View Full Version : At Your Gaming Table

2007-10-07, 01:06 PM
After ending up partially-spamming a couple topics with this info, I decided, you know what, why not give it its own thread? Try to post in the following format (keep in mind that names have been changed to assauge my paranoia) -

The Table - Everyone keeps their dice on top of their sheets because the table can barely fit the washable map. We keep a Yahtzee! lid to roll dice in. Most of the time, we're all over various couches, chairs, and sections of the floor, with food. At my end of the table there is a needle and thread in case of injury (time has taught us the necessity of having that nearby).

The Group - I DM, as the only one inclined to do so. Sploosh (he named his barbarian character after the illithid warrior his father slew in combat) plays barbarians exclusively, and does it rather well. I've been working on training him to not fight to the death every time - sometimes, running is good. Kralix plays rogues and sorcerers, often both in the same character, and is a fellow knife-fighter. He and I are the reason we keep the thread around - while the game may be at Sploosh's house, that house has enough blades to insure that temper tantrums wound people. Talys often plays fighters and clerics, and is the most level-headed and mature of us, though he'll make dirty jokes like a champion (possibly because he's the only one who's ever actually gotten any). Kalria, the only girl in the group and Kalix's girlfriend, usually plays rogues or psionicists, and Sploosh inevitably ends up trying to sleep with her character. Somehow, no one ever thinks the joke is old - possibly because she keeps killing his characters.

Table Behavior - Jokes are common, especially immediate ones about things that just happened. They're usually side-splitting, but you gotta be there to get them. We also keep a journal of Badass Moments, including but not limited to - Sploosh killing eight goblins with a door, Kralix's Uber-Reflex-Save-Of-Doom, and the time Kalria slept with a dragon so the rest of the party could assasinate him (I gave her bonus XP for creativity, and truly taking one for the team). The words, "Alright, back to the game," get said often, but we have fun, even if they only advance a few rooms or two before the end of the session.

Then again, the rooms are heavily trapped and monster laden, so that might be my fault.

Out of Game - We have fun. Kralix and Kalria are both stoners, so Sploosh, Talys and I usually toss around bets as we wonder what'll happen when they emerge from the official weed room. We all participate in Dagorhir, and Kalrix and I are occasionally goaded or paid into having a first-blood knife fight, which usually makes us signifigantly richer (well, 'signifigantly' as defined by poor-ass D&D nerds). We often swap IRL favors for IG behaviors ("If I get you some monsters, will you not charge into the next room before I check for traps?"), also leading to Sploosh and Kalrix showing up at my door at random with Arby's and the battlecry, "DM bribe!".

2007-10-07, 01:23 PM
Ok. DO you want us to comment on your group or tell you about our own group?

2007-10-07, 01:26 PM
*Shrugs* One or both, as you see fit. Word to the wise, though, I comment on everything ^_^

2007-10-07, 02:03 PM
Ok your gming group does seem quite normal as gaming groups go.

My Gaming group

Cramped because there are 8 of us incl. DM. Usually use a small map and everybody looks after their own character sheet.

Sexy_Ochre_Jelly - the DM. Likes roleplaying and nerfing but is generally a good DM. Alignment - N

PlatinumJester - me (OMFG). Party power gamer who sucks at writing back stories and roleplaying. Comic relief of party since he usually does stupid things before hating the consequences. The guy who always tries to screw bar girls and intimidate people. Generally lucky at incredibly when he needs it the most (and sometimes the least). Alignment - CN

Wraithy - likes skill monkies and dextrous characters who MUST be lawful as well as homebrewing. Hates everything else and chaotic people. Doesn't eat Pizza which is annoying. Also has a Kobold fetish. Alignment - LN

CrazedGoblin - plays a a Kuo Toa Bard and is still waiting to get an actual level of bard. A basic generalist. Alignement - N.

The Mexican Monk - other comic relief. Has a monk fetish and thinks fighters are overpowered. Basically just sits there a reads splat books until it's his turn. When asked what he id doing he claims to be meditating before continuing his reading. Tends to quote you on books that he has never read e.g. he claimed to me that Warblades could use Desert Wind school despite me playing a Warblade and him never even reading ToB. Alignment - N (due to 3 Int).

