Questions about level 0 utility spells

[Conradine]

Prestidigitation
Universal
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: 1 hour
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No
Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters.
Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.Characters typically use prestidigitation spells to impress common folk, amuse
children, and brighten dreary lives. Common tricks with prestidigitations include producing tinklings of ethereal music, brightening faded flowers, creating glowing balls that float over your hand, generating puffs of wind to flicker candles, spicing up aromas and flavors of bland food, and making little whirlwinds to sweep dust under rugs.


So in your opinion...

1- Can the "Clean" option be used to clean yourself like you did a shower?
2- Can Prestidigitation create usable toilet paper?
3- Can the glowing balls create enough light to read a book?
4- Can Prestidigitation create edible materials and water?
5- Can the chill / warm option be used on yourself ( or dresses and armor ) to make an hot / cold day less uncomfortable?


---

Another spell level 0, Purify Food and Water.
In your opinion could it be used to turn non edible organic matter ( leaves, bark, unedible plants, flowers, grass ) into edible paste?

[Mr Adventurer]

So in your opinion...

1- Can the "Clean" option be used to clean yourself like you did a shower?
2- Can Prestidigitation create usable toilet paper?
3- Can the glowing balls create enough light to read a book?
4- Can Prestidigitation create edible materials and water?
5- Can the chill / warm option be used on yourself ( or dresses and armor ) to make an hot / cold day less uncomfortable?

1 - No, you are not an item.
2 - Maybe, but I'm not sure that "toilet paper" exists in D&D since the setting is typically at an earlier tech-level.
3 - No, the spell doesn't say it can create light.
4 - Yes, but only "edible" in terms of it being possible and non-harmful to eat it: it won't be "food" in most definitions of the word, and won't fill you.
5 - On you, no, on your clothes, yes - but only if you are wearing no more than 1 pound of clothes.

[InvisibleBison]

1- Can the "Clean" option be used to clean yourself like you did a shower?
2- Can Prestidigitation create usable toilet paper?
3- Can the glowing balls create enough light to read a book?
4- Can Prestidigitation create edible materials and water?
5- Can the chill / warm option be used on yourself ( or dresses and armor ) to make an hot / cold day less uncomfortable?

1- Probably not RAW, because you're not an item, but it's a sufficiently minor thing that I'd allow it.
2- No, things created by prestidigitation cannot be used as tools.
3- No, because that would be duplicating the effect of light.
4- No, because that would be duplicating the effect of create food and water.
5- No, because that would be duplicating the effect of endure elements.



Another spell level 0, Purify Food and Water.
In your opinion could it be used to turn non edible organic matter ( leaves, bark, unedible plants, flowers, grass ) into edible paste?
Purify Food and Water has a target of "Contaminated and water". Things that aren't food aren't contaminated food, and so Purify Food and Water doesn't have any effect on them.

[Elvensilver]

1. Most people have dead skin celles..., so by staying 100% in RAW, you can clean something unliving.
2. that would be SO COOL. Or rather, so wonderfully usefull... And well, the things you create are crude and fragile, quite like toilet paper, so why not? It's one-use only.

originaly posted by Invisible Bison
2- No, things created by prestidigitation cannot be used as tools. Also, about toilet paper beeing a tool: you could substitute leaves for toilet paper, and nobody considers leaves a tool.
3. No, that would really duplicate light.
4. You can flavor something, and you can create crude objects- so yes, you could do it. It just misses any nutritional value, and will soon disappear. After all, why would there be a level 3 spell if it was so easily reproduced?
5. You could cast it on your clothes, or dead skin cells, but the effects would be minor. But I'd rule that a magic item created with the prerequisite of Prestidigitation may have stronger effects, up to Endure Elements - after all, Cloaks of Resistance may also be created with just a 0lvl Spell.
6. (own question): how about drying things with Prestidigitation or making them wet?

