Useful items against golems?

[Mrark]

So: we have to face a kinda huge battle against a kinda huge army of golems. Consider an almost endless budget, what do we want to defend our city?

[Psyren]

1) A moat. Can they jump/fly? If not, are they too dumb to not just walk in? Add a tunnel somewhere for supplies and you can probably hold out until reinforcements show up.

2) Special material weapons/projectiles (likely adamantine, though this will depend on the kind of golems.)

[Squire Doodad]

So: we have to face a kinda huge battle against a kinda huge army of golems. Consider an almost endless budget, what do we want to defend our city?

I don't know much about D&D, but magic seems like it generally won't work. However, depending on the type I think running a series of electric/firey caltrops should help. Using the d20srd site here.

Basically, if they are a single type then set up a series of spikes and minor obstructions (of the sort that will survive the trampling, and so probably underground machinery bits are needed) with the corresponding elemental property. If there is some level of machinery in the world, set up a series of leaky wires (or something that channels fire, or acid, etc; there's an argument to be made that if a wizard channels magic into a set of pipes then what's running through the pipes is not a magic spell, and as such should not be negated by golems) a short way in front of and in the area you want to attack them with. That should lower their speed, deal a small bit of damage and let you get more hits in before things go south.

Working on another idea, will edit shortly.

As Psyren said a moat should help, maybe line the bottom of the moat with spikes?

An idea if they are iron golems and will fall victim to a moat:
Wiring ->Moat+Spikes->have a cleric use control weather to make lightning rain down into the moat.
If they are flesh golems, maybe have the cleric make the water icy?

Also if you are high level and have a massive budget you could hypothetically make your own set of golems to guard an inner barrier.
In that case:
Wiring->Moat+Spikes w/ CW Lightning->small wall->inner ring with your golems.
If using golems, making them the corresponding type might help. If they are mostly Flesh Golems, using Iron Golems will let you hail down fire onto the battlefield, bolstering your own golems and slowing the Flesh ones.

[noob]

Put a moat with no bottom and wide enough for the golems to not just jump above.
behind there is a whole set of walls that when touched triggers traps that throw them toward the moats(in case some golems are particularly strong and so can jump more far)
then complete with utterly abundant adamantine bolt throwing animated ballistas.
also none of the golems is immune to acid or fire: they are immune to magic involving those but not to mundane acid or fire.
So if you can not have a botomless moat fill the bottom with acid.
And you can have tons of people throwing acid flasks since those (at least I believe) ignore damage reduction.
of course the most dangerous golems in a siege are cannon golems.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-cannon/
Like why are they so dextrous?

Of course massive amounts of scrolls of ice assassin to create duplicates of solar are the most useful items in this situation(because then they wish for more scrolls)

[Vizzerdrix]

Shapesand. Lots of shapesand. Turn it into ballistas that can be easily repositioned. You will end up luring out whatever is controlling them this way.

Marbles will work wonders here as well. Oddly enough, caltrops should be good too (who has ever put boots on a golem?) Maybe get those crystal caltrops the burst with acid when stepped on.

Hire a cleric of Gond (or better yet, a full on techsmith!) To turn/ rebuke them.

A few zepplins from A&EG. Use them to patrol the walls, scout, and provide fast support for when the walls are breached. Also a good position to rain artillery down from.

If you have time, hire a necromancer to control a few bullette. Use them to hit and run, and create rough terrain in front of the army.

[Dimers]

Howzabout golembane scarabs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#scarabGolembane)? ... a siege weapon is still a weapon, right?

[Thurbane]

Arrows of Slaying (construct) are decent, if expensive. Golems will generally have pretty awful Fort saves.

[RNightstalker]

Mace of Smiting

[Efrate]

Invisible spell gate to a plane of choice, with metamagic reducers. They just walk into it and all go away. Plane of earth is nice, they a good snack for multiple things if they are metal or gem. Build primitive earthworks to funnel to the gate point. Silent image of your team fleeing if they need inticement.

[Akkristor]

Scroll/wands of Grease.

