Is there an official ruling saying what is metallic armor?

[ZorroGames]

Starting a Druid MD in Hide plus considering going MC (Druid one path of several) with a VHuman Ranger and the question comes up - is there anywhere for AL where metallic armor is clearly defined?

Studded is made from leather mainly but reinforced with metal pieces. Is this outside the Druid’s purview?

This is AL gaming so non-AL opinions and rulings from home brew are irrelevant. I know what I understand from reading but any official AL guidance that I have missed would be appreciated before I proceed further. Have not heard back from our AL organizer ( that dreaded real life pesky thing ) as of this time.

[stoutstien]

Raw, the metal armor restriction on druids is pure fluff. Wear what you want

[darknite]

Yes. It's whatever your DM and you agree on.

[GlenSmash!]

Studded leather could have studs or spikes according to its description. Studs would probably be metal but spikes could be bone.

Anyway, the answer is very much "up to the DM" even in AL I think.

[LibraryOgre]

My personal ruling:

Non-metal by default: Padded, Leather, Hide. It would be a very weird set of circumstances where any of these qualify as metal (perhaps aurumvorax hide?)

Constructable as non-metal upon request (i.e. You can use this, but might have a harder time replacing it, and magical versions do not necessarily apply): Studded Leather, Scale Mail, Breast Plate.

Metal except in odd circumstances: Chain shirt, half plate, ring mail, chain mail, splint, plate

So, your druid can start with Breastplate armor, and it will be a breastplate made of thick, cuirbolli, hide, with leg and armor protection made of more flexible stuff. But if you find Breastplate armor in the Hall of the Dwarven Metalsmiths? Chances are it's not going to qualify.... but the Leather Armor from there almost definitely will.

[Man_Over_Game]

In Adventure League, the only Optional things allowed are:

Variant: Customizing Ability Scores (PHB)
Variant Human Traits (PHB)
Half-Elf Variants (SCAG)
Option: Human Languages (SCAG)
Tiefling Variants (SCAG)
Variant: Playing on a Grid (PBR)
Variant: Skills with Different Abilities (PHB)


That is to say, if it's not on that list, it's not optional. At all. Note that the requirement for Druids to wear/not wear metal armor is not on that list. If Druids are legal to ignore the metal armor requirement, then it wouldn't have it said on their class page that they won't. If it wasn't relevant, it wouldn't be on the Druid page, and if it was optional, it'd be on the list of optional rules for Adventure League.
So it's both relevant and not optional.
AL requires Druids to not wear metal armor. What happens beyond that is pretty much up to the AL DM. I don't agree with it (I don't think there's anything wrong with Druids wearing metal, as long as it fits the narrative), but thems the rules.


As for the OP's specific question, I couldn't find much of any reference. There is this, though:
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/119053/can-a-breastplate-be-crafted-with-non-metal-materials-in-adventurers-league/119054#119054

There are a number of semi-magical armors you can find that are made of special materials that don't include metal. Like a crystal breastplate, for instance.

[sophontteks]

Raw, the metal armor restriction on druids is pure fluff. Wear what you want
No, RAW (Rules as Written) says druids will not wear metal armor. Your interpetation is that this is fluff.

[SirGraystone]

With AL an only armor from the official rulebooks you are probably stuck with Hide armor. but outside AL I don't see why a breastplate couldn't be made from chitin, a scale armor from dragon skin, or similar thing. I think it was in Prince of the Apocalypse some earth guard had armor made of stone instead of metal.

[Keravath]

Usually studded leather would be considered non-metallic by most DMs even in AL and thus fine for a druid.

In AL however, unless you find an item in a module, all of the armor is made out if the standard materials in the PHB so that the rest of the heavier armor except hide is considered metallic and could not be worn by an AL Druid. Most AL DMs I have met would enforce that.

However, it is a more “gray” area when you add multiclassing and this would be entirely up to the DM. For example, a cleric can wear metallic medium armor and a shield .. a Druid can not, but the multiclassing rules state that a cleric gains proficiency with medium armor of all sorts, so it isn’t clear that a constraint on armor material faced by a Druid would necessarily apply to a cleric/Druid multiclass as an example in AL. In this case, an AL DM could choose to allow metallic medium armor for a multi-class cleric/Druid because it was granted as part of being a cleric.

However, the ruling could go any way depending on the DM so you might want to carry studded leather in your bag of holding just in case. :)

PS there are several AL modules with medium armor made from
Exotic materials that could be worn by a Druid. Stone for sure .. I think possibly chitin and some other examples .. I think you can google it.

[stoutstien]

No, RAW (Rules as Written) says druids will not wear metal armor. Your interpetation is that this is fluff.
Where the druid will not wear metal it says 'will'. Will is suggesting a choice not 'cannot' or an anyway stating it has any mechanical impact.

Official response
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

In short, as always ask your DM

@MoG we usually agree but i think your logic is flawed in using the list of variant rules allowed in AL as a yard stick. AL is more standardized but DM ruling is still the final say.

[Damon_Tor]

No, RAW (Rules as Written) says druids will not wear metal armor. Your interpetation is that this is fluff.