[Conradine]

2- No, things created by prestidigitation cannot be used as tools.
3- No, because that would be duplicating the effect of light.
4- No, because that would be duplicating the effect of create food and water.
5- No, because that would be duplicating the effect of endure elements.

2- It would be a very rudimentary tool, just a sheet of soft paper.
3- it would be not like a torch, just a small candle
4- it would produce much less than Create Food and Water ( which create enough for many people ), barely enough for a small meal
5- the intent was just to produce some minor relief

[MisterKaws]

No food. Only a miserably tiny glowing ball which might be enough light but only if you have low-light vision. Toilet paper is brittle and fragile, so it can be created(the tool section is about worktools, not a cleaning aid). The cleaning part is not RAW, but it's likely RAI.

[tiercel]

So in your opinion...

1- Can the "Clean" option be used to clean yourself like you did a shower?
2- Can Prestidigitation create usable toilet paper?
3- Can the glowing balls create enough light to read a book?
4- Can Prestidigitation create edible materials and water?
5- Can the chill / warm option be used on yourself ( or dresses and armor ) to make an hot / cold day less uncomfortable?


1) As others have said, while this is RAW-debatable, it seems eminently reasonable; in my experience it’s actually one of the more common uses of the spell.

2) Given a temporary, fragile substance is all you’re trying to make, this also seems reasonable (not least of all if #1 is allowed).

3) It’s true that prestidigitation can’t duplicate light or dancing lights, but I don’t see why you couldn’t create a light source only as strong as a single mundane candle (since that is strictly weaker than other comparable 0-level spells), and seems within the purview of pure utility use.

4) You could probably make tasty little snacks that were purely ephemeral zero-calorie constructs; great for dieting ;) I don’t think you could get significant sustenance from prestidigitation given that there are other spells for sustenance, but for RP yummy nibbles, why not?

5) For purely RP “ah this feels nicer”, this seems reasonable. It probably couldn’t provide any game mechanical protection against environmental heat/cold effects, but “making life more fun/pleasant” seems like a primary purpose of prestidigitation to me.

[Rijan_Sai]

1) As others have said, while this is RAW-debatable, it seems eminently reasonable; in my experience it’s actually one of the more common uses of the spell.

2) Given a temporary, fragile substance is all you’re trying to make, this also seems reasonable (not least of all if #1 is allowed).

3) It’s true that prestidigitation can’t duplicate light or dancing lights, but I don’t see why you couldn’t create a light source only as strong as a single mundane candle (since that is strictly weaker than other comparable 0-level spells), and seems within the purview of pure utility use.

4) You could probably make tasty little snacks that were purely ephemeral zero-calorie constructs; great for dieting ;) I don’t think you could get significant sustenance from prestidigitation given that there are other spells for sustenance, but for RP yummy nibbles, why not?

5) For purely RP “ah this feels nicer”, this seems reasonable. It probably couldn’t provide any game mechanical protection against environmental heat/cold effects, but “making life more fun/pleasant” seems like a primary purpose of prestidigitation to me.
I basically agree with all of this!
Tome and Blood (and online (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707)) has and extended list of uses for the spell.
1) Agree: not RAW, but certainly reasonable;
2) Yep! I mean, you’re not getting “Charmin Ultra Strong,” but something... moderately usable for that purpose.
3) I was going to say this would be okay, unfortunately Ghostwalk has the Candlelight spell, that does basically this. And given that Prestidigitation can’t duplicate the effects of other spells...:smallsigh:;
4) This has been debated... a lot (there was a whole topic about just this issue; when I get to a proper computer I can try and find it to link to it.) As such, this seems the most reasonable ruling. (0 calorie, no nutritional value snacks.)
5) This, entirely. No bringing yourself up/down to a different “temperature band,” (Frostburn/Sandstorm,) but for a minor bit of personal comfort, you can change the temperature of your clothing by +/- 40 degrees.

