MiitD theory- A baby Tarrasque!

[Charles Phipps]

Yes, pretty much there's nothing to substantiate it but I like the idea that he's the most ridiculously powerful monster in D&D but just happens to be really small and young.

Let's face it...

* He's invulnerable to the Shoeless God of War.

* He's exotic and rare but recognizable.

* Kids love him (Kids love Godzilla)

* Xyrkon considers him worthwhile when all other minions are expendable, even undead dragons.

* The Tarrasque is neutral and MIITD isn't.

But of course, he can't be it because it's not D20 open source.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Because this theory has never, ever been suggested before.

Also, The Tarrasque is totally OGC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm).

[Regneva]

Well that makes.... how many identical topics Bill?

[Ancalagon]

* The Tarrasque is neutral and MIITD isn't.

I think it may be neutral. It seems, it does not care for anything. Neither good nor evil and that it eats babies has something to do with the fact that it just eats about anything. From all we have seen until now, there is no *strong* hint that would imply the MitD was evil. It may be evil but it also may not be evil.

Apart from that the Tarrasque-Theory (which has been stated before) is interesting since it would be a solution that "makes sense" to people who know D&D.

[Lord Zentei]

The Tarrasque has Int 3, while the MitD seems at least capable of conversing more or less coherently (despite the apparent ADD).

[Charles Phipps]

Uhhh, actually I never heard that theory before so your disdain for this topic is rather surprising to me.

[Lord Zentei]

Uhhh, actually I never heard that theory before so your disdain for this topic is rather surprising to me.

I for one wasn't being disdainful. I have, however, seen the baby Tarrasque idea previously. :smallwink:

The problem with it is mainly that the Tarrasque is a glorified beast become force of nature, while the MitD seems more like an actual character (albeit a very physically strong and mentally simple one).

[Kaelaroth]

I don't think our favourite friend with an umbrella is a baby Tarrasque. Although I have seen this argument before, and it does make sense at times, I feel he is to smart, slightly to benign, and no-where near hungry or sleepy enough. And even though I don't have my MM to hand, I beleive that Tarrasque preferred habitat is caves and temperate hills/plains, rather that MitD's jungle origins.

[Green Bean]

I thought the big thing with Tarrasques is that there's only supposed to be one. How would you get a baby anyways?

[Kaelaroth]

I thought the big thing with Tarrasques is that there's only supposed to be one. How would you get a baby anyways?

Ooooh, good point! However, it may be like Phoenixes, they die, then re-incarnate themselves in a new, prettier form.

[BRC]

The MiTD is a Plot Elemental, and therefore the most powerful thing in existence.

[....]

I thought Tarrasque couldn't talk?

[pendell]

Okay.

We know that the MITD

... originates in the jungle.
... is roughly human-sized.
... has extremely high damage reduction (Miko could not overcome it in their fight)
... hits like a freight train (in a 'who can hit the lightest' contest, hits Miko so far up into the air that she craters when she comes back down. Also makes a very light stomp that nearly causes an earthquake).
... does not cast spells or use spell-like abilities (not that we've seen, anyway)
... has a very low wisdom score (doesn't know that the OOTS and the paladin are enemies -- in contrast with Redcloak, who has high wis), has low Int, but can carry on a simple conversation. Appears to function roughly at the level of a four-year-old child; can speak complete sentences, but cannot perform basic reasoning (Xykon clones).

Put these facts together, and compare and contrast with D20 SRD. Unless it's a homebrew (which it could be), what matches the known facts?

A baby-tarrasque *might*. IIRC, an int of 3 would fit with what we've seen. Or perhaps it's been Awakened?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Alex12]

I thought the big thing with Tarrasques is that there's only supposed to be one. How would you get a baby anyways?

Actually, I think the big thing about Tarrasques is them.

[Ancalagon]

The MitD does not come from a jungle. This one came from there, but the hunters were surprised to find such a thing there. So... those things usually do not come from a jungel. But that has been discussed like n times before.

Apart from that... against the theory of baby-tarrasque speaks that a full grown beast of that size has what str? 35? 40? 45? Does not matter, even the full str of that is not even close to strong enough to cause an earthquake or to smash Miko so hard that she flies... a few miles.

[Deathwisher]

Okay.

