Anti-PC spell(s)

[Yenner]

Hello there, I've been reading this forum for quite some time and I found a lot of interesting things and suggestions.
I know some of you out there are not gonna like my question, if so please ignore it.
So, in the campaign I play with my friends there is a troublesome player, long story short the DM wants to kill her PC without kicking out the player. I've received the 'honor' to do it because that PC constantly harassed mine for almost a year (e.g. one time she also caused the death of my PC and sold all his items after looting him).
The advice is which spells/spell combo to use for this task, I've been thinking about "Explosive Runes x N-> Dispel Magic" but that sound a bit too risky to me.
My PC is a human sorceress mailman, her PC is a high-dex explorer/ranger catfolk, both are level 11.
Also since the DM said he will not help me in any way I need this to be 100% sure to pull off or else my PC will die just after the surprise attack/ambus/celerity+X/whatever.
Thanks for your reply.

[Crake]

I mean, if you're a mailman sorcerer, you should be able to pump out enough damage hitting touch AC to kill the other PC in a single spell, right? Otherwise you're not really a mailman... If you're looking to avoid the case of accidentally rolling a 1, get yourself a scroll of surge of fortune beforehand, pretend you're buffing yourself or something, then once it's successfully UMDed (it's a cleric spell) discharge it for an automatic 20 on your attack roll, and roll to confirm your crit. Extra props if you can squeeze in a true strike beforehand, basically guaranteeing you a crit. That said, you haven't given us a level range, an optimization level, so I can't really give you much help beyond that without knowing any specifics.

Optimization advice aside though, this is just going to cause animosity. If you don't want to boot the player, then you need to fix the issue, not create a wound that will fester over time. All you're doing is sowing toxicity into your gaming group with this plan. If she's a problem maker, sort it out, if you can't sort it out, then remove her. This isn't a solution, in fact it's the opposite, because it will just make her resentful and less cooperative.

[Yenner]

I mean, if you're a mailman sorcerer, you should be able to pump out enough damage hitting touch AC to kill the other PC in a single spell, right? Otherwise you're not really a mailman... If you're looking to avoid the case of accidentally rolling a 1, get yourself a scroll of surge of fortune beforehand, pretend you're buffing yourself or something, then once it's successfully UMDed (it's a cleric spell) discharge it for an automatic 20 on your attack roll, and roll to confirm your crit. Extra props if you can squeeze in a true strike beforehand, basically guaranteeing you a crit. That said, you haven't given us a level range, an optimization level, so I can't really give you much help beyond that without knowing any specifics.

Optimization advice aside though, this is just going to cause animosity. If you don't want to boot the player, then you need to fix the issue, not create a wound that will fester over time. All you're doing is sowing toxicity into your gaming group with this plan. If she's a problem maker, sort it out, if you can't sort it out, then remove her. This isn't a solution, in fact it's the opposite, because it will just make her resentful and less cooperative.

As I said earlier both are level 11, but in the past the DM went overboard to give 'fighters' a lot of items to make them more useful and so they really are optimized. This PC has like 30s AC even on touch, 130s hp, and every round does 11-18d6 of damage most of which are force (artifact bow and magic arrow). I would say that optimization is very high for her PC who has high stats, powerful weapons and some maneuvers, medium for my PC because she hasn't awesome stuff, just the spells. As I said even if the DM was the one to ask me to do it he won't help me with the rules and he often houserule things to make the 'fighters' happy, e.g. one time he made the arrows of this PC pierce trouhgh a force wall. Again I know it's not a nice thing to do, but he asked me and I have very good reason to comply even if I have no ill will towards the player oog.

[Yenner]

Also spells for some strange rules interpretation of the DM can't crit

[Yenner]

Also surge of fortune is good but it may not work from scroll if the UMD doesn't go well, the only way to make it sure is skillful moment, a little lv1 spell from some dragon magazine.
So the problem remain the same, doing 140-150 damage in one turn at level 11 with spells. I was thinking even double ocular combust, tagged with a truestrike after a celerity cast in the turn before. But this has some problems because the truestrike as my dm stated before has effect on only one of the combust, so 80-90 damage with the risk of being discovered.

[MisterKaws]

Show him the Complete Arcane page for weaponlike spells, which explicitly mention them critting.

As to spells, first of all, get a Glyph Seal. It's reusable and it's basically a cheap at-will Glyph of Warding. With it you can cast any save-or-die X N instead of just stacking damage.

Or you could find any number of ways of setting an Antimagic Field away from you and at the player's position. Instant duration Conjuration(Creation) spells are nonmagical after the casting is over, which means Orb spells can go through AMFs and kill people inside. And inside there the player doesn't have any of that magical junk.