Golems have horrible dex, so will fail the DC 10 balance check > 50% of the time, and fall down 25% of the time. Remember that they also must recheck to fall every time they take damage.

[Divine Susuryu]

Golems are usually mindless, so any figment illusions are powerful tools. They get no save unless they interact no matter how ridiculous the illusion might be. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060228a) Since figments aren't mind-affecting and don't allow SR, there's no immunity either. So go nuts with Silent and Minor Image spells for very efficient battlefield control.

[Mrark]

Let me clarify some details: we have 1 day to prepare the city for the siege, and it Will not only consist in “us vs golems”, the armies are more likely “us, sum golems, sum very powerful golems, an army of adventurers lvl 13-20”
Vs “300 lich lvl 11-20, some regular adventurers, more regular golems than us, a couple dozen of particular golems meant to shred regular golems”

So I techically think we might be in a great advantage: Numbers are with us, as with quality of golems (if all goes ad expected, we might get almost 30 golems of really great quality, greatly better than iron ones), but I don’t want to risk anything: our master is really smart, and I know for sure he has some plans. Consider that generally speaking, they have more caster than us, and we have more fighters. But we are waaaaaay richer so everyone is well equipped.

I get the grease advices and will use it, as I will with slaying arrows.

So: I need some fast-doable stuff

[Mrark]

Golems are usually mindless, so any figment illusions are powerful tools. They get no save unless they interact no matter how ridiculous the illusion might be. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060228a) Since figments aren't mind-affecting and don't allow SR, there's no immunity either. So go nuts with Silent and Minor Image spells for very efficient battlefield control.

Generally yes. But those Who command them are in the battlefield to avoid those tricks

[Efrate]

Bind a bunch of arrow demons, give them phasing arrows (for wind wall etc.) and golembane scarabs, a higher ground and buff their to hit. Or a bunch of hanks bows; force is not subject to dr nor wind wall.

[Biggus]

There's Demolition Crystals (MiC p.65) which you can attach to your weapons. They come in 3 grades, least, lesser and greater, for 1,000/3,000/6,000GP each, so they work out a lot cheaper than Bane weapons or the like. The least crystal gives a bonus to damage against constructs, the lesser also makes the weapon count as adamantine for overcoming damage reduction, and the greater also allows you to crit and sneak attack them. They work in addition to the existing magical properties of a weapon, but they do have a restriction: the least crystal requires a weapon of at least masterwork grade to function, the lesser a +1 weapon, and the greater a +3 weapon.

[jintoya]

Hypothetically what happens when a golem is blinded completely?

If it goes "cannot complete task, missing parameter [target]" and grinds to a halt.... Then just find a way to blind them.

Also never forget the shenanigans sovereign glue can allow, stick them to themselves or gunk up inner workings.

I assume they are magically animate, why not use anti-magic to hold em off and focus on casters.

If they have metal parts then get some rust monsters.

Transmute the ground to mud to slow then all down

Polymorph a few into statues to roadblock the others

Pits that look like solid ground.

A gate to elemental plane laid up facing with a simple illusion should have them dropping into it for a while

[Divine Susuryu]

Generally yes. But those Who command them are in the battlefield to avoid those tricks

The amount of resources it would take these commanders to get an order out to a whole army of golems would be much more than a single casting of Silent or Minor image. Hell, get a few casters/UMD users with wands and you can do it 50 times per person. Even with low CL, that's still still 5 x 10ft cubes per pop, or 7 x 10ft cubes with Minor Image.

[RNightstalker]

Let me clarify some details: we have 1 day to prepare the city for the siege, and it Will not only consist in “us vs golems”, the armies are more likely “us, sum golems, sum very powerful golems, an army of adventurers lvl 13-20”
Vs “300 lich lvl 11-20, some regular adventurers, more regular golems than us, a couple dozen of particular golems meant to shred regular golems”

So I techically think we might be in a great advantage: Numbers are with us, as with quality of golems (if all goes ad expected, we might get almost 30 golems of really great quality, greatly better than iron ones), but I don’t want to risk anything: our master is really smart, and I know for sure he has some plans. Consider that generally speaking, they have more caster than us, and we have more fighters. But we are waaaaaay richer so everyone is well equipped.