It's as binding as the rule saying you can't teach non-druids Druidic: there may be roleplay penalties, but the armor doesn't burst into flames nor do your druid features stop working.

[ZorroGames]

What I am reading, especially in the Sage Advice link, is that:


1) my MD Druid can progress to Hide (definitely) or studded (probably will when appropriate) without breaking verisimilitude. He sees himself in story terms more as a “vengeful shepherd/rancher whose flocks and herds were destroyed” than a Shepherd Druid. “I just can understand animals better than people,” is his mantra.

2) My VHuman Ranger from Chult in Studded (sold her scale when her Dex became 18) can keep her studded and MC into Druid if that is the path she chooses without conflicting with her classes. “All the ‘gods’ - Ubtao, the tricksters, the others - just use sentient creatures for their own ends, all of them. Nature is cruel but honest.”

Exotic Armor is something I will consider if I ever encounter it.

Muchas Gracias.

[diplomancer]

It's as binding as the rule saying you can't teach non-druids Druidic: there may be roleplay penalties, but the armor doesn't burst into flames nor do your druid features stop working.

A DM is perfectly free, without any houseruling, to say your druid features stop working.

Opening post wants to know about AL. Please do not advice him on a build that will not be AL legal.

Answering the OP, the Armor descriptions tell what material they are usually made of. The ones in the PHB that do not mention metal among its materials are Padded,Leather, Studded Leather, Hide, and Ring Mail. Spiked Mail, in SCAG, says its spikes are "usually made of metal" so there might be some leeway there. You may find armor made from unusual materials in many AL modules.

[Willie the Duck]

Usually studded leather would be considered non-metallic by most DMs even in AL and thus fine for a druid.

I would not think that would be the case. I just checked, and studded leather mentions 'rivets or spikes,' so I agree there are conceptual options that would be non-metallic, but I doubt that's the natural DM assumption. We've all by now heard how studded leather isn't a real historic thing (or rather, it is a misinterpretation of another thing), so it is really an open playing field. However, there is a (fantasy) conceptual model that's been made since ~1977 (unless there was a pre-AD&D armor article in Dragon that included studded) that has defined what the armor is (ahistoric as it is), and that has metal studs.

Which is a roundabout way of saying I'm guessing most DMs think of AD&D-style studded leather when they think of 5e studded leather.


Where the druid will not wear metal it says 'will'. Will is suggesting a choice not 'cannot' or an anyway stating it has any mechanical impact.

It's as binding as the rule saying you can't teach non-druids Druidic: there may be roleplay penalties, but the armor doesn't burst into flames nor do your druid features stop working.

So we're right back where we were with the discussion when not specifying Adventure League? Great. No resolution possible. We'll argue 'til we're blue in the face over the term 'will' and still be back here in our ossified positions. Rather than come down on one side or another, I'll just state the position that it was a poor decision on WotC's part to make RP decisions for a class (with no declared consequences for violating such) for this one class feature only. There were so many better options -- including straight up giving the base druid proficiency in nonmetal armors only (take a feat or MC? problem solved. DM introduces other non-metal armors? Still proficient, so problem solved.).

[Man_Over_Game]

A DM is perfectly free, without any houseruling, to say your druid features stop working.

Opening post wants to know about AL. Please do not advice him on a build that will not be AL legal.

Answering the OP, the Armor descriptions tell what material they are usually made of. You may find armor made from unusual materials in many AL modules.

Hell, ignore whatever your opinion is on whether Metal should/shouldn't/is/isn't legal in AL. That's not what the OP is asking.

The OP is asking for what armors likely don't include metal. Let's just assume that his DM is a real stickler and makes it so that he's considered wearing armor he isn't proficient in when doing so (which is really bad in 5e). Our disputes and in-fighting shouldn't get in the way of helping people.

[hymer]

This is AL gaming so non-AL opinions and rulings from home brew are irrelevant. I know what I understand from reading but any official AL guidance that I have missed would be appreciated before I proceed further. Have not heard back from our AL organizer ( that dreaded real life pesky thing ) as of this time.

The official ruling already linked to (A druid typically wears leather, studded leather, or hide armor, and if a druid comes across scale mail made of a material other than metal, the druid might wear it.) above includes this pertinent sentence:

A druid typically wears leather, studded leather, or hide armor, and if a druid comes across scale mail made of a material other than metal, the druid might wear it.
In other words, there is a little guidance. But it does not set anything sufficiently in stone that an AL DM could not rule otherwise on a particular suit of studded leather.

Edit: Oh, and the PHB description of studded leather does not mention metal. Those studs can be made of something else if the DM is going to extremes and wants to disallow wearing a belt with a metal buckle, say.

[diplomancer]

Hell, ignore whatever your opinion is on whether Metal should/shouldn't/is/isn't legal in AL. That's not what the OP is asking.

The OP is asking for what armors likely don't include metal. Let's just assume that his DM is a real stickler and makes it so that he's considered wearing armor he isn't proficient in when doing so (which is really bad in 5e). Our disputes and in-fighting shouldn't get in the way of helping people.

