WH40k- Dawn of War

[Tor the Fallen]

So I've been playing my roommate's Dawn of War lately, and is it just me, or are the Space Marines insanely overpowered? I've only played through the campaign, and messed around playing hard comps (no actual players, yet), but my first impression has been that Space Marines pwn all.

1. Their units are slightly more expensive, but with upgrades and the right weapon mix, they can reliably take down anything.

2. Their towers are cheap, have huge range, tons of health, and mow through tier 1 and 2 units with ease. This makes holding captured points extremely easy.

3. In general, less micro is required, since fewer of their units die and need replacing. The orcs require considerable micro, as their squads are always losing units.

4. Terminator squads. Sure, it's a relic unit, but they're so tough! They also teleport. Unless engaging a huge vehicle or another relic unit, nothing really stands a chance. And they're much cheaper, build faster, teleport, and can be drop podded into anywhere after they build, compared to other relic units.

5. Apothecaries.

[Penguinizer]

Humm, nothing compared to Necrons. Nightbringers that resurrect in the middle of the enemy base if you get your lord there. Monoliths that take god knows how much to kill and have a wicked aoe. Yes please.

[Tor the Fallen]

Humm, nothing compared to Necrons. Nightbringers that resurrect in the middle of the enemy base if you get your lord there. Monoliths that take god knows how much to kill and have a wicked aoe. Yes please.

I'm playing Dawn of War, not the expansions. I heard that the Marines got a nerf, though, especially with their towers.

[BRC]

I'm playing Dawn of War, not the expansions. I heard that the Marines got a nerf, though, especially with their towers.
Yeah, Marines get progressivly nerfed in subsequent expansions.

[Penguinizer]

Ahh, yeah, with DC, Necrons rule as do Eldar in good hands. There are mods to fix that luckily.

[Hawriel]

What space marines over powered? :smallconfused: OH no games workshops pet army would never be over powered at all :smallamused:

[Xuincherguixe]

I kind of fealt the same way.
Eldar struck me as total wimps. Orks I didn't really play much.

Chaos rocked, but they're a lot like Space Marines to begin with so it stands to reason they'd be similar. I imagine if I played those armies more I'd come up with some strategies but all in all I really got the feeling that Space Marines > Everything.

[SmartAlec]

An old adage I remember from reading the Dawn of War forums was "Orks rule the early game; Space Marines rule the mid-game; Eldar rule the end-game".

This meant the Marines are easier to use, as it's harder to set up a fast infrastructure with Orks or hang in there and develop fast with Eldar than it is to develop to the midpoint and then attack with the Marines, but in the hands of a player who knew what he was doing, either could overwhelm the Marines with their advantages.

(Not sure if that's still true or not.)

[Morty]

In DoW without expansions, Space Marines were indeed powerful, maybe even overpowered. Eldar, on the other hand, were preety weak.
I don't have DC, but I noticed they nerfed SM and boosted eldar in Winter Assault, which is good. But why did they have to nerf Orks as well?:smallannoyed: In un-patched version of WI Ork Slugga Boys for instance are extremely gimped. I thought it's just my impression, but I played DoW without expansion to check that and Orks had a lot easier time. I hope it is fixed in DC.

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Necrons? Overpowered? In the time it takes to produce a single squad of three Warriors I've got twenty Guardsmen making a zergling rush on his base. Necrons are just too damn slow, and it's a significant disadvantage. True, they can win most fights- but against the Necrons, you can pick and choose your fights.

[Mr._Blinky]

Necrons? Overpowered? In the time it takes to produce a single squad of three Warriors I've got twenty Guardsmen making a zergling rush on his base. Necrons are just too damn slow, and it's a significant disadvantage. True, they can win most fights- but against the Necrons, you can pick and choose your fights.

Yeah, but in the time it takes you to actually take out those warriors and start on his base, he's already produced another squad, and maybe a turret or two. And then you get slaughtered by his counterattack. The guardsmen just don't have the firepower necessary to take down his Monolith fast enough to make a difference.

[Arang]

I thought IG wasn't supposed to rush. Run away Tier 1 and 2, get grenade launchers in T3, and then come back to rule in T4.

The only level I ever rushed on in the single player campaign was the Necron stronghold in DC. Command Squad ran by itself all the way across the map and back again, constantly building priests and using Fanaticism. It worked, barely.

