To clone or not to clone

[Dalebert]

Clone can be inconvenient. If you're in a dungeon and die while cloned, your soul gets sucked into the clone instantly. You now can not be revivified which would get you right back into the battle potentially. There's a decent chance that, if you die, it happens during a tough boss fight. You likely are now out of the adventure because you can't get your clone body back in time to be of any use.

So as the subject states, clone or risk it?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Get Teleport or have a party member with Teleport and you can most likely get back in an adventuring day at worst I'd say.

It does cut down on the Revivify fun.

FWIW, I'd get Teleport and do it.

[Zhorn]

If you have the ability to create a clone, presumably you have a location for it to be kept safe, and sufficient resources to establish 'emergency plans'

Step 1: In your 'secret base' where the clone is being stored, set up a Teleportation Circle (might not be 100% needed, consult your DM)
Step 2: Create a Teleport spell scroll keyed to that location, give that to a trusted party member that is more likely to survive than you are
Step 3: On your death, that party member is to grab an associated object in the location that you died in and teleport it to your base with the scroll
Step 4: The now awake clone-you uses the associated object to accurately teleport back to the scene of the action and rejoin the battle within a turn cycle or two.
Step 5: Naked revenge Fireball

[Lord Vukodlak]

Clone can be inconvenient. If you're in a dungeon and die while cloned, your soul gets sucked into the clone instantly. You now can not be revivified which would get you right back into the battle potentially. There's a decent chance that, if you die, it happens during a tough boss fight. You likely are now out of the adventure because you can't get your clone body back in time to be of any use.

So as the subject states, clone or risk it?
You aren't required to use the clone you can be unwilling and simply wait for the revivify. You can have the clone as backup if your revivify-er is out of commission or if something happens to you that revivify can't fix. The one to clone might be the one who casts revivify. Or clone the whole party to protect from a TPK.

Furthermore you could possibly stuff the urn in a bag of holding and simply climb out of someones backpack but thats dependent on having the item to spare.

[JackPhoenix]

Problem with depending on Teleport is that the place you've died in most likely fits under "viewed once", which gives you whopping 26% chance to arrive at the correct location on your own. And there's the fun possibility of rolling enough mishaps to kill yourself again.

Giving a scroll to party member requires the member in question to be sorcerer, bard or a wizard, nobody else can use it.

[Zhorn]

Problem with depending on Teleport is that the place you've died in most likely fits under "viewed once", which gives you whopping 26% chance to arrive at the correct location on your own. And there's the fun possibility of rolling enough mishaps to kill yourself again.

Giving a scroll to party member requires the member in question to be sorcerer, bard or a wizard, nobody else can use it.
You are right about the class restriction, I was just spit balling a plan.

The 'viewed once' part I was meaning you get around by having the person using the scroll "grab an associated object" before they bamph out. Associated Object in the spell text just needs to be an object that was taken from that location in the last six months to qualify. The description is pretty generous in what qualifies, with a piece of linen or a broken bit of stone being sufficient.

[Damon_Tor]

Clone can be inconvenient. If you're in a dungeon and die while cloned, your soul gets sucked into the clone instantly. You now can not be revivified which would get you right back into the battle potentially.

The Clone spell states that you go into your clone assuming "the soul is free and willing to return". It's rather difficult to read this in an any way other to mean it's optional at the time of death: who would decide what your soul is or is not willing to do if not you? You are the soul, the soul is you.

Now as the DM I would require the caster to make the choice at the time of death: he he opts not to revive in the clone at the moment he dies he does not have that option again. In other words, if he rejects the clone hoping the cleric would revive him only for the cleric to die himself later, well he's off to whatever afterlife awaits him instead.

[Damon_Tor]

I was just spit balling a plan.

Here's one: use an "Imprisonment" spell to safely store the Clone inside a Minimus Gem. Set the spell to end when the clone receives a soul. Then the moment you die, requiring no actions or spell slots, you simply appear right next to your own corpse.

Of course imprisonment is 9th level, so not exactly a very useful trick at that point in your life cycle. I feel like there must be some good way to do this with Contingency and/or Glyph of Warding.

