Mtg And D&D crossovers

[TheExplosiveRog]

So, me and my friends all enjoy Mtg and D&D. I finished running a Zendikar campaign a while back, and currently running a Ravnica campaign. I like having 2 games active, so I have this question. What Mtg settings would you like to see be played out? Not following the planes own story, of course, but a campaign based on the campaign. I do not mind homebrewing new races or classes for it!

Note: 5e, and I am a more "quality over quantity" homebrewer.

[Spriteless]

I liked how Kamigawa had the more lawful types side with gods who were messing up the world, while the mercenary types saved it. I loved the Moonfolk (https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3A%22Moonfolk%22), but what I liked was a bunch of rabbit ladies who weren't sexy playboy bunnies. I don't know how to make a bunch of flying wizards that bounce lands even make sense in D&D. I loved all the animal people in that though. Nezumi, Orochi, and Kitsune humanoids, all chillin with human and spirit allies. I guess Orochi could be Lizardfolk easily enough, but the Ratfolk and Fox Abjurers don't have easy counterparts that I know of.

[TheExplosiveRog]

I liked how Kamigawa had the more lawful types side with gods who were messing up the world, while the mercenary types saved it. I loved the Moonfolk (https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3A%22Moonfolk%22), but what I liked was a bunch of rabbit ladies who weren't sexy playboy bunnies. I don't know how to make a bunch of flying wizards that bounce lands even make sense in D&D. I loved all the animal people in that though. Nezumi, Orochi, and Kitsune humanoids, all chillin with human and spirit allies. I guess Orochi could be Lizardfolk easily enough, but the Ratfolk and Fox Abjurers don't have easy counterparts that I know of.

Hmm! Kamigawa does sound fun. But what race do you mean are bunnies? Moonfolk don't look bunny esque to me...

[CharacterIV]

Innistrad.

Which is just Ravenloft.

But we ain’t getting Ravenloft, so...

[TheExplosiveRog]

Innistrad.

Which is just Ravenloft.

But we ain’t getting Ravenloft, so...

Hmm... not bad, but I see an issue with races... Innistrad only has, in terms of likely to not be broken races, humans.

[Spriteless]

Hmm! Kamigawa does sound fun. But what race do you mean are bunnies? Moonfolk don't look bunny esque to me...

They've mostly got really long ears, that look more like ribbons covering their ears, actually. In Japan, the moon is said to have a picture of a rabbit pounding rice into mochi cakes, instead of a face. So... that is 2 connections to rabbits. But really, it is so tastefully done that even furries don't notice.

I need to look up what all Vedalkin have and replace all water abilities with featherfall and weather abilities and sundry.

[GreyBlack]

So, me and my friends all enjoy Mtg and D&D. I finished running a Zendikar campaign a while back, and currently running a Ravnica campaign. I like having 2 games active, so I have this question. What Mtg settings would you like to see be played out? Not following the planes own story, of course, but a campaign based on the campaign. I do not mind homebrewing new races or classes for it!

Note: 5e, and I am a more "quality over quantity" homebrewer.

None. I think that, in order to make a true MTG RPG, you'd have to completely reinvent the D&D magic system into a system more akin to Mage: the Ascension than the current Vancian system.

If you want to do this, maybe start by reinventing the magic system first, then we can see about settings.

[Tvtyrant]

New phyrexia, which is pretty close to being actual, factual robot hell.

[TheExplosiveRog]

They've mostly got really long ears, that look more like ribbons covering their ears, actually. In Japan, the moon is said to have a picture of a rabbit pounding rice into mochi cakes, instead of a face. So... that is 2 connections to rabbits. But really, it is so tastefully done that even furries don't notice.

I need to look up what all Vedalkin have and replace all water abilities with featherfall and weather abilities and sundry.

Ooooooh! That explains the ribbons! Nice!

[Steel Mirror]

Ulgrotha (https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Homelands):smallbiggrin:

I actually think that, if I were to do an MtG game, I'd want to bring in a bunch of planes. Do the whole planeswalker thing. Have one or more of the players spark, or at least give them a macguffin a la the Weatherlight that lets them cross the Blind Eternities despite being mere mortals. Or throw them together in the first session and let everyone be freshly minted walkers from their favorite plane, but landing in the middle of Ravnica when the Planar Beacon was lit...

