Total War

[Anteros]

Anyone else playing the new Total War? Or any of the older ones I guess. I just picked it up and it's my first Total War game so the learning curve has been ridiculous, but I'm enjoying it. I got my first victory as Liu Bei. I'm not sure about replayability, and I'm sure I'd get annihilated by series vets in online mode, but I enjoyed the game so I'll probably pick up other games in the series.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've been struggling to pick a faction to start with! They're all SO COOL! :smallcool:

[Resileaf]

Total War is my favorite game series. I play pretty much all the games, except the Risk-style map of Shogun and Medieval. Doing a Medieval 2 game atm, as Venice.

I'm going to be doing a Three Kingdoms campaign eventually, but I might wait a bit for DLC, see what factions are added and what gameplay changes are done.

[Anteros]

I've been struggling to pick a faction to start with! They're all SO COOL! :smallcool:

Liu Bei is the "good guy" of the story, so you'd probably enjoy him the most given that you typically enjoy those types of characters.

[Olinser]

Haven't picked up 3K yet, which is what I think you're referring to, although I definitely plan to.

Currently I'm finishing getting 100% achievements in Total War: Warhammer 2 and then I'll pick up 3K. Anybody wants to do a few multiplayer battles in Total Warhammer 2 let me know, I need a few more wins for the achievements :P

It's funny how the best Warhammer Fantasy game came out only because Games Workshop burned the franchise to the ground with the garbage fire that was End Times and didn't care about the license anymore.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Liu Bei is the "good guy" of the story, so you'd probably enjoy him the most given that you typically enjoy those types of characters.
I know, that's what the advertising WANTS you to think, but he was quick to betray his bosses when it secured him an advantage, and tried to smash a baby (his own SON, I might add) in a fit of pique. :smallamused:

Honestly, the more I look at them, the more I like guys like Kong Rong and the Yellow Turbans! :smalltongue:

[Resileaf]

I know, that's what the advertising WANTS you to think, but he was quick to betray his bosses when it secured him an advantage, and tried to smash a baby (his own SON, I might add) in a fit of pique. :smallamused:

Honestly, the more I look at them, the more I like guys like Kong Rong and the Yellow Turbans! :smalltongue:

Like everything in history, things are complicated about everyone. Liu Bei is verifiably the only important warlord of the time who did not commit massacres when he took over places, though. That's why so many people were willing to follow him when he was pursued by Cao Cao.

Sometimes, that's the best you can get when it comes to getting a good guy in ancient history.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I know, I'm being facetious. :smallbiggrin:

[Resileaf]

I have failed to recognize sarcasm. My shame is immeasurable.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

As the Shogun's men once said, "SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!" :smallfurious:

I kid, of course, you're cool! :smallwink:

I gotta say, Three Kingdoms has to be the prettiest Total War game I've ever played. Graphics normally aren't something I pay attention to in gaming (I mean, most of us are still playing Medieval II! :smalltongue:), but Three Kingdoms is GORGEOUS! I'm kind of torn between Romance and Records modes. Most of the forums I've looked in seem to prefer Records mode for better balance and stuff, which I find compelling, especially since I think my most frustrating Total War experience has been with the Warhammer ones, but the times I've peeked at the start of a game in Romance mode (playing the first battle and maybe taking territory or two for most of the factions) have been fun, especially watching the duels! :smallcool:

[Corvus]

I've played Rome 1 & 2, Medieval 1 & 2, Warhammer 1 & 2, Thrones of Britannia and Empire and now 3K.

It has some good points (such as improved diplomacy) and they have fixed up the minor settlement/siege system that suffered a downgrade in recent games, but it also suffers from the boring end game grind that happens to most TW games. 3K is worse in this regards as it is monotonous as well - given it its a monocultural setting there are very few actual troop types and so most battles seem to be a clone of the other. At least with other titles you could expect some different battles as they had a lot more unit types. WH is of course the pinnacle of that given a skaven army fights far different to a high elf army or a dwarf army or a bretonnian army. In 3K all armies just fight the same as each other really.

[Inarius]

I've been working through it and enjoying it pretty well. I managed to wind up with a non aggression pact with one of the 2 other factions that became emperor. normally that doesn't mean anything but Sun Jian had a righteous personality which apparently means he never betrays deals. That let me basically mob Lu Bu down while ignoring my entire southern border until Sun Jian croaked of old age.

The faction leaders personality thing really does make for some interesting situations. The sneaky ones are always to be dealt with cautiously but sometimes you just have to hope it will play out in your favor if you're pressed on multiple sides.

Once it gets to the last stages of the endgame though where you have to capture all of the Imperial capitals it can kind of drag depending on where those capitals wind up getting placed.

[Anteros]

I do have to admit that this is the first grand strategy game I've ever played where diplomacy actually seems to matter and work correctly. Giving the faction leaders different personalities is brilliant, although I worry it hurts replayability since you'll always try to ally with the same people. I wish the game had a shuffle option to move the factions around, or perhaps a random mode. I'd also really like the option to create a custom leader like you could in the old Romance of the Three Kingdoms games.