[Zhorn]

The Clone spell states that you go into your clone assuming "the soul is free and willing to return". It's rather difficult to read this in an any way other to mean it's optional at the time of death: who would decide what your soul is or is not willing to do if not you? You are the soul, the soul is you.

Now as the DM I would require the caster to make the choice at the time of death: he he opts not to revive in the clone at the moment he dies he does not have that option again. In other words, if he rejects the clone hoping the cleric would revive him only for the cleric to die himself later, well he's off to whatever afterlife awaits him instead.
This is a reasonable ruling, and one that I think I shall utilize if any of my players looks into Clone.


Here's one: use an "Imprisonment" spell to safely store the Clone inside a Minimus Gem. Set the spell to end when the clone receives a soul. Then the moment you die, requiring no actions or spell slots, you simply appear right next to your own corpse.

Of course imprisonment is 9th level, so not exactly a very useful trick at that point in your life cycle. I feel like there must be some good way to do this with Contingency and/or Glyph of Warding.
I did consider something in line with the Bag of Holding method for that alternative, but decided against it as you have no way of knowing if your death would put you in a position when the clone would be killed immediately on emerging (vat of acid, tarrasque stomach, etc). Stored in a safe location far from the source of danger at least means on a TPK, the clone isn't lost also.

[Damon_Tor]

This is a reasonable ruling, and one that I think I shall utilize if any of my players looks into Clone.


I did consider something in line with the Bag of Holding method for that alternative, but decided against it as you have no way of knowing if your death would put you in a position when the clone would be killed immediately on emerging (vat of acid, tarrasque stomach, etc). Stored in a safe location far from the source of danger at least means on a TPK, the clone isn't lost also.

Another element of the "willing and available" clause of the spell means it's entirely possible to have more than one clone, each stored in a variety of different locations, and choose which one to enter at the time of your death. So if the clone you keep on your person (in whatever manner you choose to do this) would not revive safely, just "be unwilling" to go into that particular clone, while remaining willing to go into the one you have stored in your demiplane.

However, similar to the "choose at the time of death or loose the choice" ruling, I would interpret a death even as "triggering" all your clones at once, regardless of which clone you've chosen to inhabit. This means those clones are now wasted: you'll have to replace them. This means you can't have a battery of clones and just come back from the dead an infinite number of times. This makes the multiple clone method a very expensive one.

[Zhorn]

Another element of the "willing and available" clause of the spell means it's entirely possible to have more than one clone, each stored in a variety of different locations, and choose which one to enter at the time of your death. So if the clone you keep on your person (in whatever manner you choose to do this) would not revive safely, just "be unwilling" to go into that particular clone, while remaining willing to go into the one you have stored in your demiplane.

However, similar to the "choose at the time of death or loose the choice" ruling, I would interpret a death even as "triggering" all your clones at once, regardless of which clone you've chosen to inhabit. This means those clones are now wasted: you'll have to replace them. This means you can't have a battery of clones and just come back from the dead an infinite number of times. This makes the multiple clone method a very expensive one.

I so very badly want to link the clip of Rick lamenting that Operation Phoenix is not the fallback he thought it would be, but I'm pretty sure there's got to be some forum violation in there with the blood, animated violence and a naked Rick... Shame, such an appropriate clip.

As for the wasted clones part... I'm going to have to disagree. The Spell text makes no mention of the clones expiring or becoming nonviable if you opt to not use it.

[Dalebert]

You aren't required to use the clone you can be unwilling and simply wait for the revivify.

Excellent point! I'd not thought of that part.



Furthermore you could possibly stuff the urn in a bag of holding and simply climb out of someones backpack but thats dependent on having the item to spare.

Actually that works for me. I think I envisioned the vessel as being really big but it really only has to fit an adult in a fetal position. I have both a portable hole and a bag of holding. I might grab another hole just for this.


The Clone spell states that you go into your clone assuming "the soul is free and willing to return".

Now as the DM I would require the caster to make the choice at the time of death...

This is also an excellent point. If, at the time of my death, I see the cleric is fine, I might opt out. I'm in AL so I always have the option for an alternate method of revival in a pinch.



