Why isn’t there a “greathammer”

[stewstew5]

Of all the weapons types in the game, the hammer seems like the most likely to have a great version, that is, two-handed, heavy and 10-12 max damage. I know the warhammer with versatile is similar, but something doesn’t quite sit right about that

[Kane0]

That's just a greatsword or greataxe with a different damage type. Nothing wrong with that, it's hardly even homebrew.

[stewstew5]

That's just a greatsword or greataxe with a different damage type. Nothing wrong with that, it's hardly even homebrew.

Yea, but sometimes you have ‘that’ DM. Also, the less you ask for smaller caveats the more reasonable big requests seem

[OvisCaedo]

Isn't that more or less what the Maul is?

[Emongnome777]

What about the maul?

LOL, ninja’d.

[OldTrees1]

I know the warhammer with versatile is similar, but something doesn’t quite sit right about that

Elaborate? It sounds like the 2 handed 1d10 bludgeoning damage Warhammer is the ideal weapon for you.
Or the 2 handed 2d6 bludgeoning damage Maul that I missed the first 3 times I read the weapon table.

[stewstew5]

Elaborate? It sounds like the 2 handed 1d10 bludgeoning damage Warhammer is the ideal weapon for you.
Or the 2 handed 2d6 bludgeoning damage Maul that I missed the first 3 times I read the weapon table.

Yea you’re right, don’t know how I could miss that

[No brains]

Amazons have put a lot of mauls out of business.

Or something like that.

[wilhelmdubdub]

are you looking for a hammer that is a polearm weapon? the maul is the the two handed hammer that is heavy

[Coffee_Dragon]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the maul yet.

[Vorpalchicken]

Yeah, we have a bit of a problem here. Did you see the memo about the maul? If you could go ahead and attach the cover sheet to all your DPS reports from now on that would be great. And I'll go ahead and make sure you get another copy of that memo.

[Samayu]

What's this "Maul" thing? Isn't that basically a double-ended lightsaber?

[Anderlith]

Much like after the 90’s I feel the maul has been overlooked here

[Mith]

I'm just going to go for bear and maul the dead horse with mentioning maul.

If I do it deliberately, is it with maul-icious intent?

[Blood of Gaea]

Warhammer:
https://i.imgur.com/5i7DuJS.png
Maul:
https://i.imgur.com/AjQThaV.png

[ProsecutorGodot]

Have you tried a maul yet, I don't think anyone has brought up the maul.

It's easy to miss. Slight tangent, do you think it's easy to miss because of the weapon table organization? I understand that it's alphabetical and that's always a good thing but do you ever wonder if it could have been sorted better, such as by damage type in ascending damage dice size?

The other fantastic use for a Maul is that it's cheap. Like really cheap. Do all the same things as a greatsword at 1/5 of the cost cheap.

[Blood of Gaea]

Have you tried a maul yet, I don't think anyone has brought up the maul.

It's easy to miss. Slight tangent, do you think it's easy to miss because of the weapon table organization? I understand that it's alphabetical and that's always a good thing but do you ever wonder if it could have been sorted better, such as by damage type in ascending damage dice size?

The other fantastic use for a Maul is that it's cheap. Like really cheap. Do all the same things as a greatsword at 1/5 of the cost cheap.
They might just not have recognized what the word Maul meant when they read it on the weapon table. That's why I posted pictures.

[ProsecutorGodot]

They might just not have recognized what the word Maul meant when they read it on the weapon table. That's why I posted pictures.

That's why I brought up the idea of sorting by damage type, even if you don't know what the weapon is the fact that it's the largest damage blunt weapon will lead to a natural assumption that it's going to be a big blunt weapon, probably like a hammer since the Greatclub is already present in the simple weapon table.

[stewstew5]

They might just not have recognized what the word Maul meant when they read it on the weapon table. That's why I posted pictures.

That’s more or less what happened. In my head the maul was a sort of “descendant” the flail (which I have my own complaints about the naming of)

[Willie the Duck]

That’s more or less what happened. In my head the maul was a sort of “descendant” the flail (which I have my own complaints about the naming of)

You know, I have no idea when I became aware of the word maul (other than 'a verb meaning what an angry bear will do to you if it catches you'), but I can see it not having the same intuitive connection as much of the rest of the weapon chart. Particularly if you came from TSR-era D&D, where I think Mauls only came in late-edition 2e splatbooks (and never in 1e or basic/classic).