[Resileaf]

I'm starting to think I might not be as good at the game as I previously believed. I'm finding that playing on hard is a bit problematic. Maybe I'm not aggressive enough in my expansion.

[Anteros]

As the Shogun's men once said, "SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!" :smallfurious:

I kid, of course, you're cool! :smallwink:

I gotta say, Three Kingdoms has to be the prettiest Total War game I've ever played. Graphics normally aren't something I pay attention to in gaming (I mean, most of us are still playing Medieval II! :smalltongue:), but Three Kingdoms is GORGEOUS! I'm kind of torn between Romance and Records modes. Most of the forums I've looked in seem to prefer Records mode for better balance and stuff, which I find compelling, especially since I think my most frustrating Total War experience has been with the Warhammer ones, but the times I've peeked at the start of a game in Romance mode (playing the first battle and maybe taking territory or two for most of the factions) have been fun, especially watching the duels! :smallcool:

I think Romance mode is a lot more fun personally. Balance is all over the place anyway, so I don't think it even matters. Once you get the Imperial units everything else is a joke. The fun thing about the Three Kingdoms era to me is all of the "heroes" and notable figures running around and Records mode misses out on most of that.


I'm starting to think I might not be as good at the game as I previously believed. I'm finding that playing on hard is a bit problematic. Maybe I'm not aggressive enough in my expansion.

I've played a bit with the Legendary difficulty and the battles themselves are ok, but it seems like the whole map just instantly allies against you and all runs at you at once. There have been points where I've had legitimately 20+ enemy armies attacking me at once, even during the early game. I was playing as Dong Zhou though so maybe that's just historically accurate (although they sure don't gang up on him like that when I play other factions!) I may try a legendary Sun Jian or Liu Bei run and see how it goes. I'm betting I get annihilated pretty quickly.

[Anteros]

So I tried out Legendary last night and I was right that the whole map just mindlessly goes to war with you. That said, I'm not sure what Legendary even does in battles because I'm still just rolling right over the AI even when they outnumber me 2 or 3 to 1. They should really work on this AI. There have been times where I messed up my deployment and left a wide open path between my archers and their cavalry...and they just charge into my pikes instead. It's actually ridiculous how bad the AI is once you figure out that the system is just paper rock scissors of cav>bows>pike>cav. They should at least try to prioritize the units they're strong against.

[marthasimons2]

I played the old version of the game, very exciting

[Corsair14]

I play the hell out of WH Total war. Currently running a Wood Elf campaign on mortal empires.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Something I've been wondering about for Three Kingdoms is retinue composition. Splitting up your forces into groups of 6 each led by a hero/general (unless you're playing as Yuan Shao or I think Sun Jian too) is pretty neat, as it forces me to think smaller in terms of armies when I'm used to not sending armies into the field UNLESS they are 20 units strong. Being outnumbered has scared me ever since Medieval II's Mongols.

I did find an article (https://www.pcinvasion.com/total-war-three-kingdoms-guide-beginners/) that offered these suggestions for retinues for each type (on Romance Mode), and was curious what you folks, the forum experts, thought of them:

Commanders (with fire arrows skill) – 3x archers plus either 3x melee infantry or 3x melee cavalry

Vanguards – 3x shock cavalry plus 3x spearmen; alternatively, just field 3x shock cavalry and 3x melee cavalry if your faction has a lot of discounts

Champions (with spearmen armor skill) – 6x spearmen

Sentinels (with fire arrows skill) – 3x archers plus 3x melee infantry; alternatively, have 4x infantry and 2x archers

Strategists (with fire arrows and flaming shot skills) – 5x archers plus 1x trebuchet

[Inarius]

Something I've been wondering about for Three Kingdoms is retinue composition. Splitting up your forces into groups of 6 each led by a hero/general (unless you're playing as Yuan Shao or I think Sun Jian too) is pretty neat, as it forces me to think smaller in terms of armies when I'm used to not sending armies into the field UNLESS they are 20 units strong. Being outnumbered has scared me ever since Medieval II's Mongols.

I did find an article (https://www.pcinvasion.com/total-war-three-kingdoms-guide-beginners/) that offered these suggestions for retinues for each type (on Romance Mode), and was curious what you folks, the forum experts, thought of them:

Commanders (with fire arrows skill) – 3x archers plus either 3x melee infantry or 3x melee cavalry

Vanguards – 3x shock cavalry plus 3x spearmen; alternatively, just field 3x shock cavalry and 3x melee cavalry if your faction has a lot of discounts

Champions (with spearmen armor skill) – 6x spearmen

Sentinels (with fire arrows skill) – 3x archers plus 3x melee infantry; alternatively, have 4x infantry and 2x archers

Strategists (with fire arrows and flaming shot skills) – 5x archers plus 1x trebuchet

Its a bit more complex than that, you also really should take into account what other generals are in your group. For instance if you have a Strategist you can ignore archers on your non strategists and probably should because you wont have enough of a frontline otherwise. Similarly Crossbows (more range and armor piercing) on strategists don't suck as an option especially if you lack someone with scare or a Vanguard in the army with roar of the beast.