We know that the MITD

... originates in the jungle.
... is roughly human-sized.
... has extremely high damage reduction (Miko could not overcome it in their fight)
... hits like a freight train (in a 'who can hit the lightest' contest, hits Miko so far up into the air that she craters when she comes back down. Also makes a very light stomp that nearly causes an earthquake).
... does not cast spells or use spell-like abilities (not that we've seen, anyway)
... has a very low wisdom score (doesn't know that the OOTS and the paladin are enemies -- in contrast with Redcloak, who has high wis), has low Int, but can carry on a simple conversation. Appears to function roughly at the level of a four-year-old child; can speak complete sentences, but cannot perform basic reasoning (Xykon clones).

Put these facts together, and compare and contrast with D20 SRD. Unless it's a homebrew (which it could be), what matches the known facts?

A baby-tarrasque *might*. IIRC, an int of 3 would fit with what we've seen. Or perhaps it's been Awakened?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Does not recognize a gate when it sees one (Dorukan's gate looked pretty much like a gate-archetype). While I know that is meant as a joke, it is difficult to explain, especially since it speaks fluent, so it is not a language problem. Nor is it a matter of eye-sight or memory, since it recognized the drawing of Dorukan, despite only having seen him once. Actually, it can be 'sort of' explained: The creature was captured in the jungle (no gates), then lived inside a circus (no gates) then lived underground in Dorukon's dungeon (first gate it has ever seen), but that is really stretching credibility.

Other points:

it has two eyes (does not really narrow things down, but still)

Has basic emotional responses (fear, anger, surprise) and a generally neutral, or even positive first response to strangers (It never attacks on sight).

Seems to have claws (drawing in SOD when it comes up on stage in the circus)

Was recognized on sight by a hobgoblin who got a good look

Seems to have been recognized by the anonymous hunters as well.

Was not recognized by either circus owners or public.

[Celisasu]

Plus Earthquake could be a supernatural ability rather than due to it's strength.

[dakiwiboid]

Uhhh, actually I never heard that theory before so your disdain for this topic is rather surprising to me.

A quick forum search found over 50 threads about the MiTD with the word "tarrasque" in them. Whether or not someone has suggested the Monster was still an infant, the tarrasque theory has been around the block so often its tires are losing their tread.

[Cutsleeve]

The MITD is a Gazebo. Fear the Gazebo.

[The Wanderer]

Plus Earthquake could be a supernatural ability rather than due to it's strength.

Doubtful, because all that the MITD had been instructed to do was stomp, and that was the sound effect provided. I doubt it could have involuntarily invoked a special ability by following the roach's suggestion.

Personally, I think the MITD is almost certainly a homebrew, but as something on the same level as a Tarrasque. It explains both Rich's determination to keep its nature secret, and the gradual building up of its power in our minds. (Also, something said here once that I rather liked was someone speculated about Xykon and co. getting to Kraagor's tomb and the MITD beating up on the Tarrasque, an image that would be highly amusing :smallbiggrin: ).

[Nerdanel]

I've been trying to find a template that could conceivably make a baby tarrasque into :mitd:

My guess:

It's a half-earth elemental awakened tarrasque.

Half-earth elemental increases strength and constitution and allows a slew of HD-dependant spell-like abilities, such as earthquake. This would mean :mitd: would have at least 13 HD, but I'm inclined more to 19+ HD, since I think it had to cast planeshift to get to the jungle in the first place.

:mitd: would need int or wis 8+ in order to use his spell-like abilities, according to the template. Perhaps this explains why he doesn't control or understand them and generally triggers them only by accident.

EDIT - Oh, and I forgot to mention that the half-earth elemental template also makes it immune to disease, which is handy with those moldy sandwiches.

EDIT2 - And I also forgot to mention that one possible sign of someone being half earth elemental is that their eyes may gleam like gemstones. Sound like anyone we know?

[Setra]

The MitD is V's four words.

Obviously.

[Deathwisher]

The MitD is V's four words.

Obviously.

Does that mean that when V says 'Monster in the Dark' at the right moment he'll get ultimate power? :smallbiggrin:

[Furin_Mirado]

I feel the need to point out that the hunters were shocked to find that the MitD spoke Common, so it's safe to assume that he's abnormally intelligent for his species. So if it was an awakened 'baby' Tarrasque it would still fit.

[DreadSpoon]

Doubtful, because all that the MITD had been instructed to do was stomp, and that was the sound effect provided. I doubt it could have involuntarily invoked a special ability by following the roach's suggestion.

D&D doesn't work that way. You could have 2000 STR, but the only way to cause an earthquake is through a special ability. It might not be supernatural - it could just be extraordinary, such an ability described as "due to the creature's high strength and sexy muscled legs," which would make sense in the situation.

