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Grod_The_Giant
2019-06-24, 08:47 PM
SMILE! You've got downtime!
The 5e rules provide plenty of guidance for active adventuring--kicking down doors, killing monsters, and taking their treasure. They're a lot more abstract when it comes to the things that characters do on their days off. If a player wants to build themselves a castle, or invent a repeating crossbow, or found a town, the DM is left pretty much totally in the dark. The SMILE system exists to extend some guidance to that sort of thing, to provide structure and depth without excess complexity.

The core of the system are Resource units-- abstract representations of the different things a big project might demand. Breaking the cost up into multiple types helps keep crafting from feeling like commerce-by-another-name, and allows for smoother integration into the flow of a game, while keeping things somewhat abstract keeps would-be craftsmen from getting bogged down in minutia.

What's a Project?
Put simply, a "project" is something that requires few active choices, but a great deal of effort. Cooking dinner isn't a project, because it doesn't take much effort (comparatively). Clearing a dungeon of goblins, or discovering who murdered the baron, aren't projects because they require numerous choices and decisions. Building a cathedral is a project-- once you've made the initial decisions, there's really not much more you can do. Forging a magic sword, or starting a guild, or clearing a forest--all of these might be projects, set into motion by a character but requiring little to no attention from the player.

The Five Resources
It's hard to accomplish great things without great effort. Sometimes that means thousands of laborers toiling night and day; other times it means years of brilliant scholarship or political maneuvering. Here, we abstract this effort as one of five types of Resource. Each unit of Resource represents a significant collection of the appropriate type of thing.

Supplies: A castle isn't going to get built without a lot of stone and timber. A team of scientists won't get much done without a well equipped lab. There are some projects that just need stuff. Supplies covers all sorts of raw material, from quarried stone to rare alchemical reagents. A shipment of lumber, the deed to an iron mine, and the establishment of a new trade route would all earn you Supplies. Expending Supplies means that they're physically gone-- your stockpiles are used up and your mines have run dry.
Magic: You can't make a magic item without the magic. Magic represents how much raw magical might you can call on to complete your project, be that in the form of natural wellsprings, spellcasting allies, or mystical reagents. A hired wizard, a demon's heart, and a broken enchanted sword would all count as Magic. Expending Magic means that reagents have been consumed, and your allies exhausted or out of patience.
Influence: It's not what you know, it's who you know. There are some things--particularly projects that might affect the local political order--that can't get done without the support of other powerful people. You probably can't build a castle on the king's lands without his permission, after all. Influence is an abstract measure of how much weight your name carries-- and how much dirt you have on your rivals. Throwing a grand ball, stealing private correspondence, and being knighted for valor in battle would all earn you Influence. Expending Influence means that you've called in favors and laundered your name for all it's worth.
Labor: Some projects are subtle, depending on the work of just a few experts, while some just need a thousand peasants toiling night and day. Labor is a representation of how many common workers you can drum up to help with your project. A favored owned by a town guild, a band of loyal retainers, or an unresting golem would all count as Labor. Expending Labor means that contracts with your workers have run out, of that wandering laborers have moved on.
Expertise: You need stuff, you need workers, but sometimes you also need a brain. Expertise represents how much planning you've done, how much lore has been discovered and how many scholars and master craftsmen you've recruited. A private library, a university scholar, and an ancient blueprint would all contribute to your Expertise. Expending Expertise means that you've exhausted existing sources of knowledge, and need to find more.


Gaining Resources
The easiest way to gain resources is just to buy them. As a general rule, one hundred gold will buy you one unit of Resources. The process varies, depending on what you're looking for-- buying Supplies might be as simple as walking up to a merchant and handing them a bag of gold, while buying Influence would probably demand a more indirect strategy of throwing parties and making favorable deals.

The slow but sure way to gather Resources is to produce them yourself. At the each week of downtime dedicated to gathering Resources, make a DC 15 ability check. If you succeed, you gain one unit of one Resource, plus an additional unit for every 5 points you beat the DC-- two units if you roll a 20, three units if you roll a 25, and so on. The ability, skill, or tool that applies will vary, depending on what you're attempting to gather-- mining iron ore might take a Strength check, gathering Influence might take a Charisma (Persuasion) check, and harvesting magic herbs might be an Intelligence (Herbalism Kit) check.

The final method is to earn Resources. At the DM's discression, characters might be able to find or earn Resources in the course of their adventures. If the party drives a tribe of goblins away from a village, perhaps they offer the party ten units worth of Labor, or perhaps the central eye of a beholder the party just killed is worth fifty units of Magic. If you're using the SMILE system, DMs should make an effort to include Resources as quest rewards.

