[3.5e/PF] Spells that scale without cap

[ezekielraiden]

I'm playing in a pretty fun Epic PF.5e game (PF rules default where the two conflict, unless expressly defined otherwise; wild shape and shapechange, frex, are 3.5e style), and am about to really take my CL into the stratosphere. Epic spells are tough at present as we (a) cannot use infinite-summoning tricks, (b) have strictly enforced minimum spellcraft DCs, and (c) only make money infrequently (so those XP, time, and gold costs matter). Therefore, I'd like to find out what spells out there have extremely high CL caps, or no cap at all.

As long as the spell explicitly scales and does not explicitly say it has a cap, my DM will probably be cool with it. We have already confirmed that the Spell Compendium spiderskin scales without bound, as it explicitly goes up by 1 for every 3 caster levels you have, and the RAW examples are just that, only examples and not explicitly a cap. But are there any other non-epic spells that do the same? Or that can scale at least up to CL 50ish?

[Kurald Galain]

In Pathfinder, the best I can think of are Irradiate (which deals con drain, so damage is based on its target's hit dice, without cap); and Hellfire Ray (which caps at 45d6, no save; and that's before Intensify Spell). HTH.

[Venger]

here (https://web.archive.org/web/20151009052042/http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1163451) is a list of some in the spellthief handbook

[icefractal]

In PF, Battering Blast scales with no limit, does force damage, and throws in an increasingly large Bull Rush to boot. It does have SR, but you're going for a sky-high CL anyway.

Numerological Evocation is confusingly written, and a very mediocre spell at any CL you'd find in a normal game, but it is uncapped and can do weird damage types like "water" or "air" damage.

[gooddragon1]

I'm playing in a pretty fun Epic PF.5e game (PF rules default where the two conflict, unless expressly defined otherwise; wild shape and shapechange, frex, are 3.5e style), and am about to really take my CL into the stratosphere. Epic spells are tough at present as we (a) cannot use infinite-summoning tricks, (b) have strictly enforced minimum spellcraft DCs, and (c) only make money infrequently (so those XP, time, and gold costs matter). Therefore, I'd like to find out what spells out there have extremely high CL caps, or no cap at all.

As long as the spell explicitly scales and does not explicitly say it has a cap, my DM will probably be cool with it. We have already confirmed that the Spell Compendium spiderskin scales without bound, as it explicitly goes up by 1 for every 3 caster levels you have, and the RAW examples are just that, only examples and not explicitly a cap. But are there any other non-epic spells that do the same? Or that can scale at least up to CL 50ish?

Fire Seeds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireSeeds.htm), use with searing spell to get through resist and immunity.

Slay Living (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm)

Force Missiles

A way to heal all lost HP without epic spells as an arcane caster:
Shapechange (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm)
Into a Stone Golem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#greaterStoneGolem)
Cast Transmute Mud to Rock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transmuteMudToRock.htm) on yourself.

Use a major ring of spell storing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#spellStoringMajor) to allow someone else to benefit from the healing.

You'll need still and silent spell for transmute mud to rock on yourself.

The archmage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/archmage.htm) PrC can convert a slot into damage. Coupled with improved spell capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity), you can increase damage.

Side note: Psionics has lots of powers that scale, but you have to spend more power points.

Other side note: Wanna know who really goes nuts with damage in epic? Crusaders with (Ex) smite and great smiting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greatSmiting).

[Biggus]

There's Venomfire from Serpent Kingdoms and (Greater) Consumptive Field from Spell Compendium. The latter ones are persistable for extra cheese.

[schreier]

Wings of flurry

[Biggus]

Just occurred to me: what class are you? And do you have any ways to access spells from outside your normal class list?

[ezekielraiden]

Thank you, all, for the replies. Good stuff already here and I'm sure more will come. As a note, really wicked/evil/murdery spells are probably off the table due to being radically out of character.