[JakOfAllTirades]

AD&D 1st edition had this thing called a Lucerne Hammer. It wasn't a hammer, and I don't who or what "Lucerne" is. But it was a two-handed polearm type sort of thing, I guess.

[viaFAMILIAR]

First time I saw/heard what a maul was all about was way back when diablo hit the playstation console. Two-handed, heavy, crushing death, rad.

How people miss this one alludes me, the weapon table isn't huge by any means. Some even saw the word but failed their investigation check. But hey, i had the misconception that dwarves were small sized until that post about disadvantage/heavy weapons came up.

[stewstew5]

AD&D 1st edition had this thing called a Lucerne Hammer. It wasn't a hammer, and I don't who or what "Lucerne" is. But it was a two-handed polearm type sort of thing, I guess.

The lucern hammer was a hammer. It’s considered by many to be one of the best cold weapons because it was long, weirdly well weighted for its size, and equipped with a hammer head, a spike and a hook for removal from horses

[Vulsutyr]

In the modern age, a maul is often a “splitting maul,” which looks like a combination axe and hammer. Many medieval war hammers had spikes or axe blades, but that is sometimes forgotten. I understand why OP could have missed the maul as a hammer.

[JackPhoenix]

AD&D 1st edition had this thing called a Lucerne Hammer. It wasn't a hammer, and I don't who or what "Lucerne" is. But it was a two-handed polearm type sort of thing, I guess.

Lucerne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucerne) is the city in the Switzerland where many of them were found. No idea why that name got into D&D, considering there's no Switzerland, and wasn't there bohemian earspoon too?


First time I saw/heard what a maul was all about was way back when diablo hit the playstation console. Two-handed, heavy, crushing death, rad.

Ignoring the playstation part, yeah, Diablo is without a doubt the first time I saw the term.

[Willie the Duck]

Lucerne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucerne) is the city in the Switzerland where many of them were found. No idea why that name got into D&D, considering there's no Switzerland, and wasn't there bohemian earspoon too?

Well, the principle instigator of D&D's polearm-name fixation was E. Gary fun-fact-this-is-a-Swiss-surname Gygax, so if there was two potential names for the thing, him picking the Swiss one isn't surprising. As to country names in D&D, that was actually the norm at the time (what we now call alchemist's fire was 'Greek Fire,' for instance, and there was an Oriental Adventures expansion despite there not being an Orient).

[Imbalance]

Warhammer:
https://i.imgur.com/5i7DuJS.png
Maul:
https://i.imgur.com/AjQThaV.png

I'm glad you posted this comparison because in a lot of fantasy art these warhammers/ maces/ greathammers are depicted as something more akin to an engine block on a stick. That's all well and good for the larger than life tropes to have exaggerated gear, but the above images drive home the practical humanity of carrying something so weighted.

Make no mistake, that maul is h e a v y. In my youth I used a tool not much different from that to install fences (admittedly, my dad and older brother did most of that work) which we called a maul. Do not confuse this for a common sledgehammer - its broader impact surface and greater mass may not seem significant until you've spent an afternoon swinging it down onto the standing end of a dozen rough cut locust posts until 3' of their 7' length has pierced the firm earth. It's not hard to imagine the effect that a strike from this would have on an opposing warrior, regardless of armor, especially after a few instances where we had to move a post that was too wobbly. After digging it back out we found that he had split a rock by hammering a huge wooden nail through it, causing a void.

I took some liberty to "play" with the post maul long after the work was done. Later when I learned that things like this had actually been used in combat, I found it funny but wasn't surprised. It's hard to imagine it having been widely favored as an efficient killing implement, but if you can proficiently smash a dude's helmet down between his shoulder blades it sends a message that you won't have to repeat.

[Dr. Cliché]

Probably because the warhammer is already stupidly oversized.

Sticking it on a longer shaft is not going to improve matters. :smallwink:

[Tanarii]

Warhammer:
https://i.imgur.com/5i7DuJS.png
Plus if you flip the warhammer around you've got a war pick. Bonus!

[stewstew5]

I'm glad you posted this comparison because in a lot of fantasy art these warhammers/ maces/ greathammers are depicted as something more akin to an engine block on a stick. That's all well and good for the larger than life tropes to have exaggerated gear, but the above images drive home the practical humanity of carrying something so weighted.