That argument isn't really sound, though. I have a feeling the Miko flying through the wall thing was a purely joke regarding his high STR and not any kind of special ability. The entire sequence was pretty silly since Miko would beyond any doubt have died from that if it were done by the rules in any way. Realism arguments don't come into it either - a human flung that distance would surely die, and a horse flung that distance would literally *splat*. (More mass means more inertia upon impact means greater damage to the object in question.)

Despite the similarity to both arguments, I still feel the earthquake is more likely a supernatural or extraordinary ability and that the Miko blast was just a STR joke. That's more from the tone of both comics in question, though.

[GSFB]

MitD is Glorificus.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Yes, pretty much there's nothing to substantiate it but I like the idea that he's the most ridiculously powerful monster in D&D but just happens to be really small and young.

Let's face it...

* He's invulnerable to the Shoeless God of War.

* He's exotic and rare but recognizable.

* Kids love him (Kids love Godzilla)

* Xyrkon considers him worthwhile when all other minions are expendable, even undead dragons.

* The Tarrasque is neutral and MIITD isn't.

But of course, he can't be it because it's not D20 open source.

Indirectly, you've hit on my pet theory. (Highlighted for your convenience)

Godzilla has two younger relatives: Minya (son) and Godzuki (nephew). I'm personally convinced that the MitD is a resident of Monster Island. He fits the description pretty much to a "T"

Powerfully strong
Stomp attack that causes earthquakes
High DR
Kids love him (when I was 8, I loved the monsters, and just wanted the grown-ups to stop talking! Bring on the model stomping!)
Minya and Godzuki were both "child" monsters

Of course, I'm waiting for the inevitable:
"I think the MitD is part of the Snarl! Why hasn't anyone ever thought of that before? Hur, hur, hur..."

[Kaelaroth]

MitD is Glorificus.

He doesn't have the fashion sense... and probably doesn't like high heels.

[bluewind95]

I've always amused myself with the theory that the MitD is some really, REALLY common thing that you'd never expect to be so powerful. I especially like to think it's Mr. Scruffy's relative.

[Ecalsneerg]

It's Lord Tyrinar, infused with some template which made him very strong but very child-like :P

[JKLantern]

The MiTD is a Plot Elemental, and therefore the most powerful thing in existence.

Then our heroes are doomed.

[gooddragon1]

I personally think it's a half-giant.

The stomp ability
The high strength score for a small size
Low-Light vision

Of course I could be wrong but meh

[Indon]

Personally, I think the MitD isn't anything. The Giant will terminate the comic without ever revealing what it is because there is nothing to reveal.

Its' entire purpose is to incite forum discussion.

[Deathwisher]

Personally, I think the MitD isn't anything. The Giant will terminate the comic without ever revealing what it is because there is nothing to reveal.

Its' entire purpose is to incite forum discussion.

Except now that you've let out the secret, there is no longer a point in discussing it. Forum discussion on the subject will stop.:smallwink:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Except now that you've let out the secret, there is no longer a point in discussing it. Forum discussion on the subject will stop.:smallwink:

Can we use this for every other beaten to death topic, such as Belkar's true alignment, Miko's final alignment, V's gender, whether or not Sabine is a demon or devil, who Belkar causes the death of, or any other such topic? Oh joy! To hope, to dream!

[Lord Zentei]

Can we use this for every other beaten to death topic, such as Belkar's true alignment, Miko's final alignment, V's gender, whether or not Sabine is a demon or devil, who Belkar causes the death of, or any other such topic? Oh joy! To hope, to dream!

There will be discussions about all of these things even if the Giant comes right out and states the answer. :smallwink:


Actually, in the case of Belkar, he already did. Reminds me of the fact that there are apparently people who were arguing that Aayla Secura survived on Flos, because the clonetroopers kept firing. [Reference to Revenge of the Sith: Aayla Secura was the Twi'lek chick jedi knight...]

[Indon]

Except now that you've let out the secret, there is no longer a point in discussing it. Forum discussion on the subject will stop.:smallwink:

Nooooooo!

What a fool was I!

[Mc. Lovin']

How would you get a baby anyways?

When a mummy Tarrasque loves a daddy Tarrasque ... :smalltongue:

[Alex Warlorn]

Ironically, the idea of the MinTD being an awakened Baby Tarrasque makes a certain amount of sense.
He's shown no distance attacks another trademark of the great eating machine. Also, BECAUSE he's an eating machine suggests it. The fact Belkar failed his Knowledge Check on his tracks means very little given Belkar's awul Skill Rank buying.


OOPS!

I just realized the BIG BIG BIG flaw of this entire thing that I think nobody has realized yet!

