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Mars Ultor
2019-06-19, 04:49 PM
It's become a yearly tradition in my house for my kids (now teens) and I to watch The Lord of the Rings trilogy, and since they've also been taught to play D&D we sometimes comment on the movie in game terms. As my daughter has pointed out, you can actually see Éowyn make her Will Save in The Two Towers while speaking to Wormtongue. (Note that only the book and the animated The Hobbit from 1977 exists in our house, The Hobbit movies never happened. We saw them in the theater and hated them. We have not yet watched one of the fan-edited versions.)

What items in use in the books and movie can be replicated in D&D? Excluding the one ring, which would be a completely custom item in the game, there are many items that seem as if they might be definable. Orcrist and Sting are obviously orc-bane weapons, while it's unclear what Glamdring's powers are. It's possible it's simply a base +2 or +3 orc-bane weapon.

The barrow-blades don't really feature in the movies, but in the books we learn they were made specifically to fight the Witch-King and his army. Presumably the weapons are undead-bane, Axiomatic, or even Ghost Touch. Perhaps someone else has a better notion of what these weapons might be.

Aragorn's sword, Narsil/Andúril is a Holy sword, perhaps even a Holy Avenger. We know that Sauron is afraid of the sword, and fears it in the hands of Aragorn. In the book Aragorn claims that anyone other than himself who draws Narsil will die. It's difficult to tell if this is a threat or a legitimate property of the sword. It's also possible that it will make the wielder a target of Sauron, but it's not clear how Sauron would know.

When reforged into Andúril, the elves give Aragorn a scabbard, too. In the books it is said that whatever weapon drawn from the scabbard can't be stained or broken. It's not clear how this would translate.

Lembas bread can be seen as long-lasting Goodberries. They act as nourishment and provide some healing capability.

The elven-made cloaks are cloaks of elven-kind, although according to the books they might also have properties similar to the spell Endure Elements. There's a suggestion in the book that the orcs' arrow miss them when the fellowship is wearing their cloaks, but presumably it's the conditions on the river combined with the cloaks that are just giving them Concealment.

In both the books and the movies the fellowship are given elven brooches to fasten their cloaks. Although no specific ability is given for them, I'm assuming they're some protection item, perhaps they add a bonus to AC, Saving Throws, or both.

The elven rope given to Sam is a Rope of Climbing.

Legolas is given a bow by Galadriel. We know it's magical because the string is made from elf-hair, that's better than electrolytes. Also, Legolas already has a cool Mirkwood bow and he throws it away when given the Galadhrim bow.

In the book Legolas has a long, white knife, in the movie he has two. I don't have knowledge or any particular details, the knife could simply be a masterwork or +1 weapon.

Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar or Elfstone, it's said to have some healing powers, I'm going to suggest it's a Periapt of Wound Closure.

Galadriel gives Gimli three strands of hair. Gimli asks for one, but there's some reference to Galadriel having refused someone else three times when he'd asked for a strand of hair. I suspect that they grant good luck, but I'm open to other interpretations.

In the books, but not the movie, Galadriel gives Boromir a golden belt, and a silver belt each to Merry and Pippin. There's no indication what the belts do, but they're made by elves, and they're gifts, so presumably they have some power. Boromir fights a ton of orcs before he's killed, I can see the belt as adding to Strength or AC. It's unclear what Merry and Pippin's belt do, but I would assume they're similar to Boromir's belt, but of lesser power. None of the belts in the MIC really lend themselves to being like the gift belts either.

Boromir also has the Great Horn. It not only struck fear into hearts of his enemies, but it would alway bring people to his aid. I'm not sure how those would translate, perhaps a fear effect and something else?

In the movie, but not the books, Boromir is wearing bracers. They appear to be leather and have the White Tree of Gondor engraved on them. Aragorn takes them off Boromir when he dies, and then wears them himself. It could be a symbol of Aragorn acknowledging that he's taking on the responsibility for the protection of Gondor after having for so long shied away from taking the throne, but I'd like to think they're also bracers of protection that work even while wearing armor.