You accuse me of not doing exactly what I did (answering the OP), but keep silent at those who not only did not answer the opening post, but decided, before me, to re-start the discussion, at risk of misleading the opening post. Your criticism is misdirected, take it up with them.

[Man_Over_Game]

You accuse me of not doing exactly what I did (answering the OP), but keep silent at those who not only did not answer the opening post, but decided, before me, to re-start the discussion, at risk of misleading the opening post. Your criticism is misdirected, take it up with them.

Sorry, it wasn't at you directly at all. I meant it as support towards your statement.

[darknite]

AL has had several non-metalic medium armors available in play - a mushroom half plate of poison resistance, Dragonscale armor, etc.

[ZorroGames]

What I am reading, especially in the Sage Advice link, is that:


1) my MD Druid can progress to Hide (definitely) or studded (probably will when appropriate) without breaking verisimilitude. He sees himself in story terms more as a “vengeful shepherd/rancher whose flocks and herds were destroyed” than a Shepherd Druid. “I just can understand animals better than people,” is his mantra.

2) My VHuman Ranger from Chult in Studded (sold her scale when her Dex became 18) can keep her studded and MC into Druid if that is the path she chooses without conflicting with her classes. “All the ‘gods’ - Ubtao, the tricksters, the others - just use sentient creatures for their own ends, all of them. Nature is cruel but honest.”

Exotic Armor is something I will consider if I ever encounter it.

Muchas Gracias.

This was my answer to show that I was sufficiently happy with the AL discussion part of everyone’s answers.

Now, this has derailed into a non-AL discussion I did not intend to start so I am letting go of this thread. Be nice to each other in your disagreements is my only request.

And, FWIW, :smallbiggrin: the ‘stickler DM’ in our AL games is usually me. I used my PCs in AL as examples because those are the ones that raised the question in my mind and then in discussion among our AL DM group.

I have come away with Druids are legally proficient in Padded, Leather, Hide, Studded and ‘exotic’ armors that are not metal based or Heavy (Ringmail no because it is neither light or medium.)

I appreciate the assistance given.

[BloodOgre]

Where the druid will not wear metal it says 'will'. Will is suggesting a choice not 'cannot' or an anyway stating it has any mechanical impact.

Official response
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

In short, as always ask your DM

@MoG we usually agree but i think your logic is flawed in using the list of variant rules allowed in AL as a yard stick. AL is more standardized but DM ruling is still the final say.

Will not only suggest a choice, but what a Druids choice will be. A Druid will choose non-metal. If he/she chooses metal, he/she isn't a druid. The example in the link above suggests that a vegetarian can eat meat, but they choose not to. Not eating meat is what makes them a vegetarian. Likewise, one of the things that makes a druid a druid is the choice not to wear metal. It is not just that the metal represents civilization. It is what harvesting the metal from the ground does to the environment that is insulting to the druid. Out of the mines comes not only the sought-after metal, but rock and other minerals that have to go somewhere. And not all of that refuse is friendly to the environment. For example, arsenic waste from Britain's tin mines would run off into the ocean and turn the sea red and destroy local sea life.

Druids draw their power not from a deity, but from the earth and nature. And Earth and nature will not grant those powers to those who are willing to embrace the poisoning of the land and sea for the sake of some bits of metal.

Within the confines of AL, it seems to me the rules are pretty clear. Druid's don't wear metal armor, yes, it's by choice, but it is one of the fundamental things that makes them a Druid. And if they choose to wear metal, they aren't a druid. If a vegetarian eats meat, by choice, are they still a vegetarian? Ask a vegetarian and see what they think. (I have yet to meat a vegetarian that will say "yes".)

[darknite]

Man, are we going over the whole 'will not wear metal armor' crap, again? It's NOT fluff because it's written into the armor proficiency section of druid class features. That makes it a rule. Not that such rules can't be bent without player and DM agreement in a home game. However it's ironclad (see what I did there?) for AL.

[Chronos]

Even hide armor is likely to have buckles to hold it on, and those buckles are likely to be metal. So the question isn't "can the armor have any metallic components at all"; it's "how much metal components can it have and still be considered, overall, non-metallic".

[Man_Over_Game]

You could break each armor into one of several tiers of how likely a DM is going to say it's not metal.

For example:

Guaranteed: Padded
Likely: Shield, Hide.
Plausible: Studded
Unlikely: Scale
Impossible: Plate, Breastplate, Chain

[darknite]

You could break each armor into one of several tiers of how likely a DM is going to say it's not metal.

For example:

Guaranteed: Padded
Likely: Shield, Hide.
Plausible: Studded
Unlikely: Scale
Impossible: Plate, Breastplate, Chain


Hey, that's cool!

[Imbalance]

It's safer in this day and age to let the character "self-identify" as druid if they wish. I'm reminded of a commercial from a few years back, don't remember which restaurant, where the spokesman claimed to be a strict vegetarian. "I don't eat any meat, except fish. And chicken. And beef." <beat> "I'm semi-veg."