Of course this kind of goes out the window once you can support armies with emperor units. Just build like 8 or so of the infantry and fill the rest of your slots with cavalry and ranged units.

[Anteros]

I prefer a strategist with archers and trebuchets paired with a sentinel. Strategist buffs ranged units enormously and sentinels are the best duelists in the game and can buff infantry with 50% dodge, which is huge. Vanguard is my preference to round things out with cavalry shock troops since they fill the same role.

Of course this all goes out the window if you have uniques since I feel obligated to just use them. Also at least one general with night battle and one with reach is completely mandatory for every army.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

By "Emperor Units" do you mean specifically the Protectors of Heaven and Defenders of Earth, or do you include the various "Dragons" units you can unlock from the tech tree?

[Inarius]

I prefer a strategist with archers and trebuchets paired with a sentinel. Strategist buffs ranged units enormously and sentinels are the best duelists in the game and can buff infantry with 50% dodge, which is huge. Vanguard is my preference to round things out with cavalry shock troops since they fill the same role.

Of course this all goes out the window if you have uniques since I feel obligated to just use them. Also at least one general with night battle and one with reach is completely mandatory for every army.

I tend to try and have a strategist in every group as well since ranged units are so good and the extra ammo cunning gives is great. Other than that I usually have a sentinel or champion for dueling and a commander or vanguard for the third slot. Commanders are crazy good with their defensive buffs and their melee cavalry is devastating to archers since you can get them up to 80% missile block while vanguards are the much more offensive option for breaking enemy melee infantry.

Also the unique commanders are kind of more fun if you have them so I agree with that, sometimes I'll have to mix up the combos though due to personality issues but that seems to not really matter after midgame when you can stack satisfaction if you have commanders in your faction leader/heir/prime minister slots.


By "Emperor Units" do you mean specifically the Protectors of Heaven and Defenders of Earth, or do you include the various "Dragons" units you can unlock from the tech tree?

Yeah mostly the Protectors of heaven. Theyre basically a hybrid between sword and spear infantry with good damage, massive charge, high armor, and a good block chance. The Dragon units are also really good but id say the straight up infantry units are probably less useful due to being kind of redundant with the Protectors of heaven. The Azure (archers/spears) and Jade Dragon (cavalry) units are really great complimentary options though.

[Anteros]

The Defenders of Earth are completely and ridiculously broken. They may not be great against a human player since they're squishy and a human will actually maneuver their cavalry/generals to charge them even if you try to screen, but the AI is dumb as a brick and will just let you bombard them for free. It's not uncommon for one Defenders of Earth unit to have as many kills as the rest of the army combined

I've tried pretty much all of the tech tree units but they're all just complete garbage compared to the Imperial units. I don't even bother unlocking them anymore unless I want the other reform.

Balance in general doesn't seem great. I've found that no matter who I play as the same strategies remain optimal. You virtually always want the same unit compositions, and the same reforms, and usually in the same order every game. Or maybe that's just me being in a rut with my playstyle?

[NatureKing]

That was the same with Shogun, Britannia, etc tbh. The major mechanics differences have take place on the campaign map whole the units are largely homogenised, as opposed to say Warhammer or even Rome 2.

The intentional discrepancies between faction rosters there mean armies play very different. Just restrict yourself if you want.

[Resileaf]

Like it or not, the game does take place solely within China, so troop compositions would be virtually the same for everyone. Like in Shogun, you're fighting in a very secular culture that doesn't interact a lot with outsiders.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I honestly feel like when I play I'll only ever recruit one emperor unit (one PoH and one DoE) each, both to keep their SPECIAL factor and as a cost-saving measure.

[Resileaf]

Relatedly to Three Kingdoms, the blood pack is getting released soon.

Someone got inspired by Mortal Kombat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLmIMXp1Moc&pbjreload=10

[Anteros]

That was the same with Shogun, Britannia, etc tbh. The major mechanics differences have take place on the campaign map whole the units are largely homogenised, as opposed to say Warhammer or even Rome 2.

The intentional discrepancies between faction rosters there mean armies play very different. Just restrict yourself if you want.


Like it or not, the game does take place solely within China, so troop compositions would be virtually the same for everyone. Like in Shogun, you're fighting in a very secular culture that doesn't interact a lot with outsiders.

I understand all that, but it doesn't excuse stuff like having the same reform tree routes or troop compositions be optimal no matter what situation you're in. The balance just isn't great. Things like military supply or food reforms are largely worthless since it's almost impossible to run out of them anyway. Meanwhile, income reforms or ones that increase army effectiveness are universally better. The 10% bonus to replenishment is so much better than everything else on the tech tree that the only time I can imagine not making a mad dash to get it first would be in some sort of pacifist run. I'm not expecting Lui Bei's army of Orcs to face off against a pack of dragons, I'd just like for certain playstyles to not be a trillion times better than others.