And for my big baddies, definitely the Phyrexians. Elesh Norn would be an epic BBEG.

[Damon_Tor]

I don't know how to make a bunch of flying wizards that bounce lands even make sense in D&D.

A Planeswalker spark igniting is basically a sorcery origin. Most of the time they've already taken class levels in something else, and they don't always take more than the one level in Planeswalker. They get planeshift at level (1 once per day?)

Then you just say each spell slot they get from the sorcerer class is a land they tap. Write up a really versatile general summoning spell that lets you summon creatures you've encountered, up to and including humanoids. Put it on their spell list. Higher level slots gets higher CR creatures as is typical.

There, that's it, functional Planeswalker.

[Steel Mirror]

A Planeswalker spark igniting is basically a sorcery origin. Most of the time they've already taken class levels in something else, and they don't always take more than the one level in Planeswalker. They get planeshift at level (1 once per day?)

Then you just say each spell slot they get from the sorcerer class is a land they tap. Write up a really versatile general summoning spell that lets you summon creatures you've encountered, up to and including humanoids. Put it on their spell list. Higher level slots gets higher CR creatures as is typical.

There, that's it, functional Planeswalker.The quote you referenced was actually a reference to Moonfolk, a tribe from Kamigawa that did some weird stuff with bouncing their own side's lands. Not planeswalkers.

I personally don't think that using MtG lore requires doing too much in the way of messing with systems and underlying game mechanics. For me, the orlds and lore are fun, and throwing in some references can be cool, but I'm fundamentally not worried that magic in MtG the card game is completely different to how it plays out in MtG the D&D setting. I'm also fine with fudging the way magic works, since the MtG lore was written with a very different kind of game in mind, and was always super fuzzy and self-contradictory anyway.

So planeswalking being a ritual that an inexperienced walker might need to spend several hours attempting, with the ability to bring along your friends, or even a learned skill, would all be fine to me. It completely craps on the MtG established planeswalking mechanics, but if I'm playing D&D I'll make gameplay choices that make for a better D&D game, and let the mechanical and ad hoc lore decisions made for a card game stay over in the card game.

All 100% IMO of course, I respect people who want to play in a more pure and accurate MtG setting, it just doesn't appeal to me as much because of all the work and gameplay problems that such adherence introduces to the RPG side of things.

[CantigThimble]

I liked how Kamigawa had the more lawful types side with gods who were messing up the world, while the mercenary types saved it. I loved the Moonfolk (https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3A%22Moonfolk%22), but what I liked was a bunch of rabbit ladies who weren't sexy playboy bunnies. I don't know how to make a bunch of flying wizards that bounce lands even make sense in D&D. I loved all the animal people in that though. Nezumi, Orochi, and Kitsune humanoids, all chillin with human and spirit allies. I guess Orochi could be Lizardfolk easily enough, but the Ratfolk and Fox Abjurers don't have easy counterparts that I know of.

The most common flavor explanation for returning land to hand is obscuring, flooding or otherwise de-exploring land. I think what the Soratami (moonfolk) did was something like bathing the land in fog from their cloud-cities to use it's power for themselves. The closest effects in D&D are things like Mirage Arcane or Control Weather.

In practice I might give them good int, a fly speed or perhaps the ability to walk on fog/clouds. An innate fog cloud spell or other affinity for illusion magic would fit well.

[CharacterIV]

Hmm... not bad, but I see an issue with races... Innistrad only has, in terms of likely to not be broken races, humans.

Shifter base might be satisfactory for werewolves. It's kind of a short sell, as most of the Werewolves became like 4/4 at least when they transformed, so just some basic claws/bites don't really sell the upgrade in power. In 4E, near the end, I really enjoyed the Vampire Class they made. Dunno why, it just struck a chord with me. So that could work in that regard.

So it's a fair point, but I think they fudged on Ravnica, too. I don't recall dwarves having any real representation in Ravnica, but they have room there in D&D Ravnica. At least not like Kaladesh, where they were pretty heavily represented. There may be some Boros dwarves I'm forgetting? No half-orcs either, and I'm pretty sure the only Halflings to ever really show up with Lorwyn's Kithkin, right?