The bigger problem is the lack of official alternatives to metal. I can think of half a dozen other fantasy fictions that have full plate comprised of stuff like grown crystal, ironwood bark, chitin, resin, volcanic glass, bone, etc. that wouldn't violate the metal mandate. D&D, which likely inspired those settings, is oddly backwards and unimaginative in this regard.

[stoutstien]

Will not only suggest a choice, but what a Druids choice will be. A Druid will choose non-metal. If he/she chooses metal, he/she isn't a druid. The example in the link above suggests that a vegetarian can eat meat, but they choose not to. Not eating meat is what makes them a vegetarian. Likewise, one of the things that makes a druid a druid is the choice not to wear metal. It is not just that the metal represents civilization. It is what harvesting the metal from the ground does to the environment that is insulting to the druid. Out of the mines comes not only the sought-after metal, but rock and other minerals that have to go somewhere. And not all of that refuse is friendly to the environment. For example, arsenic waste from Britain's tin mines would run off into the ocean and turn the sea red and destroy local sea life.

Druids draw their power not from a deity, but from the earth and nature. And Earth and nature will not grant those powers to those who are willing to embrace the poisoning of the land and sea for the sake of some bits of metal.

Within the confines of AL, it seems to me the rules are pretty clear. Druid's don't wear metal armor, yes, it's by choice, but it is one of the fundamental things that makes them a Druid. And if they choose to wear metal, they aren't a druid. If a vegetarian eats meat, by choice, are they still a vegetarian? Ask a vegetarian and see what they think. (I have yet to meat a vegetarian that will say "yes".)

Rule-if a caster wears armor they don't have Prof in then they cast spell among other things.
Rule- if you don't meet the strength requirements of armor your speed is reduced by 10 feet.
NOT a rule - druids will only wear non metal armor. It's not a rule because there are literally no mechanical side effects. Picking up a metal shield doesn't DO anything.


Unlike Scott pilgrims vs the world a vegetarian can eat a burger every day and the vegan police won't show up to arrest you and unless your DM homebrews druid equipment inspectors the same holds true.

[Willie the Duck]

Rule-if a caster wears armor they don't have Prof in then they cast spell among other things.
Rule- if you don't meet the strength requirements of armor your speed is reduced by 10 feet.
NOT a rule - druids will only wear non metal armor. It's not a rule because there are literally no mechanical side effects. Picking up a metal shield doesn't DO anything.


Unlike Scott pilgrims vs the world a vegetarian can eat a burger every day and the vegan police won't show up to arrest you and unless your DM homebrews druid equipment inspectors the same holds true.

I'm all for saying that it is not exactly clear...and in fact, uses a mechanism of 'telling you what your character (of whose decisions you otherwise have control) will choose to do' that is otherwise not found in the ruleset). However, I'm not seeing the logic behind there being no listed mechanical consequences being the point where something is or isn't a rule. One doesn't seem to follow from the other.

[darknite]

It's safer in this day and age to let the character "self-identify" as druid if they wish. I'm reminded of a commercial from a few years back, don't remember which restaurant, where the spokesman claimed to be a strict vegetarian. "I don't eat any meat, except fish. And chicken. And beef." <beat> "I'm semi-veg."

The bigger problem is the lack of official alternatives to metal. I can think of half a dozen other fantasy fictions that have full plate comprised of stuff like grown crystal, ironwood bark, chitin, resin, volcanic glass, bone, etc. that wouldn't violate the metal mandate. D&D, which likely inspired those settings, is oddly backwards and unimaginative in this regard.

While they're at it can they just make all their stats 20 and be proficient in all saves because they envision their characters as being all powerful? As for alternatives, are they needed? If so, there are ways to get them in AL (as I stated above).

[darknite]

Rule-if a caster wears armor they don't have Prof in then they cast spell among other things.
Rule- if you don't meet the strength requirements of armor your speed is reduced by 10 feet.
NOT a rule - druids will only wear non metal armor. It's not a rule because there are literally no mechanical side effects. Picking up a metal shield doesn't DO anything. ...

There are plenty of rules that don't have a noncompliance element. Bladesingers have to be an elf or half elf. There's no mechanical side effect in place if a Human chooses to play a Bladesinger wizard subclass. It just states that you need to be a elf or half elf. In some games the DM might allow Humans to be Bladesingers, too. Just as it states in the prereqs for Bladesinging require the PC to be an elf/half elf, in the armor proficiency section of druid class features it states they will not wear armor or use shields made of metal. That's a rule.

[HolyDraconus]

Will not only suggest a choice, but what a Druids choice will be. A Druid will choose non-metal. If he/she chooses metal, he/she isn't a druid. The example in the link above suggests that a vegetarian can eat meat, but they choose not to. Not eating meat is what makes them a vegetarian. Likewise, one of the things that makes a druid a druid is the choice not to wear metal. It is not just that the metal represents civilization. It is what harvesting the metal from the ground does to the environment that is insulting to the druid. Out of the mines comes not only the sought-after metal, but rock and other minerals that have to go somewhere. And not all of that refuse is friendly to the environment. For example, arsenic waste from Britain's tin mines would run off into the ocean and turn the sea red and destroy local sea life.

