Extreme Long range combat help

[Nagog]

As the topic states, I'd like some advice on how to run combat for a character that is building for extremely long range. The character is a Warlock that is taking both Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear, giving their Eldritch Blast an effective range of 600 feet. Awesome and unique powerbuilding, but DMing that is going to be difficult, as they are also looking to take Levitate to allow them to have an instant vantage point as well as extreme distance from the battle. Any advice on how to loop them in on the action without having to run 2 separate combat encounters, one of which kinda just appears out of thin air whenever they attempt this?

[Haydensan]

Not too sure. Though the it'll be a balancing act not to upset the player with some things:

Against smarter (or even just "not dumb") opponents i think they would just take cover as soon as the blasts start coming in from ~600ft away. They have no way to retaliate so I'm not sure if I'd go into a more narrative style asking what the players want to do from moment to moment (almost like combat I guess, but more free form until they're in a more reasonable distance of each other).

[Man_Over_Game]

As the topic states, I'd like some advice on how to run combat for a character that is building for extremely long range. The character is a Warlock that is taking both Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear, giving their Eldritch Blast an effective range of 600 feet. Awesome and unique powerbuilding, but DMing that is going to be difficult, as they are also looking to take Levitate to allow them to have an instant vantage point as well as extreme distance from the battle. Any advice on how to loop them in on the action without having to run 2 separate combat encounters, one of which kinda just appears out of thin air whenever they attempt this?

Have things that take place past the 120 feet mark be off of the map, but using Theater of the Mind to play. It doesn't really matter where exactly the enemies are or where the Warlock is, as the tactics don't really change all that much, and exact positioning of 30 speed creatures isn't going to play a big part. So just track what creatures have cover, which ones don't, and don't pay attention to the grid until the two groups clash.

Then have the enemies use tactics like players would: Hide behind cover, move at the same time, prepare counterattacks between moving to provide suppressive fire.

As for determining what's cover, I'd just rule that, Without Levitate, any object that blocks line of sight is considered "Cover". With Levitate, just say that objects within 120 feet can only count as cover when you're adjacent to them, and objects within 30 feet don't count as cover at all.

It shouldn't be relevant to every fight, but it should be relevant to maybe 1/3. Enemies move at a distance of about 60-80 feet per round, and standard distances resume at 120 feet, so assume there'll be about 6-8 rounds of the Warlock just making free shots against targets that are visible. You could also say that, past 120 feet, all forms of cover are amplified by one measure (so 1/2 cover is now 3/4 cover, and 3/4 cover is now full cover). This way, sniping people in a forest is much harder than sniping them on a plain.

[Vorpalchicken]

Most of the time he won't be in a position to put that much distance between himself and his enemies. Unless he starts 600 feet away from the party. In that case he risks getting ambushed and isolated.
Longbows can reach 600 feet. You could even give an enemy sharpshooter to hit with no range penalty. You don't want to to do this too often of course.
Other options are ballista , fast flyers, teleporters (possibly including tree striders) and storm giant quintessents to give him a really bad day.

[Setharious]

What if the party had to siege some kind of castle, allowing the warlock to stay back while the rest of the party went in. If the party also had some form of long range commu location to coordinate their attacks, combat for the full party could occur at the same time. While fighting, have the enemy do perception checks whenever the warlock attacks to see if they even notice where the attack is coming from.

[RulesJD]

Do what people did in real life when one side has more accurate + longer range weapons.

Hide behind trees or in caves in the open, or fight inside walls/buildings. Make the enemy come to you.

[Zetakya]

Invisibility, sneak to within range, Dispel Levitate, keep Counterspelling any attempt to cast it again, watch the Warlock hit the floor, hard.

[Man_Over_Game]

Invisibility, sneak to within range, Dispel Levitate, keep Counterspelling any attempt to cast it again, watch the Warlock hit the floor, hard.

Erm, you may have missed this part of Levitate:

When the spell ends, the target floats gently to the ground if it is still aloft.

[Naanomi]

Use distant spell to double that... may need a familiar to spot for you though

[Rukelnikov]

Longbows have 600 ft reach...

How often do you see archers staying 600 ft away from combat? 150? Yeah that's "common", 600 ft away? not so common. Building, dungeons, caves, forests, most locations won't allow for the full benefits of 600 ft range.

[DarkKnightJin]

Have things that take place past the 120 feet mark be off of the map, but using Theater of the Mind to play. Then have the enemies use tactics like players would:

Hide behind cover, move at the same time, prepare counterattacks between moving to provide suppressive fire.