As for the wasted clones part... I'm going to have to disagree. The Spell text makes no mention of the clones expiring or becoming nonviable if you opt to not use it.

Agree. That's a "reference needed" claim. Of course in your own Homebrew it's your call but I'm in AL and would call bullpoop on that one.

My original plan was to store it in a demiplane and have supplies on hand--clothes, gear, a spare spellbook that def has plane shift in it, a run aing fork... Now that it's pointed out I can have several clones and take my pick, I'll do this as well once I get wish and can have extra free clones.

[darknite]

That's the price of immortality. No one said dying was convenient.

[JackPhoenix]

Here's one: use an "Imprisonment" spell to safely store the Clone inside a Minimus Gem. Set the spell to end when the clone receives a soul. Then the moment you die, requiring no actions or spell slots, you simply appear right next to your own corpse.

Of course imprisonment is 9th level, so not exactly a very useful trick at that point in your life cycle. I feel like there must be some good way to do this with Contingency and/or Glyph of Warding.

Doesn't work. Imprisonment targets a creature you can see, Clone is object, not a creature, until it recieves a soul.


This is also an excellent point. If, at the time of my death, I see the cleric is fine, I might opt out.

Sounds risky. Just because the cleric was alive when you died doesn't mean he won't be dead 6 seconds later.


Agree. That's a "reference needed" claim. Of course in your own Homebrew it's your call but I'm in AL and would call bullpoop on that one.

My original plan was to store it in a demiplane and have supplies on hand--clothes, gear, a spare spellbook that def has plane shift in it, a run aing fork... Now that it's pointed out I can have several clones and take my pick, I'll do this as well once I get wish and can have extra free clones.

Picking which clone you revive into is also "reference needed" claim. There's a precedent for multiple copies of the same creature wreaking havoc and trying to kill each other to prove *they* are the true original...

[Dalebert]

Picking which clone you revive into is also "reference needed" claim. There's a precedent for multiple copies of the same creature wreaking havoc and trying to kill each other to prove *they* are the true original...

As the spell says, the clone receives the soul only if it's willing. So five different vessels are pulling at your soul--"I'm willing for that one but not those other four." And then in this edition, only one of the clones now has a soul. The others remain dormant and unactivated. No duplicates fighting each other.

[JackPhoenix]

As the spell says, the clone receives the soul only if it's willing. So five different vessels are pulling at your soul--"I'm willing for that one but not those other four." And then in this edition, only one of the clones now has a soul. The others remain dormant and unactivated. No duplicates fighting each other.

You assume that willingness will allow you to pick, instead being a simple on/off switch. In 3.5, you knew who's trying to return you to life and had a choice at that moment, that's no longer true in 5e.

[Keravath]

You assume that willingness will allow you to pick, instead being a simple on/off switch. In 3.5, you knew who's trying to return you to life and had a choice at that moment, that's no longer true in 5e.

I don't think this statement is correct.

DMG p24

"A soul can't be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and might refuse to return on that basis."

If it is the character's own clone that wants to return the character to life, then the soul would know this. It is a DM call as to whether the soul knows which clone if there is more than one.

As for anyone else trying to restore the character to life then the soul knows quite a bit about the circumstances that may be sufficient to make a decision.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Doesn't work. Imprisonment targets a creature you can see, Clone is object, not a creature, until it recieves a soul.
Tie the box to a mule then imprison the mule. Nothing in the imprisonment spell says equipment is left behind.

[Dalebert]

Here's one: use an "Imprisonment" spell to safely store the Clone inside a Minimus Gem.

Should I know what a Minimus Gem is?

[Rukelnikov]

Tie the box to a mule then imprison the mule. Nothing in the imprisonment spell says equipment is left behind.

Awesome, will use this for something

[Lord Vukodlak]

Should I know what a Minimus Gem is?
Read the spell it’s one of the methods of imprisonment.

[Damon_Tor]

Should I know what a Minimus Gem is?

I'd expect you could figure out what I meant by that by reading the text of the "Imprisonment" spell.

