3.5 Power Leveling Would This Work?

[OboTheHobo]

I saw an interesting RAW proposal for enervation, the idea was that you could use it to get more XP. The idea comes from the following clause in negative levels [-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).] Since the XP formula is the dictionary definition of when a creature's level is used in a calculation it would thusly provide more XP from an encounter.

so would this work? what other ideas are floating out there to power level?
I'm imagining a situation where you get sucked into the world of D&D and really don't want to die. (So be as RAWsy as you want)

[OboTheHobo]

~Realy don't want to die.

Aka a wizard.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

what other ideas are floating out there to power level?At level 1, take a level of wizard and Precocious Apprentice (Ray of Stupidity), along with Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Forceful_Magic). Kill some small animals for XP, then make a few 0-level scrolls of ray of stupidity via Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic. Now go find some elephants. Knock 'em out with ray of stupidity; it's a ranged touch attack which will hardly ever miss, and the chance of hitting and not insta-K.O.ing them is completely nil. You should be able to level up to mid-levels in just a few rounds (one level per elephant, and one elephant per round). Once you have access to planar binding, call up a genie and use a wish for a thought bottle that's attuned to you and is filled with enough XP to get you to whatever level you want.

Alternatively, wish for an empty thought bottle, and use Extra Spell to get greater restoration and curse of lycanthropy (https://dndtools.net/spells/complete-divine--56/curse-of-lycanthropy--719/). Cast curse of lycanthropy on yourself for a high HD lycanthropy strain (such as elephantitis), hit yourself with some negative levels (waiting long enough to make them permanent), then cast greater restoration on yourself. This will reset your XP to incorporate the LA and RHD of yourself with the lycanthropy strain. Now store your XP in the thought bottle, break curse of lycanthropy via break enchantment and restore your previous XP level from the thought bottle. This will allow you to gain a ton of levels very fast, and it's repeatable!

[MisterKaws]

At level 1, take a level of wizard and Precocious Apprentice (Ray of Stupidity), along with Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Forceful_Magic). Kill some small animals for XP, then make a few 0-level scrolls of ray of stupidity via Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic. Now go find some elephants. Knock 'em out with ray of stupidity; it's a touch attack which will hardly ever miss, and the chance of hitting and not insta-K.O.ing them is completely nil. You should be able to level up to mid-levels in just a few rounds (one level per elephant, and one elephant per round). Once you have access to planar binding, call up a genie and use a wish for a thought bottle that's attuned to you and is filled with enough XP to get you to whatever level you want.

Alternatively, wish for an empty thought bottle, and use Extra Spell to get greater restoration and curse of lycanthropy (https://dndtools.net/spells/complete-divine--56/curse-of-lycanthropy--719/). Cast curse of lycanthropy on yourself for a high HD lycanthropy strain (such as elephantitis), hit yourself with some negative levels (waiting long enough to make them permanent), then cast greater restoration on yourself. This will reset your XP to incorporate the LA and RHD of yourself with the lycanthropy strain. Now store your XP in the thought bottle, break curse of lycanthropy via break enchantment and restore your previous XP level from the thought bottle. This will allow you to gain a ton of levels very fast, and it's repeatable!

That's why they don't make D&D isekai stories with D&D players...

[CIDE]

That's why they don't make D&D isekai stories with D&D players...

I kind of want to see this now....

[flappeercraft]

That's why they don't make D&D isekai stories with D&D players...


I kind of want to see this now....

I mean, Overlord is basically D&D and I recall reading somewhere that it is infact based on it and specifically 3.5 although I never fact checked for an official statement, but I have to admit the similarities are there.

[Jack_Simth]

I saw an interesting RAW proposal for enervation, the idea was that you could use it to get more XP. The idea comes from the following clause in negative levels [-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).] Since the XP formula is the dictionary definition of when a creature's level is used in a calculation it would thusly provide more XP from an encounter.

so would this work? what other ideas are floating out there to power level?
I'm imagining a situation where you get sucked into the world of D&D and really don't want to die. (So be as RAWsy as you want)

0) You have X class levels.
1) Get a tireless Bard-9 under your thumb (Necropolitan, Warforged, Dread Warrior, whatever), as well as a means of controlled negative levels that can become permanent (a Wight under your thumb is the easy way).
2) Have the bard Inspire Greatness in you, giving you two bonus hit dice, and keep it up. You now have X class levels and 2 bonus hit dice.
3) Apply a negative level to yourself. You are now have X class levels, X, 2 bonus hit dice, and one negative level.
4) Wait.
5) When the 24 hour mark rolls around, voluntarily fail the save to prevent the negative level from becoming level loss. When it does, per Level loss (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_levelloss&alpha=L) "The victim's experience point total is immediately set to the midpoint of the previous level. For example, a character drained from 2nd to 1st level would drop to 500 experience points." - however: You had two bonus hit dice at the time! And per the definition of Effective Character Level (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_effectivecharacterlevel&alpha=E), "A creature's ECL is the sum of its Hit Dice (including class levels) and level adjustment." - so your experience point total is set to midway between X +1 and X + 2.
6) Let the bard stop singing (24 hours and a round or two after starting). You now have X class levels, and an XP total midway between X+1 and X+2.
7) As your XP total is above what's needed for the next level: Level up. You are now level X+1.
8) Go to 2.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It's not exactly gaining levels, but this can let you squeeze all of a class's ability progression into a single level, so a wizard 1/bard 1/fighter 1/barbarian 1 can count as a wizard 20/bard 20/fighter 20/barbarian 20 without actually gaining any of those extra HD.