Make no mistake, that maul is h e a v y. In my youth I used a tool not much different from that to install fences (admittedly, my dad and older brother did most of that work) which we called a maul. Do not confuse this for a common sledgehammer - its broader impact surface and greater mass may not seem significant until you've spent an afternoon swinging it down onto the standing end of a dozen rough cut locust posts until 3' of their 7' length has pierced the firm earth. It's not hard to imagine the effect that a strike from this would have on an opposing warrior, regardless of armor, especially after a few instances where we had to move a post that was too wobbly. After digging it back out we found that he had split a rock by hammering a huge wooden nail through it, causing a void.

I took some liberty to "play" with the post maul long after the work was done. Later when I learned that things like this had actually been used in combat, I found it funny but wasn't surprised. It's hard to imagine it having been widely favored as an efficient killing implement, but if you can proficiently smash a dude's helmet down between his shoulder blades it sends a message that you won't have to repeat.

I was expecting a recipe at the end of this

[Imbalance]

I was expecting a recipe at the end of this

Ingredients:
1 box Jell-O vanilla pudding
1 tub Cool Whip
Graham crackers
2 cups milk
1 stick butter
2/3 cup cocoa
3 cups powdered sugar
1/3 cup milk
1 teaspoon vanilla extract

Place a layer of graham crackers at the bottom of a 10" baking pan. Prepare the pudding mix with milk according to box instructions, add whipped cream. Pour a generous layer of pudding mix over the graham crackers and level. Add alternating layers of graham cracker and pudding mix to top of pan.

Prepare the frosting by combining cocoa and melted butter. Add milk. Gradually stir in powdered sugar to maintain consistency. Stir in vanilla.

Pour frosting over top of cake and spread evenly. Cover pan and place in refrigerator to chill overnight or at least 12 hours before serving.

[Chronos]

...Then smash with a big hammer.

[DMThac0]

Or maul...

[GlenSmash!]

I thought this thread was going to be about the lack of a bludgeoning reach weapon or Polehammer.

[Man_Over_Game]

Elaborate? It sounds like the 2 handed 1d10 bludgeoning damage Warhammer is the ideal weapon for you.
Or the 2 handed 2d6 bludgeoning damage Maul that I missed the first 3 times I read the weapon table.


Yea you’re right, don’t know how I could miss that

He found the solution a page ago. Disaster averted, guys, we can all go home.

[No brains]

He found the solution a page ago. Disaster averted, guys, we can all go home.

If it's not bothering the OP, let's just keep this silliness train rolling. If it's all in good fun, it's unlikely we'll get banhammer'dmaul'd.:smallsmile:

[Tetrasodium]

Yea, but sometimes you have ‘that’ DM. Also, the less you ask for smaller caveats the more reasonable big requests seem

Not saying this is the case, but sometimes you have "that" player who asks for something seemingly nothing more than fluff but is planning something they know is basically broken

[Max_Killjoy]

Of note is that the big "hammer" weapons often called "mauls" probably had a wooden or metal-shod wooden head, not a full metal head.

Having used a full-metal-head splitting maul that's not even the size of the one in the picture upthread, I can say with confidence that most people would find the full-metal-head version far too heavy and unwieldy for use as an actual weapon. It would make an UGLY finisher against foes who were stunned and down, though.

[Man_Over_Game]

If it's not bothering the OP, let's just keep this silliness train rolling. If it's all in good fun, it's unlikely we'll get banhammer'dmaul'd.:smallsmile:

I posted that as an attempt to spur on more ideas. A lot of people are still going "lolwat don't you mean maul? maul not good enough for you?", because they didn't know the OP already got what he was looking for.

[Tanarii]

I posted that as an attempt to spur on more ideas. A lot of people are still going "lolwat don't you mean maul? maul not good enough for you?", because they didn't know the OP already got what he was looking for.
Indeed. There's no need to maul the point home to the OP.

But surely you can see why we'd all be mauldlin if we thought someone was interrupted the fun?

[KorvinStarmast]

AD&D 1st edition had this thing called a Lucerne Hammer. It wasn't a hammer, and I don't who or what "Lucerne" is. But it was a two-handed polearm type sort of thing, I guess. It is a place in Switzerland. I learned that in the 1960's when I ate cottage cheese with the brand name "Lucerne." I asked my mom what Lucerne is and she pointed me toward the encyclopedia.