Gandalf has one of the rings given to the elves. He's got Narya, the ring of fire, but its description suggests fire is a metaphor for inspiring courage and kindling hope in the wearer and others. It's like a Circlet of Persuasion combined with radiating an Aura of Courage.

It's difficult to specify what Gandalf's staff does, it seems more like a divine focus than anything else.

Bard's Black Arrow as described in the book is possibly a Slaying Arrow keyed to dragons.

I'd love to hear other interpretations or thoughts on what these items might be in 3.5 terms.

Thurbane
2019-06-19, 05:04 PM
AFB, but I have a copy of this at home somewhere:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Nh0AAOSw5AFZaU09/s-l300.jpg

It's a different system, but has game stats for pretty much every magic item of note in Tolkien's Middle Earth works.

weckar
2019-06-19, 05:04 PM
I think you missed a pretty big one. Like, THE big one.

RNightstalker
2019-06-19, 05:22 PM
I think you missed a pretty big one. Like, THE big one.

It's definitely an intelligent artifact.

Albions_Angel
2019-06-19, 05:30 PM
So the ring has a bunch of abilities but none of them are stunning. Its main thing its its a phylactery. Clearly. Its literally tied to the life force of an undead (celestial) being.

As for what it does to regular folks?

Well, it drains Con over time. Probably on a daily failed will save, the DC of which is dependent on distance to its master.

It grants greater invisibility and is always active. It also alerts its master and his minions when worn.

It clearly exerts some mental control over the bearer. Thats intelligent item territory. Hands down. Lawful Evil alignment. Poor Frodo (Chaotic Good) never stood a chance.

RNightstalker
2019-06-19, 05:40 PM
So the ring has a bunch of abilities but none of them are stunning. Its main thing its its a phylactery. Clearly. Its literally tied to the life force of an undead (celestial) being.

As for what it does to regular folks?

Well, it drains Con over time. Probably on a daily failed will save, the DC of which is dependent on distance to its master.

It grants greater invisibility and is always active. It also alerts its master and his minions when worn.

It clearly exerts some mental control over the bearer. Thats intelligent item territory. Hands down. Lawful Evil alignment. Poor Frodo (Chaotic Good) never stood a chance.

If it was a Con drain Gollum would've died way before The Hobbit, let alone the original trilogy.

MisterKaws
2019-06-19, 05:48 PM
So the ring has a bunch of abilities but none of them are stunning. Its main thing its its a phylactery. Clearly. Its literally tied to the life force of an undead (celestial) being.

As for what it does to regular folks?

Well, it drains Con over time. Probably on a daily failed will save, the DC of which is dependent on distance to its master.

It grants greater invisibility and is always active. It also alerts its master and his minions when worn.

It clearly exerts some mental control over the bearer. Thats intelligent item territory. Hands down. Lawful Evil alignment. Poor Frodo (Chaotic Good) never stood a chance.

For sure not Con. Feels more like Wis to me, and probably only on a weekly basis or so, or with a minimum Wis score limit.

Efrate
2019-06-19, 05:56 PM
Also possibly a true seeing effect when worn. In the movies at least Frodo sees the ring wraiths as ancient looking humans. In the book when Sam rescues Frodo from orcs he is holding the ring and it makes him appear as a much more imposing warrior and frightens the orcs IIRC.

Mars Ultor
2019-06-19, 07:34 PM
I think you missed a pretty big one. Like, THE big one.

The ring's power are indefinable and open to interpretation. We know it makes the wearer invisible, the rest can be debated endlessly.

animewatcha
2019-06-19, 11:46 PM
AFB, but I have a copy of this at home somewhere:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Nh0AAOSw5AFZaU09/s-l300.jpg

It's a different system, but has game stats for pretty much every magic item of note in Tolkien's Middle Earth works.


Took a looking into this book. The copyright itself is 1989 so I don't know if it is First or second edition.

