View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Streetbrawler Rogue Archetype

2019-06-21, 02:57 AM
Here is the link to the subclass on Homebrewery: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BybtG-ot1S

What this is, is a recent attempt to whip up an unarmed rogue. I always liked the idea and wanted to try (again) to see if I could do it.

This particular variety is partly based on the French martial art, Savate. It is a hard, striking style of boxing that employs kicks and slaps. Closed fists were considered deadly weapons, after all, so the French sailors who created it wanted to avoid getting a more severe penalty for fighting. It also employs dirty fighting, because sailors. I also added another French peculiarity, specifically Parkour, as a fun exploration ability in the class.

I'm sleepy now, but I hope someone likes the class enough to tell me what's good/awful about it so I can work some more on it.

2019-06-21, 07:44 AM
I get what you're going for. It's a shame you missed a recent contest -- this guy looks like a good "rogue with a handful of monk" entry.

I'm not sure about Cunning Blow so I need clarification. Can you:

A) Use your Cunning Action as a bonus action to make an extra unarmed attack? Because I'm not sure I like a rogue having that at only third level when everyone else waits till fifth. (Actually, I'm not a fan of rogues having extra attacks at all, but this is an unarmed attack we're talking about so it's probably okay later on)


B) Use your Cunning Action to augment your normal attack you get every turn, in which case, the rogue could just use their Cunning Action to Disengage and wouldn't need to make the attack roll?

You also need some cleanup work in Du Rue. I don't care what nonmagical skills your brawler has, he's not throwing a Huge-sized dragon fifteen feet.

And I suspect you'd want to touch up Knockout Punch since a fair number of D&D monsters don't actually get knocked out.

2019-06-21, 08:04 AM
Savate - So, first thing here. Don't make a Rogue's unarmed strike follow the same pattern as a monk. That is the Monks shtick. If you want some progression that is fine, make it move from 1d4 to 1d6 and leave it there. Realistically though, a rogue gains more their damage progression through sneak attack dice so it really isn't needed at all.

I'm also not a huge fan of allowing sneak attacks with longswords. That gives the Rogue (who doesn't get shields) a 1d10 sneak attack option with versatile attacks. Keeping it to simple, without the two handed property keeps the damage dice in line with the normal damage dice of a rogue. You just get more options with this. I would also consider allowing this rogue to sneak attack with improvised weapons. Surely a Street Brawler would know how to do that with a broken bottle or a chair leg!

Cunning Blow - This is just to much with everything else. This should be unarmed strike as a bonus action or no AoOs. With the Savate and Street Smart you are overloading level 3. I get what you are looking for in a mobile character, but a Rogue can do already do that with a bonus action disengage if they choose. I would actually drop the ability completely and let the subclass ride without it.

Street Smart - This is a great ability for this subclass. Kind of a combination of the urchin background and ranger favored terrain. If you were to drop cunning blow, I would actually add onto it that a Rogue in their turf can't be surprised.

Knockout Blow - Even for a capstone this feels like to much for a rogue. I get that you are trying to replicate the open hand quivering palm, but that is widely considered one of the best capstones and is on a class that tends to be less offensive than a rogue is naturally. I would re-look at this one and try and come up with something else. If you aren't going to get rid of it completely, make it long rest only please.

If you want to keep the same feel about it. Make the unarmed strike automatically cast the sleep spell targeting the hit target only at a 4th level spell (11d8). Then you can skill knock someone out, and you have a darn good chance with 11d8. With this you could even make it short rest based.

I've always lover the brawler style rogue and feel that is is a missing aspect of the class in 5e. I think this is a good implementation of it, but it needs to be tightened up and toned down a little bit.

2019-06-21, 01:49 PM
I'd put a cap on knock out. Maybe the monsters current hp must be less than your max sneak attack roll. For example 7d6 sneak at level 13. Therefor if target has more than 42 hp ability fails

Sorry my Auto correct xD

2019-06-21, 03:52 PM
Alright, lot of nice replies. Let's go down the list.

Cunning Blow
Looks like everyone seems to think this should go. I will remove and see how the class shakes up.

Savate Damage Dice
I was persuaded to keep the monk damage progression. I can see how that might be an issue, so I will lower it to a D8 maximum.

Longswords and Sneak Attack
I've always hated how Rogues get longsword proficiency, but it can't benefit from their main class feature. It's a stupid element of the game, and a 1 or 2 extra points of damage don't unbalance anything. That being said, I suppose this isn't the brew to fix that. So instead I will take the idea to allow sneak attack on improvised weapons.

Du Rue
Size restrictions will be applied.

I like the idea of tying Knockout to Sneak Attack dice, so I will be adding that.

Changes are up. Let me know what you all think.

2019-06-21, 04:35 PM
With regards to cunning blow, I would cap their punch at a d6. They can do second attack. Total both attacks are 2d6 (better than regular rogue) and they have a second chance at sneak attack. I think this is ok.
Doing more than their normal sword is not ok. And that's why I have a problem with it.

Takes a bonus action - good, so they can't abuse it.
But this should be their lv 9 ability.

What i'd do is combine parkour into their lv 3 when attuned to city ability. Then put bonus action unarmed at lv 9.

2019-06-21, 05:25 PM
Doing more than their normal sword is not ok. And that's why I have a problem with it.

I mean...rapier deals 1d8.

Takes a bonus action - good, so they can't abuse it.
But this should be their lv 9 ability.

What i'd do is combine parkour into their lv 3 when attuned to city ability. Then put bonus action unarmed at lv 9.

I've heard people say this before. My only concern is making Street Smart too bloated with features, and I really liked Parkour since it plays off the French theme. What elements of SS should I remove to make room if I combine it and Parkour?

2019-06-24, 02:43 PM
Alright. It should be updated and complete. Please let me know what you think.