Lifting a Curse

[TheClaimer]

Ok so I'm hoping for a little help with some ideas on how to lift a curse my players are likely have placed on them. They have been confronting a grandmother hag, and have overcome her defenses so she is now bargaining with them. She has an innocent girl she has corrupted, and is offering the girls life and removing the hags influence in exchange for leaving the hag alone. If they don't the girl will die. It's looking like the girl will die, as half the party is pretty set on killing the hag. (either way hag gets away, she has an escape plan, weird magic style). When the girl is dying she places a curse on the party.

First, the Curse: In my game I have not been including critical fails or critical successes on rolls. I never really liked them. Instead I will be co-opting the critical fail for this curse. Whenever the player would critically fail a roll they see a spectral image of the girl they allowed to die and take some psychic damage.

So my questions are, in your experience:
What would be an appropriate way to handle the damage? 1d6? 3d4 will save for half?
Should the curse apply to the whole party? or only those who argued for the course of action leading to the girl's death?
what would be a thematic way to lift the curse? I plan on having remove curse not work for this.

Thank you for your input and ideas I really appreciate y'all helping this new DM out a bit.

[JNAProductions]

Why is the girl cursing them and not the hag?
What happens if the hag can't escape?

[SMac8988]

Your looking at about a 5% chance of a natural 1, and if to any check or roll it can pop up at some pretty terrible times for the party. Imagine a death saving throw cost the player their life over that, big oof.

But I also like the idea of the Hag using the little girls visage to torment the players, I'd hit them all with it. And cause I'm more sadistic in nature I would put it on 20s instead of 1s. Punishment for great success when they felt succeeding was sacrificing the little girls life. Poetic to me, but like I said in dark.

Also what happens if the hag cant escape? Does she do the curse at the start of the encounter, killing the girl in the first turn or is it something that takes time to build the spell?

I enjoy courses honestly, give the party a really interesting side quest if you remove the ability of remove curse to be a quick fix. They have to go out, find ingredients and someone to fix the problem. Sorry sde rant....

[TheClaimer]

Essentially the girl curses them as she dies for choosing vengeance over saving her life. It's unlikely they'll manage to kill the hag, as she has the weird magic equivalent of a one time use word of recall, so they'd have to manage to nova her down before she gets a turn. In that case the curse still happens.

[JNAProductions]

Essentially the girl curses them as she dies for choosing vengeance over saving her life. It's unlikely they'll manage to kill the hag, as she has the weird magic equivalent of a one time use word of recall, so they'd have to manage to nova her down before she gets a turn. In that case the curse still happens.

Again-why wouldn't she curse THE HAG. The one who has kept her prisoner! The one who's been torturing her!

I get that the players aren't being the best they can be right then, but that just makes no sense to me.

[SMac8988]

Again-why wouldn't she curse THE HAG. The one who has kept her prisoner! The one who's been torturing her!

I get that the players aren't being the best they can be right then, but that just makes no sense to me.

I went the other way, seeing the hag using the girls life to power the curse. Ya I dont get why she would curse them and not the hag.

[TheClaimer]

That's a good point... So I need to have the hag being the one that originates the curse, not the girl. That doesn't really take to much altering what I have planned, and would allow the party the possibility of avoiding the curse by killing the hag quickly instead of railroading them into it.

OK I'm convinced.

As for the on failure bit I plan on role playing the failures as being interrupted by the curse, which is what is causing the failure, IE PC is making a sneak check and suddenly the screaming visage of the dead girl appears causing them to cry out, ruining the sneak chance, and taking some psychic damage in the process. I want it to hurt enough that they'll want to be rid of it, but not so much that it overshadows the main quest.

Dealing with the curse, due to some upcoming events, isn't something that is going to be immediately available to them.

[Keravath]

Again-why wouldn't she curse THE HAG. The one who has kept her prisoner! The one who's been torturing her!

I get that the players aren't being the best they can be right then, but that just makes no sense to me.

Perhaps the girl is still corrupted and curses the players for trying to kill her benefactor the hag? I agree that if the girl is not under the influence of the hag then the obvious target of the curse is the hag and not the PCs because the hag put the girl into this situation. The only reason I can see the girl cursing the players is if she is still under the hag's influence.

Also, why would the hag bargain at all if she has a 100% fail safe method of escaping? She would just use it before the characters get a chance to do anything at all. Would probably use it as soon as she finishes tormenting them and then watch from afar as her little puppet curses the characters before dying.

In my opinion, there should be a good reason why the hag does not want to use her method of escape except in the most dire circumstance and a good reason why she would be expected to keep her bargain with the players.

From a character perspective, there is no reason at all to trust that a monstrous creature like a hag would keep their word - so unless there is some way to assure this, the characters would probably believe the girl is dead no matter what choice they make so their best course of action would be to take out the hag so that they don't do the same to any other girls and try to save the girl, if possible, afterward.

Vengeance isn't the only reason to decide to eliminate the hag, especially in any situation in which you are doubtful that they will keep their promises.

[TheClaimer]

The hag in my game at least has been role played as the fey equivalent to a devil. An aspect of her nature is that she will always uphold her end of the bargain when made, though she will try to twist it as much as she can, she must obey the letter of the law so to speak.

As for why she hasn't chosen to just escape, it's cause her weird magic can only be used once and it's gone. It's a one of a kind magic object is is more valuable to her than the girl is. She can get another girl, she can't get another one of these (I don't have a name for it)

[Teaguethebean]

Sounds to me like your party will be very disgruntled by the hag escaping no matter what they do just saying.
(Is there actually no way for them to succeed?)