Druids draw their power not from a deity, but from the earth and nature. And Earth and nature will not grant those powers to those who are willing to embrace the poisoning of the land and sea for the sake of some bits of metal.

Within the confines of AL, it seems to me the rules are pretty clear. Druid's don't wear metal armor, yes, it's by choice, but it is one of the fundamental things that makes them a Druid. And if they choose to wear metal, they aren't a druid. If a vegetarian eats meat, by choice, are they still a vegetarian? Ask a vegetarian and see what they think. (I have yet to meat a vegetarian that will say "yes".)

Please link page number in dmg or phb showing this. The closest I can think of this is 3e. While you're at it, please link page number to consequences for breaking this. Again, I can recall 3e having it (as well as for the cleric and paladin) but this edition is more......tame.... when it comes to such things. Oathbreaker is just about the only thing I can think of but I have to be wrong, right?

[Theodoxus]

In AL, a DM can hand out whatever mundane item they want, with the caveat that the it disappears with no monetary compensation to the character, at the end of the session.

A kind DM could let a druid find a dragonscale breastplate at the start of the session that wasn't in the module, allowing the druid to benefit from the increased AC for the session, and at the end, it just 'poof's out of existence.

Of course, with the materiality changes from season 8, it's generally not needed - Studded is typically superior to hide; it's better if you have a 16+ Dex, is a lot easier to find/purchase magic versions of and is 100% AL legal.

In my experience, the only time metal even comes up, is in regards to the druid obtaining heavy armor proficiency. And then it's a whole can of worms - even in AL (though again, with a kind DM, "granting" dragonscale plate for the session isn't unheard of).

[Imbalance]

While they're at it can they just make all their stats 20 and be proficient in all saves because they envision their characters as being all powerful?

The answer to this may depend on how you feel about characters making their own lifestyle choices. Tongue-in-cheek aside, this would be mechanically egregious, but armor selection, on the other hand, isn't breaking the class in any way, and is in fact not prohibited by the rule, as long as the selection is non-metallic.


As for alternatives, are they needed? If so, there are ways to get them in AL (as I stated above).

As often as this discussion comes up, yes, I'd say there should be more options, at least for RP purposes. Even if all the base materials arrive at the same AC, what would it hurt? Clearly nothing, if even one non-metal option already exists.

[darknite]

Although there is no 'consequence' built into the metal armor prohibition for druids, there is an AL consequence.

ALPG (p.2)
Your 1st-level character is created using any race and class options in the Player’s Handbook plus one other resource from those listed below (the “PHB+1” rule).

ALDMG (p.2)
You may review paperwork (character sheets, adventure logsheets, and certificates) at any time. If something is amiss—either with the paperwork or during the game—discuss it with the player and resolve irregularities. You may disallow something that seems outside the rules...

A character is created using the race and class options as allowed in AL. The DM may review characters and disallow things that seem outside the rules (their ruling).

[darknite]

The answer to this may depend on how you feel about characters making their own lifestyle choices. Tongue-in-cheek aside, this would be mechanically egregious, but armor selection, on the other hand, isn't breaking the class in any way, and is in fact not prohibited by the rule, as long as the selection is non-metallic.

As often as this discussion comes up, yes, I'd say there should be more options, at least for RP purposes. Even if all the base materials arrive at the same AC, what would it hurt? Clearly nothing, if even one non-metal option already exists.

As a DM I can allow a player to obtain items as specified in the ALPG. The PHB is the primary source of mundane items. Each type of medium armor in the PHB, other than Hide, is defined as having significant metal composition. My perspective is that the proficiency exception for armor allows the Druid to access rudimentary medium armors and also use magical, non-metal type advanced medium armors if they are obtained in play (via item unlocks, etc).

Now I want to run a fun game and I like to be permissive if it means we can all have a good time. But I also have to consider that characters in AL go beyond my table. I want to make sure that character portability is intact so my players can have just as good a time with their PCs at another table as they do at mine.

[OverLordOcelot]

The AL Admins have clarified on facebook that any armor is made of what it's described as being made of in the source where it's listed. Unfortunately, AFAIK they haven't ever put it into a referenceable document. The non magical AL armors that count as non-metal are: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Hide, Spiked, and Ring mail. (Yes, you can buy spiked armor in AL, as you can buy mundane equipment from the PHB or any source that can be a +1).

[sophontteks]

Where the druid will not wear metal it says 'will'. Will is suggesting a choice not 'cannot' or an anyway stating it has any mechanical impact.

Official response
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

In short, as always ask your DM

@MoG we usually agree but i think your logic is flawed in using the list of variant rules allowed in AL as a yard stick. AL is more standardized but DM ruling is still the final say.
You have this backwards. Will is a command, not an offering of choice.
"You will do this" is not giving you an option not to.
"You can do this" is giving you the choice.

But I'm just correcting for you what RAW is. Its literally the rules as written. Clarifications, interpetations, etc. That's all RAI. The only RAW material on this contradicts you.

