Best level 0 characters?

[Fable Wright]

Let's say that you're in a situation where you have your race and your background proficiencies. You also get the choice of one melee weapon proficiency or cantrip of your choice, as a form of training for your eventual class. Your HP are 6 + Con modifier, standard point buy, and you get the starting kit for one class of your choice.

What do you play?

I think I might go with a Forest Gnome Folk Hero. You get friendly townsfolk who might offer you a hunting hound that you can use for scouting or combat, and support them with a ranged cantrip attack. Minor Illusion and the power to get info from rats and birds make for decent utility. Seems decently rounded overall, though without the armor of a mountain dwarf or the bow of an elf, it has some serious risks combat.

[Blood of Gaea]

High-Elf, my racial cantrip is Greenflame Blade. My free cantrip is Mage Hand. My Background is Urban Bounty Hunter, I'll choose Stealth, Persuasion, and thieves tools as my proficiencies.

That should be pretty solid. This PC will become an Arcane Trickster.

[nickl_2000]

If you are only playing level 0 a dragonborn is solid? At level 0 that breath weapon in game changing.

[Potato_Priest]

At that point, optimization makes ludicrously little difference (apart from variant humans, nobody’s coming out ahead).

So, on that basis, I’d play something that I enjoy RPing. Right now a high elf translator who looks down on the lesser races (and uses his position as translator to put his own elitist spin on other people’s words) sounds fun, but it would depend on my mood at the time.

I’d use my elven weapon training to use a longbow in combat, pick minor illusion as my racial cantrip, and friends as my cantrip from level 0 rules.

Background would be sage for 2 languages, making a total of five (common, elvish, high elf racial, background).


High-Elf, my racial cantrip is Greenflame Blade. My free cantrip is Mage Hand. My Background is Urban Bounty Hunter, I'll choose Stealth, Persuasion, and thieves tools as my proficiencies.

That should be pretty solid. This PC will become an Arcane Trickster.

Sounds pretty good! High elf is certainly a great race with these rules. I’m curious though what you’ll use in your melee attacks for gfb. You’re only proficient in the longsword, but likely don’t have great stats for it.

[No brains]

Sounds pretty good! High elf is certainly a great race with these rules. I’m curious though what you’ll use in your melee attacks for gfb. You’re only proficient in the longsword, but likely don’t have great stats for it.

They would also have shortswords from elven weapon training.

This exercise is interesting to me for worldbuilding purposes. Imagine every commoner got their racial bonuses. Mountain Dwarf communities would not only have medium armor and martial weapon profs, they would also probably be able to make them with their smith's tools/ afford to buy them with their brewer's tools/ masonry tools. Every Mountain Dwarf community could be a castle that's got a well manned/armed militia with exports to support it.

Technically every dwarf commoner could have AC15, and +3 to hit with 1d6 twice. Noncombatants don't exist.

[Blood of Gaea]

Yep, the idea is to mainly use a longbow, with a shortsword + green flame blade for when enemies get close, especially if there's more than one.

A Hobgoblin with a heavy crossbow + rapier could also work very well for this, but I really like having perception proficiency to go with my background options.

[Potato_Priest]

Ah yeah, I forgot about the shirtsword proficiency. Thanks, guys!

[Teaguethebean]

If I were doing this I would change up the rules. If they are a commoner practically I would make health be 4+con and change the choices at lv 1 to always giving you a weapon but instead a cantrip or 2 more hp. Otherwise with so many weapon granting races the cantrip would be the obvious choice every time.

[Potato_Priest]

If I were doing this I would change up the rules. If they are a commoner practically I would make health be 4+con and change the choices at lv 1 to always giving you a weapon but instead a cantrip or 2 more hp. Otherwise with so many weapon granting races the cantrip would be the obvious choice every time.

You’re probably on the right track. However, I’d easily consider a cantrip worth more 2 hp, especially since when you’re at 4+con you don’t want to get hit at all anyway.

Giving some weapons to all and forcing a choice between cantrip and armor might be a better way of balancing.

[Rukelnikov]

The following races would do very good:

Mountain Dwarf (+2/+2 and Armor proficiency)
Elf (High/Wood) (Longbow Proficiency)
Githyanki (Weapons and Armor proficiency)
Goblin (Having BAs is always good I guess...?)
Goliath (Stone's Endurance is much more valuable with the low amount of hp)
Half-Orc (Relentless Endurance is much more valuable with the low amount of hp)
Hobgoblin (Proficiencies + Saving Face)
Vhuman (Feat)
Lizardfolk (AC, Nat att and BA attack for temp HP)
Tortle (AC 17)

[8wGremlin]

Human variant with a feat is very powerful.