Lorwyn would be neat. It had very solid flavor. Not my favorite kind of flavor, the Fey-centric angle, but I admit it was very well conceived.

[Ventruenox]

This is probably a minority view, likely based on nostalgia. I had always considered the continent of Sarpadia 170 AR to be rife with D&D campaign potential. It was large enough for exploration, precarious enough for the social pillar of PC actions to have actual consequences to the kingdoms, and enough strife for combat to be a regular occurrence.

Yes, I am talking about the Fallen Empires set. Laugh if you must, but for a low level campaign setting with a classic D&D feel, there is a lot that can be played out here.

[Copper_Dragon]

This is probably a minority view, likely based on nostalgia. I had always considered the continent of Sarpadia 170 AR to be rife with D&D campaign potential. It was large enough for exploration, precarious enough for the social pillar of PC actions to have actual consequences to the kingdoms, and enough strife for combat to be a regular occurrence.

Yes, I am talking about the Fallen Empires set. Laugh if you must, but for a low level campaign setting with a classic D&D feel, there is a lot that can be played out here.

I agree! I loved the Fallen Empires cards. They were oozing with flavor... just disappointing as far as power level in MtG. Not many made it into my decks, but I can't tell you how many of my mid-late 90's character sheets had Fallen Empires cards taped to them as "character portraits."

[JackPhoenix]

Hmm... not bad, but I see an issue with races... Innistrad only has, in terms of likely to not be broken races, humans.

There's nothing wrong with human-only game. And the semi-official Innistrad supplement present humans from different lands as different races (though they are pretty much just variant humans with the feat pre-selected).

[Vulsutyr]

Am I missing something or has no one mentioned the Plane Shift articles?!? The easiest way to play would be to set your campaign in one of those worlds. Maybe OP used Plane Shift: Zendikar, but they didn't mention it.

These planes have been released as Plane Shift articles: Zendikar, Innistrad, Kaladesh, Amonkhet, Ixalan, and Dominaria.

I think Amonkhet has the best content personally. Lots of crunch there and a well defined story.

[Vogie]

The Amonkhet Storyline (https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/amonkhet/story) plays out the most like a campaign - the 8 Short stories in the link would lend themselves quite easily to a campaign setting.

The Ixalan setting (https://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planes/ixalan) actually has a mini-campaign available for free on DMsGuild (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/228662/X-MARKS-THE-SPOT-A-Plane-Shift-Ixalan-Adventure), which has nothing to do with the main story, but is still fun.

[TheExplosiveRog]

Am I missing something or has no one mentioned the Plane Shift articles?!? The easiest way to play would be to set your campaign in one of those worlds. Maybe OP used Plane Shift: Zendikar, but they didn't mention it.

These planes have been released as Plane Shift articles: Zendikar, Innistrad, Kaladesh, Amonkhet, Ixalan, and Dominaria.

I think Amonkhet has the best content personally. Lots of crunch there and a well defined story.

You actually are right! I used PS: Zendikar, and my Ravnica game is using the Guildmaster's guide.

[TheExplosiveRog]

Hello again everyone! I have decided on what plane I Will use next. Mirrodin. But my question is now, which version should I use? Pre-Phyrexia (Mirrodin, Darksteel, and Fith Dawn) with major villain being Memnarch, Mid/Post-Phyrexia (Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin Besieged, and New Phyrexia) with the villains being the Praetors (except maybe Urabrask)?

[GreyBlack]

Hello again everyone! I have decided on what plane I Will use next. Mirrodin. But my question is now, which version should I use? Pre-Phyrexia (Mirrodin, Darksteel, and Fith Dawn) with major villain being Memnarch, Mid/Post-Phyrexia (Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin Besieged, and New Phyrexia) with the villains being the Praetors (except maybe Urabrask)?

Pre-Phyrexia to me would be most interesting; having a plane made entirely of artifact would be an interesting challenge in 5e.

[TheExplosiveRog]

Pre-Phyrexia to me would be most interesting; having a plane made entirely of artifact would be an interesting challenge in 5e.

Agreed. But New Phyrexia also has that, technically.