[warty goblin]

Yeah, Necrons own IG hard, particularly pre-vehicle. All you need to do is to engage the Guard squads in melee- they get protection from the other guard's fire and totally dominate the guards in H2H combat. Grenade launchers help a bit, but really you need a basilisk to disrupt the 'crons before they can close to melee.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Guard kick ass once they get their tanks on the field...without that...it doesn't really matter. Their squads are way too weak compared to the others. Not sure about the heavy weapon squads.

Once those tanks are out though...a squad of infantry per tank, and then make a fireing line...watch those monoliths go down fast...make any squad cry...

I love the level of Winter Assault as the IG when you are protecting some Eldar and falling back against an orc rush...you are getting hammered, and likely loosing steadily as the horde just keeps comming...and just when you think you are completely screwed...a Baneblade and 2 leman russ tanks show up...and they Pwn the entire orc army pretty much on their own...

Yeah...as Orcs...rush, keep it up...never let up, always expand...never relent the advantage...never stop producing troops.

Eldar...plan, stealth, execute...get where you need, when you need and you will rip apart Marines and orcs alike...but it takes suprise and rapid deployment...if they have a chance to mass, they will suffer losses, but they will win if it degenerates into a furball.

Marines...VERY tough...kep together, tool up, advance in force and with purpose...do not allow yourself to get separated, or straggle too much. Control the choke points to maximize your forces...attack from at least 2 angles if possible. Infantry should always be accompanied by Dreadnaughts or predators...sometimes both. Heavy bolters and Missle launchers...all you really need...2 of each in every squad is a good start. Terminators are for if you don't win before expanded tech is introduced...if you haven't won by then, you likely have suffered losses...build these to refresh your forces and deep strike them to cause maximum havoc.

Guard...learn to love the bunker and the fine art of the gun line. bare minimum 3 squads all with special weapons and leaders working as a single unit. Never less. More if possible. teams of 3-4 are vital as a single marine squad could easily prevail against a single guard squad or even 2. By having 3-4 squads, you increase the odds of an 'even' fight by being able to cycle out the squad in the line of fire while the other repleneshes men...maybe only a few, but hopefully enough to make the differance...in single player pray that they are understrength squads and operating alone...if in multiplayer...never advance without half your army in tow...this is not an exaggeration...it is necessary. A group of 3-4 can hold their own enough to move in some support if you are fast about it, but never enough to successfully counterattack unless they are in a bunker and being supported by some turrets or vehicles. Learn to use the underground system of moving troops...learn it and love it...in that way, your squads can be all over the map and a single group of 3 can bounce back and forth to cover a wide area while the rest of the army takes out what they need.

Necrons...Tau? Not a clue...

Chaos...see marines for the most part.

[Vazzaroth]

Green iz best, ya gitz. Da orks don't take all dat Mykrow... man-age stuffs. Ya juz' take some boyz, give 'em some more boyz till dey can't take no more, and ye gotz yerself a Waaagh!

Anyway, Yes, you have to mash the Reinforce button, and I guess "technically" that could be considered micromanagement, but usually MM is used to refer to the Eldar's style where you need to build many specialized types of units, and monitor their targets and position and make sure they are all attacking the right thing, at the right time, from the right place.

Besides "da orkz", I like Necrons. The steady, neverending slow march of death at the enemy is a daunting foe to face. And I love just working enemy squads with the Lord, when the lord is never really in any danger, with Ports and Nightbringer later on. :smallbiggrin:

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Green iz best, ya gitz. Da orks don't take all dat Mykrow... man-age stuffs. Ya juz' take some boyz, give 'em some more boyz till dey can't take no more, and ye gotz yerself a Waaagh!

Anyway, Yes, you have to mash the Reinforce button, and I guess "technically" that could be considered micromanagement, but usually MM is used to refer to the Eldar's style where you need to build many specialized types of units, and monitor their targets and position and make sure they are all attacking the right thing, at the right time, from the right place.

