Capping a quarterstaff?

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all,

Ideas are bubbling again, so after buffing up monks in my games, and giving them access to gauntlets as monk weapons that do fist damage and can be enchanted, I am turning my attention to, not a class, but a weapon.

The Quarterstaff is fun, thematic, and effective at the low op games I tend to run. But I still see people struggling a little with it. Interestingly, I see that a lot from druids below level 5. Go figure.

Anyway, I wondered if anyone knows of any rules for "capping" a quarterstaff with various metalic materials (cold iron, alchemical silver, etc). If not, can anyone foresee any issues with me creating staff caps as items, available at the price of the enhancement of other weapons? So 20gp for cold iron, and 30gp for silver. Would probably allow the same for clubs and greatclubs as "bounded" weapons.

The only issue is I am not totally sure how it should interact with Shillelagh, but there are far more powerful things out there than letting a druid hit something hard with silver or cold iron.

[KillianHawkeye]

Druids have no problem hitting things with metal weapons, if that's your concern.

[Deadline]

The only thing I can think of that might be objectionable for this is that it's demonstrably better than the Metalline weapon enchantment. If you use a "capped" wooden weapon, the cost of changing special weapon materials is trivial compared to the cost of a weapon enchantment, or the cost of even a decent weapon made of the special material (which cannot change the type of material it's made of).

[heavyfuel]

Quarterstaffs already get plenty of love from casters. Greater Mighty Wallop (wizard) works on it, as do Spikes (cleric and druid).

For non-casters, I'd just add a Tactical Feat called "bo staff fighting" to let people do a bunch of cool stuff while wielding a quarterstaff.

From the top of my head:

Pre-req: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff, BAB +6

When you are whielding a quarterstaff, you can benefit from three tactical maneuvers:

Plant and Spin: You can plant your staff on the ground and hit enemies with your feet. As a full-round action, you can
make a single unarmed strike against every creature within your natural reach.

Spining Defense: To use this tactical maneuver, you must have the Deflect Arrow feat. You can benefit from the Deflect Attow feat (but not the Snatch Arrow feat) even if you no free hands. Additionally, you take the Total Defense action, you can use the Deflect Arrows feat any number of times until your next turn and gain a +1 Dodge bonus to AC.

Ease of use: You can also use a quarterstaff to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the quarterstaff to avoid being tripped. Additionally, you can use the weapon finesse in conjunction with a quarterstaff.

[Elkad]

Allowing a cap of a special material seems fine. But I'd require it to be an integral part of the weapon, not a quick-change item for mid-dungeon.

I was expecting something different in this thread. I've changed quarterstaves (and every other double weapon) to be more competitive with two-handed weapons. Full strmod to damage with each end. Some are finessable (Qstaff is one).

[AnimeTheCat]

Allowing a cap of a special material seems fine. But I'd require it to be an integral part of the weapon, not a quick-change item for mid-dungeon.

I was expecting something different in this thread. I've changed quarterstaves (and every other double weapon) to be more competitive with two-handed weapons. Full strmod to damage with each end. Some are finessable (Qstaff is one).

I would actually make it specifically a quick change part of the weapon. It's a subpar weapon already and adding some level of mundane utility would actually be pretty awesome.

[tyckspoon]

The only thing I can think of that might be objectionable for this is that it's demonstrably better than the Metalline weapon enchantment. If you use a "capped" wooden weapon, the cost of changing special weapon materials is trivial compared to the cost of a weapon enchantment, or the cost of even a decent weapon made of the special material (which cannot change the type of material it's made of).

Just make it a permanent/semipermanent attachment - has to be nailed, glued, riveted, forged, etc into place in order to make it durable and reliable enough to hold up to combat. Might be able to change it out if you have access to a good smith's workshop, but you're not going to just pop off one and slide on another in between fights like you were selecting a different arrow.


.. Metalline's not a great choice of enhancement anyways, tbh, unless you have an encyclopedic knowledge of D&D's special metals beyond just their applications for countering DR - it's too expensive for only that application. Can be fun if you can do things like 'oh crap these things like to sunder, ok my weapon is now Aurorum' or 'sending my weapon in to get upgraded, it's now made of this magically attuned metal that gets 10% off enchantment costs.'