The Other Ginger - cool guy who is a closet nerd. Has only ever played a sorcerer and a Gnoll Ranger. Became third comic relief after being hit twice by high volscity **** and falling off of a wall and knocking himslef out. Alignment - NG.

Hippy_Dwarf - plays unusual characters such as Ardents and Totemists. Has a crystal fetish and one of his characters lead to the death of a party member due to an argument over him ripping up the Wizards scrolls. Alignment - CN (the uncool kind).

The Newbie - calm guy who plays characters with D6 HD or with Sneak Attack. Has found his calling in DnD which is the Warlock class which he seems to be into a lot. I don't have the heart to tell him they are underpowered but so far he has been one of the most helpful characters in the recent campaign being the only other person in the party not to ***** out or knock himself out during a boss fight. Alignment - NG.

The New New Guy - veteran player who isn't part of our group but will be if someone leaves. Went to an all boys school which tends to be mocked quite a bit though it rarely goes to far. Alignement - ???

Table Behaviour

Quite good though insults and impressions re usually spewed at each other. Occasional argument between Wraithy and The Mexican Monk.

Out of Game

We all go to the same college except for the Other Giner who used to go to our school. We are all pretty tight except for the Mexican Monk who usually argues with Hippy_Dwarf and Wraithy but is friends with the other guys.

2007-10-07, 03:12 PM
The Table - We typically use either a small map or none at all, so we use a small table (Think bedside) with an old combination whiteboard-noteboard on top as our delicately-balanced table. Dice rolls are usually done on top of it, so that everyone can see. Books are kept to eachother unless someone else doesn't have a copy, so they take up less space.

The Group - As the most experience, I always DM, though there have been attempts to give me a session off to be a player. Ordinarily, there's one or two players, our legerdemain powergamer that works for the most powerful character without knowing too much about the rules. He often has what we call "Eureka moments", in which he tries something or something goes hideously wrong, only for him to remember some bit about his character that could save the whole group. Our more sporadically-attending player is our rules-lawyer and powergamer, who normally plays ninja-esque characters or ones with tricked out abilities (He's presently playing Thomas (Andrew) River, which is basically River Tam and Neo in one, complete with semi-automatic hand crossbows). Strangely, we have a third player who has an odd tendency to only show up for sessions when they've been cancelled, despite prompting from everyone each non-cancelled week to show up. He complains often that his character is half the level of everyone else :smallannoyed:

Table Behavior - We have a slight tendency to drift onto strange topics, like human-undead reproduction and what happens with a redeemed Succubus and such, and jokes, especially ones with Uber-Geek level references, are very common. Overall, we always manage to get back to the situation at hand, but there's always a distinct lack of serious concern for impending doom unless I've built the situation towards it (Like when I had a BBEG steal the party's ship, which they were still paying off)

Out of Game - We all enjoy our other games, especially action multiplayer games, we have a pretty tightly knit social circle.

2007-10-07, 03:35 PM
The Table

We play on a pool table. Gives the whole thing a Vegas sort of feel.

The Group

None of them have ever played D&D before, so there's a lot of me trying to explain various mechanics and people poring over character sheets for various info. Despite having a warblade and a blaster sorc, they like talking to people, though everyone enjoys a solid bout of hack 'n' slash.

Table Behavior

I keep a Nerf gun next to me at all times in order to maintain order. I use it frequently.

Out of Game

We're all pals. What more can I say? D&D night is like any other night, but with D&D instead of watching movies or hanging around doing nothing.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 04:55 PM
The Table:

A big round table (no King arthur or Monty Python jokes, I've had enough "nobody expects the spanish inquisition!") at my house, a huge dinner table at the other DM's house. We're considering buying a megaphone, because that table is HUGE.

The Group:

Names changed, 'cept for "mine".

