Constitution Medium Armor

[Brother12]

I've been thinking about allowing constitution instead of dexterity for medium armor AC. Sort of the 'take it like a man" instead of "dodge if you can" kind of deal. It would benefit barbarians, strength rangers, valor bards, mountain dwarves, etc. Basically everyone can manage 14+ Con especially if it replaces the need for a 14+ Dex.

Would this be a problem at all?

[AdAstra]

Can't see it completely breaking anything, and it makes several previously difficult builds more viable. It would change a lot of expectations though. Most heavy armor characters would benefit a lot from carrying around a breastplate (or asking their DM if they can temporarily strip their armor down) for occasional stealth, since for pretty much all of them it's only -2 AC over plate. Barbarians can invest more into wisdom without sacrificing much. Strength rangers are actually practical. Overall, Heavy armor ends up as only a marginal upgrade (+1 AC) to medium for basically everyone.
The biggest unbalancing factor I could see is non-dwarf cleric casters wanting medium armor even more, since it allows them to dump both strength and dex if they want. Hexblades and multiclasses thereof somehow end up even more SAD (only requiring Cha and some Con). For every character that's made more viable as a pure strength build, there's one or two that can now invest literally everything into Con and their casting stat.

[Blood of Gaea]

Basically, everyone who would already use Medium armor will love it, and everyone who wouldn't still wouldn't.

[Talyn]

I might make it specifically a Ranger, Fighter, Paladin and Barbarian ability (i.e. the 'tank classes'). As AdAstra already pointed out, it lets medium-armor wearers dump DEX entirely, which means that any CHA-based medium armor character ONLY needs CHA and CON. Bards and Hexblades in particular would get a huge advantage out of it.

[Tanarii]

Depends if you want all your Barbarians to wear Half Plate (or Breastplates if they're sneaky), instead of just some of them.

[bid]

Basically everyone can manage 14+ Con especially if it replaces the need for a 14+ Dex.
Since everyone can get Con14, half-plate would be AC17. Same as splint but without the Str15 requirement.

Heavy armor needs Str15, light armor needs Dex20 and medium armor armor needs nothing of consequences. For instance, hexblade 10 10 16 10 14 16 is massively advantaged.


No, if you want to fix Str-anger etal. you should allow Str14 to replace Dex14. That way medium armor becomes "heavy armor"-light

[Tanarii]

No, if you want to fix Str-anger etal. you should allow Str14 to replace Dex14. That way medium armor becomes "heavy armor"-light
That ... is an amazingly good idea! It'd cut down on the MADness of a whole bunch of options that suffer quite a lot from "needing" Dex 14. Str Valor Bard, Str Life/Nature Clerics, Str dual wielding ranger, and Str Bladelock's that spend a feat on medium armor.

[TerakasTaranath]

I've been thinking about allowing constitution instead of dexterity for medium armor AC. Sort of the 'take it like a man" instead of "dodge if you can" kind of deal. It would benefit barbarians, strength rangers, valor bards, mountain dwarves, etc. Basically everyone can manage 14+ Con especially if it replaces the need for a 14+ Dex.

Would this be a problem at all?

I like this a lot.

I think medium armor needs more love and it'd be realistic that adventurers would use medium armor a lot. Think about it, who wants to climb mountains and navigate forests in full plate(assuming you stay in your armor.)? Unless you have a wagon/cart/pack animal or a bag of holding(which I always make my plate wearing characters get ASAP) it'd be a real pain in the ass. And ofcourse you have to take care of your armor, which most tables (mine included) just kinda forget and don't care about. I personally wouldn't be a plate or split wearer if I didn't have an easy way to transport it and I had a squire :p

[Potato_Priest]

I personally wouldn't be a plate or split wearer if I didn't have an easy way to transport it and I had a squire :p

Neither would I, but my strength is also not somewhere between that of a pony (14) and a draft horse (18).

[TerakasTaranath]

Neither would I, but my strength is also not somewhere between that of a pony (14) and a draft horse (18).

Yea, and plate isn't as heavy as games/movies/shows say but it's still a considerable weight to bear for a long time. Assuming I was a trained fighter I would be a lot more used to the weight of the armor. But even ignoring the weight it's still a lot more inconvenient unless you expect a fight lol.

I mostly only care about this because I'm a medieval history geek and I like to make my fighters/paladins like the stuff I study lol, I don't expect anyone else at my table to think about this kinda thing it's just something I RP.

Sometimes I look at things like the Canterburry Tales and other sources that show a little of medieval travel. If people went armed they generally carried side arms or hunting bows and left the armor for the carts.

But in D&D you could get mithral plate, which my paladin in SKT did and I had him wear it a lot more than my other characters who never got mithral armor. Or just get an enchantment that makes it weigh a lot less or even the same as normal clothes which would be really cool.