[Man_Over_Game]

@MoG we usually agree but i think your logic is flawed in using the list of variant rules allowed in AL as a yard stick. AL is more standardized but DM ruling is still the final say.

The OP did say that he was very specific about it being an AL-targeted question.

[Imbalance]

As a DM I can allow a player to obtain items as specified in the ALPG. The PHB is the primary source of mundane items. Each type of medium armor in the PHB, other than Hide, is defined as having significant metal composition. My perspective is that the proficiency exception for armor allows the Druid to access rudimentary medium armors and also use magical, non-metal type advanced medium armors if they are obtained in play (via item unlocks, etc).

Now I want to run a fun game and I like to be permissive if it means we can all have a good time. But I also have to consider that characters in AL go beyond my table. I want to make sure that character portability is intact so my players can have just as good a time with their PCs at another table as they do at mine.

I can't fault you in the least. AL has its standards, which I'm not arguing. What I would advocate is an increase in such options across the published books and modules both in and out of league play. That's an opinionated suggestion, nothing more. There are plenty of strong opinions holding that classes should be more restrictive, not less. I doubt either view has much impact - I only weighed in because the vegan analogy makes me giggle.

[diplomancer]

Sorry, it wasn't at you directly at all. I meant it as support towards your statement.

Apology accepted. I guess my misunderstanding came from the English non distinction between singular and plural "your". I thought you meant me directly, and not people on the thread who were doing it.

[greenstone]

Look at the weights of the items.

Padded, leather, studded leather, and hide are all between 10lb and 14lb. This suggests that they don't have significant amounts of metal.

The next heaviest sets are a chain shirt and a breastplate, both weighing 20lb. They have significant amounts of metal. All the other armour sets are twice that weight, or more.



It's not a rule because there are literally no mechanical side effects.
Of course there aren't any side effects - it will never happen. You don't write things into a game for situations that will never come up.

[Zuras]

At all the AL venues in my town, Studded Leather, Leather and Hide are the generic non-metallic armors a Druid can wear.

The generic rule I apply as a DM is: would I allow Heat Metal cast on the armor to do damage. Since according to the spell description, studded leather does not have enough metal to cook someone in it, it is fine for a Druid to wear.

At numerous conventions I have attended, I never had any issue wearing studded leather. Also I believe the Sage Advice ruling from Chris Perkins is that Studded Leather doesn’t have to use metal.

Additionally, there are suits of wooden scale mail, Dragon Scale, and Half Plate made of either petrified mushrooms or stone available in specific adventures.

My Tier 4 Druid sports +2 Stone Half Plate when he isn’t an elemental or a Brontosaurus.

[darknite]

At all the AL venues in my town, Studded Leather, Leather and Hide are the generic non-metallic armors a Druid can wear.

The generic rule I apply as a DM is: would I allow Heat Metal cast on the armor to do damage. Since according to the spell description, studded leather does not have enough metal to cook someone in it, it is fine for a Druid to wear.

At numerous conventions I have attended, I never had any issue wearing studded leather. Also I believe the Sage Advice ruling from Chris Perkins is that Studded Leather doesn’t have to use metal.

Additionally, there are suits of wooden scale mail, Dragon Scale, and Half Plate made of either petrified mushrooms or stone available in specific adventures.

My Tier 4 Druid sports +2 Stone Half Plate when he isn’t an elemental or a Brontosaurus.

Good call!

[Tanarii]

For AL:

- you're good to go with Leather and Hide.

- Studded Leather is questionable. If you travel to a lot of different tables and you can't get a DM clarification / ruling in advance, either don't use it or bring a back up character.

[Aprender]

This is a common question that has had many discussions resulting in many firmly held opinions, none of which has been definitively found to be universally accepted as correct. Your best bet is to talk to your DM because whatever is said in an online forum, by the development team or written in the books can be explicitly overruled by the DM at the table. Even in AL, talk to your DM.

[darknite]

This is a common question that has had many discussions resulting in many firmly held opinions, none of which has been definitively found to be universally accepted as correct. Your best bet is to talk to your DM because whatever is said in an online forum, by the development team or written in the books can be explicitly overruled by the DM at the table. Even in AL, talk to your DM.

I agree 100%. My only beef with the question thus far has to do with the whole 'if there is no stated consequence then there is no rule' opinion, which to me doesn't make any sense. As a DM I err on the side of caution as I don't want to send a character on to other tables with an edge case they might get feedback on.

[Chronos]

There is a stated consequence. The statement "A druid will not wear metal armor" is equivalent to the statement "A character who will wear metal armor is not a druid". Therefore, if you wear metal armor, you lose all of the class features of being a druid.

[LibraryOgre]

For AL:

- you're good to go with Leather and Hide.

- Studded Leather is questionable. If you travel to a lot of different tables and you can't get a DM clarification / ruling in advance, either don't use it or bring a back up character.

Something I miss from 2e's Combat and Tactics was Leather Scale armor.

[ad_hoc]

A DM is perfectly free, without any houseruling, to say your druid features stop working.