Wingdark: My co-DM, and was my mentor. Utterly brilliant, I still don't know why he hasn't been called by WoTC. It'd make D&D so much better. When he uses his PC (I REFUSE to call him DMPC. He doesn't use no cheese, so it's a common PC), it's a human NG paladin. In our table, those alignment rules for pally and monk are changed, they can be neutral good too. Like all of us, has normal and epic leadership, and a handful of low level epics doing errands for him. He's ECL 99, and likely has some crazy LA, like all of us.

Rainleash: One of the PC only players, he mans a wizard. Surprisingly, the groups weakest member: if we need to do something, one of us has that spell in an item, and I alone do enough damage to dispatch most any enemy in 2 rounds. He plays a kind of batman wizard, CG with strong NG tendencies.

Fivestring: the second PC only player, he plays a rogue who can steal tiny bits of the fabrics of the multiverse and use them with UMD once per game week. A LG rogue (another abolished restriction, rogues have always been LE and LN, why not LG?), who has earned the nickname of "Thief of Pun-Pun's skills" at the table. 'Course, he hasn't stole them, but it says a lot of his prowess.

Azerian: Me, obviously. I play a NG swordsage/warblade/crusader/human paragon/I must be forgetting something. I'm a level higher than the rest, at level 100. And I'm still wondering why haven't we taken over the multiverse and maybe Sigil. If we follow the books, Asmodeus is a super easy encounter, so we should be lord of heaven and hell by now.

Table behavior: pretty serious and orderly. A loooooooong time has passed, so we know each other and have mostly cut it with the stupid behaviors. Though we ocasionally play joke sessions were anything goes. By our level, we don't need nerfs or anything, exalted cheese seems like Dilligent to us.

Out of game: We're close buddies, and we have known each other for ages. I expect that, if another year goes by with everyone still being friends to everyone, we'll develop a telepathic bond :smallbiggrin: .

2007-10-07, 04:59 PM
^ ^ Because the Lady Pain could whoop all your asses with a thought. Gotta love statless being - there's a section in a book called, "Fighting Lady Pain". It has one sentence.

"You lose."


Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 05:03 PM
We have an answer to that. Wishes.

Wishes 1, 2, 3, 4: transform to Kobolds.

Wishes 5, 6, 7, 8: Exchange levels for levels in Psion, and wizard for a Viper familiar.

Wish 9: Summon a sarrukh.

Wish 10: Used after going Pun-Pun. Wish for more wishes. if the wish refuses, just go Pun-Pun.

We become ladies of pain. We win.

Duelists say: Touchè!

2007-10-07, 05:26 PM
Duelists say: Touchè!

Touchè! Indeed we do, sir.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 05:45 PM
Seriously, by my group's level, if we follow the rules, AO is cowering in fear of us, because he knows we can kick his ass with the flick of a finger, and the lady is our whore. That's the reason we have maybe one real combat every two levels, and almost all the xp is gained from RP'ing.

2007-10-07, 05:50 PM
I started regretting the suggestion of using Wish to attain Pun-pun state about ten minutes after I made the post...

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 05:53 PM
Then, miracles. If the gods don't change us to pun pun's, we go and kick their asses. And BTW, we play our own version of exalted, which is not as shortsighter and stupid (sacrificing yourself to save worlds is evil, because evil has won a player, even when it would have amassed far more power from the dead people's souls. PSHAW!), so we couldn't do that anyway.

2007-10-07, 05:56 PM
Here's the flaw in your theory - Pun Pun has stats. Any being with statistics is subject to the rule of, "You lose." And Ao doesn't have stats either, and also has a similar rule - so if you get too out of line, or someone just wants to start a new campaign, guess who can lay the smack down with a single cosmic thought?

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 06:00 PM
Four words, two full stops:

One feat.

I Win.

'Nuff said. That feat instantly makes you as powerful as AO or the lady.

Rogue 7
2007-10-07, 06:43 PM
Just started, but there's a distinct flavor to our group. I'm a new member, so the older guys have their own thing, but our game has several new folk (me included, obviously), so it's good fun
The table- a decently sized table with a battle-mat, and character sheets and books scattered all around. We're in our club's office, so there's a lot of random stuff just scattered about- books and miniatures and the like. Quite cramped. Monsters, maps and the like are kept on the DM's laptop.