Also the city building system is so pointless that I straight up don't bother with it past making sure I have enough food. Any of the income buildings are so expensive to build and fully upgrade that they would take well over 100 turns to repay their investment, and by then the game is decided. It's so much better to put your money into making an army and expanding for income than by building that it's ridiculous. It's actually completely game losing to try to upgrade your cities past a certain point on the harder difficulties. I upgrade the important or vulnerable ones to a small city just to get the wall for sieges and then never touch them again. Corruption is supposed to combat this gameplay, but by late game you're so flush with cash from military victories that it doesn't matter anyway.

Maybe everyone is already aware of all these problems, but I'm a newbie to the series. I like the game a lot, but it's just frustrating that the majority of the strategic options the game gives you are largely pointless.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Some other things I've been wondering, just idly:

Anyone use the Chinese language dialogue with subtitles instead of the English version? Did you find it enhanced your experience or made it more immersive? I thought it was a nice touch in Shogun II, but at the same time I did struggle a bit to keep up since apart from the subtitled pre-battle speeches I didn't understand what the characters on the map were saying, and it's something that got dropped in Fall of the Samurai, but Three Kingdoms gives you the choice, and I'm wondering if I should take it.

Second, an expansion of the retinues question I asked earlier, that guide I found doesn't discuss the "hybrid" classes that are exclusive to the Yellow Turbans (Healer, Veteran and Scholar), and I'm sort of wondering what each class is good at recruiting and how to build their retinues to make a Yellow Turban army.

[Anteros]

Some other things I've been wondering, just idly:

Anyone use the Chinese language dialogue with subtitles instead of the English version? Did you find it enhanced your experience or made it more immersive? I thought it was a nice touch in Shogun II, but at the same time I did struggle a bit to keep up since apart from the subtitled pre-battle speeches I didn't understand what the characters on the map were saying, and it's something that got dropped in Fall of the Samurai, but Three Kingdoms gives you the choice, and I'm wondering if I should take it.

Second, an expansion of the retinues question I asked earlier, that guide I found doesn't discuss the "hybrid" classes that are exclusive to the Yellow Turbans (Healer, Veteran and Scholar), and I'm sort of wondering what each class is good at recruiting and how to build their retinues to make a Yellow Turban army.

I found the Chinese voices to be good, but I kept missing information during battles because I simply didn't have time to read the subtitles, and there's a few screens where the subtitles don't pop up (or at least I didn't see them). The English voices are actually very good as well, so I ended up going back to them.

I can't speak to the Yellow Turban classes because I haven't bought the DLC.

[NatureKing]

I understand all that, but it doesn't excuse stuff like having the same reform tree routes or troop compositions be optimal no matter what situation you're in. The balance just isn't great. Things like military supply or food reforms are largely worthless since it's almost impossible to run out of them anyway. Meanwhile, income reforms or ones that increase army effectiveness are universally better. The 10% bonus to replenishment is so much better than everything else on the tech tree that the only time I can imagine not making a mad dash to get it first would be in some sort of pacifist run. I'm not expecting Lui Bei's army of Orcs to face off against a pack of dragons, I'd just like for certain playstyles to not be a trillion times better than others.

Also the city building system is so pointless that I straight up don't bother with it past making sure I have enough food. Any of the income buildings are so expensive to build and fully upgrade that they would take well over 100 turns to repay their investment, and by then the game is decided. It's so much better to put your money into making an army and expanding for income than by building that it's ridiculous. It's actually completely game losing to try to upgrade your cities past a certain point on the harder difficulties. I upgrade the important or vulnerable ones to a small city just to get the wall for sieges and then never touch them again. Corruption is supposed to combat this gameplay, but by late game you're so flush with cash from military victories that it doesn't matter anyway.

Maybe everyone is already aware of all these problems, but I'm a newbie to the series. I like the game a lot, but it's just frustrating that the majority of the strategic options the game gives you are largely pointless.

Most improvements to the game come with mods. Give it a few weeks once the Steam Workshop is released, and difficulty mods, which range from arbitrarily challenging, to just making various options like Military Supply actually relevant in gameplay.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've started a campaign as Cao Cao and it's been going okay so far, with two and a half commanderies under my control and my father avenged, plus formed a coalition with Yuan Shao and Liu Bei, but now I'm a bit concerned.

My next mission is to secure and rebuild Luoyang, but I'm concerned that'll set off a firestorm I can't control, since Yuan Shu has captured it, and he's got at least one substantial army passing through my lands due to a military access treaty I signed with him early on so I didn't antagonize him too early and could focus on my eastern opponents. Have I painted myself into a corner here?

Plus, the game asked me to lower the difficulty, and I'm not sure what to think about that. I've always prided myself on being able to play Normal difficulty like a big boy...

[Anteros]

The missions are just fun little things to do if you want to try following history. The bonus from them is typically small enough not to matter. You should never put yourself in a bad situation to complete a mission unless you just want to roleplay.

[NatureKing]

The missions are just fun little things to do if you want to try following history. The bonus from them is typically small enough not to matter. You should never put yourself in a bad situation to complete a mission unless you just want to roleplay.

"Not playing optimally is something you should never do".