The Tarrasque spends nearly all of it's time SLEEPING!!! Something we have only seen the MiTD do a few times at most.

[Alex12]

Ironically, the idea of the MinTD being an awakened Baby Tarrasque makes a certain amount of sense.
He's shown no distance attacks another trademark of the great eating machine. Also, BECAUSE he's an eating machine suggests it. The fact Belkar failed his Knowledge Check on his tracks means very little given Belkar's awul Skill Rank buying.


OOPS!

I just realized the BIG BIG BIG flaw of this entire thing that I think nobody has realized yet!

The Tarrasque spends nearly all of it's time SLEEPING!!! Something we have only seen the MiTD do a few times at most.

Well, duh, that's part of being AWAKENED! It's AWAKE!:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:






I'm kidding, of course. I don't think it's the big T.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

OOPS!

I just realized the BIG BIG BIG flaw of this entire thing that I think nobody has realized yet!

The Tarrasque spends nearly all of it's time SLEEPING!!! Something we have only seen the MiTD do a few times at most.

This is why I DON'T think the MitD is a Tarrasque. Nor Pun-Pun, nor a dragon of any sort, nor the Snarl, nor any of the other monsters regularly put out.

I have my own theory, a monster that's both very well known, but was never used in D&D, so I don't know if Rich would use him. Actually, it's a relative of a very well known monster.

Minya, son of Godzilla! Or Godzuki, nephew of Godzilla! :smallbiggrin: They are the only ones who fit ALL the known paramaters of the MitD.

On the other hand, those monsters are copyright Toho Corp, and Rich might not be allowed to use them. But there was a "one-off" module of the hunt for King Kong, so it's not totally out of the realm of possibility.

[Alex Warlorn]

This is why I DON'T think the MitD is a Tarrasque. Nor Pun-Pun, nor a dragon of any sort, nor the Snarl, nor any of the other monsters regularly put out.



BTW: Your signature, I know it's just a pun on her name, but do you think Miko would end up at the Beastlands? I.E. Furry's paradice?

[DragonTounge]

Its obviously not a unique monster or Xykon and Redcloak would not have recognized it. But it does make sense that its a young creature due to its tantrums and other childlike qualities. Still I think a Tarrasque is going a little over board even for OotS. Also, the Tarrasque stat-block says that the Tarrasque can't speak.

[Lord Zentei]

Its obviously not a unique monster or Xykon and Redcloak would not have recognized it. But it does make sense that its a young creature due to its tantrums and other childlike qualities. Still I think a Tarrasque is going a little over board even for OotS. Also, the Tarrasque stat-block says that the Tarrasque can't speak.

It could be a legendary unique creature, if said creature is sufficiently infamous. After all, if the Tarrasque is recognizable even if there is only one, the same could apply to other monsters.

A unique Abomination, perhaps (hence its great power)?

[dragongirl13]

The Monster in the Darkness is a disowned super-powerful demon child with Down syndrome. No offense to people with Down syndrome.

At least that's what I think.

[dragonseth]

The Monster in the Darkness is a disowned super-powerful demon child with Down syndrome. No offense to people with Down syndrome.

At least that's what I think.

Would a half-demon be able to have three of chromosome 21? How does infernal parentage affect genetics? My brain is breaking trying to mix science and magic.

[Fish]

You're using D&D meta-reasoning. Use humor meta-reasoning instead. :smallsmile:

Rich has built up the suspense for the Monster in the Darkness. Everyone eagerly anticipates its revelation.

Therefore, what is the most anti-climactic thing it could be? A creature made of darkness. :smallcool:

[MCerberus]

Maybe he has blind fight and a Su or Spell-like darkness ability. Thus we will never see him only the bodies he brings to the tea party.

[Vondre]

I stand by my previous theory: The MitD is not just in the Darkness. It is the darkness.

Why, you might ask, is such a creature so terrifying? Well, if we take normal darkness: the chances of being eaten by a grue are moderately high.

But pure, unadulterated, concentrated darkness that is so deep as to be sentient? The likelihood of grue devourings is actually more than one hundred percent.

And while I'm planting Epileptic Trees (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.EpilepticTrees), I might as well hypothesize that Roy's father is actually Miko, who was resurrected and traveled back in time, after which she had a belt of Masculinity/Femininity magically fused with her. Her sex irrevocably changed, she went about the process of changing her skin color, as well. Shortly afterward, (s)he was hit in the head by a brick, suffering amnesia about (her)his entire past life (and death).

It makes perfect sense!
*cough*

[Green Bean]

Therefore, what is the most anti-climactic thing it could be? A creature made of darkness. :smallcool:

It would be too easy to beat. All you'd need to do is cast Magic Missle at it.

