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View Full Version : Is this a valid and/or powerful summon?



SolkaTruesilver
2007-10-07, 11:30 AM
Spell Used: Lesser Planar Binding or Lesser Planar Ally

Creature summoned: Half-Celestial Pyro-Hydra (or Cryo-Hydra, your call)

Would that be.. legit and powerful?

Anxe
2007-10-07, 12:07 PM
Nope. Not legit. You can't summon a creature with a template, besides fiendish and celestial, unless you know its name. But summoning a Pyro/cryo Hydra is a sweet idea if it was an outsider.

bosssmiley
2007-10-07, 12:08 PM
Deja vu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58925) :smallamused:

Quick answer: Ask your DM.

Longer answer: By RAI it would appear to be (although how would you negotiate with it for its services?), by RAW I dunno.

My personal opinion as a DM: "Half-celestial *hydra as a planar ally? Hahahahahaha, that's a good one. No! Re-read the Core Beliefs articles. Planar allies should be interesting characters in their own right, as well as being thematically appropriate for your deity of choice. That is neither interesting, nor is it appropriate; it's nothing but a munchkin's wet dream of a summon." :smallannoyed:

SolkaTruesilver
2007-10-07, 06:04 PM
Deja vu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58925) :smallamused:

Quick answer: Ask your DM.

Longer answer: By RAI it would appear to be (although how would you negotiate with it for its services?), by RAW I dunno.

My personal opinion as a DM: "Half-celestial *hydra as a planar ally? Hahahahahaha, that's a good one. No! Re-read the Core Beliefs articles. Planar allies should be interesting characters in their own right, as well as being thematically appropriate for your deity of choice. That is neither interesting, nor is it appropriate; it's nothing but a munchkin's wet dream of a summon." :smallannoyed:

In your example, they are talking about Summon Monster, which already has a set list of possible summons (and thu, a power ladder)

But Planar Binding (and by relation, Planar Ally) just has the HD limitation.

Where does it say that we cannot summon a templated creature? Oh, and don't forget, it's not summonning, it's calling :-P

Finally, Planar Binding specificly says I can choose the specifications of the creature called..

Anxe
2007-10-07, 06:35 PM
It says no templates in some errata somewhere. I think in Complete Arcane. And there is the DM factor of not allowing this.

Thinker
2007-10-07, 07:19 PM
It says no templates in some errata somewhere. I think in Complete Arcane.
If you can't quote it, it doesn't exist.


And there is the DM factor of not allowing this.

The "DM factor" isn't what the person was asking. I'm sorry you might not want to allow it, but that doesn't mean no one or even a majority of people would want the same.

brian c
2007-10-07, 08:03 PM
Hm... I'm looking for the "no summoning templated monsters" rule. In the FAQ, p69 it says you can't use Polymorph to be a templated creature, but the FAQ doesn't have anything about summoning templated monsters.

I assure you though that it has been covered in this forum before, and eventually someone will appear with the correct rules quotation *cough*silvanos*cough*

Firefingers
2007-10-07, 08:38 PM
"Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell’s range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom."

Quote from the spell description, half-celestial doesnt alter the native plane of a creature hence it wouldnt be on another plane and hence isnt a valid target for a summoning spell on the prime material plane.

On other planes it would technically be a valid target.

Starbuck_II
2007-10-07, 10:58 PM
"Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spellís range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom."

Quote from the spell description, half-celestial doesnt alter the native plane of a creature hence it wouldnt be on another plane and hence isnt a valid target for a summoning spell on the prime material plane.

On other planes it would technically be a valid target.

Yet, Celestial changes native plane enough...

Quietus
2007-10-07, 11:26 PM
Deja vu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58925) :smallamused:

Quick answer: Ask your DM.

Longer answer: By RAI it would appear to be (although how would you negotiate with it for its services?), by RAW I dunno.

My personal opinion as a DM: "Half-celestial *hydra as a planar ally? Hahahahahaha, that's a good one. No! Re-read the Core Beliefs articles. Planar allies should be interesting characters in their own right, as well as being thematically appropriate for your deity of choice. That is neither interesting, nor is it appropriate; it's nothing but a munchkin's wet dream of a summon." :smallannoyed:


I'd say a half-fiend multiheaded lizardlike creature would be appropriate if you worshipped Tiamat...

The_Snark
2007-10-08, 01:23 AM
There's a flaw in both spells, which a DM can use to prevent this.

Planar Ally: The deity chooses the creature called, not you. You can request a specific half-celestial pyrohydra, if you know any by name, but your god might not send it.

Planar Binding: You have to bargain with it. The hydra speaks no languages at all; Tongues and telepathy won't work on it. Trying to sign things out would be very, very difficult, given the hydra's 4 Intelligence.

Jacob Orlove
2007-10-08, 02:11 AM
Unfortunately, by RAW, Half-Celestial Pyrohydras speak Common:
(from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm):

Intelligence

A creature can speak all the languages mentioned in its description, plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).
It's dumb, and just as subject to DM fiat as the calling itself, but there you go.

The_Snark
2007-10-08, 02:22 AM
Hmmm, so they do. It can't speak it, however. And I suspect it would want payment in food. 6,000-12,000 GP worth of livestock is a tricky thing to acquire.

Amiria
2007-10-08, 02:49 AM
Hmmm, so they do. It can't speak it, however. And I suspect it would want payment in food. 6,000-12,000 GP worth of livestock is a tricky thing to acquire.

Why ? Just two words for you: Beluga caviar. :smallamused:

The_Snark
2007-10-08, 02:54 AM
The Hydra demands mutton and only mutton! (Also: Error, oviparous whale, reboot universe and try again)

Or, if you were stupid enough to demand a half-fiend variety, it would demand humanoid flesh.