Why would you not want to put yourself in a difficult fight? After you've painted the map once or twice, challenge games like "This is Total War" challenge from Rome 2, or by following the historical missions, and not teleporting in Total War: Warhammer 2, and by following the Chapter Objectives are actually pretty fun ways of playing the game.

[Resileaf]

"Not playing optimally is something you should never do".

Why would you not want to put yourself in a difficult fight? After you've painted the map once or twice, challenge games like "This is Total War" challenge from Rome 2, or by following the historical missions, and not teleporting in Total War: Warhammer 2, and by following the Chapter Objectives are actually pretty fun ways of playing the game.

Yeah, I find that I have more fun playing the game the way they're asking me to, if that makes sense. Completing every secondary objective makes for a fun 'historical' challenge.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's my reasoning too, especially nowadays as I feel I've generally gotten better at TW games over time. I'm just concerned that if I go to war with Yuan Shu, I'll bite off more than I can chew, since I only have one 3-retinue full stack army consisting of Cao Cao and the Xiahou boys. I'm not sure when Sima Yi or any of Wei's other famous dudes are gonna show up. And I also didn't realize your army could only have up to 3 retinues in it. Or can you add more heroes if their retinues have less than 6 units?

On the other hand, I DO have a spy in Yuan Shu's court...

[Resileaf]

That's my reasoning too, especially nowadays as I feel I've generally gotten better at TW games over time. I'm just concerned that if I go to war with Yuan Shu, I'll bite off more than I can chew, since I only have one 3-retinue full stack army consisting of Cao Cao and the Xiahou boys. I'm not sure when Sima Yi or any of Wei's other famous dudes are gonna show up. And I also didn't realize your army could only have up to 3 retinues in it. Or can you add more heroes if their retinues have less than 6 units?

On the other hand, I DO have a spy in Yuan Shu's court...

Well, my suggestion would be to play the political game. See who isn't happy with Yuan Shu's rule and slowly build a coalition against him. Build some allies that can give him trouble. Cause unrest. Bleed him white from the shadows, then strike when he's too weak to fight back.

[NatureKing]

That's my reasoning too, especially nowadays as I feel I've generally gotten better at TW games over time. I'm just concerned that if I go to war with Yuan Shu, I'll bite off more than I can chew, since I only have one 3-retinue full stack army consisting of Cao Cao and the Xiahou boys. I'm not sure when Sima Yi or any of Wei's other famous dudes are gonna show up. And I also didn't realize your army could only have up to 3 retinues in it. Or can you add more heroes if their retinues have less than 6 units?

On the other hand, I DO have a spy in Yuan Shu's court...

Cao Cao's shtick is to get people attacking another, and building rapport by spending his Unique Resource, whatever that's called. Do that. Get him enemies on the far side of the Kingdom. Break up relationships with his own factions. Make people at war with you like you. Find ways of stacking Casualty Replenishment, and abuse the Xiahou's. They're pretty broken (although not Zhao Yun/Lu Bu levels), but can rip the core out of most armies.

[Anteros]

"Not playing optimally is something you should never do".

Why would you not want to put yourself in a difficult fight? After you've painted the map once or twice, challenge games like "This is Total War" challenge from Rome 2, or by following the historical missions, and not teleporting in Total War: Warhammer 2, and by following the Chapter Objectives are actually pretty fun ways of playing the game.

Well, if someone posts asking for advice I'm not going to intentionally give bad advice on the assumption that they actually want me to make their game harder.

[NatureKing]

Well, if someone posts asking for advice I'm not going to intentionally give bad advice on the assumption that they actually want me to make their game harder.

'don't play the game you want to play' is hardly advice mate.

[Anteros]

'don't play the game you want to play' is hardly advice mate.

It's a good thing I didn't say that then isn't it? I literally said the bonuses aren't worth putting yourself in a bad situation unless you just want to.

[NatureKing]

Replace missions with This Is Total War. And you tell me to stop declaring war on everyone. Is that useful advice? Not really. Telling someone playing missions to not play missions is pretty bad advise.

[Anteros]

Replace missions with This Is Total War. And you tell me to stop declaring war on everyone. Is that useful advice? Not really. Telling someone playing missions to not play missions is pretty bad advise.

Well if you made a post saying "I don't know if it's a good idea to declare war on everyone at once, what do you guys think I should do" then I would feel justified in telling you it's a bad idea. If you made a post saying "man, I love declaring war on everyone" I wouldn't say anything.

I suppose it's possible I misunderstood the point of the original post though.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That suggestion by the game to lower the difficulty got me wondering if I should start the campaign over or something. Did the game think I wasn't conquering fast enough or something? I do admit I had some idle turns where I was waiting for a building to get built or to have enough money to spend on something, but I didn't think I was doing bad enough that I needed to play on Easy. I've always had trouble with this in TW games: unless I've got an Opening Moves guide to basically walk me through the first ten or so turns, which generally encourage a risky, aggressive start to build some breathing room in the early game, I tend to be the kind of player who hunkers down and waits to have enough money to afford full-stack armies that can auto-resolve safely. Am I doing something wrong here? :smallconfused:

[Resileaf]

At what point do they even advise you to lower the difficulty? Is it after battle? Do they just say it randomly?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I think it was at the start of a new turn about maybe 15 turns in?