In short, the spell offers several varieties of prisons the spell can create. One of them is called "minimus" which shrinks the target down and encases them inside a gem.

[darknite]

If a wizard, does the clone arise knowing spells or does the clone need to memorize them from a spellbook? In my game I'd say the latter, since the clone is described as an 'inert duplicate'. To me inert implies empty and would need to study a spellbook to gain spells.

[Damon_Tor]

If a wizard, does the clone arise knowing spells or does the clone need to memorize them from a spellbook? In my game I'd say the latter, since the clone is described as an 'inert duplicate'. To me inert implies empty and would need to study a spellbook to gain spells.

Depends on where the line is between the soul and the mind.

We have to assume the soul has some memories: otherwise it wouldn't be "you" in any reasonable sense, it would be an adult with an infant mind who couldn't feed himself or use a toilet. So giving them all the memories of their life up until now but arbitrarily saying they don't remember what they read last night just seems like you're being spiteful.

The better question is, are "spell slots" tied to the soul or to the body? Does the clone have a whole, fresh supply of spell slots ready and waiting? Does it have the same number remaining as the wizard had when he died? Does he start off empty for some reason, and gets no spells until he has a long rest?

If he immediately returns to combat (via any of the methods we've discussed here) does he roll initiative again?

[Dalebert]

If a wizard, does the clone arise knowing spells or does the clone need to memorize them from a spellbook?

I'm going to bring up one of my pet peeves because it might have some impact on how people decide this. Characters don't memorize spells anymore and they don't forget spells when they cast them anymore. They "prepare" spells. It seems that preparing a spell is sort of like doing some pre-casting so just saying a few final words and gesture completes the spell along with some personal energy (a spell slot).

So why would you no longer have the spells prepared that you had prepared before? You only have to prepare spells in the morning if you want to change what you had prepared the day before. If you like all the spells you prepared yesterday, you don't have to do anything. You still have them prepared. If it's because they're recent, what if you prepared a set of spells a month ago and you haven't changed them since then? You had a bunch of spells prepared all month so why do you suddenly not have them prepared? What else would you lose? Would you forget any friends you met in the last month?

[Nagog]

If you have the ability to create a clone, presumably you have a location for it to be kept safe, and sufficient resources to establish 'emergency plans'

Step 1: In your 'secret base' where the clone is being stored, set up a Teleportation Circle (might not be 100% needed, consult your DM)
Step 2: Create a Teleport spell scroll keyed to that location, give that to a trusted party member that is more likely to survive than you are
Step 3: On your death, that party member is to grab an associated object in the location that you died in and teleport it to your base with the scroll
Step 4: The now awake clone-you uses the associated object to accurately teleport back to the scene of the action and rejoin the battle within a turn cycle or two.
Step 5: Naked revenge Fireball

"Naked Revenge Fireball" Sounds like some kind of stupid weird anime move and I love it XD


I'm going to bring up one of my pet peeves because it might have some impact on how people decide this. Characters don't memorize spells anymore and they don't forget spells when they cast them anymore. They "prepare" spells. It seems that preparing a spell is sort of like doing some pre-casting so just saying a few final words and gesture completes the spell along with some personal energy (a spell slot).

So why would you no longer have the spells prepared that you had prepared before? You only have to prepare spells in the morning if you want to change what you had prepared the day before. If you like all the spells you prepared yesterday, you don't have to do anything. You still have them prepared. If it's because they're recent, what if you prepared a set of spells a month ago and you haven't changed them since then? You had a bunch of spells prepared all month so why do you suddenly not have them prepared? What else would you lose? Would you forget any friends you met in the last month?

On this point, I'd say would would need to retrieve the material components from your corpse in order to cast them, as when a spell consumes a material component, the material is consumed upon casting of the spell rather than when it is prepared. Primarily for this reason it's really up to the DM on the particulars of if you can cast and what spells you can cast while running around as a Naked Wizard Clone. Personally I'd rule it as you can cast any spell that doesn't require a material component, but that'd be my own personal ruling.