[Blood of Gaea]

I like this a lot.

I think medium armor needs more love and it'd be realistic that adventurers would use medium armor a lot. Think about it, who wants to climb mountains and navigate forests in full plate(assuming you stay in your armor.)? Unless you have a wagon/cart/pack animal or a bag of holding(which I always make my plate wearing characters get ASAP) it'd be a real pain in the ass. And ofcourse you have to take care of your armor, which most tables (mine included) just kinda forget and don't care about. I personally wouldn't be a plate or split wearer if I didn't have an easy way to transport it and I had a squire :p
Eh, if you're going for verisimilitude, every group of adventurers should have at least 1 mule per 2 people, and 1 mule or horse per person as soon as they can afford it. They would likely have 1 or 2 followers to take care of things like armor maintenance as soon as they could afford the cost as well.

Even if the whole party can manage the weight of their supplies, a lot of their stuff takes up a lot of space. Rations and water alone would be ridiculously bulky to carry several weeks worth on your back, when you consider you also need hundreds of feet of rope, camping gear, a pot or pan, cutlery, bowls, possibly spare clothing, oil, lamps, grappling hooks, and any other things your party might be toting around with them.

[Greywander]

No, if you want to fix Str-anger etal. you should allow Str14 to replace Dex14. That way medium armor becomes "heavy armor"-light
I came to this thread to say basically this: try using STR instead of CON. CON more represents "healthiness", while STR is more "fitness". A high CON character might just have a high metabolism and healthy immune system, while a high STR character could be either the ripped strong-man with the inverted triangle shape we're all familiar with, or the lithe and slender build with well-defined muscles. In other words, the deadlifter (https://www.animalpak.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/fivecues.jpg) and swimmer (https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/03/19/13/11180894-6825763-Swimmer_Kenneth_Teo_pictured_right_was_described_a s_a_warm_perso-m-53_1553001201858.jpg) are both high STR builds

Point is, if you want to "take it like a man", it makes more sense to use STR than CON.

Plus, there's already a correlation between STR and AC via heavy armor, but only with respect to heavy armor. DEX has an interesting progression system where you are all DEX for light or no armor, some DEX for medium armor, and no DEX for heavy armor, but STR is only relevant for heavy armor and is otherwise irrelevant to AC.

What I would say is that any penalty from DEX still applies. Thus, medium armor builds have the freedom to go for STR or DEX (or both, 12 in each) for that +2 AC, but only heavy armor builds can dump DEX without a penalty to AC.

[Galithar]

What I would say is that any penalty from DEX still applies. Thus, medium armor builds have the freedom to go for STR or DEX (or both, 12 in each) for that +2 AC, but only heavy armor builds can dump DEX without a penalty to AC.

So you would you say that 16+ Str and 8 Dex still gets +1 AC? The max +2 from strength and still the -1 from Dex?

[Wizard_Lizard]

I guess it is only +2 to AC.

[Greywander]

So you would you say that 16+ Str and 8 Dex still gets +1 AC? The max +2 from strength and still the -1 from Dex?
Yes, otherwise it's not functionally different from heavy armor, most of which requires a 13 or 15 in STR to use without penalties. As long as you have at least a 10 in DEX, though, you should be fine, which isn't a bad idea anyway considering how common DEX saves are.

In most cases, you're going to want to dump STR and go DEX anyway, even with this tweak. There's still no penalty to AC for dumping STR like there is for dumping DEX, and DEX lets you use ranged weapons as well as melee. Still, it at least makes STR medium armor builds viable, if not optimized.

[Bjarkmundur]

I'm actually a fan of these kinds of mechanics as feats, the kind that gives a small bonus as well as a new use for a stat. A good example is Battlewise from 4e, which allows you to use your Wisdom for initiative.

[DanyBallon]

Instead, what if Medium Armor Mastery, let you add your STR modifier (max +2) to your AC? This would replace the DEX modifier (max +3) bullet.

Even though some DEX build would benefit from this feat (it ends up better than the original if you both have 14+ in STR and DEX), I think it will see more use among STR build as in addition to using STR for AC, it let them be more stealthier, which can be a boon in some situations.

What do you think?

[Tanarii]

Yes, otherwise it's not functionally different from heavy armor, most of which requires a 13 or 15 in STR to use without penalties. As long as you have at least a 10 in DEX, though, you should be fine, which isn't a bad idea anyway considering how common DEX saves are.If I was going to make Medium Armor Str-based, I'd probably lower the base AC by a point and add up to +3 from strength. That'd make it worse than Heavy Armor unless you're particularly strong.

Still means you'll see all your Barbarians in Half Plate though.