[Yenner]

Show him the Complete Arcane page for weaponlike spells, which explicitly mention them critting.

As to spells, first of all, get a Glyph Seal. It's reusable and it's basically a cheap at-will Glyph of Warding. With it you can cast any save-or-die X N instead of just stacking damage.

Or you could find any number of ways of setting an Antimagic Field away from you and at the player's position. Instant duration Conjuration(Creation) spells are nonmagical after the casting is over, which means Orb spells can go through AMFs and kill people inside. And inside there the player doesn't have any of that magical junk.

I did that but he houseruled that it's not possible because casters are just enough powerful without criticals.
The glyph tactic seems nice, should I cast some will based spell into it? I must say that the ranger has very good saves and is very lucky with dices, but I get your point, it has to be a lot of save or suck/die.
The DM also houseruled against that use of the orb spells, that's the reason why I never considered an AMF.

[MisterKaws]

I did that but he houseruled that it's not possible because casters are just enough powerful without criticals.
The glyph tactic seems nice, should I cast some will based spell into it? I must say that the ranger has very good saves and is very lucky with dices, but I get your point, it has to be a lot of save or suck/die.
The DM also houseruled against that use of the orb spells, that's the reason why I never considered an AMF.

Shame. Is the Ranger weaker on Fort, then? Target the weakest save, and throw enough spells for a basically forced 1 roll. You should also look into some enchantments to reduce saves, maybe even force her to Polymorph into a Turtle? Then you could just Coup de Grace with literally no effort.

[Falontani]

long lasting AOE cloud spell with no ref save (cloudkill/acid fog) + resilient sphere or walls. Throw a solid fog around everything so that projectiles can't move (The vapors prevent effective ranged weapon attacks (except for magic rays and the like)). Soooo block LoS, block LoE, box her in, and let her melt. Invisibility (or something better) and watch, have your ocular combust ready at the end.


Another option: she good? quiver of unholy arrows. she evil? quiver of holy arrows. She lawful? quiver of anarchic arrows. She chaotic? quiver of axiomatic arrows. she true neutral? this route won't work very well. Best part is when she raises as a wight 24 hours later she can no longer be resurrected as long as the wight lives, and even after it's killed requires resurrection or true res to revive.

Finally, Trap the Soul. No literally its that simple. It will be expensive, but here you go:
Trigger Object
The second method is far more insidious, for it tricks the subject into accepting a trigger object inscribed with the final spell word, automatically placing the creature’s soul in the trap. To use this method, both the creature’s name and the trigger word must be inscribed on the trigger object when the gem is enspelled. A sympathy spell can also be placed on the trigger object. As soon as the subject picks up or accepts the trigger object, its life force is automatically transferred to the gem without the benefit of spell resistance or a save. She a rogue? what rogue don't like gems. Problem is, you just used up a gem worth 11,000 GP and a scroll worth 3,000 GP. However you can instead get a separate spellcaster to do it for 15,000 GP and there is no risk of failure, all it takes is getting the gem into her hand. It's literally as simple as putting it in her bag, telling the DM you did it, and her pulling the gem out. At which point you have a gem with her soul. Destroying the gem releases her, but short of that you can sell the soul gem to a balor to give her endless torture. Sell it to a decently powerful devil and you'll get yourself a wish. Keep it for a rainy day if you have to. Worst part is, her character isn't dead, so she can't get rid of the sheet, she just has to hold onto it, knowing that at any point you could release her, perhaps when your a higher level and can permanently get rid of her via soul destructing or unaming.

[Elysiume]

Is the expectation that she quits the group of her own volition after her character is killed?

[Remuko]

From all these replies from OP it sounds like it will be hard for anyone to help you much. The DM has so many houserules in place...plus if the DM made the problem, they should fix it instead of getting a player who may hold no ill will, like you say you dont, against this other player. It will just make the problem player dislike you on top of whatever problems already exist. This literally can only make things worse and without a list of basically every houserule you DM has made for your game its gonna be hard for anyone here to help.

[denthor]

There is a thing called asking.

Ask him to except a buff spell. He will not get a save cast a strength loss spell . 1st level ray of enfeeblement. 1d6+5 at your level. Minimum 6 strength points gone. Then calculate weight see if he is still moving. Initiative roll next hope you win. Next spell. Move 30 feet.

Even as an archer the negative stacks can not use strength bows. 1d8-3 plus magic is not great.

[MisterKaws]

To be really honest, a DM should just send a Living Disjunction+Blasphemy and kill the damn player. You prolly have some OoC problems that don't allow you to remove the player, but in my opinion, it's better to just end it all at once if the player can't be talked OoC. Just kill them mercilessly. I can come with twenty or so ultra-low CR TPK monsters just by abusing Lycanthrope/Etomanothrope, and you don't even need to do that. Just open the MMII and look at the CR-appropriate creatures for you. Half the time they'll be easy as hell. The other time someone is dying.