"Go and find out" she said.

An hour later, having gottena bit distracted and reading up on a bunch of stuff about Switzerland, I came back with my new factoid. That is when I learned that there were four official languages in Switzerland.

[Imbalance]

Where's your recipe, Starmast? Apparently, this thread demands one with every flashback.

[pragma]

Indeed. There's no need to maul the point home to the OP.

But surely you can see why we'd all be mauldlin if we thought someone was interrupted the fun?

Nice job, Tanarii: Your maultiple answers seem to have maullified MOG. It's good to know you're not doing anything maulicious here.

[Kyutaru]

Okay, to solve the problem I promise the following new weapons table.

Simple Weapons
- Sword
- Axe
- Hammer

Martial Weapons
- Greatsword
- Greataxe
- Greathammer
- Polesword
- Poleaxe
- Polehammer

Exotic Weapons
- Double-bladed Sword
- Double-headed Axe
- Double-weighted Hammer

Ranged Weapons
- Throwing Sword
- Throwing Axe
- Throwing Hammer

[JackPhoenix]

Okay, to solve the problem I promise the following new weapons table.

snippity snip

Ranged Weapons
- Throwing Sword
- Throwing Axe
- Throwing Hammer

Can I throw just the pommel instead? I've heard it's more effective.

[Kyutaru]

Can I throw just the pommel instead? I've heard it's more effective.

I don't think daggers have pommels. It's just a hilt and a blade. But sure, if your throwing sword happens to include one then you can do that.

[stewstew5]

I posted that as an attempt to spur on more ideas. A lot of people are still going "lolwat don't you mean maul? maul not good enough for you?", because they didn't know the OP already got what he was looking for.

Oh MOG, always watching out for me

[Coffee_Dragon]

OK, to solve the problem I propose the following new weapons table:


Maul
Doublemaul
Greatmaul
Smallmaul
Throwmaul
Maul-guisarme

[Wizard_Lizard]

there IS, it is called the WARhammer.

[Imbalance]

OK, to solve the problem I propose the following new weapons table:


Maul
Stripmaul
Megamaul
Minimaul
Skymaul
Maul-waukee


Slightfixt

[gkathellar]

Plus if you flip the warhammer around you've got a war pick. Bonus!

Uh ... that's what it's designed for, yes. Why the sarcasm?

[FabulousFizban]

called a maul bro

[GlenSmash!]

Can I throw just the pommel instead? I've heard it's more effective.

You need the End Them Rightly Maneuver for this I think.

[No brains]

Part of why there isn't a "great" hammer per se is that there aren't a lot of good magic hammers. Dwarven Thrower is really good, but since it's Dwarf-exclusive, I can't really call it "great". I can call it good, excellent, incredible even, but not really "great".

[Maan]

OK, to solve the problem I propose the following new weapons table:


Maul
Doublemaul
Greatmaul
Smallmaul
Throwmaul
Maul-guisarme

What about maul-maul-guisarme-maul?

[stoutstien]

All warebears should use mauls to continue to maul foes without risking spreading the curse.

[Kyutaru]

What about maul-maul-guisarme-maul?

And the Maul-Maul-Maul-Maul-Duck?


In other news, I'm adding to my list the rest of the easy to use weapons.

Martial + Rogue Weapons
- Shortsword
- Shortaxe
- Shorthammer

Versatile
- Longsword
- Longaxe
- Longhammer

[Vorpalchicken]

Stop!.......

[Vorpalchicken]

https://d2o7bfz2il9cb7.cloudfront.net/main-qimg-b4c348e782b2d37fa0c3fdaccb400a5b

[JakOfAllTirades]

The lucern hammer was a hammer.

If you say so....

https://d27nqrvkk22y65.cloudfront.net/product_image/image/381356/big_e3c4819582.png

[yellowrocket]

There have been many great hammers. There was mc hammer. The hammer of God (mariano Rivera).

[Wizard_Lizard]

There have been many great hammers. There was mc hammer. The hammer of God (mariano Rivera).

