasion does not apply.

[Crichton]

Regarding whether Recitation is worthwhile, it depends on (a) whether it's persisted, giving those bonuses out all day for no actions, and (b) party composition. If it's just the barbarian enjoying most of the bonuses it's probably not worth it, but if you have permanent minions or other PC buddies then those bonuses really start adding up.

Regarding Starmantle, there are two main rules dysfunctions associated with the spell. The first, as we've encountered, is how to treat natural weapons. This goes to a larger issue of "is a natural weapon a (melee) weapon?" The most technical reading of Starmantle and related text is that natural weapons are weapons, and weapon attacks include natural weapon attacks. This leads to an insane dysfunction where not only do natural attacks do no damage against someone with Starmantle - they dissolve into light. Another reading is that natural weapon attacks aren't weapon attacks, even though they're attacks with natural weapons. The conclusion is a bit cleaner, but I've already gone cross-eyed from the tortured logic. I personally rule that natural weapons are weapons (and natural weapon attacks are weapon attacks) but I house rule that natural weapons and unarmed attacks always count as magical for the purpose of Starmantle.

The other issue with Starmantle is how evasion applies to the reflex save to halve incoming damage. I house rule that evasion does not apply.

I like those houserule/clarifications. Good call. I guess the couple times I've seen it used, we ruled that natural weapons don't count as weapon attacks, so they (and unarmed strikes) are unaffected by it, but we never really got any deeper into the logic than that. It's not one that's seen much use, at our table.

[Yogibear41]

The barbarian is barely sapient and mostly likes to "smash".


I was going to make a comment about the in character consequences of turning into a living rock or living metal man, but seems the character has little personality or character development to begin with so /shrug.

[Requiem_Jeer]

Now this is interesting. For out of combat healing I have fast healing, so I'll be up to full for each encounter basically. Did you have anything for in-combat healing too?

Tricks I've used:
Conduit of life is... Complete champion I believe. It's a 2nd level 10 minute/level self buff that heals you 2d10+10 every time you turn undead (I had quicken turning from an item to extend this utility), and more importantly, if you get hit with other healing, it discharges, healing you for 3d8+10. Combine that with the weak healing from an immediate action heal like close wounds and it's a nice chunk.

Soul of light is an hour length buff from dragon magic that boosts healing based on the spell level of the heal. Combine the 5th level SpC spell Darts of Life and you get a decent chunk of 1d8+10 healing every round to the barbarian as a free action, total 10d8+100,which is not a small number. Darts of Life is also pretty synergistic with other healing boosts that apply additional healing instead of multiplicative.

I hope these help. The other tricks I've used rely on radiant servant of pelor(a house ruled into actually being good at healing version even) or prestige paladin (paladin list has some doozies)