I get the grease advices and will use it, as I will with slaying arrows.

So: I need some fast-doable stuff

With only one day to prepare you won't have the time/resources to create any magic items mentioned in that time span. So if someone can't teleport to Ye Olde Magicke Shoppe, then copy the Spartans at Thermopylae and prepare the terrain to make their numbers a disadvantage.

[King of Nowhere]

With only one day to prepare you won't have the time/resources to create any magic items mentioned in that time span. So if someone can't teleport to Ye Olde Magicke Shoppe, then copy the Spartans at Thermopylae and prepare the terrain to make their numbers a disadvantage.

They ARE at ye olde magicke shoppe. and they just did a huge service to the guys running it, so they can take a lot of stuff as a reward (well, it's more complicated, but that's what's needed to figure out the situation) and teleport back to the city that's going to be assaulted. My player is asking what they should get from ye olde magicke shoppe

[RNightstalker]

They ARE at ye olde magicke shoppe. and they just did a huge service to the guys running it, so they can take a lot of stuff as a reward (well, it's more complicated, but that's what's needed to figure out the situation) and teleport back to the city that's going to be assaulted. My player is asking what they should get from ye olde magicke shoppe

I apologize if I missed that nugget if it was mentioned earlier, but here's a shopping list:

-Slaying arrows (constructs and undead) to be fired from splitting weapons (need precise shot feat to use ability)
-Mace of Smiting for melee front liners
-Greater Truedeath crystals and greater demolition crystals
-Scrolls of Sunburst for anyone who can use them or UMD skill...400ft + 40ft/lvl range for an 80' radius effect ain't too shabby vs undead.
-Mattock of the Titans and Lyre of Building for terrain control if you don't have a multitude of wall spells available
-have spells/effects ready that can slow said golems, if you can scout out or already know which kind you're facing, a stone golem can lose its DR and magic immunity for a round after a stone to flesh spell for example.
-protective items from poison/death attacks: death ward armor, scarab of protection, etc.
-something/someone to destroy the phylacteries of the liches (really open ended, but being able to locate them, get to them, and finally destroy them can be a real hassle, depending on how the army of liches is being handled.)

Before I go much further, do y'all know how the army is getting there? i.e. are they marching, getting teleported in? And do y'all know any intended tactics of said army and/or leader of said army?

[Darrin]

Golems auto-fail vs. illusions. So some wands of silent image would probably go a long way (illusionary stone walls around golem = statue).

[lord_khaine]

Howzabout golembane scarabs? ... a siege weapon is still a weapon, right?

This was likely the most relevant suggestion of them all.
Then just also get as many balistas as you can.

[Malphegor]

Marbles! (Dungeonscape has stats for them)

From memory, golems aren't that dextrous, their reflex saves aren't the highest, and they never have ranks in Tumble to Jackie Chan stumble their way out of the marbles.

Therefore, deploy patches marbles across your battlefield beforehand so that there is a good chance they'll fall over repeatedly, or, if they notice them, have to avoid those areas. Plus, bags of marbles are pretty cheap. like 1 sp from memory to cover a 5ft square.

[Telonius]

How big of an army are we talking about here, and what kind of golem? Is the army just composed of Golems, or will they have intelligent support?

For a truly unlimited budget, surround your town with Permanencied Teleportation Circles whose destinations are something like, "50 feet back and 500 feet up." (Golem gets the order to advance, hits the circle, falls 500 feet, hopefully onto another golem. If the damage doesn't kill it, it gets up and tries to follow its order, advancing and triggering the circle again). Bah, forgot that had SR: Yes. (Regular old Teleport and Greater Teleport don't. ).

[King of Nowhere]

I apologize if I missed that nugget if it was mentioned earlier, but here's a shopping list:

You didn't miss, it wasn't mentioned.