Opening post wants to know about AL. Please do not advice him on a build that will not be AL legal.

Answering the OP, the Armor descriptions tell what material they are usually made of. The ones in the PHB that do not mention metal among its materials are Padded,Leather, Studded Leather, Hide, and Ring Mail. Spiked Mail, in SCAG, says its spikes are "usually made of metal" so there might be some leeway there. You may find armor made from unusual materials in many AL modules.

That's not how 5e works.

It's not designed as having exhaustive key words for everything.

For example, even though it doesn't say you need to light a candle with fire for it to shed light, you still do. Because that is how candles work.

Armour which is made out of metal is metal armour.

So the ones that aren't are Padded, Leather, and Hide.

Studded Leather is made out of closely packed metal rivets held together by leather. That's metal armour.

[KorvinStarmast]

Studded Leather is made out of closely packed metal rivets held together by leather. That's metal armour. Not quite.


Studded Leather. Made from tough but flexible
leather, studded leather is reinforced with close-set rivets
or spikes. Page 46, Basic Rules (https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=46), identical to PHB.
That is not the same as what you typed there.

(I seem to recall there being a sage advice over the studding being bone or someother hard substance as an option, or maybe it is in the DMG, but I don't want to dive into "that darned topic" again.)

[Theodoxus]

I mean, there's that whole "studded leather never existed, what you're seeing is jacked leather - basically brigantine - metal plates sewn between two pieces of leather (or cheaper, between cloth backing a leather front)" debate.

But then, "studded leather" should be on their heavier side of medium, and definitely not be wearable by druids. I'd be happy (in fact, in my homebrew, I did) swap studded for hide on the armor chart, and boost studded's AC by 1.

[Willie the Duck]

Not quite.

Page 46, Basic Rules (https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=46), identical to PHB.
That is not the same as what you typed there.

(I seem to recall there being a sage advice over the studding being bone or someother hard substance as an option, or maybe it is in the DMG, but I don't want to dive into "that darned topic" again.)

You are correct, although ad_hoc is also right that 5e does not work under the keyword system diplomancer describes. There are not a lot of specific examples here, since most of the metal armors have metal in the description. However, ringmail is metal armor, even though the description does not specify that the rings are made out of metal (because I guess you are supposed to know that).


I mean, there's that whole "studded leather never existed, what you're seeing is jacked leather - basically brigantine - metal plates sewn between two pieces of leather (or cheaper, between cloth backing a leather front)" debate.

But then, "studded leather" should be on their heavier side of medium, and definitely not be wearable by druids. I'd be happy (in fact, in my homebrew, I did) swap studded for hide on the armor chart, and boost studded's AC by 1.

IRL Brigandine was also usually worn over maille and aketon, so probably an alternate equivalent of half-plate (itself kind of a RPG-shorthand, although obviously there were more- and less-fully encompassing plate armors).

[Zuras]

For AL:

- you're good to go with Leather and Hide.

- Studded Leather is questionable. If you travel to a lot of different tables and you can't get a DM clarification / ruling in advance, either don't use it or bring a back up character.

If an AL DM isn’t letting Druids wear studded leather, they’re on the far, far end of the loose/strict interpretation bell curve. In that case, I recommend your backup character be a Sorcadin with a Staff of the Magi or that makes copious use of GWM/SS, but that may be a little too passive-aggressive for most people.

[Hytheter]

A DM is perfectly free, without any houseruling, to say your druid features stop working.

But there's no actual rule saying that a Druid's features stop working if they wear metal. Ruling that they do is inventing a new rule, basically the literal definition of houseruling. If you're following the rules, don't let them put it on in the first place; any mechanical consequences you invent after the fact absolutely are houserules.

[stoutstien]

There is a stated consequence. The statement "A druid will not wear metal armor" is equivalent to the statement "A character who will wear metal armor is not a druid". Therefore, if you wear metal armor, you lose all of the class features of being a druid.
That is a houserule. It isn't stated anywhere that's what happens. At most a DM could say it is uncomfortable for the druid to use.

But let's say you do this. How would that even work?
So if a enemy slaps a metal helmet on a druid it would cancel all of the players druid class features? Or simply command the druid to pick up a metal shield.
And why only metal armor? Weapons can be metal. Is the process of making metal armor somehow more worse for the earth than weapons?
What if the metal armor is from a different plane like forged by an azer ally?
Are druids just bias against certain elements?

[diplomancer]

But there's no actual rule saying that a Druid's features stop working if they wear metal. Ruling that they do is inventing a new rule, basically the literal definition of houseruling. If you're following the rules, don't let them put it on in the first place; any mechanical consequences you invent after the fact absolutely are houserules.

A ruling is not a houserule. If a Druid will not wear metal armor, it is a DMs ruling to decide that someone who wears metal armor is not a Druid (and therefore does not have access to a Druid's class feature)

Examples of houserules:
"There is no simulacrum spell in my game"
"I dont allow gnomes in my game"

[Zuras]

That is a houserule. It isn't stated anywhere that's what happens. At most a DM could say it is uncomfortable for the druid to use.