Hahahahahahaha

[stewstew5]

If you say so....

https://d27nqrvkk22y65.cloudfront.net/product_image/image/381356/big_e3c4819582.png

https://www.google.com/search?q=hammer&rlz=1CDGOYI_enCA835CA835&hl=en-US&prmd=ismvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOzoWp7OfiAhVRpZ4KHfZqBroQ_AUoAXoECA0QA Q&biw=320&bih=452#imgrc=jCBG11lJBc6XcM

[Wizard_Lizard]

https://www.google.com/search?q=hammer&rlz=1CDGOYI_enCA835CA835&hl=en-US&prmd=ismvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOzoWp7OfiAhVRpZ4KHfZqBroQ_AUoAXoECA0QA Q&biw=320&bih=452#imgrc=jCBG11lJBc6XcM

Is that even a hammer anymore?

[No brains]

All warebears should use mauls to continue to maul foes without risking spreading the curse.

Hey, they have a right to bear arms! ...Though they may also bear arms. Verbing weirds language.


Stop!.......

Maul time? I didn't click the link.

[rlc]

There have been many great hammers. There was mc hammer. The hammer of God (mariano Rivera).

Hebrew Hammer was a pretty funny movie.

[Vorpalchicken]

Hebrew Hammer was a pretty funny movie.

Edward I was the Hammer of the Scots. And he had Mel Gibson's junk cut off. Probably largely as punishment for an anachronistic plot.

[Blood of Gaea]

You know, I have no idea when I became aware of the word maul (other than 'a verb meaning what an angry bear will do to you if it catches you'), but I can see it not having the same intuitive connection as much of the rest of the weapon chart. Particularly if you came from TSR-era D&D, where I think Mauls only came in late-edition 2e splatbooks (and never in 1e or basic/classic).
It's the only name you can put to the massive hammers used only by fantasy characters, so they just took the tool that is a really big hammer and called it a day.


AD&D 1st edition had this thing called a Lucerne Hammer. It wasn't a hammer, and I don't who or what "Lucerne" is. But it was a two-handed polearm type sort of thing, I guess.
Basically, it's a poleaxe but the axehead is a spike usually. In reality, this is just a type of polearm that has three different heads that get mixed and matched and have relatively unreliable names for said combinations.
https://i.imgur.com/RcwbVeH.png


I'm glad you posted this comparison because in a lot of fantasy art these warhammers/ maces/ greathammers are depicted as something more akin to an engine block on a stick. That's all well and good for the larger than life tropes to have exaggerated gear, but the above images drive home the practical humanity of carrying something so weighted.

Make no mistake, that maul is h e a v y. In my youth I used a tool not much different from that to install fences (admittedly, my dad and older brother did most of that work) which we called a maul. Do not confuse this for a common sledgehammer - its broader impact surface and greater mass may not seem significant until you've spent an afternoon swinging it down onto the standing end of a dozen rough cut locust posts until 3' of their 7' length has pierced the firm earth. It's not hard to imagine the effect that a strike from this would have on an opposing warrior, regardless of armor, especially after a few instances where we had to move a post that was too wobbly. After digging it back out we found that he had split a rock by hammering a huge wooden nail through it, causing a void.

I took some liberty to "play" with the post maul long after the work was done. Later when I learned that things like this had actually been used in combat, I found it funny but wasn't surprised. It's hard to imagine it having been widely favored as an efficient killing implement, but if you can proficiently smash a dude's helmet down between his shoulder blades it sends a message that you won't have to repeat.
Mauls are to warhammers what pitchforks are to spears.


Plus if you flip the warhammer around you've got a war pick. Bonus!
That's also why you have a hard type finding good depiction of "war picks", they'd usually just the back end of other weapons.


Of note is that the big "hammer" weapons often called "mauls" probably had a wooden or metal-shod wooden head, not a full metal head.

Having used a full-metal-head splitting maul that's not even the size of the one in the picture upthread, I can say with confidence that most people would find the full-metal-head version far too heavy and unwieldy for use as an actual weapon. It would make an UGLY finisher against foes who were stunned and down, though.
It's a tool, not a weapon, so yeah, unwieldy and slow is the name of the game. D&D characters use them fine because it's cool. Just like they can make a two-blades sword effective.


Okay, to solve the problem I promise the following new weapons table.

Simple Weapons
- Sword
- Axe
- Hammer

Martial Weapons
- Greatsword
- Greataxe
- Greathammer
- Polesword
- Poleaxe
- Polehammer

Exotic Weapons
- Double-bladed Sword
- Double-headed Axe
- Double-weighted Hammer

Ranged Weapons
- Throwing Sword
- Throwing Axe
- Throwing Hammer
Just use one of those homebrewed weapon creaters that tons of people have made, then call it whatever the hell you want, that's the best way to do it.