[Mikaleus]

Human Variant - Magic Initiate Druid
or
Firbolg

But this is more in line with what I’d choose to play rather than optimisation.

[CTurbo]

I think any Lizardfolk would be great at level 0. Probably Tabaxi too.

[Teaguethebean]

You’re probably on the right track. However, I’d easily consider a cantrip worth more 2 hp, especially since when you’re at 4+con you don’t want to get hit at all anyway.

Giving some weapons to all and forcing a choice between cantrip and armor might be a better way of balancing.

I see what you mean so mabye everyone has 6+con but you can instead of a +2 hp get medium armor proficiency

[RulesJD]

Um, it depends. A level 0 has absolutely no equipment besides what is provided by their Background.

So yeah you might get proficiency in medium armor, but it doesn't mean you actually have the armor.

Presuming that's the case, as noted, V. Human for feat or Tortle will dominate. Goblin to be able to Disengage as a BA will also be strong to avoid being hit.

Overall though, Lizardfolk would be the top choice. It's the only race that (1) gives a Natural AC; (2) gives a Natural Weapon; (3) lets you craft better armor (shield) and weapons.

[Rukelnikov]

Um, it depends. A level 0 has absolutely no equipment besides what is provided by their Background.

So yeah you might get proficiency in medium armor, but it doesn't mean you actually have the armor.

Presuming that's the case, as noted, V. Human for feat or Tortle will dominate. Goblin to be able to Disengage as a BA will also be strong to avoid being hit.

Overall though, Lizardfolk would be the top choice. It's the only race that (1) gives a Natural AC; (2) gives a Natural Weapon; (3) lets you craft better armor (shield) and weapons.

You may not be able to get a Breastplate, but Scale Mail is only 50 gp

[Fable Wright]

So now I'm curious. Vhuman dominating has been mentioned often, but never the feat that would make it better than, say, High Elf. Assuming the strongest combat feat you CAN have with your limited proficiencies (polearm master + polearm), you deal an average of 4 more damage with glaive + bonus attack over an elven rapier + dual wielded dagger.

At that kind of damage, if someone can get one more attack over you (say because they have a bow and encounter starts at 90ft), you're outclassed, AND lack most noncombat utility stuff other races get.

What's causing it to dominate in this environment?

[Rukelnikov]

So now I'm curious. Vhuman dominating has been mentioned often, but never the feat that would make it better than, say, High Elf. Assuming the strongest combat feat you CAN have with your limited proficiencies (polearm master + polearm), you deal an average of 4 more damage with glaive + bonus attack over an elven rapier + dual wielded dagger.

At that kind of damage, if someone can get one more attack over you (say because they have a bow and encounter starts at 90ft), you're outclassed, AND lack most noncombat utility stuff other races get.

What's causing it to dominate in this environment?

I don't see it dominating, but it does have the greatest versatility.

[Potato_Priest]

So now I'm curious. Vhuman dominating has been mentioned often, but never the feat that would make it better than, say, High Elf. Assuming the strongest combat feat you CAN have with your limited proficiencies (polearm master + polearm), you deal an average of 4 more damage with glaive + bonus attack over an elven rapier + dual wielded dagger.

At that kind of damage, if someone can get one more attack over you (say because they have a bow and encounter starts at 90ft), you're outclassed, AND lack most noncombat utility stuff other races get.

What's causing it to dominate in this environment?

Hmm, good points. The best option variant human beings to the table is probably magic initiate for selected 1st level spells, but you’re right that it may not exactly dominate regardless.

The healer or inspiring leader feats would also be even more incredible than usual with such low base health.

[RulesJD]

You may not be able to get a Breastplate, but Scale Mail is only 50 gp

There is, to my knowledge, no background that provides 50gp. It also relies on having a store with it. It's also not 'starting equipment' per the PHB, so you would still have to start wherever you start and make your way to a place to buy it. If the scenario is "You wake up in a jail", you're kinda hosed.

Whereas Lizardfolk starts out with +1 Studded Leather and an Axe, and a way to heal a bit (pun intended).

V. Human I would generally see Inspiring Leader and Magic Initiate being top tier choices. Mage Armor or Goodberries being top tier choices for spell, campaign setting dependent.

[Rukelnikov]

There is, to my knowledge, no background that provides 50gp. It also relies on having a store with it. It's also not 'starting equipment' per the PHB, so you would still have to start wherever you start and make your way to a place to buy it. If the scenario is "You wake up in a jail", you're kinda hosed.

Whereas Lizardfolk starts out with +1 Studded Leather and an Axe, and a way to heal a bit (pun intended).

V. Human I would generally see Inspiring Leader and Magic Initiate being top tier choices. Mage Armor or Goodberries being top tier choices for spell, campaign setting dependent.