[GreyBlack]

Agreed. But New Phyrexia also has that, technically.

Yeah but that's also dealing with the color wheel _and_ the artifact stuff. Deal with the the smaller problem first, then the bigger problem second. Especially because 5e can't really replicate the color wheel.

[Mongobear]

Kaladesh would a good Eberron clone for introducing Warforged.

Lorwyn is perfect for D&D, as it was already inhabited by a lot of very similar races.

Alara would be a personal favorite, just because of its unique structure.

Dominaria would be pretty good for a generic setting. Not a whole lot about it was to out of the Realms of d&d lore. (Was this the same plane as Kamahl/Phage/Chainer/Laquatus way back during the Odyssey/Onslaught blocks? If not, whatever that plane is called would be good as well.)

Tarkir/Amonkhet would be cool as well. Not many pre-existing settings with an Egyptian or Middle Eastern theme.

Pretty much all of them could be done easily enough. The hard part would be maps and figuring out what the PCs are in the grand scheme. Are they just 1/1 creatures who eventually grow up and become the "Legendary Creatures" who help/foil the Planeswalkers, or are they the actual Planeswalkers themselves?

[noob]

or heck the players might be artificers/wizards that are not planeswalkers nor creatures like mishra(who exists as a vanguard character that is like two times better for creature based offence decks than planeswalkers due to having the power to double the damage of all the creatures in his control)
The ability to place/explore lands and summon creatures is not caused by being a planeswalker: being a planeswalker is more some sort of power to travel through planes some people gets.
So you could make a crossover where mtg turns lasts a few days and where people can use mtg magic if they have enough influence and control lands(occupy or wathever) and where people have dnd class levels.

[Talyn]

The Zendikar world seems like it would be a fantastic setting for a D&D campaign, but I'd probably strip most of the 'planeswalker' stuff out - just take the setting and the backstory.

[TheExplosiveRog]

Kaladesh would a good Eberron clone for introducing Warforged.

Lorwyn is perfect for D&D, as it was already inhabited by a lot of very similar races.

Alara would be a personal favorite, just because of its unique structure.

Dominaria would be pretty good for a generic setting. Not a whole lot about it was to out of the Realms of d&d lore. (Was this the same plane as Kamahl/Phage/Chainer/Laquatus way back during the Odyssey/Onslaught blocks? If not, whatever that plane is called would be good as well.)

Tarkir/Amonkhet would be cool as well. Not many pre-existing settings with an Egyptian or Middle Eastern theme.

Pretty much all of them could be done easily enough. The hard part would be maps and figuring out what the PCs are in the grand scheme. Are they just 1/1 creatures who eventually grow up and become the "Legendary Creatures" who help/foil the Planeswalkers, or are they the actual Planeswalkers themselves?

The legendary bit, but if they obtain planar travel spells they could be considered planeswalkers.

[TheExplosiveRog]

Yeah but that's also dealing with the color wheel _and_ the artifact stuff. Deal with the the smaller problem first, then the bigger problem second. Especially because 5e can't really replicate the color wheel.

I personally show with the schools of magic.

White is Abjuration
Blue is Illusion
Black is Necromancy
Red is Evocation
Green is Transmutation

Conjuration is in all colors, Divination and Enchantment would technically work in Blue but I chose Illusion since it shows up most. And yeah, I know some spells overlap (Counterspell is blue in magic, but I show it as white in this...) but it works best so there is no confusion.

[noob]

I personally show with the schools of magic.

White is Abjuration
Blue is Illusion
Black is Necromancy
Red is Evocation
Green is Transmutation

Conjuration is in all colors, Divination and Enchantment would technically work in Blue but I chose Illusion since it shows up most. And yeah, I know some spells overlap (Counterspell is blue in magic, but I show it as white in this...) but it works best so there is no confusion.

you can also put the base dnd spells out of the color system and have a second spellcasting system based on the colours where you tap the lands you own for mtg spells(so you more or less need to be a noble or to be high ranking)

[GreyBlack]

I personally show with the schools of magic.