[Resileaf]

Seems like a weird place to tell you to lower the difficulty. I wouldn't put much stock on it. You play the difficulty you want. Unless you're actively losing, it really doesn't matter where you're at.

[Anteros]

Idle turns are just part of the game. Sometimes you need to muster units or wait for money or whatever. I wouldn't put much stock into that notification either.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I see. Considering there seems to be a hard limit of 3 retinues per army, how do you like to build your armies? What hero/general types go well together (apart from Strategists, whom you should HAVE IN EVERY ARMY AND I LOVE THEM!)?

[Anteros]

All of the classes seem situationally useful, but Sentinels and Strategists seem to be the most objectively overpowered classes.

[Inarius]

Obviously you'll want a strategist if you can get one for an army, though at least early on you really want to make sure personalities match up.

You'll also want someone for duels, a Sentinel or Champion both fill that role fairly well. Sentinels tend to get stronger over the course of a fight while champions can be really bursty. Champions also really benefit from a strategist with the cooldown passive nearby since it affects targets in duels. Being able to spam binding fury every 20s will end a duel fairly quickly even if you don't have a great weapon. I'd recommend using your duelist to counteract enemy Vanguards as a priority, then Commanders, and leave Champions and Sentinels for last.

For the last role I'd recommend either Vanguard or Commander. Commanders are the defensive option, they get activated abilities that give 100% evasion to ranged and another that gives 100% evasion to melee so they can really ramp up the toughness of your army. Vanguards are offensive machines and they have some devastating aoe abilties that will wreck an enemies frontline. Theyre also both cavalry focused so youll have good options for cavalry to flank your opponents.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I see...I think I get why that guide recommended Commanders and Sentinels take archers in their retinue now: it's treating them as a standalone force and not assuming that they have a Strategist with them (especially since they have more defensive-focused abilities to protect those archers along with Fire Arrows). So if I have one, instead of three archers and three melee infantry or cavalry, I can have the three melee infantry AND three melee cavalry, while my strategist has all the archers.

Possibly silly question, but does the Champion's "Spearmen Armor" ability affect units with other polearms like ji or glaives? Or is does it affect ONLY spearmen? Just wondering if I can mix it up with those polearms in a Champion's retinue or if I should focus exclusively on the basic spear?

[Anteros]

I see...I think I get why that guide recommended Commanders and Sentinels take archers in their retinue now: it's treating them as a standalone force and not assuming that they have a Strategist with them (especially since they have more defensive-focused abilities to protect those archers along with Fire Arrows). So if I have one, instead of three archers and three melee infantry or cavalry, I can have the three melee infantry AND three melee cavalry, while my strategist has all the archers.

Possibly silly question, but does the Champion's "Spearmen Armor" ability affect units with other polearms like ji or glaives? Or is does it affect ONLY spearmen? Just wondering if I can mix it up with those polearms in a Champion's retinue or if I should focus exclusively on the basic spear?

I don't optimize enough to know, but it should be fairly easy to check. Just recruit a unit on a general with that skill and see if their armor is higher than normal.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

People burn the beanstalk to boil beans,
filtering them to extract juice.
The beanstalks were burnt under the cauldron,
and the beans in the cauldron wailed:
"We were originally grown from the same root;
Why should we hound each other to death with such impatience?"

The first Chapter Pack DLC for Total War: Three Kingdoms, Eight Princes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnRSGkfHpO0), has been announced and will be released on August 8th! It follows the War of the Eight Princes, as Sima Yi's kin tore the newly founded Jin Dynasty he'd made apart. Really like the trailer (that poem up there is the lyrics to the background song), it really captures the sense of grief and violence that will destroy this family and consume China!

[Leecros]

The first Chapter Pack DLC for Total War: Three Kingdoms, Eight Princes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnRSGkfHpO0), has been announced and will be released on August 8th! It follows the War of the Eight Princes, as Sima Yi's kin tore the newly founded Jin Dynasty he'd made apart. Really like the trailer (that poem up there is the lyrics to the background song), it really captures the sense of grief and violence that will destroy this family and consume China!

I'd be lying if i said that I wasn't disappointed that the first DLC for Three Kingdoms: Total War involve a campaign story that has very little to nothing to do with the Three Kingdoms storyline. I'd rather have had more factions, more story chapters within the Three Kingdoms period, and things like that...


I'll still buy it and it'll probably still be fun, but it really feels like aiming for the bullseye and throwing the dart out the window beside the dart board.

[Resileaf]

I'd be lying if i said that I wasn't disappointed that the first DLC for Three Kingdoms: Total War involve a campaign story that has very little to nothing to do with the Three Kingdoms storyline. I'd rather have had more factions, more story chapters within the Three Kingdoms period, and things like that...


I'll still buy it and it'll probably still be fun, but it really feels like aiming for the bullseye and throwing the dart out the window beside the dart board.

Eeh, can't really say it has nothing to do with it, it's the direct ending of the three kingdoms era.