One would need to read nearly the entire book. It has THAT MUCH stuff in it. The pdf I got is 144 pages ( with many pages having close to 10 on low end to close to 20 items per page ). Almost all of it is stats/properties in some form ( there is fluff and setting stuff, but it pretty much is LOTR Magic Item Compendium ). One can get an 'idea' of the powers that would be granted for individual items ( the one ring - greater invis, see invis, etc. ) and can come up with an approximation as to how long etc. Thing is you would need to consult both 'the fluff' and the 'description' to get within the ballpark. Only someone who has played the appropriately 1st/2nd edition can best translate item stats into 3rd edition.

gooddragon1
2019-06-20, 12:54 AM
For sure not Con. Feels more like Wis to me, and probably only on a weekly basis or so, or with a minimum Wis score limit.

I think it also prevents your physical ability scores from decreasing by age.

Psyren
2019-06-20, 01:02 AM
As others said, I'd go with either Wis or Cha loss from wearing it. Also it feels more like penalties (permanent ones?) than drain since Gollum never ended up comatose or dead.

hamishspence
2019-06-20, 01:05 AM
For sure not Con. Feels more like Wis to me, and probably only on a weekly basis or so, or with a minimum Wis score limit.

As others said, I'd go with either Wis or Cha loss from wearing it. Also it feels more like penalties (permanent ones?) than drain since Gollum never ended up comatose or dead.


We're told that repeatedly using Great Rings to become invisible has a chance of causing the user to eventually fade and become a wraith. Maybe have it as stat damage rather than stat drain - so someone like Gollum who used the ring rarely, with big gaps between uses, has time to recover the damaged stat.

Using this paradigm, the Kings And Sorcerers of Old who became Ringwraiths, used their rings too much too fast, without allowing recovery time.

Nousos
2019-06-20, 03:20 AM
The kings of old became wraiths due to their rings (and race) being corrupted once Sauron created the one ring. Every race that was given rings of power became weakened in some way, the human wielders became his servants, the dwarven ones became insanely greedy, and the elven rings lost much of their power.

The reason the one ring grants Hobbits powers like it does and they have the ability to withstand it is because they are an ignored race that never had rings of power created to strengthen them. Saurons ring was made to not only give himself power but subjugate all races that had them. Gandalf even states that if he were to wear the ring he would become like Sauron. Galadriel mentions something similar, I can't recall now, but remarks that she must not be given the ring under any circumstances. Its a burden only Hobbits can bear.

ben-zayb
2019-06-20, 05:40 AM
I think you missed a pretty big one. Like, THE big one.
Oh, you meant the Palantir? Pretty sure there's a wondrous item that works like that.

Malphegor
2019-06-20, 08:33 AM
When reforged into Andúril, the elves give Aragorn a scabbard, too. In the books it is said that whatever weapon drawn from the scabbard can't be stained or broken. It's not clear how this would translate.

Scabbard with bands in it engraved with Permanent runes (made by a runecaster) of Prestidigitation (magically doing maintanence and oiling on a weapon) and some other spell that increases the hardness of an object, set to trigger on any weapon moving in the scabbard.

Psyren
2019-06-20, 10:25 AM
We're told that repeatedly using Great Rings to become invisible has a chance of causing the user to eventually fade and become a wraith. Maybe have it as stat damage rather than stat drain - so someone like Gollum who used the ring rarely, with big gaps between uses, has time to recover the damaged stat.

Using this paradigm, the Kings And Sorcerers of Old who became Ringwraiths, used their rings too much too fast, without allowing recovery time.

None of them wore the One Ring though so this might not be a perfect extrapolation. The point about Gollum potentially having worn the OR sporadically and recovering from it is plausible though.

hamishspence
2019-06-20, 11:16 AM
Gandalf actually notes some of the warning sights re. Bilbo:

"As for his long life, Bilbo never connected it with the ring at all. He took all the credit for that to himself, and he was very proud of it. Though he was getting restless and uneasy. Thin and stretched he said. A sign that the ring was getting control."

What Gandalf said about the Great Rings in general, seems IMO intended to be extrapolated to the One:


"A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. And if he often uses the Ring to make himself invisible, he fades: he becomes in the end invisible permanently, and walks in the twilight under the eye of the dark power that rules the Rings. Yes, sooner or later – later, if he is strong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last – sooner or later the dark power will devour him."


Hobbits being a basically variant of Men, that happens to be small - so, mortal.