Spending Resources
Once you've gathered Resources, you can spend them to complete a project. Every task has a specific cost, requiring so many units of such and such Resources. Building a castle or lobbying for a title takes time, though-- a project takes about one day per unit of Resource it requires. If you spend extra Resources, each extra unit committed to the project reduces the time required by one day, to a minimum of one-half the original time. The extra Resources must be of types the project already requires, though-- bringing in a team of scholars won't do much to speed up the construction of a city wall, nor will a mob of day laborers help forge a magic sword.

For most projects, your character doesn't have to be present for the full time. A construction site only needs to be checked in on occasionally, and even a magic item being worked on might involve extensive downtime. Howevern, if your character is directly involved in the process, you may make ability checks to hurry things along. At the end of each week, you may make a DC 15 ability check. On a success, double your progress for the week, effectively doing two week's worth of work in just seven days. For every 5 points by which they you the DC, they increase their progress by another week's worth of work-- three weeks if you roll a 20, four weeks if you roll a 25, and so on.

The DM determines the cost of a project. When doing so, a helpful strategy is to determine how much the project should cost in gold pieces, or how long it should take to construct, and then translate that into units using the formulas for gathering Resources. For example, say that a player wants to craft a Flame Tongue. As a Rare magic item, it would normally have a price of 500-5000 gold pieces-- 3500gp seems like a fair price, the DM decides, so forging the sword should require 35 units of resources. Most of that would be Magic, but Expertise seems like it would help too, since the player would need to know how to set the enchantments. Thus, the final price might be 30 units of Magic and 5 units of Expertise.

Transferring Resources
To a greater or lesser extent, Resources are local. Influence in one kingdom might not be useful in another; a mine ten miles away will much more helpful than one a thousand miles away.

You cannot spend Resources unless you're in the same location they were acquired. When you want to transport your stocks of Resources from one location to another, you will likely lose some along the way, whether due to bandits raiding your carts or distant workers being less helpful then nearby ones. Resources can be transported up to 10 miles with no trouble. You may bring them up to a hundred miles at the cost of one fourth of your stock or 20 gp/unit transferred. Transporting your Resources up to a thousand miles results in losing half your stocks (or paying 40gp/unit], and transporting them any farther results in the loss of three fourths of your stock (or 60gp/unit).

Alternately, the characters can commit to a full-time involvement in the process. At the DM's discretion, this might mean simply setting aside downtime to manage their affairs directly, or it could mean active adventuring to escort a caravan or bring word of their greatness to a new city.

Example Projects


Project
Gold Equivalent
Crafting Time (Days)
Supply
Magic
Influence
Labor
Expertise


Common Magic Item (x2)
100
1
--
1
--
--
--


Uncommon Magic Item
300
3
--
2
--
--
1


Rare Magic Item
3,000
30
--
25
--
--
5


Very Rare Magic Item
30,000
300
--
250
--
--
50


Legendary Magic Item
300,000
3000
--
2500
--
--
500


Cottage
100
1
1
--
--
1
--


Family Home
300
3
1
--
--
2
--


Modest Inn
600
6
2
--
--
4
--


Grand Inn
1,200
12
4


7
1


Manor
30,000
30
14
--
5
10
1


Keep
115,000
115
55
--
10
40
5


Castle
250,000
250
75
--
25
135
15


Flying Castle
500,000
5,000
50
4,700
--
150
100


Road (1 mile over easy terrain)
100
1
--
--
--
1
--


Road (1 mile over rough terrain)
200
2
--
--
--
2
--


Footbridge
200
2
--
--
--
2
--


Stone Bridge
400
4
1
--
--
3
--


Palisade Wall (100ft)
100
1
1
--
--
1
--


Stone Wall (100ft)
1,000
10
5
--
--
5
--


Found a Guild
250
25
--
--
25
--
--


Establish a Village
200
20
5
--
10
5
--


Magically protect a house
1,000
10
--
9
--
--
1


Magically protect a village
3,000
30
--
25
--
--
5



SMILE and Spells
The following new spells may be learned by Bards, Warlocks, and Wizards.

Unseen Laborer
2nd level conjuration (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 minute
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Concentration, up to 8 hours
This spell functions as Unseen Servant, but you conjure two invisible entities, each with a Strength score of 10. You may direct your servants to either gather Supplies from an appropriate source, or provide Labor on a project-- if you successfully concentrate for the full 8 hours, your servants gather 2 units of Supplies or reduce the Labor cost of an ongoing project by 2 units, to a minimum of zero.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, you conjure one additional laborer, and your servants can gather 1 additional unit of Supplies or reduce the Labor cost of a project by 1 additional unit for each slot level above 2nd.