The group-

DM- He's a good guy, seems to be very into Zelda-esque puzzles in his dungeons, at least from the first few sessions. Not the most descriptive guy I've ever met, but I can't find any problems. Also apparantly into really hard encounters. No evidence of this so far, but time will tell. Out of game, I don't know him very well, but seems a nice guy.

Hobbes II- plays a neutral? evil, 12-year old, 2 ft. hobbit. Prone to theivery and looting, and displays a distinct lack of sense. Doesn't like my character, and I don't like him back (I'm a NG cleric). Does random stuff just for the hell of it, which can be very fun. For example, last game, we're in a deserted temple-library thing, with several locked doors, but a way to get to all of them. The hobbit's done his own thing, and he's now breaking a door down. OOC, I know it's hobbit boy (as I'm prone to calling him), but IC, I decide I don't, so I ready my crossbow and shoot him as he comes through the door. Boy, that made him mad, especially when his return fire missed. My attempts to stop him theiving also did not endear him to me. This relationship has the possibility to be very amusing. OOC, I really don't know him, but he seems a nice guy.

Efim- wizard, likes to mess around, but doesn't do much. Came up with the idea that got us further, but time will tell. OOC, he's a new guy, and seems cool.

Monk- didn't say a word the whole session, and was considering taking a vow of silence to represent it. He was serious, too- he didn't really have any idea what to do, so just kept his mouth shut. OOC, he's fairly quiet, too, but again a good guy- He's the only one I really know well outside of the game.

Me- I'm a cleric, and don't have much idea what I'm doing. I'm somehow taking a leadership role, but that may be because I've got a tendency to talk and shout orders. Need to work on that.

2007-10-07, 06:47 PM
Hey, if you're inclined to try and lead, by all means, do so. Trust me, it's better to have a "defined" (if unofficial) party leader than none at all, even if said leader turns out later to be a total moron.

Azerian - No. Just...no. I'd comment on some of the changes you made to flavor (Monks are not nuetral instead of lawful, exalted is that way for a very good reason) but I'll instead choose not to in order to gain a standard action to shout this at you - START A NEW CAMPAIGN! :P

Rogue 7
2007-10-07, 07:00 PM
Meh, sometimes I feel like I do that a lot, and that I don't know when to fade into the background- it's something to be aware of, if nothing else, both in-game and in real life. I'm also concerned about the "newbie" taking command over the heads of more experienced members, but no one's really ad a problem.

2007-10-07, 07:07 PM
The Table:
We used to play on a medium table at Klepto's house. Currently due to transportation problems we are using GameTable a free online D&D program. It works well but it is hard not to miss the old days. There is only ever at most 4 of us including DM.

Klepto: Our RPDM I use the term very loosely. When Klepto is a pc however he will steal whatever is not nailed down. He is comedy relief 2nd to me. Klepto almost always plays a caster of some sort but being the most experienced he will fill any major holes in the group if no one else is playing one. Klepto's most notable character would be a crazed gnome wizard who with the help of my most notable character destroyed a Ebboron continent while magically inserting a demon into into my pants. His character also had a a artifact we officially names batman's utility belt it allowed and mundane item he could ever need out of a pouch no bigger than his thumb. Klepto's alignment is CN.

Glenwick: Glenwick is our rules DM he is the one who knows all the rules and enforces them. Glenwick is always a caster of some sort having a special love of psions and wizards. On the rare occasion he will play something else but he plays a very casterized version of it. Glenwick loves Ebboron if he is DMing we are most likely playing Ebboron. Glenwick is also our groups tech support he makes sure GameTable is up and running right for play. Most notable character is his current dwarf homebrew caster class. Mix between a warblade and a wizard. Glenwick's alignment is NG whenever I try something fun he is LG however.

ME: I am the comedy relief of the group. I have never been DM something about the group not trusting me with that kind of power. I am a dwarf at heart if a dwarf can be used for any build I make it will be. I am the specialty fighter type I love monks/soulblades and things like that. My characters are frequently thrown in jail. Any others characters in the party always beef up the diplomacy skill for my trial. My most notable character is my dwarf monk/drunken master. I am named after him with Kleptos help he destroyed a Ebboron continent. I think I am CG but the rest of the group says I am NE.