If the scenario is you wake up in jail you have no weapons or armor, it doesn't matter what your starting equipement may be. And obviously in a no equipement scenario, the equipment dependant characters will perform poorly.

[Aprender]

1. Variant human gets a feat at level 1. Y'all are talking about level 0.

2. Triton or sea elf but on a world where they spent a lot of time and energy melting polar ice caps. Water breathing gets a lot more exciting if there is no land mass.


Edit: spelling

[RulesJD]

1. Variant human gets a feat at level 1. Y'all are talking about level 0.

2. Triton or sea elf but on a world where they spent a lot of time and energy melting polar ice caps. Water breathing gets a lot more exciting if there is no land mass.


Edit: spelling

That's not accurate, though I am away from book at the moment. As I recall, there is no language about being awarded at level 1.

[Aprender]

You are correct. There is no specific language about the feat being awarded at level 1. It replaces the human's +1 to all ability scores with +1 to two scores and a feat of the player's choice.

I've always just assumed it happened at level 1 since there is no PC level 0. To assume it happens for all level 0 NPCs, given how powerful feats are, would make human NPC incredibly powerful throughout the game world. Could you imagine if every human NPC had lucky?

[Rukelnikov]

Is that stronger than every elf having proficiency in longbow and longsword plus a cantrip? Or every tortle having AC 17?

[RulesJD]

Is that stronger than every elf having proficiency in longbow and longsword plus a cantrip? Or every tortle having AC 17?

Yes? V. Human is basically the only races that can heal at level 0 (Aasimar heal their level, which at 0 is nothing).

[Aprender]

I would think so.

The average elf or tortle that wakes up and goes about his day farming or working as a tradesman probably never picks up his sword or has one swung at him, but i imagine that lucky would help out much more as an aggregrate across a race of people.

There isn't really a true answer as we are well outside of the bounds of the simulator that is D&D, but it's a fun thought experiment.

[Rukelnikov]

Yes? V. Human is basically the only races that can heal at level 0 (Aasimar heal their level, which at 0 is nothing).

Combat healing you mean, I doubt that's stronger than AC 17 tbh

[Rukelnikov]

I would think so.

The average elf or tortle that wakes up and goes about his day farming or working as a tradesman probably never picks up his sword or has one swung at him, but i imagine that lucky would help out much more as an aggregrate across a race of people.

No, that's definitely not the case, the proficiency comes from training, not some magical knowledge that's passed down during trance or something, they definitely swung a sword and had one swung at them plenty of times.


There isn't really a true answer as we are well outside of the bounds of the simulator that is D&D, but it's a fun thought experiment.

This is very likely.

[PwrHngryTortois]

Varient human with the magic initiate feat taking minor illusion, friends, and disguise self and the urchin background. You're already an arcane trickster in the making!

For combat the mountian dwarf soldier gets weapons and armor which is also cool, but not nearly as fun.

[Aprender]

True. I assume they've trained with them to the level of a level 0 char (proficient, but no skill bonus), but when the orc raiding party comes sweeping through the town, I'd rather use lucky on my hide check than swing a sword pasaably well.

Of course, that may say more about me than it does D&D. :)

Thanks for a fun discussion.

[Rukelnikov]

True. I assume they've trained with them to the level of a level 0 char (proficient, but no skill bonus), but when the orc raiding party comes sweeping through the town, I'd rather use lucky on my hide check than swing a sword pasaably well.

Of course, that may say more about me than it does D&D. :)

Thanks for a fun discussion.

Welcome to the playground ;)

[RulesJD]

Combat healing you mean, I doubt that's stronger than AC 17 tbh

First, it comes with two cantrips. So you're going to be hitting as hard as anyone else and from range. You don't need to rely on equipment that you won't have (if you have a focus which some Backgrounds can kinda provide).

Second, you have Goodberry. You can both bring someone back from the brink of death (something no one else can do) and sustain yourself in any environment indefinitely. That is worth it's weight in gold in any campaign where you're starting at such a low level. Otherwise, the best someone can do is try and stabilize you with a Medicine check. V. Human is the only one that can get them back in the action immediately.

But ultimately I would go with Lizardfolk, as just the best all arounder with built in AC, built in weapon, and some kinda build-in healing.

[Rukelnikov]

First, it comes with two cantrips. So you're going to be hitting as hard as anyone else and from range. You don't need to rely on equipment that you won't have (if you have a focus which some Backgrounds can kinda provide).

Second, you have Goodberry. You can both bring someone back from the brink of death (something no one else can do) and sustain yourself in any environment indefinitely. That is worth it's weight in gold in any campaign where you're starting at such a low level. Otherwise, the best someone can do is try and stabilize you with a Medicine check. V. Human is the only one that can get them back in the action immediately.