Uh ... that's what it's designed for, yes. Why the sarcasm?
Because we don't have alternative damage methods in D&D. :smalltongue:


Is that even a hammer anymore?
It is indeed, the head is just split like that so that it grips better onto smoothly curved armor specifically made redirect blows when you give it the old wallop.

[Willie the Duck]

It's the only name you can put to the massive hammers used only by fantasy characters, so they just took the tool that is a really big hammer and called it a day.

Mauls are to warhammers what pitchforks are to spears.

It's a tool, not a weapon, so yeah, unwieldy and slow is the name of the game. D&D characters use them fine because it's cool. Just like they can make a two-blades sword effective.

Blood of Gaea, are you under the impression that using a maul as a weapon is an invention of fantasy fiction? Because they were used at the Battle of Agincourt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hammer#Maul), to throw out one famous instance. Yes, they were repurposed tools, but they were real, effective, and historic.

[Max_Killjoy]

Blood of Gaea, are you under the impression that using a maul as a weapon is an invention of fantasy fiction? Because they were used at the Battle of Agincourt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hammer#Maul), to throw out one famous instance. Yes, they were repurposed tools, but they were real, effective, and historic.

My original point was that the mauls used as weapons probably had wood or shod-wood heads, not full metal -- not that mauls weren't ever used as weapons.

[Resileaf]

If I had a gun to my head and had to guess whether two-handed mauls were commonly-used weapons in ancient times, I would assume that the one-handed version would be more popular due to having better control of where you hit the other guy.

[Willie the Duck]

My original point was that the mauls used as weapons probably had wood or shod-wood heads, not full metal -- not that mauls weren't ever used as weapons.
?
I, um, didn't reference you at all. I was talking to Blood of Gaea, whom I quoted. They too, might be well aware of the historic uses of mauls as weapons, but it was not clear (with some statements possibly indicating that they thought it was strictly a fantasy contrivance), which is why I sought clarification.

[rlc]

Honestly, though, "greathammer" doesn't have the same kind of ring to it that "greataxe" and "greatsword" do.

[JackPhoenix]

Honestly, though, "greathammer" doesn't have the same kind of ring to it that "greataxe" and "greatsword" do.

So... how about bighammer? Hugehammer? Gianthammer? BigFrikkin'Hammer? Megahammer?

[Willie the Duck]

So... how about bighammer? Hugehammer? Gianthammer? BigFrikkin'Hammer? Megahammer?

Maul works fine. Although, honestly, if the two-handed hammer doesn't have an impressive-sounding name, that's probably fine because over on the one handed weapons side, WARHAMMER has got to be the coolest sounding weapon on the list.

[Blood of Gaea]

Blood of Gaea, are you under the impression that using a maul as a weapon is an invention of fantasy fiction? Because they were used at the Battle of Agincourt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hammer#Maul), to throw out one famous instance. Yes, they were repurposed tools, but they were real, effective, and historic.
I am indeed aware. My point was that they are improvised weapons. You also see other improvised weapons in war, scythes which are minimally reforged into a polearm. A weapon you can use, but nobody is going to grab a maul over a poleaxe.

I don't think they belong on the weapon table any more a pitchfork, hatchet, or hoe. They would instead be used by people that like fun weapon choices to go with the Tavern Brawler feat.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Polish_scythemen_1863.PNG/250px-Polish_scythemen_1863.PNG

[Willie the Duck]

I am indeed aware. My point was that they are improvised weapons. You also see other improvised weapons in war, scythes which are minimally reforged into a polearm. A weapon you can use, but nobody is going to grab a maul over a poleaxe.

I don't think they belong on the weapon table any more a pitchfork, hatchet, or hoe. They would instead be used by people that like fun weapon choices to go with the Tavern Brawler feat.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Polish_scythemen_1863.PNG/250px-Polish_scythemen_1863.PNG

Good to know. Agree with everything except the term Improvised. It makes it sound like they are ill-purpose-suited items of opportunity (like an actual scythe*). Mauls might have a primary purpose as a tool, but they are well suited to being an actual weapon, and were so used, deliberately at times.