Dip a bunch of singular class levels, as above. Figure out which classes you want the class abilities for most, and take those. Now either polymorph, PAO, metamorphosis, or shapechange into an illithid and take three levels of illithid savant to get acquire class feature.

Now eat a character with 10 levels in legacy champion (or more, if you can swing eating an epic level guy with epic legacy champion levels; ice assassin is good for doing this with minimal risk), and make sure to take his +X levels of existing class features ability. Apply those +X levels to illithid savant so you can gain more class abilities and special qualities (and since all class abilities are also special qualities, you can apply both towards eating more class abilities). Now eat numerous clones of the legacy champion you ate earlier and apply all of those +X levels of existing class features abilities toward advancing your class levels until they hit whatever level you want.

That way you can be, say, a level 20 character with somewhere around 360 levels' worth of class abilities.

Even better if you're gestalt!

[MisterKaws]

I mean, Overlord is basically D&D and I recall reading somewhere that it is infact based on it and specifically 3.5 although I never fact checked for an official statement, but I have to admit the similarities are there.

It's kind of D&D with every class level being worth about one-quarter of the D&D-equivalent (with them being around 25 by the end of it).

It's also why the reason Shalltear is unkillable except by Epic(10th-level) Magic: her creator was a minor munchkin.

[Crake]

so would this work?

The answer to this question right here is the one that really matters, and most likely the answer to the question will be a big, fat no. Not because it's somehow not within the bounds of the rules, it doesn't break RAW or anything like that. But the chances of you finding a DM who will allow such a thing to happen in their game, or any of the other similar combos in this thread, regardless of the rules, is going to be low, if not non-existant.

[weckar]

At level 1, take a level of wizard and Precocious Apprentice (Ray of Stupidity), along with Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Forceful_Magic). Kill some small animals for XP, then make a few 0-level scrolls of ray of stupidity via Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic.It breaks here. Sanctum Spell does not provide a spell slot increase, so Foreceful Magic cannot reduce it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It breaks here. Sanctum Spell does not provide a spell slot increase, so Foreceful Magic cannot reduce it.No it doesn't. All Forceful Spell requires is that a spell be altered by a metamagic feat, not that the feat increases the spell level.


Forceful Magic
Type: General
Source: Dragon #308

You learned magic in an area where spells were difficult to cast due to the prevailing arcane weather.
Benefit: Once per day, when preparing or casting any one spell augmented by a metamagic feat, you may reduce the required spell slot increase by one.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time you take it, you can apply the effect to one additional spell per day. You may not apply it more than once to the same spell. Where in that description does it say that the spell level must be increased, or that the decrease is bounded by the original level of the spell?

Sanctum Spell reduces the spell level by 1, and Forceful Spell reduces that by a further 1. A level 2 spell reduced by -2 is a level 0 spell. Level 0 spells are cheap to make scrolls for.

Please quote the place in the text where this combo breaks.

[MisterKaws]

The answer to this question right here is the one that really matters, and most likely the answer to the question will be a big, fat no. Not because it's somehow not within the bounds of the rules, it doesn't break RAW or anything like that. But the chances of you finding a DM who will allow such a thing to happen in their game, or any of the other similar combos in this thread, regardless of the rules, is going to be low, if not non-existant.

If you take a closer look at the last line on OP, you might notice that this is a thought experiment considering 100% RAW, so that's kinda irrelevant.

[Crake]

If you take a closer look at the last line on OP, you might notice that this is a thought experiment considering 100% RAW, so that's kinda irrelevant.

I'll be honest, the last line didn't really make sense to me until I re-read it about 5 times just now.

[weckar]

Please quote the place in the text where this combo breaks.


you may reduce the required spell slot increase by one.
Sanctum spell does not provide a spell slot increase in this case, so there is nothing to reduce.

[OboTheHobo]

@Forceful Magic
Aside from the prerequisites, isn't Arcane thesis a better choice all around?

Wait, Forceful Magic doesn't have the "A spell cannot be reduced to below its original level with the use of this feat." clause Arcane thesis has.