[MisterKaws]

but for a minor bit of personal comfort, you can change the temperature of your clothing by +/- 40 degrees.

40 is still quite a lot, even if you're using Fahrenheit. I'd say 20º F or 10º C. That's like a personal A/C already.

[rel]

So in your opinion...

1- Can the "Clean" option be used to clean yourself like you did a shower?
2- Can Prestidigitation create usable toilet paper?
3- Can the glowing balls create enough light to read a book?
4- Can Prestidigitation create edible materials and water?
5- Can the chill / warm option be used on yourself ( or dresses and armor ) to make an hot / cold day less uncomfortable?


---

Another spell level 0, Purify Food and Water.
In your opinion could it be used to turn non edible organic matter ( leaves, bark, unedible plants, flowers, grass ) into edible paste?


1 - sure, that sounds reasonable. Clean yourself and soil your enemies. One square foot per every 6 seconds, it is obvious to everyone that you are responsible.
2 - sure. It probably isn't the best toilet paper though.
3 - replicating a candles light seems reasonable. You can read by candlelight but it isn't ideal.
4 - You can create a facsimile of food or water but these creations are false and do not sate hunger or quench thirst.
5 - Sure that seems doable. Warm your socks on a cold day, chill your vest or hat to beat the heat. getting the temperature and distribution of effects just right probably takes some effort. I expect you will be adjusting the temperature every few minutes.

bonus question - the examples you gave probably won't work. I see purify restoring existing nutritional value and eliminating harmful substances; Carrion would work. There is nothing spoiled about grass or leaves (they are in fact perfectly edible to a goat) so the spell doesn't improve them.

[Elkad]

1 - Yes.
2 - If the DM balks at it being a "tool", just use option 1 instead.
3 - I'd let you have dim light within a single 5' square. If you had low-light vision, you'd be able to see the squares adjacent.
4 - Edible, but non-nutritive seems reasonable. Treat any water content as something similar to drinking alcohol. It's a poison your body has to filter out, so you don't gain any hydration either.
5 - Anything up to a pound. So not you (unless you are Diminutive or Fine). But you could heat your shoes, or a stone in your pocket, or cool a bracer against your wrist or a wet cloth on your neck or a pint of your water. For.. say 1/3rd of your movement rate, I'd let you have the effect of an Endure Elements. You have to keep pausing to take Standard Actions to heat/cool various bits of your gear.

[MisterKaws]

Edible, but non-nutritive seems reasonable. Treat any water content as something similar to drinking alcohol. It's a poison your body has to filter out, so you don't gain any hydration either.

Distilled water is exactly that. Drinking it for a few days actually makes you rapidly lose a lot of body fluids that are stored all over the place. Bodybuilders use it to get that chiseled look, and MMA fighters to get the highest muscle mass percentage possible out of their weight category(thus needing to lose weight in things other than muscle).

So, basically, drinking only it for over a week would massively reduce your body liquid and possibly risk injury, although eating mineral-rich food would counter-balance it. If you only eat non-nutritious food along with it, however... Well, let's just say it'd be an anorexic girl's wet dream.

[Elkad]

Warning, math ahead. And this isn't my field, so possibly I made a mess of it.

Taking the heat/cool as a baseline energy output.
1lb 40 degrees is 454grams changed 22c. Or 10,000 calories of change.

Since food calories are actually kilocalories, a pound of food should have no more than 10 calories.

On the other hand, when we look at lighting, 10,000 calories doesn't match with the value of the spell at all.
10,000 calories is 10,000 joules, or 10,000 watt/seconds. Divide by 6 for a round=1666 watt/rounds. That's a mighty bright light.

On the other hand, if one standard action gets you a light that stays on for an hour without concentration, it's 2.77 watts. Hey look, a candle.