As for determining what's cover, I'd just rule that, Without Levitate, any object that blocks line of sight is considered "Cover". With Levitate, just say that objects within 120 feet can only count as cover when you're adjacent to them, and objects within 30 feet don't count as cover at all.

It shouldn't be relevant to every fight, but it should be relevant to maybe 1/3. Enemies move at a distance of about 60-80 feet per round, and standard distances resume at 120 feet, so assume there'll be about 6-8 rounds of the Warlock just making free shots against targets that are visible. You could also say that, past 120 feet, all forms of cover are amplified by one measure (so 1/2 cover is now 3/4 cover, and 3/4 cover is now full cover). This way, sniping people in a forest is much harder than sniping them on a plain.

While I would say the 'upgrade cover 1 rank' os a decent attempt.. Keep in mind that anything under Full cover means *nothing* to a Spell Sniper, as it's the magic version of Sharpshooter on that regard.

[Man_Over_Game]

While I would say the 'upgrade cover 1 rank' os a decent attempt.. Keep in mind that anything under Full cover means *nothing* to a Spell Sniper, as it's the magic version of Sharpshooter on that regard.

Yup, that was kind of the intent. That way, the DM can comfortably put in some mild cover (like trees) and have it still be relevant against people using Sharpshooter or Spell Sniper.

I'd also implement a rule that your height can be used to ignore an enemy's cover based on their distance to you.

That is, if the difference in height between you and the enemy is equal to the distance (so if you're 20 feet higher, and they're 20 feet away), cover is reduced by one level. If height is x2 or more than the distance (30ft of height vs. 15 feet), then reduce cover by 2 levels.

This way, getting a height advantage against a nearby target is an effective way of removing a target's Full Cover status.

[Nagog]

I should clarify that the campaign setting is very open-world, much less dungeon delving and more city streets, airship battles (airships usually have artillery-style weapons so I'm less concerned about that) and open world interactions. While I wish to reward the player for thinking outside the box and adapting to a new play style, this presents a unique take on combat, and in such a fantasy setting, not every encounter is going to include an enemy capable of attacking at that range.

[RulesJD]

I should clarify that the campaign setting is very open-world, much less dungeon delving and more city streets, airship battles (airships usually have artillery-style weapons so I'm less concerned about that) and open world interactions. While I wish to reward the player for thinking outside the box and adapting to a new play style, this presents a unique take on combat, and in such a fantasy setting, not every encounter is going to include an enemy capable of attacking at that range.

Then there will be combats where that player excels. *shrug*

It's no different than a Longbow user taking Sharpshooter and pulling off the same effect, except they can add a crapton of damage too. If you want open-world combat, don't be surprised that players adapt to it. Whether the enemies react and adapt (via getting Longbows of their own) is up to you.

[darknite]

I've got a 20th level archer who has probably never made a shot past 300' (killed some frost giants at that range once) and most shots were within 60'. Unless you're playing in the steppes, in the air or in the desert long range shots are far and few in between.

[Chronos]

There's no way that you're getting 600' range on city streets. You may be thinking of new cities, with long streets laid out on a regular grid. But old cities have a patchwork mess of streets that seldom stay straight for more than a block. And even if you do find a long straight street (maybe one of the past emperors was a former artillery officer and went to some effort to re-build the city to allow for long lines of fire), you'll still have buildings much closer to you than that, that an enemy could come out of and close to melee with you immediately.

[Man_Over_Game]

To help with visualizations, 600 feet is about two football fields worth of distance. So pretty far, but less than half a mile, and less than 1/10 of the world's longest confirmed sniper kill.

[Mercurias]

I love the idea of a super super long-ranged sniper warlock. It makes great sense for assassinations.

One thing I would mention that I didn't see when reading the thread is that Spell Sniper will let Eldritch Blast ignore half and 3/4ths cover, so if you're planning on putting a lot of full cover options out for your minions when outdoors, I'd make sure to keep that in mind.

In practice, your player isn't going to get a whole lot out of his super long-range blasts. The average combat players can expect to encounter doesn't often happen in spaces that large. In a large-scale battlefield? Sure. Snipe that general with a Repelling Blast and knock him off his war-elephant. That would be incredibly sweet. In a dungeon, though, you're looking at a space of maybe 100 square feet or so for a large room.