White is Abjuration
Blue is Illusion
Black is Necromancy
Red is Evocation
Green is Transmutation

Conjuration is in all colors, Divination and Enchantment would technically work in Blue but I chose Illusion since it shows up most. And yeah, I know some spells overlap (Counterspell is blue in magic, but I show it as white in this...) but it works best so there is no confusion.

Problem is that Protection From is in all colors (abjuration), White has mind control stuff, Green and White get enough destruction spells to qualify for Evocation, etc. Point being that there's more malleability in the color wheel than just X school is Y color.

Rather, I would see it better if there were a full on Planeswalker class, with each color being its own subclass. Alternatively, every long rest, you can attune to a given number of colors: the amount of Mana you get from the class determines how many you can attune to. Take the three big deck archetypes (Timmy/Johnny/Spike), rename them, and turn them into subclasses.

[noob]

Problem is that Protection From is in all colors (abjuration), White has mind control stuff, Green and White get enough destruction spells to qualify for Evocation, etc. Point being that there's more malleability in the color wheel than just X school is Y color.

Rather, I would see it better if there were a full on Planeswalker class, with each color being its own subclass. Alternatively, every long rest, you can attune to a given number of colors: the amount of Mana you get from the class determines how many you can attune to. Take the three big deck archetypes (Timmy/Johnny/Spike), rename them, and turn them into subclasses.
That does not fit mtg lore.
planeswalker is the ability to travel through planes and/or some sort of divine spark and not a training for learning to use mana or cast spells(which is a thing that even some creatures can do).
Mishra was an artificer that could tap lands and summon armies but was surely not a planeswalker at all and is much stronger than modern planeswalker(the ones with the ability to travel through planes instead of the divine spark that gives op insane hax powers Urza got which is the old concept of planeswalker).

[JackPhoenix]

I personally show with the schools of magic.

White is Abjuration
Blue is Illusion
Black is Necromancy
Red is Evocation
Green is Transmutation

Conjuration is in all colors, Divination and Enchantment would technically work in Blue but I chose Illusion since it shows up most. And yeah, I know some spells overlap (Counterspell is blue in magic, but I show it as white in this...) but it works best so there is no confusion.

Tried that, rejected it almost immediately. It does not work. D&D magic schools do not map to MtG colors at all, except necromancy, and that one doesn't cover all black color can do.

[GreyBlack]

That does not fit mtg lore.
planeswalker is the ability to travel through planes and/or some sort of divine spark and not a training for learning to use mana or cast spells(which is a thing that even some creatures can do).
Mishra was an artificer that could tap lands and summon armies but was surely not a planeswalker at all and is much stronger than modern planeswalker(the ones with the ability to travel through planes instead of the divine spark that gives op insane hax powers Urza got which is the old concept of planeswalker).

Rename it as you will. I simply grabbed a name from lore. Semantics do not an argument make.

We could instead call it a "flufflebuttmonger" and it makes the same difference. We should create a magic user in the same concept of the mages in MTG.

Maybe call it a Magician? People who can conjure based on the magic they are attuned to? We could make them an actual, honest to goodness summoning class, and make their "cantrip" basic attack the ability to attack with a Summoned creature based on level and the Color you're attuned to.

[TheExplosiveRog]

you can also put the base dnd spells out of the color system and have a second spellcasting system based on the colours where you tap the lands you own for mtg spells(so you more or less need to be a noble or to be high ranking)

Yeah, but that kinda ruins the system. For example, for all we know Garruk isn't any noble, or owns any land. It would make him, by that sense, unable to cast spells.

[noob]

Yeah, but that kinda ruins the system. For example, for all we know Garruk isn't any noble, or owns any land. It would make him, by that sense, unable to cast spells.

Is garruk a vanguard character or playable in any way in mtg or use land based magic in the lore (and not just dnd Druidism)?
Also high ranking is a possibility(like for example the hero that inspire a resistance or one of the best tactician around or someone in a vast stretch of untamed forest with only beasts(you are the highest ranking by virtue of being the only inhabitant of the place))
Being a planeswalker does not means you are necessarily using land magic either.
(in fact the planeswalker cards themselves spends no mana once cast suggesting they are not using land magic at all)

[GreyBlack]

Is garruk a vanguard character or playable in any way in mtg or use land based magic in the lore (and not just dnd Druidism)?
Also high ranking is a possibility(like for example the hero that inspire a resistance or one of the best tactician around or someone in a vast stretch of untamed forest with only beasts(you are the highest ranking by virtue of being the only inhabitant of the place))
Being a planeswalker does not means you are necessarily using land magic either.
(in fact the planeswalker cards themselves spends no mana once cast suggesting they are not using land magic at all)

I thought the implication was that the planeswalker cards did? From what I understand, a planeswalker card is the equivalent of another player sitting down at the table, and their various abilities are the players casting spells, presumably by the same means that you are.

