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View Full Version : Multiple Stats affect DCs/Saves?



Mike_Lemmer
2007-10-07, 01:45 AM
Fax & I were debating the chances that in 4E, they'd decide which attribute affects a spell's DC based on the spell's school, not the caster's class. Examples would be:

Int affects Evocation spells.
Wis affects Illusion spells.
Cha affects Enchantment spells.


This would remove the issue with casters just increasing 1 stat to improve their DCs, while victims have to increase 3 stats to cover every save type. It would also encourage casters to naturally drift towards certain spell schools based on which stat(s) their other abilities are based on.

On a related note, I wonder what would happen if each save took bonuses from 2 stats?

Fortitude gets bonuses from Con & Str.
Reflex gets bonuses from Dex & Int.
Will gets bonuses from Wis & Cha.

(And because I know someone will ask, my excuse for tacking Int onto Reflex is that it's easier for a smart person to figure out where the breath will & won't go and thus head that way post-haste, or the best way to quickly protect yourself from an icestorm. A poor excuse, perhaps, but Int had to go somewhere and tacking 3 attributes onto Will seemed a bit much.)

Yuki Akuma
2007-10-07, 06:09 AM
I'm reminded of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion suddenly.

It's not a bad idea, but it increases MAD a ton...

Spiryt
2007-10-07, 06:31 AM
This stuff sound really fun and perfectly logical!

It would be really cool if they do such thing.

(And intelligence fits Reflex saves perfectly).

Skjaldbakka
2007-10-07, 06:35 AM
I like it, generally speaking. But then again, I think that every class should be MAD.

The Professor
2007-10-07, 06:37 AM
I like the idea. But if that's the case, I want a Fighter to have just as much a dependency on all of the physical stats.

If Con is low, he's easily winded and can't fight as long.

If his Dex is low he's unable to 'keep up' with some foes based on their speed.

And Str is a given.

Spiryt
2007-10-07, 07:09 AM
I like the idea. But if that's the case, I want a Fighter to have just as much a dependency on all of the physical stats.

If Con is low, he's easily winded and can't fight as long.

If his Dex is low he's unable to 'keep up' with some foes based on their speed.

And Str is a given.

Well, it depends.

Basically 3.5 has it all :

Strenght is given
Con - when you are fighter with low Con you have low HP, so you are easily winded and somebody finally strikes you lethally.
Dex - With low initiative and Touch AC you often can't "keep up".

There is not very well done, I must admit, and I hope that it will be better in 3.5.

However if they do so I really hope that mental stats will have meaning for fighter types as well.

Lord Zentei
2007-10-07, 07:11 AM
I'm reminded of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion suddenly.

It's not a bad idea, but it increases MAD a ton...

That won't be a problem if all classes are affected by MAD equally.

Even if they are not, this idea might in any case reduce the overpowered nature of primary caster classes versus the rest.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-10-07, 07:31 AM
I'm reminded of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion suddenly.

It's not a bad idea, but it increases MAD a ton...

Well, it increases MAD a ton for classes that try to do everything with spells, such as wizards, clerics, druids, etc. Surprise surprise, they're treated as 1st-tier classes most of the time; perhaps such a change would force them to specialize a bit more and thus drop their power levels relative to the other classes?

My reasoning is, if victims have to invest in 3 attributes to up their saves against everything a wizard can cast at them, it's only fair that the wizard has to increase 3 attributes to cast everything effectively at them.