Combining invocations

[Ferathos]

Hello everyone, I have a simple-ish question. I'm playing a warlock who's about to get into hellfire warlock. Hellfire blast takes (at will) the place of eldritch blast, changing the energy type from eldritch/untyped to hellfire. That said, most places i've read, essence and shape invocations can still be applied as usual.
One of the essence invocations i have is hellrim blast, wich not only adds cold dmg, but also changes eldritch base dmg to cold.
So the question is, can i use them both together. If yes, would you rule that eldritch is first converted into cold and then into helfire? For an amusing combination of hell flames base with ice toping; Or viceversa, resulting in a full cold damage blast.
Thank you for reading.

[Troacctid]

Only the extra damage is hellfire damage. When used with hellrime blast, the base damage will be cold, and the extra 2d6 damage will be hellfire.

[MisterKaws]

Wow, I could've sworn I read somewhere that Hellfire Blast itself was a Blast Essence. You learn something new everyday, I guess. Even if it doesn't make any difference to your life.

[weckar]

Wow, I could've sworn I read somewhere that Hellfire Blast itself was a Blast Essence. You learn something new everyday, I guess. Even if it doesn't make any difference to your life.

Strangely enough, I was under the same impression.

Of course, I know WHY I had it. My warlocks tend to prefer Enlightened Soul over Hellfire Warlock, and for the ES their abilities DO work that way (as in they get unique essences).

[Mr Adventurer]

Strangely enough, I was under the same impression.

Of course, I know WHY I had it. My warlocks tend to prefer Enlightened Soul over Hellfire Warlock, and for the ES their abilities DO work that way (as in they get unique essences).

How do your Warlocks handle the lost caster levels from ES? (It doesn't advance CL.)

[weckar]

By not taking invocations that would have to overcome SR.

[Ferathos]

Ty for your replys, i gather that same reasoning would apply with brimstone blast, making the blast normal fire, and just the extra damage hellfire then.

[Mr Adventurer]

By not taking invocations that would have to overcome SR.

Or have any other effect tied to caster level, I suppose (which is fewer than in the case of spells of course). Thanks.

[MisterKaws]

Wait, it doesn't advance CL? Never noticed that. Wow, that's bad. First dispel at you and you lose every single constant spell.

[weckar]

There is that. Luckily, being a warlock, you pop those right back on.

[MisterKaws]

There is that. Luckily, being a warlock, you pop those right back on.

Still, losing your buffs mid-fight...

[weckar]

True, true. I have not come across this happening a lot (Dispel magic seems remarkably unpopular with NPCs), but it is something to be considered.

[Troacctid]

By not taking invocations that would have to overcome SR.
But...eldritch blast has to overcome SR. Are you not using eldritch blast? :smallconfused:

You could take vitriolic blast to avoid SR, but its bonus damage is still CL-dependent, and it's not compatible with the eldritch essences you get from enlightened spirit, including holy blast, which is used exclusively against fiends, who often have spell resistance. And I imagine your CL 5 transform magic at ECL 14 will look lackluster as well.

[MisterKaws]

But...eldritch blast has to overcome SR. Are you not using eldritch blast? :smallconfused:

You could take vitriolic blast to avoid SR, but its bonus damage is still CL-dependent, and it's not compatible with the eldritch essences you get from enlightened spirit, including holy blast, which is used exclusively against fiends, who often have spell resistance. And I imagine your CL 5 transform magic at ECL 14 will look lackluster as well.

Can't take Vitriolic Blast as well, considering you'd need to be Warlock 11 for that. If you do take it, you'll never finish Enlightened Spirit pre-epic.

[weckar]

But...eldritch blast has to overcome SR. Are you not using eldritch blast? :smallconfused:

You could take vitriolic blast to avoid SR, but its bonus damage is still CL-dependent, and it's not compatible with the eldritch essences you get from enlightened spirit, including holy blast, which is used exclusively against fiends, who often have spell resistance. And I imagine your CL 5 transform magic at ECL 14 will look lackluster as well.

I agree it is not ideal. Still, EB everything without SR, do other things to those with. It is hardly rocket science, even if it isn't elegant. Plus, there are plenty of ways to lower/remove SR.

I'm not advocating ES as a high power option here. I'm just saying you can work around its downsides.

[KillianHawkeye]

Wow, I could've sworn I read somewhere that Hellfire Blast itself was a Blast Essence. You learn something new everyday, I guess. Even if it doesn't make any difference to your life.

I know it's not, but I feel like it's best to think of hellfire blast like an eldritch essence invocation.

[skunk3]

Enlightened Spirit is a terrible option for Warlocks UNLESS you are playing gestalt. In a gestalt game it's pretty amazing. Personally I was never a fan of Hellfire Warlock because of the CON damage and the fact that you basically have to be evil, and in my experience evil games are far more rare than good games. The CON damage can be mitigated with the standard tricks but I feel like that's so cheap/cheesy. I've been playing in a gestalt game that is now pretty high level (22) and I am blasting for 17d6 damage along with any rider effects. (Continuing acid damage from Vitriolic Blast or negative levels from Utterdark Blast.)

As far as the way Hellfire Blast works, I've seen arguments that say that since you are shooting a Hellfire Blast instead of an Eldritch Blast, blast essences cannot be applied because they can only be applied to Eldritch Blasts. Personally, I think that is stupid and you should be able to add essences to Hellfire Blasts.

[Crake]

Only the extra damage is hellfire damage. When used with hellrime blast, the base damage will be cold, and the extra 2d6 damage will be hellfire.

The sample hellfire warlock would seem to disagree. The damage from the hellfire blast is simply listed as 12d6, not 6d6 plus 6d6 hellfire.

[Troacctid]

The sample hellfire warlock would seem to disagree. The damage from the hellfire blast is simply listed as 12d6, not 6d6 plus 6d6 hellfire.
Why would it need to draw that distinction? It's all untyped damage. :smallconfused:

[HouseRules]

Why would it need to draw that distinction? It's all untyped damage. :smallconfused:

True. Untyped Damage has many names.
Each Circumstantial Damage is Untyped unless a type is specifically named, and they stack if their Circumstances are different.