Thats the main group i feel i should make two honorable mentions however.

:smallfrown: Glenwick's Sister: Only female player, is only a on/off player right now. She misses many games because she is sick with the WoW (World of Warcraft) illness.

:smallfrown: Pyro: A good friend and brave warrior taken down in his prime by the WoW illness.

Table Behavior:
It is next to impossible for us to RP seriously because whenever it is attempted a bad joke/insult is sure to follow. We all have fun, to ensure that we don't have to much fun the DM always have something soft to throw at us when we play in-person.

Out of Game:
We are all close friends and have been for a good few years. We are a well balanced group but we were hurt by the loss of Pyro.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 07:08 PM
Start a new campaign? When we are faced with REALLY tough ethical and moral choices, not to mention the occasional battle against all odds with a truly powerful foe (like, say, a construct who became intelligent and stole the powers of several greater gods)? Change all of that for orc slaying and fighting level 3 fighters as BBEG's? HELL NO. My co-players would kill me if I suggested that.

And as for the other things:

1) alignment issues: Well, of course, certain restriction MUST be, such as blackguards being evil, but others make no sense. So, just because I'm COMPLETELY DEVOTED to good, with no ties of law and chaos binding me, I'm not focused enough? That doesn't make the slightest sense. If anything, I should be SUGGESTED to take that approach.

2) Exalted: Well, let me tell you what exalted says. Basically, if you Submit to being turned evil, even to save a whole world from being consumed, you're evil and unfit to be exalted? BS. So, personal purity is more important than the good of all, that's what exalted says. Which is not good at all, but evillish.

2007-10-07, 07:14 PM
This is D&D, not real life. In real life, good and evil are mostly objective. In D&D, they are black-and-white forces that define the cosmos. As such, an evil act is an evil act is an evil act is an evil act is an evil act no matter why you perform it or how many lives you save while doing so. If torturing the High Priest of Hextor grants you the info you need to save the city of Grayhawk, congratulations - but it was still evil. If you use the objective approach to good and evil, you just threw out a metric ass-ton of classes and prestige classes.

Also, I have no problem with paladins of different alignments (and am actually a rather large fan of the Paladin of Freedom variant). However, Monks are -lawful- for a reason. Go find me a Xiolin Priest in real life and tell me that guy is chaotic or nuetral. The amount of self-discipline it takes a D&D monk to develop movie-style martial arts is incredible - not only encouraging, but NECESSITATING a lawful mindset.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 07:27 PM
How does it necesitate a lawful mindset? I'm mostly chaotic or neutral, yet I have a lifeplan that has mostly everything (barring freak accidents and strikes of luck) covered, and that ranges 30 years into the future...and mind you, I'm 15. It likely has holes, and lots of 'em, but even so, that's what you'd typically label as LAWFUL! right away. 'Splain how that differs from learning a tremendously focused and complicated way of thought and body. And BTW, my group blatantly screws on Monte cook's, Skip William's, and Jonathan Tweet's idea of good 'n evil not being cause and consequence dependent. We play good and evil as what they are, forces that drive us, and not as powers-that-be who follow a mindset and screw you if you're not with 'em.

PS: Oh, and in the example I mentioned, it DIDN'T deal with inflicting something on others, but on yourself. As RAW'ed by exalted, if I let darkness consume me to save a world, I'm an evil bastard. Doesn't make sense, since it even kills the goodness in Ghandi, Jesuschrist, M. Luther King, and more or less every saint and good man if you follow those ideas.

2007-10-07, 07:37 PM
For the millionth time said - D&D =/= equal real life, and attempts to compare the two are both futile and ineffective. We live in a world where good and evil are objective. D&D IS NOT THAT WORLD *smacks*. If you want objective good and evil, play D20 Modern. Until then, evil is evil, no matter what - every lie spoken, every friend betrayed, every cultist tortured, any evil act you do is an evil act, no matter how good the cause, and performing an evil act causes you to lose exalted feats and PrCs. It's as simple as that - just like any evil act causes a non-Gray Guard paladin to lose their class features.