Besides "da orkz", I like Necrons. The steady, neverending slow march of death at the enemy is a daunting foe to face. And I love just working enemy squads with the Lord, when the lord is never really in any danger, with Ports and Nightbringer later on. :smallbiggrin:

I have heard a favored tactic is to have several under strength squads, and a few full squads...when a squad if full, it and some friends are sent to the front lines to crash into stuff while the under strength ones are secureing points and playing guard...when the front line eventually fails...the next set of boyz are sent in and reinforce on the way to the staging area while new squads are put into the que...only to rinse and repeat...vehicles are sent in clumps with an advance...done properly, it is a neverending swarm of orcs that will surely fall against any counterattack, and wipe out against any defenses...but will likely be able to kill some defenders and maybe an outpost and turret or two. As long as they concentrate their attacks well. This way, while any one atatck is pretty much doomed to fail, the constant surge will hopefully ensure that they never are able to stockpile men, and are unable to expand and get enough resources to produce any significant number of squads, or upgrades...or even good vehicles.

All while you expand so fast that you overwhelm them with the shear weight of your WAAAGH!

The sad truth...a single squad of marines with 2 heavy bolters in cover with a good line of sight will mow down a squad of orks of up to 8 men before they hit close combat...4 heavy bolters can murder a squad of 12...more than that will be able to get into combat, but will subsiquently lose without the help from an untouched ork squad to back them up. Rokit launchers are invaluable since they might be able to dislodge their heavy weapons and give you enough time to get into close combat...mortars and storm boyz are great also for getting into close combat and tying up their line while the rest rush in, or blasting the squads apart for the zerg rush.

Note that stormboyz alone will die unless 2-1 at least...3-1 to be safe...1-1 numbers are on to tie them up, but will generally only last for 5-15 seconds depending on the squad getting charged.

A fun trick...a understrength squad as a screen...they get hit with the heavy weapons first...hopefully they screen your bigger squad...the auto targeting will work in your favor...bring cannon fodder.

If it ever comes to a huge clash of armies where everyone has as much as they can possibly bring...then you are pretty much screwed...as an orc...never alow the enemy to control more than 30% of the board...nor should you leave them unmolested for more than 5-8 minutes. If you can't rush hard every 5-8, work on your starting stratagy more, and work out a plan...don't be afraid to use harasing hit and run attacks...as long as 1 orc survives...he will be a new spawn.

Have fun.

[Vazzaroth]

Oh, you Fuzzy man, dat's wot I said! You use too many wordz!

:smallwink:

But really, again. It's true we'll get chewed up by all manners of heavy bolters, but a full squad of Boyz can close into melee with regular space marines if they've been fully upgraded to be 'eavy Boyz and they've got the numbers advantage. Put on a Waaagh! battlecry buff and they're set.

Failing that, you send in your Squiggoth with full Boyz squads inside, get to the middle of their base, then fly in some Storms, Port in the Big Mek's squad, and harass the 'umies that arn't paying attention with some Shootahs from the side and you got yerself a good fight.

Also, my single favorite unit type in the whole game is Flash Gitz. Now THEY can simply mow down hordes of weak units. Flash Gitz + Imperial Guard Infantry = Me cackling.:smallbiggrin:

[Fuzzy_Juan]

best tactic against marines in my opinion...

send in raiding parties to get a decent map of their base...As son as possible, take out their HQ and rush in looking for every single servator...Early on, they are always trying to build on strategic points, or setting up power supplies...

if you can eliminate the servitors and make it too dangerous for them to wander around, you can keep the marines contained...slam that HQ and kill all servators...and even if they wipe your entire attacking force, it is usually worth it if you have defenses left. Make them unable to produce anything and you have them spanked...

in a protracted battle against a very good player, you might have to take a round about approach...they will protect their base very well and make short work out of any frontal assault...however, they usually make a fatal mistake...their power suplies are often bunched up and away from the front ...read, easy targets far away from defenders or static turrets. At most they will have one squad that just popped out waiting for orders and maybe an early built turret for token defense...jump troops in the back constantly and eliminate their power supply. Without a good power supply, they will be hard pressed to upgrade their units and field vehicles and strong leaders.

Very important plan B if attacking their front is just not feasible. Make them turtle in their base...if they can't be assaulted without HEAVY losses without even scratching them...then just don't play that game...surround their base.

