Giant battle

[Generic_PC]

In the campaign I am DMing the city that the PCs are in is about to be put under siege and I am planning to (try to) have them defend a small (10-30 ft) breach in the wall alone or with some backup. I am trying to figure out how to make the battle fun for them instead of just being:
Me "You kill the soldier, another one takes it's place"
PC "I attack it" *rolls dice* *kills soldier*
Me "You killed the soldier, another one takes it's place"

Any suggestions?
Note: this will probably be a long siege, the city is being attacked by a HUGE army, and the PCs will definitely be fighting for multiple days.

[Dr. Weasel]

Don't make the PCs take part in the largescale warfare as anything but commanders or groups. Like you say, it won't be fun for them to just kill big groups of mooks.

So either give them something to do to skirt the fringes of combat and do the important things (off the badguys' casters/leader) themselves or give them control of groups of their own (Some archers or area-damage casters or nice, balanced PC-party-type groups)

[Dode]

Have the army try to bullrush and overrun them en masse?
Spells that modify the terrain?
Summonings that appear behind them?
Sculpt Stone on the walls?
Siege equipment on both sides?

[Guy_Whozevl]

They may also be used to seize important locations or secure something valuable that will aid they army they are fighting with. Actually, you might want to consider the Battle at Azure City is OotS as a source of ideas; Roy takes on Xykon, Haley attempts to stop Redcloak, etc. The party could fight some mooks, but focus on BBEGs and generals.

[Kyeudo]

In a real siege, there are only a few reasons to hold a true breach in the walls. These are:

A) Holding until wall can be fixed. Very rare in real life, but in a fantasy game like D&D a wall can be patched with a Wall of Stone spell, Fabricate, or Stone Shape, so its possible.

B) Holding until everyone can fall back to a different stategic position, such as the keep. If a wall is breached, troops on the walls could be caught between forces inside and outside and anniliated. A breach would only need held until a mass retreat to a better position is possible.

C) Last ditch hold out. Its either hold untill rescue/victory comes or you die, and the breach is the best place to try it. Very heroic last stand type deal. Not very successful.

To make a breach fun, you'd need them to initialy hold against a moderate number of mooks while the enemy brings forward its shock troops, like Ogres or heavy calvary. The enemy clears out for a bit to let the heavies do their jobs, but once the heavies fall its back to the grind. Before the "An enemy steps forward, you kill him, repeat" sets back in, either have the wall fixed, the retreat call sound, or the calvalry show up.

Alternatively, give the PCs the order to lead a counter attack away from the walls. Its should sound heroic and suicidal. Make their actions come out awesome and heroic.

Either way, the PCs will definately need whatever form of support their little castle can reasonably provide, whether thats a handful of conscripts to a troop of paladins and a couple of clerics as medics. These guys are there to take the punishment and die the heroic deaths the PCs don't want to die. Don't roll for them, just narrate them.

[Idea Man]

If they are only fifth level or so, waves are good. Give each wave a gimmick; bull rush, overrun, mounted or monstrous troops, that kind of thing. If they're a bit higher, gloss over the battle details until the enemy's dam-breaker shows up; giant(s), potent wizard and guards, eye of fear and flame (make sure to remove fear the party first, you just want them to stand out as the heroes).

My two cents. Spend them wisely. :smallbiggrin:

[Firefingers]

Another option is to consider something like NWN:hordes of the underdarks seige style.

Give them a few waves at the breech (3-5 different waves different monster setups each time to test them) and then have them relieved by normal soldiers or the breech repaired with a cry of "They are in the city." and have the PC's moving through the city clearing out the enemies stealth troops/elite infantry units as this is a job they are better suited too

[AslanCross]

I'm planning a siege scenario in my campaign as well, but before the actual siege the PCs get to do a couple of commando missions against two of the four divisions that are being sent their way. They only have time to disable two divisions, the remaining two will be much stronger than if they'd been hit earlier.

In NWN2, a major event towards the end of the game is a keep siege. The PC can take two companions and some mooks to take out the bridges that the enemy will be crossing. Later that evening the PC, two companions and some recruits have to hold the wall as siege towers come in. Siege Towers are a good way of breaking down the advance into encounters. All the while, arrows whiz through the air and artillery pounds both sides. After that, the gate gets breached and you have to hold the courtyard as the boss comes walking in. Fun stuff.

You could give the PCs the option to sneak (or charge) the rear lines of the enemy and take out important stuff, such as siege engines, caster artillery or commanders. The Heroes of Battle book gives a lot of helpful suggestions on how a battlefield scenario might play out. Keep in mind that the PCs shouldn't have to do the exact same thing as the foot soldiers on their side. The PCs should be given a heroic task to do.

[hippie_dwarf]

Give the PC's some control over troops, but not all of them. Make their tactical desions affect the battle as a whole. If you want the battle to be won/lost, make their decisions count to how quickly and easily they win/lose.

I'm also a fan of them having to kill the Giant or summoned monster in the courtyard.

[Starsinger]

I suppose Dynasty Warriors style "charge through the enemy soldiers, wasting them in the face until you find a commander" doesn't work? Maybe restricting the rules on moving and full attacks/casting spells? That's worked for our group in the past.

[Anxe]

Either have the PCs take part in a commando like attack on the enemy, or use Green Ronin's rules from their book Testament. Those rules work really well for large-scale battles. They're far too long to post on here though.

[Generic_PC]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I think I am going to have them do various commando things as that sounds like it would be the most fun.

[Crow]

I suppose Dynasty Warriors style "charge through the enemy soldiers, wasting them in the face until you find a commander" doesn't work? Maybe restricting the rules on moving and full attacks/casting spells? That's worked for our group in the past.

This will be the most fun for your players.

Mow through the mooks. Duel the badasses.

[RTGoodman]

You should definitely check out the Heroes of Battle book if you can find it. It has all sorts of rules for large-scale combat, siege warfare, and things like that.

One of the best ideas that it talks about (and that's actually used "Red Hand of Doom") is the Victory Point system. Basically, figure out a list of "objectives" and put them in order of importance. Give them each a point value, and then figure out the minimum needed for the battle to be a success for the good guys. If the PCs can facilitate enough of the activities, they get the VPs for them, and then if they have enough, they win the battle.

For example, the adventurers may take out the giants attacking the walls (4 VP), but they couldn't take out the division of hobgoblins fast enough to keep the temple in the city from being destroyed (so they don't gain 4 more). But, if they manage to stop the dragon rampaging around the castle keep, they can pick up 6 more VPs and maybe stand a chance of winning the battle despite some failures.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Actually, ignore all the suggestions above. They are terribly misinformed. Before some good suggestions are made, can you tell us which PC's will be there, levels, major items, etc.?