RNightstalker
2019-06-20, 05:43 PM
None of them wore the One Ring though so this might not be a perfect extrapolation. The point about Gollum potentially having worn the OR sporadically and recovering from it is plausible though.

But having mere possession of the ring affected the bearer, so it's not just wearing the ring.

Thurbane
2019-06-20, 06:54 PM
Took a looking into this book. The copyright itself is 1989 so I don't know if it is First or second edition.

One would need to read nearly the entire book. It has THAT MUCH stuff in it. The pdf I got is 144 pages ( with many pages having close to 10 on low end to close to 20 items per page ). Almost all of it is stats/properties in some form ( there is fluff and setting stuff, but it pretty much is LOTR Magic Item Compendium ). One can get an 'idea' of the powers that would be granted for individual items ( the one ring - greater invis, see invis, etc. ) and can come up with an approximation as to how long etc. Thing is you would need to consult both 'the fluff' and the 'description' to get within the ballpark. Only someone who has played the appropriately 1st/2nd edition can best translate item stats into 3rd edition.

It's printed for the ICE Rolemaster/MERP rules, which is a completely different system, so it would require significant modification. Still, it's a decent source for inspiration. I never played the system myself, mainly got it as inspiration for creating custom items for my own D&D game.

Mars Ultor
2019-06-22, 12:02 AM
It's printed for the ICE Rolemaster/MERP rules, which is a completely different system, so it would require significant modification. Still, it's a decent source for inspiration. I never played the system myself, mainly got it as inspiration for creating custom items for my own D&D game.

I took a look and I was a little disappointed. It gave stats for hundreds of items, it's as if every axe, shield, and shoelace in Middle Earth had some magical properties. There are some items for which references pages are provided in Tolkien's books, but the majority only refer to other game books. If there's a reference to someone's sword and the book elaborates on what it could be, that's fine, but this book was making up items out of whole cloth.

Biggus
2019-06-22, 12:30 AM
When reforged into Andúril, the elves give Aragorn a scabbard, too. In the books it is said that whatever weapon drawn from the scabbard can't be stained or broken. It's not clear how this would translate.

There's the Blueshine armour property property from MiC, which prevents it from tarnishing and protects it from rust and acid: sounds like the scabbard had a version of that adapted for weapons. Also in MiC there's the greater Crystal of Adamant Weaponry which increases hardness by 10, which would fit with the "can't be broken" part.


In the books, but not the movie, Galadriel gives Boromir a golden belt, and a silver belt each to Merry and Pippin. There's no indication what the belts do, but they're made by elves, and they're gifts, so presumably they have some power. Boromir fights a ton of orcs before he's killed, I can see the belt as adding to Strength or AC.


Given how many arrows Boromir is hit with before he dies, it sounds like it gave damage reduction, and possibly also the Diehard feat.

Mars Ultor
2019-06-22, 05:53 PM
There's the Blueshine armour property property from MiC, which prevents it from tarnishing and protects it from rust and acid: sounds like the scabbard had a version of that adapted for weapons. Also in MiC there's the greater Crystal of Adamant Weaponry which increases hardness by 10, which would fit with the "can't be broken" part.


Given how many arrows Boromir is hit with before he dies, it sounds like it gave damage reduction, and possibly also the Diehard feat.


I like both these suggestions, thank you.

farothel
2019-06-23, 06:32 AM
For sure not Con. Feels more like Wis to me, and probably only on a weekly basis or so, or with a minimum Wis score limit.

And Charisma. I mean, from the movie we know that Smeagol wasn't too good looking when he started out, but Gollum is way worse. Although this probably takes longer than 1 check per week.

Thurbane
2019-06-23, 05:21 PM
I took a look and I was a little disappointed. It gave stats for hundreds of items, it's as if every axe, shield, and shoelace in Middle Earth had some magical properties. There are some items for which references pages are provided in Tolkien's books, but the majority only refer to other game books. If there's a reference to someone's sword and the book elaborates on what it could be, that's fine, but this book was making up items out of whole cloth.

Yeah, true. That book has a ton of items that aren't in the original books, and also ascribes magical qualities to some items that were probably mundane in the books.