Use the orks advantage of numbers...crank out squads fast and send the first teams to claim the furthest points near their base while the newer squads claim the ones close to you. Reinforce the forward most points first before working on the ones further back...if you think they will be too fast at expanding, then claim the mid points first and just try to work from there... If you can claim the furthest first, you will be able to set up a killing zone around their base and prevent any excursions to just claim territory...they will be forced to come in force, or not at all. This does 2 things...it gives you time, and makes you stronger...the more time it takes, the longer you have to build up troops and fortifications...if you have expanded enough, then your resources will outnumber thiers by 3-1 or even 4-1...harrassment will further increase your advantage if you can destroy resource production like power or their 'internal' strategic points.

Most maps have a similar design...3 points easily accessible to the base and form a decent perimeter...beyond those, points at crossroads...open, but useful as choke points, or for controlling wide areas with multiple turrets...then the central points (usually strategic and not able to have stuff on top of them). Get the ones at the far crossroads and use that as your forward staging areas...

This agresive strategy works with orks best I think because of their rapid building and zerg rush tactic, but can also be employed by marines and chaos...not sure if the Eldar or tau build fast enough to even try...the IG are too weak, and the Necrons build too slow...

Anyone expecting such a rush to occur would do well to know where the second line of points near their base are and to claim those first thing while letting the second line of troops claim the near points. Marines in particular...they are strong enough to hold those points against all commers, but only if they get there first and can establish their fireing position. Guard can try, but only if their command squad leads...and then, only on a single flank...if you play guard...play with a buddy. Orks? Liek I said...screw your second tier..get theirs...Eldar, Tau, and Crons would probably be advised to get their 2nd tier points first as well, though...due to lack of build speed, they may have to only secure one flank at a time whereas chaos and marines will go both ways.

Do note that single player varies ALOT from multiplayer...single player in DoW is all about the turtle and then the rush with overwhelming numbers in a massive assault going point by point and refreshing losses between battles. A slow and steady march with little to worry about once you secure the area within jump distance from your base.

In multiplayer...beware the 2marine with guard as a 3rd...if they are organized, you will have the guard player turtle and act as rear guard while building the baneblade and tanks...either leman russ, or lots of basalisks...beware of this...those basalisks pack a punch, and will blast your base from the other side of the map...a well organized team like this is monstrous...unless zerg rushed hardcore to eliminate one player...if they hold...oops...

[Solo]

Humm, nothing compared to Necrons. Nightbringers that resurrect in the middle of the enemy base if you get your lord there. Monoliths that take god knows how much to kill and have a wicked aoe. Yes please.

Heretic! Your misplaced faith in alien beings will be your downfall! Only in the Imperium of Man lies there salvation! Repent your deviant ways and atone for your sins before the God-Emperor, lest ye face his terrible judgement in this life or the next!


Praise the Emperor!

[Tor the Fallen]

Alright, I just gave the Orks a solid play through, and their rapid expo abilities are incredible. Decent heros, and nobs kick ass. Throw in some mad docs and a bunch of waaagh banners, and they can hold for a long time while a couple squads move around capturing stuff.

Huge builder squads for free- also very cool.

I'm still not a fan of their intense micro, though, just to replace the fallen.

Don't like chaos; they're just a weaker version of the space marines. Their melee units don't stand a chance against big ork squads or well equipped marine squads.

Haven't played eldar yet, but from what I can reckon, they seem to be machine dependent.

[LordVader]

Necrons got nerfed with the Rez Orb pop-capped and the Warriors made weaker. They're still damn good, though, especially those @#!%ing Flayed Ones and their stupid morale drain.:smallannoyed:

[Vazzaroth]

I'm still not a fan of their intense micro, though, just to replace the fallen.

I don't deny that, especially early on or when you first make some Boyz, you do have to click it alot at time, there are a few things to consider (AKA I'z gonna bring ya ta da Waaagh!)

-Orks are, with as little as 2-3 full squads, immune to moral. That means that they don't break, and get lowered defenses. I've brought 4-6 full squads into a final base assault against fairly defended (computer) players w/ turrets and all, and only ended up losing about 3-4 orks. Individuals, not squads.

-Orks don't take many heavy weapons compared to some armies. That means, when an Ork dies, you usually don't have to click for both a new Ork AND their weapon like you do for, say SMs, where over half their SM squad units have Heavy Weapons. Not to mention you may need to try to decide what to actually give them. Summary: Overall, less clickage!