[Dalebert]

On this point, I'd say would would need to retrieve the material components from your corpse in order to cast them, as when a spell consumes a material component, the material is consumed upon casting of the spell rather than when it is prepared. Primarily for this reason it's really up to the DM on the particulars of if you can cast and what spells you can cast while running around as a Naked Wizard Clone. Personally I'd rule it as you can cast any spell that doesn't require a material component, but that'd be my own personal ruling.

I don't think that's even in dispute. Part of the standard preperation of making a clone should also involve leaving spare clothes and gear including material components of foci. If I leave a clone in a demiplane, for instance, one of the many things I would leave nearby would be a tuning fork attuned to the Prime Material plane.

I believe the naked fireball revenge thing or whatever is based on crawling out of the bag of holding to attack without even taking time to get dressed, but I assume you grab whatever arcane focus you have in there on the way out.

[darknite]

I'm going to bring up one of my pet peeves because it might have some impact on how people decide this. Characters don't memorize spells anymore and they don't forget spells when they cast them anymore. They "prepare" spells. It seems that preparing a spell is sort of like doing some pre-casting so just saying a few final words and gesture completes the spell along with some personal energy (a spell slot).

...



PH p.114
Preparing a new list of wizard spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and memorizing the incantations and gestures you must make to east the spell: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

So, yeah, the term memorize is still in use. The issue I'm bringing up is does a clone have any spells prepared or do they need to memorize a complete set.

[Zhorn]

"Naked Revenge Fireball" Sounds like some kind of stupid weird anime move and I love it XD

If I ever play a wizard to a high enough level, I'm going to have so many contingency plans, and all of them will involve nudity (Strictly in a comical sense :smallwink:)

Naked Backpack Wizard will be the most used (clone in a handy haversack)

[Revaros]

The clone idea has always struck me as a bit too SciFi in fantasy settings. I am not opposed to it, but without tech it should be more corruptive and Lichy, rule of great power at a horrible price.

[RulesJD]

1. Presumably your Clone is in a Demiplane. If not, you can skip to step #4.
2. Wake up in Clone. Immediately grab whatever backup gear you have (or activate your
3. Walk over to the Glyph of Warding you setup previously with a Banishment loaded into it. Speak the command word. Instantly be teleported back to the Material Plane.
4. Cast Scrying on one of your party members.
5. You can now see the location you are trying to teleport into (75% chance of success). Roll the dice and hope statistics are on your side.

[Dalebert]

1. Presumably your Clone is in a Demiplane. If not, you can skip to step #4.
3. Walk over to the Glyph of Warding you setup previously with a Banishment loaded into it. Speak the command word. Instantly be teleported back to the Material Plane.
4. Cast Scrying on one of your party members.
5. You can now see the location you are trying to teleport into (75% chance of success). Roll the dice and hope statistics are on your side.

This is actually a better plan than just a straight plane shift. Teleport just makes sense to have prepared anyway and plane shift just lacks precision.

Simply having a scroll of Banishment works too but it's costly and requires you maintain concentration for a minute. I like the glyph better.

[darknite]

I keep a clone on a demiplane complete with my spare spellbook and some unused magical items. I figure a clone isn't ready to jump right back into the fray and will reappear, Gandalf-like, at an appropriate time.

[RulesJD]

If you're willing to waste your 8th level spell slot, you could always just pick up an "associated object" each time you enter a dungeon and cast Demiplane to the one with your Clone in it. Toss the object in and then proceed to explore. This is a bit extreme.

[Zhorn]

If you're willing to waste your 8th level spell slot, you could always just pick up an "associated object" each time you enter a dungeon and cast Demiplane to the one with your Clone in it. Toss the object in and then proceed to explore. This is a bit extreme.

That sounds like a rational and intelligent safety precaution to recover from a TPK..
What do we look like to you? Professionals? pfft! Next you'll be telling us to store clones of our entire party and not just ourselves :smalltongue:

[Segev]

There's no reason your clone wouldn't have all the resources you did when you died, in terms of things that are part of "you" (rather than gear you're carrying). Same spells memorized/prepared, same number of hit dice left available to roll for healing during short rests, same number of spell slots left, etc.