Before I go much further, do y'all know how the army is getting there? i.e. are they marching, getting teleported in? And do y'all know any intended tactics of said army and/or leader of said army?

the golems are marching, as they cannot be teleported (at least, i interpreted their magic immunity like that, and now it's canon at my campaign. you imply golems can be teleported, so maybe i ruled wrong there, but it stays for the sake of consistency). the high level people controlling the golems can teleport there to support the golems, and they probably will; it's unknown if they will commit all their forces, but those golems are a powerful and expensive asset, so they will probably receive a lot of support. golems alone against high level people are cannon fodder, as they have exploitable weaknesses. So, the general strategy to use them is to send them agains static objectives to force the enemy to react, and then engage with your own high level forces when the enemy is bogged down fighting the golems; they can be considered the anvil in a hammer-and-anvil strategy. anything more than that is pure speculation.


Marbles! (Dungeonscape has stats for them)

From memory, golems aren't that dextrous, their reflex saves aren't the highest, and they never have ranks in Tumble to Jackie Chan stumble their way out of the marbles.

Therefore, deploy patches marbles across your battlefield beforehand so that there is a good chance they'll fall over repeatedly, or, if they notice them, have to avoid those areas. Plus, bags of marbles are pretty cheap. like 1 sp from memory to cover a 5ft square.

marbles work well on rock. on soft ground, they would get squashed into the soil. that's not written in their description, but I'd rule that way. they'd also require very flat ground, or they'd just roll somewhere else. I don't want to be the dm who shots down any idea, and in fact I allowed many crazy plans to succeed, but if those things weren't used in real life there's got to be reasons.
most of the land around the city is soft, and the terrain is somewhat hilly, but there are some roads where they could be applied. I can picture marbles being weakly glued to the ground so they won't roll downhill; on the plus side, they'd also take the weight of a person, but a golem will break them free and send them rolling.


How big of an army are we talking about here, and what kind of golem? Is the army just composed of Golems, or will they have intelligent support?

300 iron golems, of which a few dozens are equipped with cannons (my version works very different from the PF cannon golem, of which I was not aware; the cannon is 20d6 to 30d6 on a touch attack, or 10d6 in a line if loaded with grapeshot. but they take several minutes to reload, so it's practically single use on the time scale of d&d fights. in addition, there are two dozens siege crabs and one dozen greater siege crabs. I already stated about intelligent support.
the defending city has gathered some 300 iron golems itself, again with a few having cannons. they also have some regular artilllery. the city is also surrounded mostly by cliffs and decently fortified, though not to a ludicrous level like minas tirith; just a thick wall where the cliffs are more accessible.

both sides can count on a large number of high level forces (level 10+), and those are the ones really deciding it. As I said earlier, gollems are mostly to force the enemy to commit, or to provide support. the reason there are so many high level people around is that this is a world war, so even if there are only a few dozen of them in any given nation, they add up; and with teleport they can focus anywhere.
On the implications of having a war with a large number of high level people, and especially casters, involved we already discussed at lenght, so no need to explore this now.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Scroll/wands of Grease.

Golems have horrible dex, so will fail the DC 10 balance check > 50% of the time, and fall down 25% of the time. Remember that they also must recheck to fall every time they take damage.Wands of grease are too expensive, and the CL of 1 is terrible.

Huge cauldrons of mundane oil will screw them over just fine, especially if they work just like the grease spell (aside from size and duration). Not having ranks in any skills (ie, Balance) will FUBAR them really, really badly.

Just dump oil all over the prospective battlefield and watch as they go tumbling. Meanwhile, just throw every non-SR ranged effect (mundane and otherwise) you can at them and watch as they die in droves. Helplessly.

Alternately, a bunch of CL boosters and a staff of grease with the Selective Spell, Widen Spell, Enlarge Spell, and War Magic Study, and/or Sculpt Spell feats applied. A HUGE cone of grease, enough to cover the battlefield, will screw over the mindless constructs, while leaving everything that isn't such unaffected.

[unseenmage]

The Rod of Construct Control from AaEG is the best.

Domain Draught for the Warforged Domain is great.


Rope. Rope is THE most useful item for every situation.
(chain just being metal clinkey rope)