-Their Leaders have good tools for lowering casualties. The Warboss' WAAAGH! power gives them good defense, I rarely lose more than, like, 1 Ork while that's going, assuming you use it at the right time when your units are bunched. The Mek's Telyporter can get them out of a losing battle,and the Tank shock... thing can lock up those nasty tanks. And of course, the Dok's fightin' juice is the most obvious. No deaths till it's over.

Anyway, Waaagh! forever. :smallbiggrin:

[The Orange Zergling]

Necrons got nerfed with the Rez Orb pop-capped and the Warriors made weaker. They're still damn good, though, especially those @#!%ing Flayed Ones and their stupid morale drain.:smallannoyed:

I play unpatched, so Necrons are still godly for me. What I usually do is send a few warriors to die right in the middle of the enemy base, queue up 5 flayed ones squads, teleport the Lord right into the heap of necron corpses, pop rez orb, and deep strike flayed ones. :smallamused:

Of course, in your version this isn't possible... but still.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Honestly though...has anyone found a strategy to deal with an entire space marine army on a slow well coordinated approach? I haven't...not short of a massive counterattack with tanks that blast them into the air.

If marines deploy and move in a slow steady leapfrog advance where weapons are always ready...there really is little one can do...especially if there are infiltrated scouts just ahead of the formation so that they see you comming and are shooting from beyond the fog.

No amount of ambush, strategic placement, static defense, an entire massed army even can stop an entire space marine army on the move in this game it seems...if allowed to tool and waltz in, they will murder everything...

The closest I have seen to the contrary is a baneblade or squiggoth tossing around the army for a bit...the Land raider is cool and all, but does not compare to the squiggoth and the baneblade...and quite frankly...the squiggoth is no match for a baneblade either...I say this because the baneblade can kill a squiggoth, several looted leman russ, and several mobs of orks at the same time and live.

So...really...short of multiple heavy vehicles...is there really any reliable way to stop a massed SM attack? Not sure if Necrons have an easier time, but the rest just seem screwed if the Marines are tooled for a party.

Usually goes like this...scouts advance to scope out the outer base and find the good attack points...3 squads of assault troops advance and jump into base and draw attention away from the front defenses on a suicide run...2 squads of terminators are places into build while the battle takes place...marines take up positions usually in two groups supported by dreadnaughts with predators in a separate tank group...whirlwinds may be mixed in, but maybe not. When the assault marines are gone...all heavy weapons are brought forward to start fireing on defenses outside of their range to fire back...missles and las cannons do this...usually 2-3 things can be destroyed in this manner...the opponent can either allow the slow march, or try and take the fight to the marines...this results in mixing it up with the dreadnaughts and having to leave their defenses to engague the marines usually who have staked reserve troops in cover and are fully prepared for counterattack...or sit back while the steady advance destroys everythign without taking significant return fire...at some point, the Terminators are ready and they deep strike behind the base, or in it and begin to murder everything in sight...smart money would also build a few dreadnaughts to pop into the que and deep strike as some get destroyed.

No other race, except maybe the necrons, or the IG can field an army in such a way that on the advance they will destroy all opposition. (note, the IG are only included because of their tanks...as I have used a tank company sans baneblade to eradicate an entire map without significant damage...they were accompanied by 3 squads of guard to keep troublesome infantry from assaulting the tanks with meltabombs.)

The other races depend greatly on timing, rushing, and proper troop management rather than just setup and slowly grind away. What are your thoughts?

[Xefas]

I'm still not a fan of their intense micro, though, just to replace the fallen.

Erm, I think you can just right click the reinforce button and it auto-replaces the dead without you having to do anything.

Also works on buildings so they auto-spawn a squad of your choosing continuously.

Anyways, in my opinion, Necron are definitly the most overpowered in campaign mode, where the computers can't use any sort of strategy against you, because Necrons are downright better in straightforward combat than everybody else.

However, they're also built to not make use of much strategy, themselves, which is their downfall against another person. They aren't effected by cover, so you can't put them in a mechanically advantageous position, and all the infantry are godawful slow, so it's nearly impossible to outmaneuver your enemy.

The strategy I use most often against Necron players online, if it's a large map, like Deadman's Crossing or a multiplayer map, is to play as Chaos, tech up as fast as possible (Heretics' forced labor ability is fantastic for this), not worrying about defenses since Necrons move so slow, until I get Possessed Marines. I then run them directly to the enemy base. Any necron infantry on the field are too slow to respond, since the Possessed Marines are amazingly fast, and their vehicles (if the player bothers to build any) are largely ineffective against them. I then destroy all their Power Plants, and then bolt out of there as fast as possible. If it's been long enough, the Necrons will have their "teleport infantry to base" ability, which leaves them the choice of either withdrawing their troops to defend, and having to walk them all the way back up the map to attack, or to leave their base vulnerable.