[Naanomi]

Half Elf Warlock (2)/Fighter (2)/Rogue(Assassin 3)/Sorcerer (Shadow X) with spell-Sniper and Elven Accuracy can assassinate with a flurry of auto-critical blasts at a vast distance; makes a good assassination schtick

[LudicSavant]

As the topic states, I'd like some advice on how to run combat for a character that is building for extremely long range. The character is a Warlock that is taking both Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear, giving their Eldritch Blast an effective range of 600 feet. Awesome and unique powerbuilding, but DMing that is going to be difficult, as they are also looking to take Levitate to allow them to have an instant vantage point as well as extreme distance from the battle. Any advice on how to loop them in on the action without having to run 2 separate combat encounters, one of which kinda just appears out of thin air whenever they attempt this?


I should clarify that the campaign setting is very open-world, much less dungeon delving and more city streets, airship battles (airships usually have artillery-style weapons so I'm less concerned about that) and open world interactions. While I wish to reward the player for thinking outside the box and adapting to a new play style, this presents a unique take on combat, and in such a fantasy setting, not every encounter is going to include an enemy capable of attacking at that range.

Levitate only raises you up 20 feet at a time, so reaching them shouldn't be too difficult (height-wise). That's still within easy arm's reach of a giant, and other people can use reach weapons and/or jump. And if they get really high, they're running the risk of a nasty fall if they happen to get dispelled or lose their Concentration.

Also, if they're much further away than their comrades and their comrades aren't very fast, they will be vulnerable to isolate and conquer tactics. Have enemies sneak around the vanguard and then the party has to scramble to regroup (and might be impeded by wall spells, terrain, or other obstacles).

Enemies who are simply out of range to respond will probably just head for cover, breaking line of sight with the Warlock's chosen sniper perch and then either fighting the rest of the party, or trying to find a way to sneak around to the sniper's perch.

Even in open areas against limited-range foes, some good tactics can do a lot to encourage the party to not split up too much.


To help with visualizations, 600 feet is about two football fields worth of distance. So pretty far, but less than half a mile, and less than 1/10 of the world's longest confirmed sniper kill.

Yeah. A good deal less than half, in fact. It's only about 1/9th of a mile. Though the impact of said range is exaggerated by the fact that D&D 5e movement speeds are slower than reality (A "dash" is just ~6.8 mph (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=16wSXaXsJcW_tQbXyZAg&q=60+feet+per+6+seconds+to+mph&oq=60+feet+per+6+seconds+to+mph&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4998.25722..25837...5.0..0.136.1759.2j14... ...0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i30j0i67j35i39j0i8 i7i30j0i5i30.FtQAsVMaVQY)).

Also AFAIK the longest sniper kill is 3540 meters (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/40381047/a-canadian-sniper-breaks-the-record-for-the-longest-confirmed-kill-shot---but-how), or ~11,600 feet. So 600 feet is just about 1/19th of that.

[Sparky McDibben]

If you're looking to cramp their style a bit, maybe have some enemies equip tower shields that give total cover to their wielders and anyone behind them. For more fun, give the shieldbearers hand crossbows (for use against the rest of the party) and let the rest of the party have to take them out. If they don't, the party suffers without their long-range support. If they do, you've integrated the fight between the two groups.

[Lupine]

Yeah. Though the impact of said range is exaggerated by the fact that D&D 5e movement speeds are slower than reality (A "dash" is just ~6.8 mph (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=16wSXaXsJcW_tQbXyZAg&q=60+feet+per+6+seconds+to+mph&oq=60+feet+per+6+seconds+to+mph&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4998.25722..25837...5.0..0.136.1759.2j14... ...0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i30j0i67j35i39j0i8 i7i30j0i5i30.FtQAsVMaVQY)).

Admittedly, those rules apply equally to a heavy an light armor proficient lvl 20 20str fighter wearing studded leather, against one wearing plate, which simply doesn't make sense. I'd bet that under most conditions, people wearing plate move at that 6.8 you cite. To simplify rules on running, everyone is given a flat speed, that is realistic (I think), assuming people are moving with full plate, and with a weapon. Sure it doesn't make absolute sense, but it makes sense from a game design viewpoint.

Also take into mind that the longest longbow shot recorded was over 1000 feet. 600 feet is much shorter to compensate.

[Mad_Saulot]

You control all perception, you can only shoot what you can see, how far can you see? Go outside and take a rangefinder, then see for yourself that the range of human vision is frequently limited, your vision range is radically dependant on local conditions such as visibility, the contours of the land, elevation etc, for instance even in perfect conditions a man with a high powered rifle with regular iron sights would have trouble hitting anything beyond 100ft, you need a scope to hit anything further reliably, but lets not have real life spoil fun eh?

I'd include a few instances per game where his sniping is useful, just to make him feel useful, but in a regular game anything over 100ft away doesnt happen