PDA

View Full Version : Pathfinder Why is Observant Illusion restricted to Elves?



Segev
2019-06-21, 01:05 PM
Clearly, Observant Illusion (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-discoveries/arcane-discoveries-paizo/observant-illusion-su/) is from the Spymaster's Handbook, but I don't have that one. My main question is whether this is a fluff or balance restriction. What is this organization and why do only elves and members of it have access to this Wizard Discovery? Is it something that would be broken on other races, for some reason, without this organization's oversight? Or is this just a fluff thing that they decided, in Golarion, was a Big Secret of the elves and some organization that presumably works with elves? Sure, a human with the right feat can count as an elf for prerequisites, but would it be unreasonable to try to talk a DM into letting a non-elf character have this without having to invent the organization for a different campaign setting?

ngilop
2019-06-21, 02:02 PM
First off: Go to original source so that you get the actuality of whatever it is. This applies to anything in life, not just feats from RPG sourcebooks.


Second: The organization that this feat is tied to is, to best sum it up, Elven counter intelligence.

Segev
2019-06-21, 02:39 PM
First off: Go to original source so that you get the actuality of whatever it is. This applies to anything in life, not just feats from RPG sourcebooks.


Second: The organization that this feat is tied to is, to best sum it up, Elven counter intelligence.

I lack access to original source, hence asking of those who have it.

So it's just a fluff restriction? This is an elven national secret, so nobody else can learn it; it has nothing to do with any balance issues that arise from, say, a gnome or a warforged or a human learning this Discovery?

weckar
2019-06-21, 02:59 PM
It seems a little powerful by how undefined it is.
If you just created an illusion of a pile of eyeballs, would you be able to see through all of them?

Segev
2019-06-21, 03:31 PM
It seems a little powerful by how undefined it is.
If you just created an illusion of a pile of eyeballs, would you be able to see through all of them?

It's likely that you can see through an illusion the way you see through a clairvoyance scrying sensor. It doesn't seem to give any specification based on apparent eyes.

weckar
2019-06-21, 04:00 PM
It actually clearly states you see through its eyes and hear through its ears.

Segev
2019-06-21, 04:27 PM
It actually clearly states you see through its eyes and hear through its ears.

Wow, that's a memory fail on my part. I'd just read it earlier when I linked it, and forgotten that by the time I posted. My bad.

I still don't really see a problem. Worst case scenario, you have "all-round vision" for that illusion. But even that would take a DM being generous, since nothing says you get that, even if you can literally see every direction at once from it. It's not like we have much directionality in vision as-is in D&D, anyway.

weckar
2019-06-21, 05:41 PM
Well, by extension it also means you cannot see through illusions that do not have these attributes - culling its use significantly.

gooddragon1
2019-06-21, 10:06 PM
It actually clearly states you see through its eyes and hear through its ears.

So... literally "We can't talk here, these walls have ears"?

Psyren
2019-06-21, 10:48 PM
So it's just a fluff restriction? This is an elven national secret, so nobody else can learn it; it has nothing to do with any balance issues that arise from, say, a gnome or a warforged or a human learning this Discovery?

Others can indeed learn it - in fact, there's a whole section in that book around infiltrating organizations you're not supposed to be part of. Or you can just write it into your backstory that you were a former member of the Winter Council or learned the technique from one (by force if necessary.)