[Yenner]

Thanks to all, and I must say you're right, his plan is a little stupid to begin with. I don't know if I will do it in the end, I'm not so sure, and even if I'm not friend with the player (or at least not so much as the DM is) killing a PC is a nasty thing to do.
However if some others have the time to spare and share some interesting other spells/combo it would be great, just for char building/tinkering.
Thank you.

[Yenner]

Is the expectation that she quits the group of her own volition after her character is killed?

Maybe, the DM will do it, but then again I'm not so sure I will do it so I don't know.

[Caedes]

Maybe, the DM will do it, but then again I'm not so sure I will do it so I don't know.


Honestly, the best advice I can think of is. Just don't. The DM has a lot of house rules. Has buffed the martial and probably been essential in the player "getting out of hand".

Them inserting you into the middle of the conflict is just going to cause tears and sadness.

[Mr Adventurer]

Honestly, the best advice I can think of is. Just don't. The DM has a lot of house rules. Has buffed the martial and probably been essential in the player "getting out of hand".

Them inserting you into the middle of the conflict is just going to cause tears and sadness.

It's also a **** move by the DM. "I allowed and helped this to happen, I want you to solve it using only my own bad method."

[RNightstalker]

I have to agree with the running theme of responses in this thread. This isn't your affair.
A couple of questions though:
-Is the player troublesome because of inter-party conflict or OoC stuff?
-Why does the DM want to off the character and retain the player?
-You need to take up in-game issues with a PC in-game. How you're going to pull off bringing up an issue from a dead PC will be difficult but is possible if done right.

It's the DM's responsibility to be anti-PC, not a "fellow" PC.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

There are two hard counters to this archer. Forceward (SpC) stops arrows of force (assuming that's what she's firing; at the very least the force damage should be blocked and you can DR most of the rest with e.g. Stoneskin), and Friendly Fire (EoE) redirects all ranged attacks - note that an empty square 20' away from you is a valid target.

With those you should have more than one round to deal with her; just make sure she doesn't flee, and have multiple castings/scrolls ready in case she does.

Or, y'know, don't do it, but you wanted the ammunition in case you did.

[StevenC21]

It's really too bad that you're a sorcerer and not a Wizard.

What metamagic feats to you have? Would your DM let you retrain one?

[Jay R]

Don't do somebody else's dirty work for them.

If you agree with the DM, then don't do it because you "received the 'honor' to do it"; do it because you believe in it.

But if you don't feel comfortable about it, don't let the DM force you to do something you disapprove of.

Trying to fix a troublesome player by attacking her PC bothers me.
Colluding with the DM to kill another player's character bothers me.

I suggest that you recommend that the DM, or the players, talk to the player openly and honestly about the problem. That's what I would do.

But don't do somebody else's dirty work for them.

[Psyren]

I know some of you out there are not gonna like my question, if so please ignore it.

Not quite how it works; if we think you're going about things in fundamentally the wrong way we're allowed to say so.



Optimization advice aside though, this is just going to cause animosity. If you don't want to boot the player, then you need to fix the issue, not create a wound that will fester over time. All you're doing is sowing toxicity into your gaming group with this plan. If she's a problem maker, sort it out, if you can't sort it out, then remove her. This isn't a solution, in fact it's the opposite, because it will just make her resentful and less cooperative.


From all these replies from OP it sounds like it will be hard for anyone to help you much. The DM has so many houserules in place...plus if the DM made the problem, they should fix it instead of getting a player who may hold no ill will, like you say you dont, against this other player. It will just make the problem player dislike you on top of whatever problems already exist. This literally can only make things worse and without a list of basically every houserule you DM has made for your game its gonna be hard for anyone here to help.

What they and others have said, this whole thing is a bad idea. Creating a problem character with bad houserules, sending another character to kill off the problem character, doing any of this without having an adult conversation with the problem player in question, all of it. Instead of going along with this half-baked idea, refuse to do anything in-game and make them talk to one another.

[icefractal]

You sure the DM isn't trying to get rid of you? Or at least your character.
"Hey, you should try to kill off this other character that I've buffed the hell out of with custom items and houserules. But entirely IC, I'm not going to influence it at all. And I was previously fine with them killing you and taking your stuff."

Maybe this is a campaign where PvP is accepted and encouraged, and so the other player wouldn't be upset - I don't have enough info to judge. If not, definitely don't do it - you'll be the one looking like a jerk to solve a problem that the DM created.

Even if it is - do you actually want to kill the other character, IC? Because it sounds like a risky move - worth it if it's really your goal, not so much otherwise.