But ultimately I would go with Lizardfolk, as just the best all arounder with built in AC, built in weapon, and some kinda build-in healing.

I'd rather not be downed thanks to my AC 17 than be back up at one hp only to fall against next round. Also ranged cantrips don't hit as hard as Longbows with max initial Dex(+3) because they don't add Stat, 1d8+3(7.5) trumps Toll the Dead even on a damaged enemy (1d12 avg 6.5).

Lizardfolks doo seem like a solid choice, the BA bite makes them a serious threat.

[RulesJD]

I'd rather not be downed thanks to my AC 17 than be back up at one hp only to fall against next round. Also ranged cantrips don't hit as hard as Longbows with max initial Dex(+3) because they don't add Stat, 1d8+3(7.5) trumps Toll the Dead even on a damaged enemy (1d12 avg 6.5).

Lizardfolks doo seem like a solid choice, the BA bite makes them a serious threat.

You're a level 0 character, where are you getting the Longbow? You don't get starting equipment without a class, besides what a Background might provide.

[Rukelnikov]

You're a level 0 character, where are you getting the Longbow? You don't get starting equipment without a class, besides what a Background might provide.

In a store? Or wherever I learned to use it? Steal it from a sleeping guard? Borrow one from someone else? Idk, its not a magic weapon we're talking about.

[RulesJD]

In a store? Or wherever I learned to use it? Steal it from a sleeping guard? Borrow one from someone else? Idk, its not a magic weapon we're talking about.

A Longbow is 50gp. The Noble Background, presumably one of the richest possible, starts with 25gp. Literally double the value of what a filthy wealthy level 0 person would have for general money.

In terms of the parameters the OP set, you can't start with a Longbow as far as I can tell.

[Rukelnikov]

A Longbow is 50gp. The Noble Background, presumably one of the richest possible, starts with 25gp. Literally double the value of what a filthy wealthy level 0 person would have for general money.

In terms of the parameters the OP set, you can't start with a Longbow as far as I can tell.

I don't need to start with one, as I said, its a farily common item. As an elf, odds are you know more people who has a longbow than people who don't, getting one borrowed shouldn't be a problem.

[RulesJD]

I don't need to start with one, as I said, its a farily common item. As an elf, odds are you know more people who has a longbow than people who don't, getting one borrowed shouldn't be a problem.

I mean maybe in one particular campaign setting, sure.

In a gritty realism setting where you are mugged and left for dead in a dark cave, naked? Nope.

Under the OP's rules, which is you are a level 0 character, the only resources you would have are what's provided by your Race and Background, nothing else. I agree that your gaming experience might be different, but them's the rules as the OP posted them. He didn't say you would get starting equipment, or X GP worth of items. Just, level 0 and no class. Which means no Class starting equipment.

Otherwise all Hobgoblins would come with at least Padded Armor regardless of background, and they don't. A Wizard that starts as a High Elf with Elf Weapon Training still doesn't start with a Longbow.

[Rukelnikov]

I mean maybe in one particular campaign setting, sure.

In a gritty realism setting where you are mugged and left for dead in a dark cave, naked? Nope.

If you are naked in a cave it doesn't matter what you had for background now you have nothing


Under the OP's rules, which is you are a level 0 character, the only resources you would have are what's provided by your Race and Background, nothing else. I agree that your gaming experience might be different, but them's the rules as the OP posted them. He didn't say you would get starting equipment, or X GP worth of items. Just, level 0 and no class. Which means no Class starting equipment.

Otherwise all Hobgoblins would come with at least Padded Armor regardless of background, and they don't. A Wizard that starts as a High Elf with Elf Weapon Training still doesn't start with a Longbow.

I know I won't start with one, what I'm saying is, you have a reasonable chance of getting one before your first combat encounter. Although, as you said, our gaming experiences may vary.

[Fable Wright]

Just, level 0 and no class. Which means no Class starting equipment.

Edited the OP to allow you to take one class's starting equipment, though nothing else.

[Aprender]

If you can start with a trade skill, be a brewer for the gold it earns. Be an armorer and make you own armor. Etc.

[Lunali]

You are correct. There is no specific language about the feat being awarded at level 1. It replaces the human's +1 to all ability scores with +1 to two scores and a feat of the player's choice.

I've always just assumed it happened at level 1 since there is no PC level 0. To assume it happens for all level 0 NPCs, given how powerful feats are, would make human NPC incredibly powerful throughout the game world. Could you imagine if every human NPC had lucky?

Assuming it happens at level 0 and assuming it happens for all NPCs are two very different assumptions. I can see it being far more reasonable for a PC to get a feat before getting their first class level than for every human to have feats.