(a 3 watt incandescent bulb makes just under 2 candlepower. That's at something like 2% efficiency though. If the magical light is 100% efficient, it would be 50x brighter. 100 candlepower. 1 candlepower is the light a candle puts on a 1sqft object at 1' (read a book a foot from a tiny birthday candle). A 5' diameter (2.5' radius) sphere has a surface area of 78 sqft. You get about 1.2 candlepower to the edge of your own square - same visibility as reading that book at 1' by one candle. And 100/314 (.3ish) to the edge of the adjacent squares.).

Of course now we've broken actual candles.

[denthor]

When you say glowing balls I think dancing lights. There are 4 of them about as bright as a torch. I say yes you can read if they are placed around the book without casting your shadow.

For the 4th & 5th one create water and endure elements are cleric/druid/ wizard spells of 1st level you can not duplicate with a lower spell. As mentioned objects only. For the warmth/ chill

[Kalkra]

There are additional uses for Prestidigitation somewhere which include making things damp, which explicitly gives them fire resistance 2.

[Conradine]

Things that are not explicitly written:

1- could you use "soil" to create a thin layer of grease inside a leather boot / plaque / bracelet / whatever if you have irritated skin?
2- could you use "clean" to remove dead skin and cancel corns / calluses?
3- use "clean" on an hematoma's dead blood and empty it?

[tiercel]

3) I was going to say this would be okay, unfortunately Ghostwalk has the Candlelight spell, that does basically this. And given that Prestidigitation can’t duplicate the effects of other spells...:smallsigh:;
.

Oh, for goodness’ sakes, why, Ghostwalk? (This gives prestidigitation the odd distinction of being one of the few spells that gets weaker the more obscure sources one includes.)

Fine; for a campaign that doesn’t have/use Ghostwalk, I’d allow a candle’s worth of illumination (it’s hardly game-breaking, sheesh), but if Ghostwalk is on the table, I’d allow prestidigitation to produce a “minor candle” (only illuminates the 5’ square it’s in, rather than a 5’ radius).

[ezekielraiden]

1. By RAW, possibly not, but I'd absolutely allow it.
2. I'd allow it--toilet paper is fragile and frankly I've seen some real toilet paper that I wasn't sure was actually real paper, so...
3. By RAW, possibly not. I personally would allow it, but only just barely--you'd have to have it floating just above the page, or have low-light vision.
4. Not in a way that would be nutritious or hydrating, as others have said. That's what create water, goodberry, and other spells are for.
5. As long as this comfort has no other mechanical effect, just a feeling of comfort, sounds perfectly RAW to me.

[animewatcha]

Prestidigitation by itself cleans up 1 cubic foot etc., right? This qualifies as it being an area spell for this use. This allows Sculpt Spell metamagic feat ( I keep mentally calling Shape Spell for some reason ) to affect it. So now you combine them ( paying either the metamagic cost or not depending upon build ) so that Prestidigitation covers the area of the Sculpt Spell metamagic feat. Set the function to cleaning. Are you about to walk into a thieves' den or spider cave? If they are within this area ( passing through, staying within, etc. ) then they are constantly being cleaned. Which means no poison on weapons. Spiders fangs have no poison due to constantly being cleaned.

[Rijan_Sai]

Prestidigitation by itself cleans up 1 cubic foot etc., right? This qualifies as it being an area spell for this use. This allows Sculpt Spell metamagic feat ( I keep mentally calling Shape Spell for some reason ) to affect it. So now you combine them ( paying either the metamagic cost or not depending upon build ) so that Prestidigitation covers the area of the Sculpt Spell metamagic feat. Set the function to cleaning. Are you about to walk into a thieves' den or spider cave? If they are within this area ( passing through, staying within, etc. ) then they are constantly being cleaned. Which means no poison on weapons. Spiders fangs have no poison due to constantly being cleaned.

That's pushing it... hard. (Also, you would have no AoE against the poison inside the spider fangs...)
While I can (maybe) see the argument for Sculpting the are of Clean, maybe you can get rid of the spider webs, but it would most certainly be out of range-of-power to remove poison.