Bigby's Helpful Hands
3rd level evocation (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 minute
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You create three pairs of Small hands of shimmering translucent force in unoccupied spaces you can see within range. These hands have AC 10, hit points equal to your casting ability bonus, Strength and Dexterity scores of 13, and Proficiency with one type of tool. These hands can be commanded to carry out tasks similar to an Unseen Servant.

You may direct the hands to either gather Supplies from an appropriate source, or provide Labor on a project-- if you successfully concentrate for the full hour, the hands gather 3 units of Supplies or reduce the Labor cost of an ongoing project by 3 units, to a minimum of zero.

B]At Higher Levels[/B]: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you conjure one additional pair of hands, with Strength and Dexterity scores 1 point higher. The hands can gather 1 additional unit of Supplies or reduce the Labor cost of a project by 1 additional unit for each slot level above 3rd.

Fabricate
5th level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Instantaneous
With the wave of a hand, you convert raw materials into finished product. Casting this spell provides the equivalent of one week of work on an ongoing project and reduces the Labor requirement by seven, to a minimum of zero. If the project requires Influence or Magic, this spell cannot reduce its crafting time below one day.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 6th level or higher, it provides an additional week's worth of work and reduces the Labor requirement by an additional seven units for every slot level above 5th

Segev
2019-06-25, 10:29 AM
My first impression is that this is a decent broad system, and I like the idea of Resources as additional kinds of rewards you can get from adventuring. However, this system is going to run into the same kinds of problems as any other crafting system: downtime is often non-existant. And yet, you don't want to turn it on its head and say, "Okay, sure, craft anything you want in 0 time!" either. So it's nice, but it's definitely useable only in particular kinds of campaigns. I don't know where players find DMs running campaigns with all this downtime; I've been in multiple circles of gamers and never seen it happen.

That said, my biggest suggestion would be in the locality problem. The rules you have make sense, but you should probably have a caveat or sidebar that discusses means of avoiding loss of material resources if PCs deign to manage the transport personally. At that point, they're doing the classic "caravan guards" adventure, but it's their own caravan. No need for rules for shrinkage; have the losses occur as specific results of events they're less than perfectly successful at defending against.

Grod_The_Giant
2019-06-25, 10:43 AM
My first impression is that this is a decent broad system, and I like the idea of Resources as additional kinds of rewards you can get from adventuring. However, this system is going to run into the same kinds of problems as any other crafting system: downtime is often non-existant. And yet, you don't want to turn it on its head and say, "Okay, sure, craft anything you want in 0 time!" either. So it's nice, but it's definitely useable only in particular kinds of campaigns. I don't know where players find DMs running campaigns with all this downtime; I've been in multiple circles of gamers and never seen it happen.
Yeah. It's not been my general experience either; at the same time, like you said, it's... sorta unavoidable in a crafting system; a core part of the conceit there is that you're spending time in place of money. Or, well, it can't really be accelerated by mundane means, at least, and 5e isn't terribly amiable to non-mundane means. I could work up some spells, but that would pretty much just take it into a toy for Wizards and no-one else. I mean, if I ever write that skill-tricks-for-5e project I've been mulling over, that would integrate well, but... I've added a note about crafting during downtime and speeding things up through direct involvement; hopefully that helps a bit.


That said, my biggest suggestion would be in the locality problem. The rules you have make sense, but you should probably have a caveat or sidebar that discusses means of avoiding loss of material resources if PCs deign to manage the transport personally. At that point, they're doing the classic "caravan guards" adventure, but it's their own caravan. No need for rules for shrinkage; have the losses occur as specific results of events they're less than perfectly successful at defending against.

That's fair-- I'll add a caveat.

Segev
2019-06-25, 02:15 PM
Probably the easiest thing to define for project complexity/resource cost will be magic items. How many units of resources do you think is fitting for various rarities of item? XtGE made scrolls and some potions doable in a couple of days; the DMG had even those take forever, IIRC. Your system breaks down if anything needs to go shorter than a week, but as long as we can round to a week, supports time lengths fairly well. Does the lack of daily granularity on the low end bother you? If not, the first "projects" section I suggest would be a basic "This rarity of magic item takes that many Resources units to craft." It can be elaborated upon to differentiate kinds of resources, if desired.