The use of the maul as a weapon seems to date from the later 14th century. During the Harelle of 1382, rebellious citizens of Paris seized 3000 mauls (French: maillet) from the city armory, leading to the rebels being dubbed Maillotins.[1] Later in the same year, Froissart records French men-at-arms using mauls at the Battle of Roosebeke, demonstrating that they were not simply weapons of the lower classes.[2]
*as opposed to war scythes and things with actual modification, such as depicted in your picture.

I do agree about having fun with Tavern Brawler, and the fine line between improvised weapon (regular scythe, hoe, pitchfork), predominant tool but makes a good weapon (Maul), and weapon with form similar to a tool (war axes and hammers). Every once in a while we have a thread where someone wants to play a grim reaper (or Warhammer, I think)-themed character who uses a scythe and someone comes along to call them an edgelord snowflake somethingsomething for it. Meanwhile sickles exist on the weapon chart, and tridents and nets (never weapons of war, made iconic by depiction in Roman gladiatorial matches, where not being too lethal was part of the reason for use) somehow became martial.

[Blood of Gaea]

I do agree about having fun with Tavern Brawler, and the fine line between improvised weapon (regular scythe, hoe, pitchfork), predominant tool but makes a good weapon (Maul), and weapon with form similar to a tool (war axes and hammers). Every once in a while we have a thread where someone wants to play a grim reaper (or Warhammer, I think)-themed character who uses a scythe and someone comes along to call them an edgelord snowflake somethingsomething for it. Meanwhile sickles exist on the weapon chart, and tridents and nets (never weapons of war, made iconic by depiction in Roman gladiatorial matches, where not being too lethal was part of the reason for use) somehow became martial.
That is indeed a rather awkward problem, and exactly why I use homebrewed weapon crafting tables. People can make weapons of their choice freely, I can make whatever weapons I'd like to add into the campaign, and there are a plethora of improvised weapons people can use, whether it be a broken bottle for a dagger or a maul for a polehammer.

[Imbalance]

I like having options, though I never go into battle without my warpliers.

[stewstew5]

I like having options, though I never go into battle without my warpliers.

Warpliers | 10 gp | 2d4 bludgeoning | 3 lbs | 2 handed, special

Special: immediately after attacking a creature, you may use your bonus action to attempt to grapple them. They automatically succeed escaping the grapple if you attack another creature with these

[napoleon_in_rag]

At my table, I have replaced the 5e weapon list with just the description. So I list a "Two handed, heavy, 2d6 bludgeoning weapon." The players can then call it a "maul" or a "great hammer" or a "two handed mace" or a "Dwarven hip crusher" or an "Orc Tenderizer". I don't care what they call it as long as the mechanics don't change.

[Coffee_Dragon]

At my table, I have replaced the 5e weapon list with just the description. So I list a "Two handed, heavy, 2d6 bludgeoning weapon." The players can then call it a "maul" or a "great hammer" or a "two handed mace" or a "Dwarven hip crusher" or an "Orc Tenderizer". I don't care what they call it as long as the mechanics don't change.

"Dagger"..

[napoleon_in_rag]

"Dagger"..

Sure, as long as "dagger" means a heavy blunt two handed weapon.

A rose by any other name still smells as sweet.
A maul by any other name still turns goblins into pools of chunky salsa.

[Max_Killjoy]

Sure, as long as "dagger" means a heavy blunt two handed weapon.

A rose by any other name still smells as sweet.
A maul by any other name still turns goblins into pools of chunky salsa.

Perhaps the question was, if a Class has restricted weapons, say with "dagger" on the allowed list, do you let them call that big two-handed bludgeoning weapon a "dagger" and use it with Proficiency?

[OverLordOcelot]

Perhaps the question was, if a Class has restricted weapons, say with "dagger" on the allowed list, do you let them call that big two-handed bludgeoning weapon a "dagger" and use it with Proficiency?

I think that's likely to get the player removed from the allowed list instead.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I think that's likely to get the player removed from the allowed list instead.

It's a necessary question to ask if you're taking all the names off the weapons. Classes like Rogue and races like Elves rely on specifically named weapons for their proficiencies rather than the Simple/Martial split that exists for Fighters and Rangers for example.

What proficiencies do they have if there is no weapon called "Dagger" or "Rapier" on your weapon table?