[noob]

I thought the implication was that the planeswalker cards did? From what I understand, a planeswalker card is the equivalent of another player sitting down at the table, and their various abilities are the players casting spells, presumably by the same means that you are.

Does not looks like that since loyalty is the resource used by planeswalkers and it is their hit points.
So it is probably closer to blood magic or they use their very will to fight as a resource or something like that.

[Aelyn]

Does not looks like that since loyalty is the resource used by planeswalkers and it is their hit points.
So it is probably closer to blood magic or they use their very will to fight as a resource or something like that.

Not quite. The players in MTG represent generic Planeswalkers getting into a fight. When you cast a Planeswalker spell (i.e. a Planeswalker card), it represents you casting a spell asking them to aid you. They show up and fight on your side, using a few specific spells (and personal abilities.) Because they're the ones casting their spells, it doesn't cost you mana - it's their manabonds which are being used, after all. Their spells still cost mana, but it's not mana generated by your lands.

The idea is that they like you, and there are some things they enjoy and can do easily (plus abilities) and things which are harder to do which they're doing as a favour (minus abilities). When they're damaged in combat, it annoys / angers them, represented by them losing loyalty. Eventually they hit 0 or less loyalty and decide that you're not worth it, represented in game by them going to the graveyard.

[noob]

Not quite. The players in MTG represent generic Planeswalkers getting into a fight. When you cast a Planeswalker spell (i.e. a Planeswalker card), it represents you casting a spell asking them to aid you. They show up and fight on your side, using a few specific spells (and personal abilities.) Because they're the ones casting their spells, it doesn't cost you mana - it's their manabonds which are being used, after all. Their spells still cost mana, but it's not mana generated by your lands.

The idea is that they like you, and there are some things they enjoy and can do easily (plus abilities) and things which are harder to do which they're doing as a favour (minus abilities). When they're damaged in combat, it annoys / angers them, represented by them losing loyalty. Eventually they hit 0 or less loyalty and decide that you're not worth it, represented in game by them going to the graveyard.

It is not necessarily true: most vanguard characters are not planeswalkers so if the player plays one of those then he is not a generic planeswalker by virtue of not being a planeswalker at all.
Land based magic is a different skill from planeswalking.
Furthermore summoned planeswalkers abilities works like creature abilities: a few specific abilities they use over and over which does not fits land based magic as done by most other land magic users.

[Aelyn]

It is not necessarily true: most vanguard characters are not planeswalkers so if the player plays one of those then he is not a generic planeswalker by virtue of not being a planeswalker at all.
Land based magic is a different skill from planeswalking.
Furthermore summoned planeswalkers abilities works like creature abilities: a few specific abilities they use over and over which does not fits land based magic as done by most other land magic users.
Vanguard was only ever an optional game type experiment which hasn't been a part of the game for a long time (20 years in paper, 10 for an online-only format), and the lore has updated multiple times since then, so I'm not sure why you're referring to them.

Players don't play as specific characters now, and that was never the default assumption even back then. You may as well say that in D&D, you play with specific characters from fiction, just because you can build Drizzt, Black Widow, or Thorin Oakenshield reasonably well using game rules. The standard assumptions and lore for MTG is that you are playing an unnamed, non-specific planeswalker.

Yes, planeswalker cards have a specific set of abilities; it would be completely impractical to have a card that had the sheer number of options available to a player. That doesn't mean that, in lore, the planeswalkers summoned are using a different type of magic than anything or anyone else, including the players.

The point I was making is that loyalty does not directly represent a resource that they're using to cast spells like you claim; it just represents their willingness to fight alongside you. It has absolutely no reflection on how they're casting their spells.