If it's the first case, I've got nothing to worry about. I have all the time in the world. I'll have 2 predators, a daemon prince and more marines than you can shake a grot at before the Necrons even get to me again if all goes according to plan. If it's the second case, I build up the best turtle defense I can muster (Chaos Marine squads with full heavy bolters in heavy cover ftw), and continue to break their Power Plants and any Scarabs directly in the way. If I weather their initial attack, they have no power, and I take them at my leisure, making sure they never get any more Plants built. If I don't...well, it doesn't happen often, but if so, it's an utterly humiliating defeat for me.

Space Marines...well, if it's on a small map, Chaos gets them easy, considering the Heretic ability lets you hit T2 while they're still in early T1, but if it's on a medium or large map, I've not really ever had success against them if the other player is experienced at all.

But that's just my perspective, which is entirely chaos-oriented.

Now, if only we could get Daemonettes...

[Tor the Fallen]

10 squads off SM with rockets pretty much kill everything. The only way I think you can really stop that is by sending in something huge (like a demon or squiggoth), and then taking them down with anti-infantry armor. But if you have end-game demons, they have terminators, which will shred.
Sooo... yeah, I don't really know how to stop a steady SM pull.

[Oeep Snaec]

To anyone who claims the Eldar stink, they are most definitely wrong. If you build quickly, you can get a massive army that will wipe out your opponents. My friend in 15 min. made an army of walkers and heavy infantry, and had an avatar in probably less than 30. It took another friend and I some 40 turrets, maxed vehicle caps and loads of anti-tank infantry to finally slow him down.

[warty goblin]

10 squads off SM with rockets pretty much kill everything. The only way I think you can really stop that is by sending in something huge (like a demon or squiggoth), and then taking them down with anti-infantry armor. But if you have end-game demons, they have terminators, which will shred.
Sooo... yeah, I don't really know how to stop a steady SM pull.

Unless you can tie them up in melee. Kroot with firewarrior support would be brutal here...Howling Banshees would also sucks, since they get up so fast from knockdowns that the rockets wouldn't do much to them, and then they are in serious trouble. The definately do dominate vehicles though, I just don't think that devoting your entire squad pop to one unit particularly wise.

[Eldpollard]

The annoying thing with Necrons is how easily you can break the squad cap on them. Send a lord with a res orb it to a pile of bodies when your cap's at full and you can get many more squads. Same with tomb spyders.

[LordVader]

Which is why Patch 1.2 capped their max population at 24.:smallwink:

[Xefas]

Which is why Patch 1.2 capped their max population at 24.:smallwink:

Funny thing, that. Last time I checked, Tomb Spyders are capable of circumventing the squad cap via their harvesting => squad spawning abilities.

I don't play Necrons very often anymore, being a Chaos man, but I think that still works, even if the Rez Orb doesn't. Might be worth looking into.

[Somebloke]

I've played the Tau quite a lot, and I've found that- especially since the DC caps the number of turrents you can use- make very useful mobile defence with a couple of those Mech rail gun squads, some Fire Warrior fire teams and perhaps some Kroot to tie up opponents that get too close.

[LordVader]

Funny thing, that. Last time I checked, Tomb Spyders are capable of circumventing the squad cap via their harvesting => squad spawning abilities.

I don't play Necrons very often anymore, being a Chaos man, but I think that still works, even if the Rez Orb doesn't. Might be worth looking into.

I thought I remembered from pre-1.2 that the Tomb Spyders couldn't raise a squad if pop cap was full. Hmmm.:smallconfused:

[Vazzaroth]

I thought I remembered from pre-1.2 that the Tomb Spyders couldn't raise a squad if pop cap was full. Hmmm.:smallconfused:

They CAN pass the cap. I jsut can't remember how much.

I distinctly remember sending in, like, 10 Flayed one squads, that's about 30 cap.

Probably more like 7 squads and a lord. With Vehicles as cavalry/second wave.

[Somebloke]

That's...just plain nasty. Against what?