Grod_The_Giant
2019-06-25, 04:00 PM
Projects table is up. I derived magic item costs by picking a midpoint on the magic item price range; I got most of the others by looking at the table of building prices in the DMG, discarding it as insane, and going by construction time instead.

Quellian-dyrae
2019-06-25, 04:05 PM
I'd say remove time as a universal requirement. Make time a subset of Labor when time is strictly required for a project, but in most cases time investment will come from spending time to get resources (I'd also increase the value of spending time for resources to make it more competitive - it's a downtime system, so spending time should probably be the most efficient way to acquire resources, or at least competitive for that title).

It might also be worth making it possible to pay for some - and maybe even most - of the resource units with multiple types of resources. Or maybe doing some general things where different resources can substitute for each other in certain cases? I can very easily see situations where Expertise could substitute for Labor to limited degrees, Magic could probably reasonably substitute for both Supplies and Labor in most cases, the magic sword example might make more sense with Magic being the only required thing but Labor (as time) and/or Expertise and maybe even Supplies (appropriate magical materials and such) substituting to certain degrees. Like, if the magic sword costs 35 units of resources, maybe 20 of those have to be Magic, but the other 15 can either be Magic (just pouring more raw power into the enchantment), Expertise (crafting the enchantment with more skill and precision), Labor (spending more time on the enchantment), or Supplies (using materials and reagents that can be enchanted more easily/effectively). But this way, someone with sufficient magical resources saved up could just dump them all into enchanting the sword overnight, but someone with more time and skill can do the same thing with much less raw power.

Segev
2019-06-26, 02:44 PM
Projects table is up. I derived magic item costs by picking a midpoint on the magic item price range; I got most of the others by looking at the table of building prices in the DMG, discarding it as insane, and going by construction time instead.Given the discussion over lack of downtime being a problem, I think some of your times are way too long. Yes, you can shorten them by spending Resource Units, but even then, they remain too long.

Now, you could argue that this is only an issue for games that don't have enough downtime, but... I have never seen a game that lasts 3 in-game years. And that's the bare minimum for making a Very Rare magic item into which you pour 450 Resource Units (250 magic, 50 expertise, +150 of either in any combination for a reduction of 150 weeks). I'd go on to complain about the 30 year minimum to make a Legendary item, but I'll agree that maybe your intent here was that no PC should ever make one.


I'd say remove time as a universal requirement. Make time a subset of Labor when time is strictly required for a project, but in most cases time investment will come from spending time to get resources (I'd also increase the value of spending time for resources to make it more competitive - it's a downtime system, so spending time should probably be the most efficient way to acquire resources, or at least competitive for that title).This is an interesting approach. Instead of "time" make it "man-hours" and make those a component of "labor" and "expertise." Maybe even make taking extra time be a way of reducing labor and expertise costs.

Then you make the default times be 1 to 4 weeks, which neatly corresponds to the generally assumed downtime lumps the DMG and XtGE give us. Multiple lumps can be spent to compensate for lack of some resources, or to gather resources of a sort that we don't have.

Grod_The_Giant
2019-06-26, 05:35 PM
Hmm. Time is an issue, yeah...

What if I attach one unique rule to each resource? Labor can increase time; Magic can be used 1:1 (1:2? 2:3?) with other resources; Influence can be the only one to really worry about locality; Supply and Expertise... um... can something. Rules about storage and rules about reuse, maybe?

Quellian-dyrae
2019-06-26, 06:29 PM
Maybe for Expertise every X Expertise spent permanently reduces the Expertise requirements of other projects of the same type by 1, since you actually learn stuff and don't have to "figure out" as much next time. Eventually work on the same sort of project enough and your Expertise costs for it are free.

For Supplies, maybe you can directly exchange Supplies for gold.

Although it strikes me that this means Magic (and Expertise and Supplies if you do the above) have a beneficial rule while Labor and Influence have detrimental ones. I'm not sure if that's a huge deal but it twigs my balance sense. Maybe keep the base time rules and let additional units of Labor reduce time? And Influence...maybe could have a lower cost for Influence in smaller areas?

Grod_The_Giant
2019-06-26, 08:40 PM
I see what you mean about your balance-sense. Extra Labor could maybe speed things up twice as fast as other resources, and Influence-only (or Influence-mostly, at least) projects could take no time at all to complete? At the same time, I don't want to hang too many extra rules on this...