But let's say you do this. How would that even work?
So if a enemy slaps a metal helmet on a druid it would cancel all of the players druid class features? Or simply command the druid to pick up a metal shield.
And why only metal armor? Weapons can be metal. Is the process of making metal armor somehow more worse for the earth than weapons?
What if the metal armor is from a different plane like forged by an azer ally?
Are druids just bias against certain elements?

Druids like metal scimitars just fine, so the issue appears to be large amounts of metal surrounding their body. Nothing says Druids don’t wear metal belt buckles or such.

[Hytheter]

A ruling is not a houserule. If a Druid will not wear metal armor, it is a DMs ruling to decide that someone who wears metal armor is not a Druid (and therefore does not have access to a Druid's class feature)

Or, maybe a druid will not wear metal armour because doing so causes a feedback loop with their magical powers that causes the druid to explode! As a DM, it is my ruling that someone who wears metal armour is not a druid (and therefore does not have access to a coherent corporeal form). That's why metal weapons are fine, because there's not enough coverage (but shields behave like a reflector dish).

[stoutstien]

A ruling is not a houserule. If a Druid will not wear metal armor, it is a DMs ruling to decide that someone who wears metal armor is not a Druid (and therefore does not have access to a Druid's class feature)

I
A ruling that conflicts with RAW, RAI, and designer clarification is a houserule......

[diplomancer]

I
A ruling that conflicts with RAW, RAI, and designer clarification is a houserule......

That IS the designer clarification, actually "your DM has final say on how far you can depart from your class history and still be considered a member of the class"

[stoutstien]

That IS the designer clarification, actually "your DM has final say on how far you can depart from your class history and still be considered a member of the class"

A DM saying it's a ruling doesnt exclude the possibility for it being a houserule. It's not ether/or.a DM can just say no druids at the table. It's a ruling and a house rule

[diplomancer]

A DM saying it's a ruling doesnt exclude the possibility for it being a houserule. It's not ether/or.a DM can just say no druids at the table. It's a ruling and a house rule
No druids is a house rule.
"If you wear metal armor, that means you are not a druid" is a ruling.
"You may wear metal armor, even though you are a druid" is also a ruling (though that this is a ruling and not a house rule only became clear after the Sage Advice)

If druids not being allowed to wear metal armor was a houserule, no AL DM could disallow it.

[Chronos]

What other interpretation of not being a druid makes sense, other than not having druid class features?

[stoutstien]

No druids is a house rule.
"If you wear metal armor, that means you are not a druid" is a ruling.
"You may wear metal armor, even though you are a druid" is also a ruling (though that this is a ruling and not a house rule only became clear after the Sage Advice)

If druids not being allowed to wear metal armor was a houserule, no AL DM could disallow it.
I was referring to actually removing class features from a druid who does wear metal armor not disallowing a druid from wearing it in the first place.
Interfering with a class feature without a written rule the back it up is a house rule. like my early example in a wizard put on armor they're not proficient in there is a very specific rule governing the removal of the ability to cast spells.
5e is very careful in restricting players.

[diplomancer]

I was referring to actually removing class features from a druid who does wear metal armor not disallowing a druid from wearing it in the first place.
Interfering with a class feature without a written rule the back it up is a house rule. like my early example in a wizard put on armor they're not proficient in there is a very specific rule governing the removal of the ability to cast spells.
5e is very careful in restricting players.

The problem, as many people have pointed out, is that Druids are quite capable of putting on metal armor, and, if a player says "I put on the breastplate" the DM has to make a ruling about what happens. Just saying "no, you don't" goes against Rule 0 (player describes action, DM declares the outcome). "I guess that means you are not a Druid" is a perfectly possible ruling. And it is certainly NOT a houserule that only Druids have access to a Druid's class deatures (and therefore the person who delusionally believes himself to be a Druid does not)

[mephnick]

I just tell them that surrounding themselves with metal interferes with their connection to the magic of the planet and they can no longer use Class Features, including Spell Casting.

It's RAW as far as I'm concerned..and that's all that matters thankfully. No one is going to win this internet argument.

[LibraryOgre]

I just tell them that surrounding themselves with metal interferes with their connection to the magic of the planet and they can no longer use Class Features, including Spell Casting.

It's RAW as far as I'm concerned..and that's all that matters thankfully. No one is going to win this internet argument.

Can confirm. It goes WAY back. I bet we could start the same argument in older games about 1e or 2e, and have about the same results.

I'm kind of surprised no one has brought up "Why can they use a sword made out of metal if they can't wearing studded leather" yet. That was always a classic.

[Tanarii]

I was referring to actually removing class features from a druid who does wear metal armor not disallowing a druid from wearing it in the first place.
Interfering with a class feature without a written rule the back it up is a house rule. like my early example in a wizard put on armor they're not proficient in there is a very specific rule governing the removal of the ability to cast spells.
5e is very careful in restricting players.
Druids not being proficient in metal armors is also a ruling, not a house rule. That'd indirectly deny them spell casting if they wore it.