[Leecros]

Eeh, can't really say it has nothing to do with it, it's the direct ending of the three kingdoms era.

The Three Kingdoms period ended with the establishment of Jin. Going into Jin's politics and problems near their end is getting into a whole other chaotic mess between the fall of the Han and rise of the Tang. It's generally called the Six Dynasties period, but it encompasses the Three Kingdoms period, Jin, The Sixteen Kingdoms period, and the Southern and Northern Dynasties.If we're going into the fall of the Jin, when do we stop?

There's so much left they could do with the Three Kingdoms period. It's just an odd choice to skip ahead.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I know Eight Princes is the hot topic right now (especially since *I* just revived this thread with a post on it!), but I got back into Shogun 2 recently and may have over-extended myself as I'm one conquest away from the dreaded Realm Divide and while I've got at least a couple of strong armies in the field, my economy is barely keeping up and I worry that the steps needed to improve it (gaining enough koku to build more buildings, waiting for new arts to be mastered, etc.) will take too long and I'll hit 1600 AD before I've conquered what I need to win.

I'm playing the Shimazu on Normal difficulty, though I'm playing as Christian so that makes it slightly more difficult. I have 19 provinces, including the entirety of Kyushu and the southern part of Honshu up to Hoki, Mimasaka and Bizen.

[Resileaf]

Well, if your armies are good enough to conquer your enemies right now, your economy will stabilize on its own when you start conquering more lands during realm divide. If you don't already have them, I highly suggest taking the trade nodes on the left side of the map. Add multiple trade ships on them, there is a slight diminishing return, but you can easily have five or six ship on a trade node and still make bank.

[hertavein]

Never Played:sigh:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, if your armies are good enough to conquer your enemies right now, your economy will stabilize on its own when you start conquering more lands during realm divide. If you don't already have them, I highly suggest taking the trade nodes on the left side of the map. Add multiple trade ships on them, there is a slight diminishing return, but you can easily have five or six ship on a trade node and still make bank.
That is something I've been attempting. I've laid claim to at least two of them, the problem is that the Yamana clan, who've been a thorn in my side since I unified Kyushu, have about a dozen fleets they use to harrass my trade routes and blockade my ports, so in the end I barely benefit from them.

That's actually the primary source of my economic woes and the reason I've steadily been going up southern Honshu rather than moving to Shikoku as I'd originally planned, because the Yamana keep throwing stacks of samurai at me and they always seem to have one more town so they're never fully eliminated as a problem. I'm dreading when I have to challenge the Uesugi. They've come to dominate northern Honshu! :smalleek:

[Resileaf]

Hmm, you'll need to scrounge up the money to make a stronger navy, then. Realm Divide involves your rivals sending full stack armies by sailing ships around your territories so they can hit softer targets. If you can't stop enemy navies right now, you're likely to get overwhelmed from behind by everyone at the same time. Even an easily defensible island like Kyushu is not going to help you in that case.
My other suggestion is to turn military buildings into economy buildings.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Hmm, you'll need to scrounge up the money to make a stronger navy, then. Realm Divide involves your rivals sending full stack armies by sailing ships around your territories so they can hit softer targets. If you can't stop enemy navies right now, you're likely to get overwhelmed from behind by everyone at the same time. Even an easily defensible island like Kyushu is not going to help you in that case.
My other suggestion is to turn military buildings into economy buildings.
To clarify, I DO have a pair of strong navies (each one consisting of 2 Sengoku Bune, 4 Medium Bune and 4 Bow Kobaya). It's just that they're currently baby-sitting the trade ships at the nodes I have, since I'm worried the Yamana will just target those next, or the Wako Pirates will. Would you recommend sending those navies to drive off the Yamana fleets and then build some more ships at the newly freed ports to beef up the trade fleets so they can protect themselves?

And I do want to build up more economic buildings, especially in towns like Iwate and Bungo, but what worries me about that is how much time it will take to build up the koku to afford those buildings, combined with the build times and the waiting for technologies to complete, especially since some of those technologies will take 10 turns or more to complete. Since it's already 1574, I'm worried that waiting will cause me to run out the clock to 1600 and I'll lose. I think I have about 104 turns left at this point.

Have I played myself into a corner here? Would it be easier for me to just restart my attempt since I spent so much time waiting to research Gunpowder Mastery to get the Advanced Firearms achievement?

Thank you again for the advice, I didn't realize just how rusty at this game I was! :smallsmile:

[Resileaf]

To clarify, I DO have a pair of strong navies (each one consisting of 2 Sengoku Bune, 4 Medium Bune and 4 Bow Kobaya). It's just that they're currently baby-sitting the trade ships at the nodes I have, since I'm worried the Yamana will just target those next, or the Wako Pirates will. Would you recommend sending those navies to drive off the Yamana fleets and then build some more ships at the newly freed ports to beef up the trade fleets so they can protect themselves?

And I do want to build up more economic buildings, especially in towns like Iwate and Bungo, but what worries me about that is how much time it will take to build up the koku to afford those buildings, combined with the build times and the waiting for technologies to complete, especially since some of those technologies will take 10 turns or more to complete. Since it's already 1574, I'm worried that waiting will cause me to run out the clock to 1600 and I'll lose. I think I have about 104 turns left at this point.