A crafting-focused feat might help too. +1 Int, and when you make a check to accelerate a project you calculate time in days instead of weeks? I'm kind of inclined to tackle the timing thing from this end. If a campaign isn't going to have enough downtime for groups (or at least groups without a dedicated crafter and/or a hefty dose of magic) to build a castle, it probably wasn't a campaign where building a castle matters.

Great Dragon
2019-06-26, 08:55 PM
About Downtime:
If there's not a lot being given out, but the DM is keeping track of Time during the game: once the protect is started (might only take a day for the PC to set up, spending Resources as appropriate) accumulated Adventuring Time counts as Downtime for that project. The PC just checks on progress when appropriate, without cutting into Play Time.
I would put a limit on how many projects can be "maintained" at once, though.


****
What about Checks for Complications?
I think it's 10% per week.

Would Influence be able to affect this?

Acquiring Influence may need a check on the Carousing (Gambling?) Table.

****

Optional: For more uses of Influence, maybe for each Resource type?

As stated: Influence needed to build on the Noble/King's land.

But, what about for acquisition of a Mine?
And more importantly, protection of hired miners.
Influence could either be needed, and/or could reduce "mishap" chances.


****

How about Influence to lower the cost of Supply (Merchants), Labor (Unions) and/or Expertise (Guilds)? Most likely 2:1, more if not local.


****
Maybe Magic can reduce material loss, but costs 2 Magic per Supply Unit?
For straight Teleportation: this might be 5 Magic per Unit.

The DM decides if Treasure/Gold can be used instead for most Resources, especially in the case where the PC has just cleaned out a Dragon's Lair.

Segev
2019-06-26, 10:32 PM
I actually think the "locality" thing is interesting, and should be kept for most if not all resources. I'd actually make "Influence" be the one that is most easily traded for others, as it's kind-of the "get others to do this for me" one.

Zhorn
2019-06-27, 06:33 AM
I'd say remove time as a universal requirement. Make time a subset of Labor

I'd vote fore this general concept also.

Rather than create a whole new rule system for it though, make it utilise a core part of 5e. Proficiency Bonus.

Change the expected crafting time from weeks to days (multiply them up if needed) and treat that as the Labor component. Each worker on a project contributes their Proficiency bonus worth of Labor per day (means also that all projects, no matter how many people you throw at it, cannot be completed faster than 1 day).

Speaking of throwing bodies at a project. Hirelings are already a part of the PHB, might as well make use of them.
Untrained hirelings are cheap, but they'll only count as a +1 with no skills.
Skilled hirelings have a +2 proficiency and a proficient skill for a additional +1 in their relevant area to justify that 2 gp a day.
You were mentioning experts? Here's a spot to put them in as the folks with more pluses than that.

Then you can attach special requirements or benefits of different proficiencies for different projects. Examples:

Building a mundane keep? Hire a bunch of muscle-bound workers with proficiency in Athletics. Strength modifier + Proficiency bonus worth of Labor from each worker per day
Sacred Temple? You'll need at least 100 Labor from a Religion proficient priest to consecrate the ground.
Commissioning a magic item? Lets hope that blacksmith has a proficiency in Arcana, otherwise they can only complete half the project. Same for that wizard you hired, they're gonna need someone with a proficiency with blacksmith tools if they cannot make the sword's physical form themselves.


Players can pursue crafting in their downtime on their own, or hire workers to chip away at a task while they're off wedding dragons and slaying princesses.

Grod_The_Giant
2019-06-27, 04:20 PM
I'm kind of inclined to keep the timing thing simple. The idea was to have a crafting system that was both simple and put more emphasis on gathering materials (which quite possibly means adventuring) and less on the actual act of crafting (which generally means doing nothing while fast forwarding time). Adding a bunch of unique rules would start to drive complexity up for, I think, no major purpose.

To compensate somewhat for the slow times, I'm thinking of adding a feat and some magic for crafting-focused characters.

I figure the feat would let you calculate time in days instead of weeks, as long as you're actively working on the project-- that brings a fully-invested Very Rare item down to half a year and a Legendary one to 4 years, or less if you roll well. (And a Rare one to, like, 2 weeks, and an Uncommon to under 2 days). That's a lot more reasonable.
The spells, I'm thinking, will provide Labor, or allow you to gather Supplies from an appropriate source. Higher level ones like a revamped Fabricate might just auto-complete stuff...


... Or maybe I should just make days the default and crank up the cost of castles and such. Have weeks be a gritty realism option. That might be better...

Grod_The_Giant
2019-06-28, 01:31 PM
Update: changed the base crafting rate to one day/unit and added spells.