[napoleon_in_rag]

It's a necessary question to ask if you're taking all the names off the weapons. Classes like Rogue and races like Elves rely on specifically named weapons for their proficiencies rather than the Simple/Martial split that exists for Fighters and Rangers for example.

What proficiencies do they have if there is no weapon called "Dagger"... on your weapon table?

The character would be proficient in one handed, finesse, thrown, 1d4 damage piercing weapons. They can call it a dagger or a stiletto or elven throwing fish or whatever. I don't care as long there are no changes to the game's mechanics and that includes proficiencies, racial abilities, etc.

It makes the following questions very easy to answer:
"Can my character use a Naginata?" (I give them the stats for a Glaive)
"I want my character to dual wield two Kukris." (I give them the stats for a Scimitar)
"I saw (insert anime title) where this character used (insert weapon name). Can I do this?" (I give them the stats of the 5e weapon that is closest to what they want).

[Max_Killjoy]

The character would be proficient in one handed, finesse, thrown, 1d4 damage piercing weapons. They can call it a dagger or a stiletto or elven throwing fish or whatever. I don't care as long there are no changes to the game's mechanics and that includes proficiencies, racial abilities, etc.


You didn't include your changes to the Class proficiencies in your initial description, so we asked.

(Not that "dagger" is ever a legitimate word for referring to "a heavy, 2-handed, blunt weapon", but that's a different debate".)

[JackPhoenix]

The character would be proficient in one handed, finesse, thrown, 1d4 damage piercing weapons. They can call it a dagger or a stiletto or elven throwing fish or whatever. I don't care as long there are no changes to the game's mechanics and that includes proficiencies, racial abilities, etc.

It makes the following questions very easy to answer:
"Can my character use a Naginata?" (I give them the stats for a Glaive)
"I want my character to dual wield two Kukris." (I give them the stats for a Scimitar)
"I saw (insert anime title) where this character used (insert weapon name). Can I do this?" (I give them the stats of the 5e weapon that is closest to what they want).

So, isn't it a bit pointless to have long description of the weapon's mechanics instead of a name of weapon that you can change to whatever you want anyway?

And "proficiency with daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs and light crossbows" takes lot less space than "proficiency with one handed, finesse, thrown 1d4 damage piercing melee weapons, one handed, finesse thrown 1d4 piercing ranged weapons, one handed, ammunition 1d4 bludgeoning ranged weapon, one handed, versatile (1d8) 1d6 bludgeoning melee weapon and two handed, loading, ammunition 1d8 piercing weapons", even if the players don't look at the description and give you blank stare and "Um... what?".

[stewstew5]

At my table, I have replaced the 5e weapon list with just the description. So I list a "Two handed, heavy, 2d6 bludgeoning weapon." The players can then call it a "maul" or a "great hammer" or a "two handed mace" or a "Dwarven hip crusher" or an "Orc Tenderizer". I don't care what they call it as long as the mechanics don't change.

It’s worth noting that that’s already a part of 5e- it literally says “your gear looks like you want it to”, then uses a similar weapon as a reference point rules-wise. Re-flavouring is a big part of D&D and is why the core rules can stay so slim compared to say, 3.5, where every possible character concept needed an attached ruleset

[Imbalance]

(Not that "dagger" is ever a legitimate word for referring to "a heavy, 2-handed, blunt weapon", but that's a different debate".)

A sufficiently dull knife is indistinguishable from a mace? Doesn't check out. Killjoy is right.

[Kyutaru]

Killjoy is right.
Well now that's going to get immortalized in the hall of myths and legends.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well now that's going to get immortalized in the hall of myths and legends.

I'll try to not let it go to my head.

[No brains]

Well if you get a gargantuan dagger with a dull blade and a big enough crossguard, maybe you could use it as a maul. An Empyrean's stilletto is a dwarf's hammer! Sounds like a pretty great hammer to me. :smalltongue:

[Imbalance]

Well if you get a gargantuan dagger with a dull blade and a big enough crossguard, maybe you could use it as a maul. An Empyrean's stilletto is a dwarf's hammer! Sounds like a pretty great hammer to me. :smalltongue:

I can imagine the plausibility of this, but like, the dwarf is never gonna sneak up and stab a fool with it, nor will the big guy ever consider it a beatdown tool (unless there's a significant pommel). It's true that every tool's a hammer, but this would be transformative. And I totally want to see it done.