Have I played myself into a corner here? Would it be easier for me to just restart my attempt since I spent so much time waiting to research Gunpowder Mastery to get the Advanced Firearms achievement?

Thank you again for the advice, I didn't realize just how rusty at this game I was! :smallsmile:

I think you'd do better kicking the Yamana out of the trade routes. For what it's worth, the ships have to come from somewhere, so as long as you can find the port raiding ships come from, you can make a defensive line to make sure you can intercept them when they get in your territory. Removing them from play entirely will ensure they can't raid anymore as well (it will trigger Realm Divide, of course). As for the pirates, although they can spawn anywhere, they rarely have large navies, so when they do appear, you can just train a few ships and chase them away. Hell, with five trade ships per node, you can potentially make their attacks on your trade ships costly enough that you can then retake the ships they stole from you. The important thing is to make sure you've got fleets that can watch for sea invasions along the coastline, and leaving the Yamana around will just make that harder.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Could I remove the Yamana without conquering them, by using my missionaries to start Christian revolts in their lands?

[Resileaf]

Could I remove the Yamana without conquering them, by using my missionaries to start Christian revolts in their lands?

Probably, yes, but that could also take quite a while. When left in a single province, the AI usually has a single full-stack army, and they won't fall to a rebellion.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Probably, yes, but that could also take quite a while. When left in a single province, the AI usually has a single full-stack army, and they won't fall to a rebellion.

Thanks again! :smallsmile:

Some other random questions, if you don't mind: Generally how fast SHOULD I expand before nearing Realm Divide? I ask because I'm at about 114 turns approximately right now, and I'm wondering if I waited too long to get to this point by trying to get the Advanced Firearms achievement, and should have been at this point earlier.

What's the point of that "Autumn" cutscene? Is it supposed to be a motivator to get me going or something? I worry that, again, I should have been at this point BEFORE that cutscene triggered. It certainly made me panic and try to start conquering.

Would it be better for me to just field normal trade ships instead of Nanban ones? I'm starting to think that despite their power, they're just too expensive to maintain in fleets.

And would it be better to build military improvement buildings (Encampments and their upgrades) that MATCH the supplementary building in the province (Armories and Armorers, Hunting Lodges and Master Bowmakers) or ones that are different (Armories and Weaponsmiths, Armories and Master Bowmakers)? The Shimazu Heavy Gunners require an Armory and Gunsmith to recruit, but I don't think I can build both an Armory AND a Hunting Lodge in the same castle.

[Resileaf]

I honestly couldn't tell you how fast you should expand. There's an easy argument that the faster you expand, the less powerful your enemies will be, so you will have an easier time conquering them individually when the time comes, but I hate rushing like that. The biggest problem will be managing to keep control of the provinces you conquer from now on, but after Realm Divide, you shouldn't hesitate to create vassals. They'll control their lands, and they won't be subject to Realm Divide penalties. They give you tribute every turn as well, and can be traded with, so you'll get plenty of money from them.

I don,t think the autumn cutscene has a special significance, except that it happens when you start some festival, I don't remember which.

I've never played Christian, so I couldn't tell you the difference between normal and Nanban ships. I assume that Nanban ships are more heavily protected compared to normal trade ships, so if they go in a dangerous area, they could hold their own better. Potentially a good thing to use against the Yamana's raiders.

I highly suggest making improvement buildings that match any buildings already in the province. That's how you make the best specialized units.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, good news bad news time. Good news is, sending my fleets to mop up Yamana raiders did wonders for my economy! The bad news is that while I did that, the Uesugi took Kyoto and have been declared Shogun. I suppose my options are either to trigger Realm Divide and hope for the best, or just start the campaign from scratch and do things better this time around?

[Resileaf]

I didn't even know AI factions could become shogun. XD

I don't think this affects your plans at all, though. Realm Divide won't happen any differently than if the original faction was still shogun. Hell, maybe it'll prevent free armies from spawning for the Uesugi when Realm Divide starts.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, so just keep doing what I'm doing right now (keeping the Yamana at bay on land and sea while I research more tech and build two more mid-game tier armies, one for joining my current main army as it marches up Honshu to Kyoto and the second one for defending against attacks behind my lines)?

1 General's Bodyguard
2 Naginata Samurai
8 Shimazu Katana Samurai
5 Bow Samurai
4 Yari Cavalry

[Resileaf]

I personally suggest keeping lower-tier units of Ashigaru to defend your territories. They'll cost less in upkeep, and unless the enemy army is full of elite samurai, they can handle most kind of enemies you'll face. Particularly in castles, where their low morale will not be an issue.

[Anteros]

So, this is the second time I've seen you reference having empty turns while you're waiting for something to happen. In general that's a pretty bad idea in any kind of game. The turns you're doing nothing your enemies are getting an advantage. Even if you can't achieve your goals immediately you should be doing something productive in every turn. You should never just sit and wait because your opponents sure aren't.