Paladin Oath of Conquest Help

[Frywick]

Hello all,

I have this idea for a character that I would like to run for Into Avernus when it comes out, however I am having difficulty coming to a final decision. I want to play a young paladin (around 17 or 16) who's family were devout servants of Asmodeus. After events that left the family scattered or dead, he was left with the adventuring party at young age. With them he decided to dedicate himself to serving Helm to protect people in the same way he was protected. I'd like for him to be somewhat youngish in his interactions: wanting to see the good in people, very polite, etc.

My main problem is that I really like the Conquest Oath, especially given that members of this Oath serve as Hell Knights on Avernus as it stands. However, I am finding it hard to find a way that it would fit his character to follow the Conquest Oath. This seems difficult in the sense that I don't want to run him particularly evil, or especially strict on the party’s actions. I intend on him being dedicated to his ideals and goals, but not in a way that shows itself as mean. This seems to go against the core of the Conquest Oath however, which uses fear effects and is centered on the control of others to ensure that laws are followed. I had the thought of theming it in the way that his viewpoint is one of deterrence, that by using fear people could be prevented from doing bad things instead of outright killing them. Perhaps a somewhat reversed Redemption Paladin. Like I said, I am unsure if this Oath works for the character.

Insight into this would be appreciated, either in the realm of suggestions for how to make Oath of Conquest work for this or for other Oath recommendations.

Thanks

[Man_Over_Game]

That's one option. I did a thread about making good Conquest Paladins a while back, trying to get ideas.

The ones that stood out were:


Your powers are designed to convert evil. You afflict evil, only to show it how terrible it truly is.
Your powers are a punishment. You don't want to afflict fear, but it's the tool that you have.
You use your powers as a last-ditch effort in order to convince people to stop their evil ways. Frightening them into submission is better than killing them.


You could say that there is a bond that forces you into acting in ways that fit the cause of the Hell Knights, even if he doesn't inherently believe in them. The powers came with it. You were so rebellious that they stole your free will, forced you into acting as a Hell Knight, in an attempt to get you to accept your destiny.

You obey the Oaths because you HAVE to, not because you believe in them. The whole "Oath of Conquest" thing is a prison. Over time, though, you learn how to do good with the powers of darkness, and how the tenets of Conquest can make the world a better place.

-OR-

In case you happen to defy the Oath of Conquest so vehemently later on in your quest, you can consider talking with your DM about how he'd rule changing Tenets or changing Paladin Oaths. Defying your heritage and destiny for the sake of Good and Light is damn perfect for a Devotion Paladin.

[Cikomyr]

I really like your backstory and would support any player who create one like it.

You choice of Oath, however, doesn't seem to jive exactly the way you say you want to play your character. I agree it's hard to see how you can spin an Oath of Conquest into a good guy defender of the little people.

What's your reason for wanting Oath of Conquest, exactly? I am a bit unclear on your motivations.

However, based on your description, I have 2 Oath recommendation. One is kind of vanilla, the other is certainly a bit out of the expected bounds.

Vanilla: Oath of Vengeance. Being the enforcer of divine retribution for the wicked seems perfectly in line with Helm, god of Protectors, whom you want to thematically join up with.

Less Vanilla: Oath of Treachery. There are no obligations to be a bad guy with this oath, it's just a natural oath to take while being a bad guy. However, if you basically turned your back on your family and undermined them from inside form your own agenda (that happens to be benevolent), I don't see why you couldn't be a Paladin of Treachery.

[Constructman]

Helm and the Oath of Conquest seems like a mismatch. However, if you're determined to stick with it:

Make him an "if you want something done right, do it yourself" kind of guy, and if you're in the mood for it being a bane rather than a boon, make that his greatest flaw. He wants to see the good in people but is plagued with trust issues. He can't trust people to be good. He can't trust people to do things correctly. So he has to do it himself, he has to fix their mistakes, he has to show them how to do things whether they like it or not. Of course, this will get annoying OOC if overdone, so IC, maybe the party's the only people he feels comfortable trusting and being more hands-off with. But if that trust is broken? Well, there's a reason why they're called Hellknights...

Of the three tenets of Conquest, Strength Above All would be the one to emphasize and the easiest one to put a benign spin on. Your Paladin would always be seeking to improve himself, to get better and better, to practice practice practice. But he also wouldn't be a sore loser; he'll know when he's been beat and accept that defeat, and then turn around and redouble his efforts to improve.

[WampDiesel]

As someone who just started playing an Oath of Conquest Paladin, I would like to add my perspective. I think the default leaning of a Conquest Paladin is Lawful Neutral but if they are unfair in how they mete out their form of justice they can easily become evil. I think Conquest Paladins are one of the few paladins that don't believe in the inherent good in people. They believe the vast majority people will take the easiest path presented to them and it is the duty of the Conquest Paladin to make the path of law and order the best option and not let folk easily slide into crime or evil. In doing so they save people from the worst versions of themselves, making them afraid of any wrongdoing because they are afraid of YOU. From comics Judge Dredd and Batman both follow this tenet, making criminals afraid of their legend, going in and punishing hard those who would dare cause lawlessness in the territory they have claimed as their own.
So I do think that "seeing the good in people" is slightly at odds with a conquest paladin's desire to bring the land under just and fair rule by might and by right.

But that doesn't necessarily spell doom for your character being a Conquest Paladin because luckily its just my opinion. Conquest Paladins are kinda like cops in a way, the fear of incarceration keeps the common folk in line. Now there are plenty of bad cops out there, that use their position of authority to strike fear in random citizens and terrorize the populace for their own benefit. However there are also a lot of good cops out there, who are a part of their communities and want to create a lawful society where good people can thrive. Criminals are just as afraid of either type, because they are cops and perhaps the good cops moreso because they can't be bribed or influenced. I think you could very easily play it so that good folk have nothing to fear and that only wrongdoers need be afraid (especially since you can choose the targets of your channel divinity). This would flow well with your backstory and wouldn't cause any friction between class and character.

Hope you have fun with the character. I have already used the channel divinity to stop a speeding carriage by making the horses afraid of me. Just stood in the middle of the road and gandalfed them. Was quite sweet.

[Crushgrip]

Great suggestions and I love the backstory. I would also agree that as written, there are some problems with the Oath of Conquest and your character concept. I would look at MOG's suggestions and possibly talking to your DM into re-writing the Tenets for your character but keeping the abilities. I have done a similar thing with a Dwarf Paladin that wanted to take the Oath of Devotion but catered towards Dwarves.

Below is the example for you:

https://i.imgur.com/thkZkYJh.jpg

Maybe change the verbiage of some of the abilities to be more in-line with a "good" persona as opposed to an "oppressive/terrifying" persona descriptors. For example, with Conquering Presence, make "exude a terrifying presence" to "exude a holy/divine presence for non-believers".

Have fun and good luck!