Lord of the iron fortress help *spoilers*

[Roninblack]

My party just started running though lord of the iron fortress module, we've been following the complete sunless citadel chain.

For the most part I've been rebuilding npc's to 3.5, but I was hoping there was an easier way to adapt the encounter "bolt from the blues" because i don't even know where to start fixing an encounter with 3 blue dragons.

(Side note, I'll make another thread later if this doesn't get answered, but the final module has serious issues adapting the great red himself too 3.5 advice?)

[Mike Miller]

What is your party makeup? Classes, levels, feats, equipment? The 3 dragon encounter isn't all that bad. There isn't much in the way of terrain disadvantage for the PCs. It is wide open so the dragons will be easily targeted. Their defensive tactics aren't impressive. These are not particularly powerful dragons. Their DR is pathetic, their AC is reachable, and their SR is low. Even their caster levels are low. No worries there!

I will admit that as written, Ashardalon is a beast, though. Multiple encounters in that module, including the first, are quite difficult.

[Roninblack]

What is your party makeup? Classes, levels, feats, equipment? The 3 dragon encounter isn't all that bad.

The party is composed of a 12th lvl dragon shaman, 2nd lvl dragon lord, with a homebrew item that allows him to have 2 auras up at once. A sorc. 12 abjurant champion 2, who is mostly evocation, a rogue 14 with (because I'm stupid) the shadow template, a psion telepath 13, and a druid 15 (doesn't use his abilities to the extreme). The rogue has swift and silent, he uses HiPS and sneak attacks for ridiculous, the telepath is a mind rapist aka dominate, the druid is a caster primarily, and the dragon shaman thinks he's a tank, with most of the charger feats and power attack.

I'm not sure how to run it is my primary issue, all of the spells and buffs and tactics are moot because of the major magic overhaul to 3.5, many of the spells don't act like the description says they should.

[Mike Miller]

Start by picking useful spells for them up to... 4th level. If you want the battle to be difficult, make the dragons older. A group of mostly 14th level PCs is packing a lot of power. If you keep them as the same age, have them see the PCs but not be seen by the PCs. Maybe have them use a sense other than sight to locate the PCs or magic. Have the dragons put up useful buffs, like lesser globe of invulnerability and displacement. Throw out some black tentacles and glitterdust and have all the dragons close in rapidly on a single caster PC. You could try to grapple a caster or two and fly off with them. If the party isn't immune to fear, that could be interesting. Three chances to fail a frightful presence saving throw. Ray deflection and scintillating scales make for good defensive buffs. You could try some Walls of...Fire / Ice for BFC. Solid Fog will disappear from Druid, probably. I'm guessing the party will be able to see invisibility so no point for grtr invis.

As for offense, you could have force missiles and the orb spells. Maybe the rays: dizziness, weakness, stupidity, sickness. Chain missile could be good too. There aren't too many great options with such a low caster level, though.

I still think the best option to make this battle tougher is to make the dragons older. Alternately, change the dragon type. Find a neat type of dragon in Draconomicon or other source.

[Roninblack]

Thanks for all the advice! I'm sure I'll use most of it.

In my homebrew world i tend to do dragon nests (ala how to train your Dragon) so do you think i should add more lower level dragons and bump these up an age category? What would be a good mix you think?

[Zeb]

When I ran it I made heavy use of draconomicon and rebuilt them in 3 roles, one as a breath weapon focused harassment type, one focused on casting and one melee.

Because of the cubes terrain you can make the battle drawn out over a little distance and time to adjust the difficulty with the dragons retreating or falling back to the nest to change up the engagement type. If you want to get home-brew fancy you can have the lighting breath leave electrified parts of the metal cube or even magnetized sections of terrain to spice it up.

In bastion I did a complete rework of Ashardalon focusing on breath effects and battlefield control. I also let him keep the 3.0 extra action haste since as a solo boss since he really loses out on the action economy. If I were to run it now i would include lair or legendary actions.

Glad to see others running the whole adventure path since it was really one of the more interesting things in 3.0.

[Roninblack]

When I ran it I made heavy use of draconomicon and rebuilt them in 3 roles, one as a breath weapon focused harassment type, one focused on casting and one melee.

Smart! Just move feats and spells around!

How did you manage to redo ashardalon, did you have to reverse engineer what his "graft" could do?

[Efrate]

I ran sunless in 3.0 and ashardalon is pretty nasty. I agree with 3.0 haste for him. I would also think of giving him a globe of invulnerability excluding 6th and lower spells, and redoing the powers of the artifact pieces. Surround him with difficult terrain, full buffs from both sides of casting and redo his feats.

He is kind of the baddest foe in 3.0 before demon lords, and better than most of them, make him feel like it. Demogorgon is half helping so a few balors as minions would not be bad.

If he is an epic caster (i forget) give him some lowish power epic spells. Things like hellball are fine. You could also gestalt him kind of with either incarnate/necrocarnate or totemist since he is at the font of souls. Its flavorful and fitting.

Look at his vestige as well and reverse engineer sone stuff if that helps.

He is the biggest baddest red dragon half fiend with at least one artifact, make sure he feels like it.

[Roninblack]

He is the biggest baddest red dragon half fiend with at least one artifact, make sure he feels like it.

I hadn't even thought of this, but now i certainly intend to. Ive had to redo most of the npcs because they feel cobbled together, and my pcs are moderately optimized and need the challenge

[Zeb]

Yea his spell list and items need a revision, scintillating scales is a must, and the ability to counter timestop is very underwhelming. You can pick any /all of the disciple of Ashardalon class features for him to give him a more unique feel.

His bard minion can also use an overhaul; Dragonfire inspiration can be fun but I prefer Dracolexi. Lost of nice little goodies and focusing on spoken spells means it keeps its use if grappled by the Bearbarian or amidst a sticky napalm vortex of dragon-fire.

Really you know your party best so try to make him... not unbeatable but worth the win. Due to a 'traitor' rogue my party of 7 only had 2 loyal left standing after the Fight and then the 'heart' fight effectively wiped them, but no one really wanted to deal with epic levels, they succeed and it seemed a fitting end.

[Roninblack]

Wow, sorry about the rogue, i appreciate all the advice! I got the dragons up an age category, and rebuilt, so thanks for that as well. Just need to do imperigon, the rakshasa and the fallen archon to finish restating this module, and then I'll start the next!