D&D dodges the philosophical quandary of whether a clone with all your memories is "you" or not by explicitly stating that your soul transfers to the clone. You're essentially reincarnating as yourself. We don't ask if the reincarnated character still has the same spells prepared. You are your soul, and that moved to the new body when the old one ceased to be a viable container.

Edit: I'd just like to add a comment that 5e's addition of the ability to make the clone a younger version of the original creature is very interesting. This gives any caster with clone the ability to give a sort of ageless immortality to people. He'll just grow a clone of them at their prime. If they can't return after dying of old age, then they should just kill themselves once the clone is ready. They may wish to do that anyway, if they're old and decrepit enough to want a fresh, new body already. If the spell works even if they die of old age, they can also just keep living until they die naturally and wake up in their prime.


Also, on an undignified and gross level, nothing says that the vessel containing the clone can only contain one clone at a time. You could pack them in like cordwood, or have the Evangelion-esq massive aquarium of clones, all in one single vessel (worth 2000 gp). From an economic standpoint, this means that the same vessel can be used for a bunch of clones at once.

[RulesJD]

I've never really understood the GP cost being tied to the container, simply because they describe one of the possible containers as a "mud-filled cyst in the ground".

Now I'm not sure what kind of cyst we're talking about here, but I'm hard pressed to come up with how to make one worth 2000gp.

[Segev]

I've never really understood the GP cost being tied to the container, simply because they describe one of the possible containers as a "mud-filled cyst in the ground".

Now I'm not sure what kind of cyst we're talking about here, but I'm hard pressed to come up with how to make one worth 2000gp.

My somewhat joking response is to suggest you look into how much it costs to get a tornado shelter installed underground in your back yard. (IIRC, they come to around 4 digits of dollars.)

[JackPhoenix]

Also, on an undignified and gross level, nothing says that the vessel containing the clone can only contain one clone at a time. You could pack them in like cordwood, or have the Evangelion-esq massive aquarium of clones, all in one single vessel (worth 2000 gp). From an economic standpoint, this means that the same vessel can be used for a bunch of clones at once.

Well, problem with that is that once you open it to let the one active clone out, the rest of them will die.

[Temperjoke]

At least the vessel can be recycled. Once you emerge in your new body, the first thing you should be doing is making a new replacement. :P The real question is, do you wait to emerge from your secret lair/demiplane until after the 120 days has passed? Then you don't have to worry about being more vulnerable. Assuming you have Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, food and water won't be an issue.

Of course, your party members might get worried when they can't resurrect you, if you forgot to mention your clone backup plan. I could see a DM being all mysterious about why it's not working too, making the party think something else has taken their friend's soul hostage.

[RulesJD]

At least the vessel can be recycled. Once you emerge in your new body, the first thing you should be doing is making a new replacement. :P The real question is, do you wait to emerge from your secret lair/demiplane until after the 120 days has passed? Then you don't have to worry about being more vulnerable. Assuming you have Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, food and water won't be an issue.

Of course, your party members might get worried when they can't resurrect you, if you forgot to mention your clone backup plan. I could see a DM being all mysterious about why it's not working too, making the party think something else has taken their friend's soul hostage.

I think you might be misreading Clone. From the moment you cast the spell, the Clone has to mature for 120 days. So if you cast Clone and then die before those 120 days, you don't go into the clone (it hasn't 'matured' yet). However, if the 120 days pass and then you die, you can jump right out as the Clone, ready to go with no penalties.

[Temperjoke]

I think you might be misreading Clone. From the moment you cast the spell, the Clone has to mature for 120 days. So if you cast Clone and then die before those 120 days, you don't go into the clone (it hasn't 'matured' yet). However, if the 120 days pass and then you die, you can jump right out as the Clone, ready to go with no penalties.

I think you misunderstand what I meant. Scenario, you have died and emerged in your prepared clone body. You then cast the spell to begin a new clone body. Do you wait in your demiplane/lair for those 120 days to pass before leaving and resuming your life, in order to guarantee that you have a clone waiting that your soul can occupy? Or do you take the chance and leave, hoping that you won't die until after 120 days has passed and a new clone is waiting?