And wholeheartedly going to evil, even to save a world? That's FRICKIN' EVIL. DUH. Performing a single evil act to save a world? Still an evil act, but you yourself are probably not an evil bastard.

Why are monks lawful? Okay, let me put it to you this way - go train in martial arts for the rest of your life and devote every last inch of your being to martial perfection and self-enlightenment. And never waver in that quest for your version of self-enlightenment at all. That's why monks are lawful, because that's what every monk is after - every monk that isn't just dipping one to four levels, anyway. They seek ultimate understanding and through it, self-perfection. And what alignment is "perfection" associated with? If you said, "Law!" you won the prize!

2007-10-07, 07:47 PM
The Table - Local gaming store. a large piece of glass sitting on a table which has squares painted on the face lying down, so that the face up side can be drawn all over because you can see the painted lines through the glass.

my DM screen is one i made myself, includes all the tables I want, like encounters by level table, XP table, treasure per encounter table, the few skills that appear often with variable DCs (climb, jump etc.) and a initiative table. this is completely covered in contact so i can be written over in marker and rubbed off after.

The Group -

a roster of around 15+ people that can be playing at any one time. traditionally we have two games going, 1 D&D and 1 "other" that could be spycraft, shadowrun, nWOD, etc. if we could get everyone to show up regularly we could run three games at once.

skill range varies from the NOOB (as opposed to Newb) to the twink. mostly the very experienced players are down the other end of the room playing the notD&D game rather than powergaming through D&D.

Table Behavior -

overall positive, my parties can go to completely unexpected places and come up with some seriously weird PCs at times but its always in good fun.

because the full roster is made up of smaller groups of friends who used to play together we get this crazy mix of references that overlap between those in our shared gaming sessions and those that happened years before to previous groups, for example i reference to grimlocks or monkeys and my friends will laugh but i can pull the colossal red dragon mini and everyone laughs.

Out of Game -

there are nights where we will stand outside the store for 2 hours after a 4+ hour gaming session discussing everything from videogames to more D&D, movies, etc.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 07:55 PM
No use explaining this to you, Gareth. You forget that rule -1 (which even overrides rule 0) is "common sense and having fun is more important than other things". Emphasis common sense. And actually D&D and real world mix well on most things, but some are blatantly different.

But this is fruitless. As a last attempt to clarify things, this is how exalted works: If you have a paladin, you HAVE to play Miko Miyazaki. If not, you'll lose your special powers. 'Nuff said, m'dear whelp.

2007-10-07, 08:04 PM
Umm - not true. If you remember, Miko fell. She wasn't anywhere close to exalted. So, let's describe what Exalted Lawful Good would really be like -

Lawful Good characters believe that morality can be legislated and that laws can and should be used for the greater good. They still retain the defining characteristics of both alignments, but let's examine good for now - altruisim, the respect for the life and dignity of sentient beings, mercy, putting others before one's self, and mercy. So, what does all this mean? It means an exalted lawful good character will spare enemies who surrender, enforce laws whenever it is right to do so and uphold them at all other times, never lie, cheat, or steal, and fight corrupt political systems by using the laws themselves, not violence.

Miko did none of these. She was a fanatic who sought to bend others to her way of thinking rather than respecting their views as sentient creatures (she doesn't have to -like- Chaotic Good, but she does have to -respect- it). Further, she leapt to her own conclusions despite any evidence to the contrary and comitted several evil acts, not the least of which being the murder of her liege lord, because of these erronous beliefs. She lost paladin class features and well and surely deserved it.