Just occurred to me: what class are you? And do you have any ways to access spells from outside your normal class list?

Epic gestalt "Human" Druid/Wizard (SAD, Int druid casting via feat) using Librim Eternia options. Quotes around "human" because I'm now an Outsider *and* look like a draconic humanoid due to my Drifts, so it's only human by origin now. My build is:

A side: Druid (Menhir Savant) 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Druid +5/High Proselyizer 1
B side: Wizard (Exploiter) 5/Geomancer 10/Archmage 5/Cosmic Descryer 1

I have been allowed to take the Leadership domain rather than a normal Druid domain, and (with some limitations, esp. in combat) I can use Sacred Geometry, and have approval for 3.5e style Persistent Spell. As a result, even though I have a lot of persistent buffs, they don't take up many high-level slots. (I actually find myself running out of Druid 2nd and 3rd slots, rather than 8ths or 9ths!) I also have (via SG) Extend, PF-style Intensify, and Quicken. Feats are fairly tight for this build; there are only two I could potentially give up (Eldritch Heritage: Arcane and Improved Familiar: Pseudodragon, but I'd really like to keep them if at all possible). As noted, I'm purely SAD: because of Geomancer 10, I have Spell Versatility 0-9, and thus can determine my DCs for all spells with intelligence; because I took Academic Priest at level 1, I can determine everything about my Druid spells *except* DCs using Int. Given Geomancer allows such blending of arcane and divine, most CL boosting effects have been ruled to stack together freely, unless there's a clear reason they shouldn't.

Overall theme is a dragon-affiliated scholar of all things planar and magical, tapping into the ley lines that are the "written" words of creation, inscribed (according to Draconic creation myths) by Apsu and Tiamat at the formation of the world. Menhir Savant, Exploiter, Sacred Geometry, Geomancer, and even Planar Shepherd all feed into this concept (which is a large part of why I've gotten the approval for much of this--that and I'm not nearly the most optimized character there.) Char is the Chosen of Apsu, bearer of the Word of Creation, healer of damaged worlds, scholar and priest of all lands in all planes, and (now) slayer of darkness.

Druid is mostly providing a chassis, a bit of healing, and good buffs, though I also summon a lot with it (ring of natural attunement: kami for the win), while Wizard is full of utility spells and raw damage, though both contribute to all of those in their own ways. I have Spell Focus: Conjuration and SF: Transmutation (to qualify for Archmage), so spells from those schools are preferred but not required. My High Arcana picks are spell power (+1 CL), arcane reach (free Reach Spell), master of shaping (to spare allies from my offensive spells), master of elements (free Energy Substitution, including Sonic), and SLA (shapechange--not at all redundant with Druid/PShep, as it grants wider variety but less power, and has already saved my bacon twice now.)

Next level I'll hit effective Druid level 22 and be able to wild shape into a Solar via PShep, with all its Ex, Su, and Sp abilities, so free 1/day wish and 3/day permanency are on the table. You can bet your britches I'll be IC hyperfocusing the development of a personal demiplane once I have that. Safe, secluded, warded in damn near every way I can think of, and inimical to creatures that would wish to do me or my followers (a mix of druids, wizards, and worshippers of Apsu) any harm. Plus, Solar SLAs fill the one hole Druid has, providing easy access to resurrection.

That should be most everything. Sorry for the long post. Theme is actually pretty important for me with this character so I felt I should be clear about it.

[Efrate]

Maw of chaos is uncapped.

[ezekielraiden]

Maw of chaos is uncapped.

Indeed it is--it's mentioned in the Spellthief guide. But I appreciate your mention nonetheless, as it's far too easy for a good option to simply get overlooked.

I also found another spell that is uncapped: PF's true skill. At the CLs I can reach, it's equivalent to a less-flexible but equally powerful moment of prescience...and I'd say getting something only *slightly* worse than an 8th level spell, using a 1st level slot, is pretty damn good.