[RulesJD]

I think you misunderstand what I meant. Scenario, you have died and emerged in your prepared clone body. You then cast the spell to begin a new clone body. Do you wait in your demiplane/lair for those 120 days to pass before leaving and resuming your life, in order to guarantee that you have a clone waiting that your soul can occupy? Or do you take the chance and leave, hoping that you won't die until after 120 days has passed and a new clone is waiting?

Oh I just assumed most Wizard were like mine and would basically be creating new clones at every available opportunity, regardless of the state of the prior clone. If your campaign allows Wish to be learned at level up, it's a trivial matter because then you don't even need the GP.

[Temperjoke]

Oh I just assumed most Wizard were like mine and would basically be creating new clones at every available opportunity, regardless of the state of the prior clone. If your campaign allows Wish to be learned at level up, it's a trivial matter because then you don't even need the GP.

My personal feelings are that excessive use of cloning isn't really necessary, at least by PCs. Like, I get having one clone as a backup, with a spare spellbook and some gear waiting (in the assumption that you won't recover your original set). But there aren't any clear rules for when you have more than one of them, and that's just begging for DM shenanigans. Aside from that, if you don't have them all in the same spot, then you need an extra set of adventuring gear for each of them, which starts getting a little silly to maintain (how up to date is this particular book? for example), and if you do have them all in the same spot, if something happens, you could easily lose all your clones, which puts you back at square one.

Even then, at this level of play, having multiple clones may never even be a thing that's necessary for a PC, since you're on the scale of world-level threats at that point in the game life.

[Segev]

Well, problem with that is that once you open it to let the one active clone out, the rest of them will die.

Give the activated clones a means of teleporting out of the container. No need to open it, then. Maybe a glyph of warding keyed to a dimension door, or some sort of modified teleportation circle with a few charges per day that just goes from in the vessel to a decanting zone just outside.

[RulesJD]

My personal feelings are that excessive use of cloning isn't really necessary, at least by PCs. Like, I get having one clone as a backup, with a spare spellbook and some gear waiting (in the assumption that you won't recover your original set). But there aren't any clear rules for when you have more than one of them, and that's just begging for DM shenanigans. Aside from that, if you don't have them all in the same spot, then you need an extra set of adventuring gear for each of them, which starts getting a little silly to maintain (how up to date is this particular book? for example), and if you do have them all in the same spot, if something happens, you could easily lose all your clones, which puts you back at square one.

Even then, at this level of play, having multiple clones may never even be a thing that's necessary for a PC, since you're on the scale of world-level threats at that point in the game life.

I mean agreed, but I am also a firm believer of better safe than sorry haha.

But on a more practical note, with respect to equipment, that's what Drawmij's Instant Summons is all about. Absent being killed by something that then immediately grabs your robe/staff/spellbook/magic items/etc, you can just summon the sapphires (or just have them in your primary Demiplane). But by this point you have a Simulacrum making backup spellbooks for you, so that isn't too much of a concern.

[JackPhoenix]

Give the activated clones a means of teleporting out of the container. No need to open it, then. Maybe a glyph of warding keyed to a dimension door, or some sort of modified teleportation circle with a few charges per day that just goes from in the vessel to a decanting zone just outside.

Dimension Door isn't valid spell for Glyph of Warding, and you still have to cast Teleportation Circle. And I'm pretty sure opening 10' radius hole in space counts as "disturbing the vessel".

[Dalebert]

I've never really understood the GP cost being tied to the container, simply because they describe one of the possible containers as a "mud-filled cyst in the ground".

Now I'm not sure what kind of cyst we're talking about here, but I'm hard pressed to come up with how to make one worth 2000gp.

Digging fee: 20 gp.
Then Famous Sir Benevelt the untiring, Slayer of demons and protector of the realms peed in it. Appearance fee: 1980 gp.


Give the activated clones a means of teleporting out of the container. No need to open it, then. Maybe a glyph of warding keyed to a dimension door, or some sort of modified teleportation circle with a few charges per day that just goes from in the vessel to a decanting zone just outside.

That's an awful lot of trouble to save 2000 gp when you can make all the free clones you want in just a couple more levels hassle-free with Wish.