[Mewtarthio]

Then it's a pair of floating, telekinetic orbs. As for the "stomp your feet" comment, he's been in the darkness so long that he forgot he didn't have feet.

[MCerberus]

It would be too easy to beat. All you'd need to do is cast Magic Missle at it.

ba-da-chink!

[dragonseth]

ba-da-chink!

I believe the proper response is: *rimshot*

[MCerberus]

I believe the proper response is: *rimshot*

Yes but that's not 10 characters long.

[dragonseth]

Yes but that's not 10 characters long.

Neither of them are...

[MCerberus]

If you include non-alphas ba-da-chink! is 11 characters and *rimshot* is 9.

[waffletaco]

It would be too easy to beat. All you'd need to do is cast Magic Missle at it.

That's the 4 magic words!!!
I cast Magic Missile!

[David Argall]

We know that the MITD

... has extremely high damage reduction (Miko could not overcome it in their fight)


A technical correction is that Miko could barely overcome it. [If she does 16 hp on an average hit, it had about DR15.] Belkar could not even get it to notice his attacks, but Miko tickled it.

[Feefers]

I suspect the MitD will remain in the darkness, like the suitcase in Pulp Fiction it's what ever you want it to be.

For Rich to actually reveal it will only be a disappointment for some people regardless of what it actually is.

[AKA_Bait]

I feel the need to point out that the hunters were shocked to find that the MitD spoke Common, so it's safe to assume that he's abnormally intelligent for his species. So if it was an awakened 'baby' Tarrasque it would still fit.

Hate to spoil the party but you cannot awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm)a Tarrasque (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm). The spell only applies to animals or plants and the Tarrasque is a Magical Beast.

If Rich decided to house rule it sure but at that point I think a homebrew creation is more likley.

[Khatoblepas]

Hate to spoil the party but you cannot awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm)a Tarrasque (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm). The spell only applies to animals or plants and the Tarrasque is a Magical Beast.

Heir of Siberys + Rod of Wild Dominion. Yes you can. :) Only in Ebberon and campaign settings that steal crunch from Ebberon. It's cheesy, but it's not impossible.

[Nerdanel]

I've been trying to find a way to start with a baby tarrasque and template-stack it until it becomes :mitd:. You don't really need awaken, but only something that slightly increases intelligence so that further templates can be stacked on it.

Spoilerish improvements on my previous speculative spoilers, this time not written late at night:

My current vision is that :mitd: is a Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon Tarrasque.

Changes to the normal tarrasque:

Natural armor +7
Str +12
Dex -2
Con +6
Int +2
Cha +2
Level +6
CR +5

It also has a bunch of spell-like abilities (such as earthquake) that it's too dumb to use on purpose (needs 8+ int or wis - a wisdom-draining template I haven't found?), darkvision, better claw damage, immunity to sleep, paralysis, and earth-effects (and disease, but that comes with normal tarrasque), and an unknown breath weapon 1/day that comes with its associated immunity/ability.

As a flavor come eyes that shine like gemstones and some draconic features.

The half-dragon template is there because I needed something to up the intelligence for the half-earth elemental, and the flavor of half-dragon seemed to fit better than monster of legend or anything else I could find, and besides doesn't increase wisdom, which should be as low as we can make it. If :mitd: is only medium due to being a baby, the problem with half-dragon wingedness doesn't come up. I figure the baby thing can explain the low wisdom too.

[SoD]

Sorry if this comment was already made, but has anyone noticed the spelling of 'MiitD' in the thread name? Monster in in the Darkness? In in?

[dragonseth]

I had not noticed the spelling. Huh. Anyway, have you looked at either the Feral template or the Mineral Warrior template? Both are VERY powerful for only +1 LA, by the way. I sicked a Feral Mineral Warrior Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale on my party. No class levels, just the 3 HD from whale and the two templates. It would have completely smashed them had I not been nice.

[why123]

I for one wasn't being disdainful. I have, however, seen the baby Tarrasque idea previously.

[Nerdanel]

:mitd: might be feral, particularly considering that (SoD spoilers) it lived all alone in the jungle at one point. It's hard to say, though, particularly as the power of Google hasn't revealed me the exact template. It appears to increase wis though, which doesn't fit so well for Mr. Gate? What gate?.

Anyway, I've tried to stick to known abilities in determining :mitd:'s templates. In particular, the apparent earthquake ability is very distinctive. The template in question can't be applied on a vanilla tarrasque due to intelligence limitations, however, and so...