I reccomend you re-read your Book of Exalted Deeds again, and keep in mind that Exalted is an incredibly high standard of good - one does not need to be exalted to call oneself good. Pay very close attention to its definitions of good, and what exalted deeds are, especially mercy, redemption, forgiveness, and self-sacrifice. Ask yourself if your characters truly serve as shining beacons of those virtues - and remember that any evil act, no matter how good the reason, is a taint on the absolute purity that Exalted is intended to represent, and therefore elminates those feats.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 08:14 PM
That's a major beef on exalted. A single taint is enough to -theoretically- eliminate 20 levels of work. A single taint, even a minor one like picking a coin and keeping it, simply because you didn't think about bringing it somewhere where it could be returned to it's owner, is enough to kill a char.

But yeah, what I tried to represent with Miko is how Exalted asks you to go to outsider levels of goodness, or somesuch, or you lose your powers. Exalted doesn't care that not lying about the place where a trap was set will damn the world, and that the greater good and not some petty bit of it would be served by lying (and thus "tainting" your lawful good status). It just takes it away, and screw you afterwards, it says. Heck, Good and Evil aren't static. Powerful, yes, but not static. Even Exalted admits that most "always" X alignment mobs can be changed, that not all is fixed. Greater good wasn't taken into account on Exalted (but greater Evil mostly was taken into account in Vile, which is a bad thing), which destroys notions of real good. Heck, for a good example, spiderman succumbed to venom, which would have meant he instantly lost his exalted feats. However, his powers increased, not decreased from that, and he actually chose to weaken himself by removing venom and staying true to his ideology, even if it meant weakening himself. That's Exalted, in my opinion, and not what that half-baked splatbook tried to do.

2007-10-07, 08:25 PM
Again - Exalted is supposed to be -the- highest standard. But if you put all 20 levels of your feats into Exalted feats, well, good luck with that, you'll probably just die before having to worry about falling.

You're sort of missing the difference between, "Exalted" and "Good". The WHOLE POINT of Exalted -is- Outsider levels of goodness. It's the absolute highest standard of good, and if you, as a player, don't believe you can handle that, don't use the material.

Your Spiderman example - he wasn't exalted to begin with. While he didn't become evil by taking Venom, he would have by choosing to keep him at the cost of others. Instead, after realizing Venom's true nature, gave him up in order to protect others - that's Good.

Again, re-read the book, and remember, just like Real life =/= D&D, Good =/= equal Exalted.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 08:32 PM
Hmmm. I think I've found the problem. There are two exalted deeds. The ones mentioned in the book talk about ideal good. The other deeds, however, are those that require you to forsake being a celestial, and rather be a human/other race. A true paragon of mortal goodness. Say, if you use the example I've used extensively previously, which is lying and saving the world, and being honest and damning it, the books exalted deed would be to damn the world. You've lost the war, but the battle was won. The other exalted deed would be lying and saving the world. You might have lost the last skirmish, but you've won the war. That, I think, is the trick with Exalted deeds.

2007-10-07, 08:39 PM
Not quite, but close. Lemme explain just a bit -

"Good" implies altruisim, respect for life, and concern about the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters put others before themselves.

That's from the PhB. Any character who does that most of the time can be called good. Specific goods acts are - helping others, charity, healing, personal sacrifice, worshipping good deities, casting good spells, mercy, forgiveness, bringing hope, and redeeming evil.

Is your Nuetral Good rogue going to become evil because he lied to that orc warlord? No. Was the act in and of itself evil? Yes.

"Exalted" characters follow the highest standards of good. To them, those acts above are codes to live by constantly and forms of behavior to promote, exemplify, and teach others. An exalted character does good whenever he or she can, wherever he or she can, and makes no exceptions. While the NG rogue I mentioned above might seek vengance upon the bandit who killed his best friend, ignoring any surrender or pleas for mercy and still be considered "good", an exalted character is bound to honor that surrender, spare the bandit's life, and bring him or her to justice. The difference between the standards of "good" and "exalted" is one of absolutes - you can be good without being exalted. However, one ceases to be exalted (though not necessarily ceases to be good) the moment you commit an evil act - because you have slipped from those high standards.

Exalted is meant to be hard to maintain. It's supposed to be the absolute pinnacle of what good is. That's why it's so demanding - because becoming a near-manifestation of those standards of good is difficult.

Get what I mean now?