[rel]

I think allowing players to cap the weapon and thus get access to DR negating materials like silver and cold iron seems reasonable.


My preferred house rule for improving the quarterstaff is as follows:

The quarterstaff is both a simple and exotic weapon.

If used as a simple weapon it has the normal stats.

If used as an exotic weapon it has all the stats and special rules of a spiked chain except that it still does bludgeoning damage.

[AnimeTheCat]

My preferred house rule for improving the quarterstaff is as follows:

The quarterstaff is both a simple and exotic weapon.

If used as a simple weapon it has the normal stats.

If used as an exotic weapon it has all the stats and special rules of a spiked chain except that it still does bludgeoning damage.

Why though? What does this solve and what is the value added?

[Efrate]

Gives your monk etc. reach and a tripping weapon that is usable at close and reach range. I assume monks and those who use monk weapons would get free ewp.

Caps are fine, just decide the action needed to change whether you want it mid combat or between combats. A move action is a good place to start scale up or down in action cost as you see fit.

[AnimeTheCat]

Gives your monk etc. reach and a tripping weapon that is usable at close and reach range. I assume monks and those who use monk weapons would get free ewp.

Caps are fine, just decide the action needed to change whether you want it mid combat or between combats. A move action is a good place to start scale up or down in action cost as you see fit.

the thing is that there are already martial weapons that allow you to trip with reach and with a simple 5 ft step on your turn allow you to use them normally. if an enemy is approaching you, you're only going to get one attack of opportunity anyway (because the provocation is as the enemy leaves the threatened square not as they enter it) and if the enemy isn't approaching you you're still going to get at least one, more likely 2. You're not improving your effectiveness all that much by threatening that 5 ft space immediately next to you, and if you're large that still won't change.

I just don't think making a simple weapon double as an exotic weapon is even remotely warranted, especially since that's just putting another roadblock in place for one of few effective tactics that a non-magical character has. If we're going to houserule something, that houserule should absolutely, without a negative, improve the effectiveness of what non-magical characters can do.

[Efrate]

Martial weapons yes. As a flavorful monk weapon though, assuming you get ewp for free, it is great. Monks do not get martial weapons. Neither do ninjas. As long as its free then its fine. If they need to take the feat its mostly junk.

[AnimeTheCat]

Martial weapons yes. As a flavorful monk weapon though, assuming you get ewp for free, it is great. Monks do not get martial weapons. Neither do ninjas. As long as its free then its fine. If they need to take the feat its mostly junk.

That's what I'm saying... just make it do the thing and don't put a feat tax on it.

[rel]

Why though? What does this solve and what is the value added?
Depends on the game obviously but often the main reason is simply I think the spiked chain is a silly weapon and I want to remove it without nerfing the builds that rely on it. Hence the refluff.



Gives your monk etc. reach and a tripping weapon that is usable at close and reach range. I assume monks and those who use monk weapons would get free ewp.
Correct, monks and other appropriate classes get the EWP for free. This is the other reason for the rule; A slight buff to monk that encourages them to play in a way that matches their theme and archetypes

[Mato]

The Quarterstaff is fun, thematic, and effective at the low op games I tend to run.Given your interest in DR opposed to how quarterstaffs can be used to cast two 9th level spells with four successful attacks, it's probably because your group is trying to use them wrong.

Start your group off on greater mighty wallop (3rd, lasts all day, increases base damage up to 6d6) and brambles (2nd, up to +10 enhancement to attack & damage) to ease them into the idea quarterstaffs are very high damaging weapons that make a greatsword seem like a tiny useless butter knife. Then when they are ready show them how entangling staff (3rd) allows you to make a free grapple attempt with an +8 bonus to immediately deal an extra 2d6 damage and leave them entangled while still allowing you to continue to attack people. Combine with the brutal strike feat to leave them sickened too and now you're not only out damaging everyone else but you're laying down control and debuff effects too.

Finally, harrier their spellcaster with blackstaff (8th) which allows you to strip the casters of all their buffs and high level spell slots. The group should then be able to appreciate spellstaff (6th) and Eilservs school.