[Hobbo Jim]

Maybe the girl herself has been made irrational, or maybe don't think about it as actively placing a curse. Maybe she dies and becomes an angry spirit and just haunts whoever is nearby. The hag isn't nearby, so hag isn't cursed. Party is.



Also, why would the hag bargain at all if she has a 100% fail safe method of escaping? She would just use it before the characters get a chance to do anything at all. Would probably use it as soon as she finishes tormenting them and then watch from afar as her little puppet curses the characters before dying.

In my opinion, there should be a good reason why the hag does not want to use her method of escape except in the most dire circumstance and a good reason why she would be expected to keep her bargain with the players.

From a character perspective, there is no reason at all to trust that a monstrous creature like a hag would keep their word - so unless there is some way to assure this, the characters would probably believe the girl is dead no matter what choice they make so their best course of action would be to take out the hag so that they don't do the same to any other girls and try to save the girl, if possible, afterward.

No one ever wants to use their 1 time use thing! Plus hags love making deals. Maybe it's too tempting to make a deal, or the hag is overconfident and is pretty sure she can strike a deal.

I think I disagree with not trusting it - PCs are often forced to put some amount of faith into an enemy. In addition, hags are relatively well known for making deals, just like how OP related them to devils. I find that hags tend to be a little more "RAI" while devils are "RAW", where what's intended is up to the hag. Hags, while fiends, are fey-like and i'm pretty sure were classified as fey in other editions, meaning that promises have real, magical effects. That said, I do think it would be very foolish to simply trust a hag at her word, thinking everything will go wonderfully.

[TheClaimer]

Sounds to me like your party will be very disgruntled by the hag escaping no matter what they do just saying.
(Is there actually no way for them to succeed?)

they've had multiple warnings in game that the thing they're facing has survived untold centuries not by being incredibly powerful like a dragon, but by being incredibly crafty and sly.

They could manage to stop her from escaping, but she's not dumb enough to fight the party head on, she knows she'd lose, so she's going to run. They'd have to manage to kill or incapacitate her before she runs. It's possible, I just don't think they'll manage it.

She's making a deal, and will probably make one favorable to the part, though she's loath to do so, because even a deal she can't twist is better than losing all the stuff she's collected over her long life as the party would likely burn her home after she left.

But eventually really anything can be replaced so none of it is worth risking her life in a losing battle.

[Teaguethebean]

They could manage to stop her from escaping, but she's not dumb enough to fight the party head on, she knows she'd lose, so she's going to run. They'd have to manage to kill or incapacitate her before she runs. It's possible, I just don't think they'll manage it.


That makes it far more reasonable but don't be surprised if they do. Players be tricksy I say!

[Sparky McDibben]

So I get why the girl would curse the PCs instead of the hag. That makes sense to me and I love it!

However, what if you took it a step forward? What if the little girl actually haunts the PCs? What if when the PC rolls a 1, that represents her being able to breach into the real world and affect the PCs?

So, the PC rolls a 1 on an attack, and sees the ghost of the girl possess their sword. Next round, the sword animates (as an animated sword) and attacks the PC. Or the rogue's thieves' tools now impose disadvantage for an hour as they subtly struggle against them.

This has a few neat storytelling implications. One, she's bonded to the PCs, so she can't be dispelled or removed as a curse could. Two, it gives her the possibility of a redemption arc. Three, it gives the PCs an opportunity to make a cool new friend. Four, it makes them even more pissed at the hag. Five, there's "unfinished business" quests for the ghost ("Tell my mother what happened, adventurer. Tell her what your glory cost her.")

[Brookshw]

Again-why wouldn't she curse THE HAG. The one who has kept her prisoner! The one who's been torturing her!

I get that the players aren't being the best they can be right then, but that just makes no sense to me.

Why do you think the emotional vengeance of a child is logical? :smallconfused:

[Maelynn]

If you do decide to let the hag cast the curse, then there's your solution for making it difficult to remove said curse: only the original caster can undo the curse. They'll have to locate her and somehow persuade her to lift the curse.

Perhaps you can drop some hints that help the players in a) finding the hag and b) bringing something to the table she'll bargain for. What if the girl knows something, due to being held hostage for so long? There's a few ways you can go about that:

- after the hag departs, it turns out the girl wasn't yet fully dead - merely unconscious. She has just enough time left on this world to give the party some clues
- the girl is dead, but can be talked to if the party has someone who can cast Speak with Dead
- in the week after the event, one or some of the players might have their dreams interrupted by a visage of the girl, urging them to do x or to go y

[Nagog]

Perhaps the girl is still corrupted and curses the players for trying to kill her benefactor the hag? I agree that if the girl is not under the influence of the hag then the obvious target of the curse is the hag and not the PCs because the hag put the girl into this situation. The only reason I can see the girl cursing the players is if she is still under the hag's influence.

Also, why would the hag bargain at all if she has a 100% fail safe method of escaping? She would just use it before the characters get a chance to do anything at all. Would probably use it as soon as she finishes tormenting them and then watch from afar as her little puppet curses the characters before dying.

In my opinion, there should be a good reason why the hag does not want to use her method of escape except in the most dire circumstance and a good reason why she would be expected to keep her bargain with the players.

From a character perspective, there is no reason at all to trust that a monstrous creature like a hag would keep their word - so unless there is some way to assure this, the characters would probably believe the girl is dead no matter what choice they make so their best course of action would be to take out the hag so that they don't do the same to any other girls and try to save the girl, if possible, afterward.

Vengeance isn't the only reason to decide to eliminate the hag, especially in any situation in which you are doubtful that they will keep their promises.

For the bargaining, perhaps she's using it to stall while she prepares the escape spell? And for her keeping her word, perhaps some kind of Devil Contract that magically binds the signers to their word?