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 08:45 PM
Half-Half. Interestingly, the BovD speaks of what's relative and objective evil. It says how, in one culture, X is evil, and how in objectiveness, X is not. However, it avoids speaking of the middle step. While in real life some things might be shunned upon, more or less everyone coincides on what's evil and not. In RL, for example, 99% of the population will tell you killing indiscriminately is evil. Sure, this could be cultural, but it seems to me more like this kinds of things are what good and evil actually are. That they DO exist, and simply don't have spells that make them so hard to actually make reasonable.

2007-10-07, 08:48 PM
The BoVD also specifically states that an objective alignment system is a variant that they do not reccomend for use in a D&D game. However, it does talk about how evil people don't always see themselves as evil, and does provide examples. However, one typically knows when you're exalted or not, if only because that halo that's been on your head since you took Nimbus of Light just switched off for shanking that bandit.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-07, 08:49 PM
heh, nice joke. But it's good we could settle this.

PS: BTW, being nitpicky, BovD says D&D uses the objective alignment system. Odd, indeed.

2007-10-07, 08:52 PM
How did this go from a discussion of your personal Gaming groups to a argument about what defines morality?

2007-10-07, 08:54 PM
When I nitpicked his change of the Exalted rules.

Also, I keep mixing things up, my bad - "Objective" means evil is evil, good is good, law is law, chaos is chaos, no matter what. It makes Holy Smite, Desecrate, and Dispel Law work.

The -other- system is the one more like the real world. Again, my bad.

2007-10-07, 08:56 PM
The way I do it is if someone is doing something evil they detect as evil and anti-evil stuff works on them. If they do something good they detect as good and anti-good stuff works on them. The alignment is just how that person detects when they're not doing anything special, like eating breakfast.

2007-10-07, 08:58 PM
^ ^ See, that's a relative system. But what happens when two relativities collide? What about people who worship evil gods believing them to be good? What about when two good nations go to war, each viewing the other as evil?

A relative system doesn't work in D&D, which is why it's warned against - it's too hard to do.

Rigel Cyrosea
2007-10-07, 09:03 PM
The Table - We don't have a table.:smalleek: We have the floor, a bunch of chairs, a bed, and a desk. I use the desk, (I'm the DM), and the others sit in the chairs or on the bed. Maps and other large things go on the floor.
The Group - I'm the DM. I like to write complicated plots and use reccuring villians. I sometimes railroad a bit, but my players don't really notice.
Blackdeath: The party hack. He played a Wizard forever, but he recently switched to warlock. He spends half the time reading old magazines and splatbooks, and the other half doing really stupid things in - character. He once stuffed a bead fireball into a gargoyle foutain (it wasn't alive, and he knew it) that he was grappling, and killed all but one person in the party. Sometimes he's hilarious, and sometimes he's just annoying.
Aramil Liadon: Best roleplayer in the group, and the most sane. He played a Bard for a long time, but then he got bit by a werewolf and became our group's most notorious reccuring villian. He's now playing a shadowcaster.
The Linker: Plays a halfling rogue, the only character who was there when the campaign started and still is. He really loves the whole sneaking and lockpicking, and cheating NPCs thing. He plays every character like a rogue, even in other campaigns where he's a fighter or a cleric. He a short guy in real life too, which always struck me as appropriate, considering his character's race.
Whisperz: Our resident scary munchkiner. He's played so many different characters, I've lost count. There was the cerebremancer with +35 to bluff (convinced Aramil's bard that he was deaf), the dwarf barbarian who wore full plate, the permanently enlarged mummy fighter.... Despite being a powergamer, none of his builds have ever unbalanced the game. Real life, he always wears black and likes to scare little kids.

Table Behavior - We're pretty loose at the ... floor, I guess. We tend not to get a lot done each session, with all the talk and jokes. We also have a hard time staying in character sometimes.

Out of Game - We're all pretty good freinds. We also do a huge amount of video gaming together. For Smash bros, Linker is the king, for Soul Caliber I am. Two of us have Wiis, and two have X-box 360s, so we play a lot of different stuff.

2007-10-07, 09:47 PM
EDIT: This was a bit harsh.