Ouch!

[Dimers]

I just noticed the 1st-level Ghostwalk spell "Painless Death". It kills a willing creature, no save, no SR, no attack roll needed ...

Unconscious creatures are always treated as willing.

What other spells punch way above their weight if cast on a sleeping target?

[Khedrac]

Unconscious creatures are always treated as willing.
A common belief, but not actully true - they count as "willing" for "harmless" spells, without that tag they are not willing.

Edit: Seems I was wrong, thank-you for the corrections folks.

[Dimers]

I just checked my PHB and the SRD, and both disagree with you, sir.

[Elysiume]

Here's the relevant passage:

Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re flat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing. I don't see any provision that restricts it to only harmless spells.

[ShurikVch]

I just noticed the 1st-level Ghostwalk spell "Painless Death". It kills a willing creature, no save, no SR, no attack roll needed ...

Unconscious creatures are always treated as willing.Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't fact the target is unconscious mean you're already won - regardless of killing?

[MisterKaws]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't fact the target is unconscious mean you're already won - regardless of killing?

Sleeping is also unconscious, so you could be starting the fight. I mean, you'd be able to Coup de Grace at least once, but there's still a 5% chance to survive that way.

[Venger]

I just noticed the 1st-level Ghostwalk spell "Painless Death". It kills a willing creature, no save, no SR, no attack roll needed ...

Unconscious creatures are always treated as willing.

What other spells punch way above their weight if cast on a sleeping target?

You could also just cdg them with a mundane weapon, no spells required.

[ShurikVch]

Sleeping is also unconscious, so you could be starting the fight.It's incorrect: not just sleeping creatures aren't unconscious, but unconscious creatures are, in fact, immune to Sleep spell

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, it's not against an unconscious creature (or a creature at all, really), but the 2nd level spell rockburst is capable of Blowing. Up. Planets.


You cause a stone object, with volume of at least 8 cubic feet, to explode.

And since it's not a magical object, the planet gets no defenses against it.

[TheYell]

Well, it's not against an unconscious creature (or a creature at all, really), but the 2nd level spell rockburst is capable of Blowing. Up. Planets.

I grok it.

[Boci]

You could also just cdg them with a mundane weapon, no spells required.

CDG is a fullround action, I assume this spell is standard as most are, and also a CTG from a spellcaster may not neccissarily kill an enemy (hello strength 8 wizard with a dagger), especially if its a mundane weapon and creature has DR.

[Venger]

CDG is a fullround action, I assume this spell is standard as most are, and also a CTG from a spellcaster may not neccissarily kill an enemy (hello strength 8 wizard with a dagger), especially if its a mundane weapon and creature has DR.

It is a standard. Even if he makes his dc 18ish fort save, you can just do it again. if the opponent is unconscious, time isn't a factor.

[MisterKaws]

CDG is a fullround action, I assume this spell is standard as most are, and also a CTG from a spellcaster may not neccissarily kill an enemy (hello strength 8 wizard with a dagger), especially if its a mundane weapon and creature has DR.

Fire Orbs can crit, just sayin'.

[Boci]

It is a standard. Even if he makes his dc 18ish fort save, you can just do it again. if the opponent is unconscious, time isn't a factor.

If time isn't a factor you don't even need to CDG then. You can just stab them, or put their head in a deep bowl of water for style points.

[Venger]

Fire Orbs can crit, just sayin'.
While weaponlike spells can crit, unless you're a spellwarp sniper, you aren't allowed to cdg with a weaponlike spell.


If time isn't a factor you don't even need to CDG then. You can just stab them, or put their head in a deep bowl of water for style points.

fair enough. either way, using painless death offers no real utility over using a normal weapon

[Boci]

fair enough. either way, using painless death offers no real utility over using a normal weapon

Not really, you presumed the unconciousness is going to last, but there are short duration unconcious effects, and DR which the wizard may not be able to overcome, or regeneration. Its certainly situational, but it is stylish and does have some utility, enough so that you cannot call it "no real utility". Colourspray if a very popular spell and it doesn't make a creature unconcious for long. Plus if its a touch spell, you can make it reach with metamagic or other effects.

[Kish]

This is a "stupid RAW" entry. File it under "unconscious creatures being treated as willing is something they clearly didn't think through," example #646.

[MisterKaws]

While weaponlike spells can crit, unless you're a spellwarp sniper, you aren't allowed to cdg with a weaponlike spell.

A shame.

Though you still could with Lightning Blade or Thunderlance, even if the most effective former one is a Wu-Jen exclusive.

[Falontani]

Friend found this a while back. He slaughtered with this.

IDR his whole build but:

(and he has a thing for drow)
Savage Drow Cleric (spontaneous domain casting variant)
Sloth Domain and Artifice Domain
Feats were something like: Reach Spell, Divine Metamagic: Reach Spell, Poison Spell, Lolth's Caress

Would throw Reach Poison Deep Slumbers with Drow Sleep Poison, if they saved twice he'd lolth's caress for another save, if they failed then he would throw out the reach painless death.

I'll send this thread over to him and see if he still has the character's build.

[SirNibbles]

Well, it's not against an unconscious creature (or a creature at all, really), but the 2nd level spell rockburst is capable of Blowing. Up. Planets.



And since it's not a magical object, the planet gets no defenses against it.

Range should limit it from affecting the entire earth. I'll scour the rules to see if it works at all if the object is partially outside the range of the spell.

[tterreb]

Friend found this a while back. He slaughtered with this.

IDR his whole build but:

(and he has a thing for drow)
Savage Drow Cleric (spontaneous domain casting variant)
Sloth Domain and Artifice Domain
Feats were something like: Reach Spell, Divine Metamagic: Reach Spell, Poison Spell, Lolth's Caress

Would throw Reach Poison Deep Slumbers with Drow Sleep Poison, if they saved twice he'd lolth's caress for another save, if they failed then he would throw out the reach painless death.

I'll send this thread over to him and see if he still has the character's build.

I can't seem to find it in my random builds folder, but those were the basics.

[Crichton]

Well, it's not against an unconscious creature (or a creature at all, really), but the 2nd level spell rockburst is capable of Blowing. Up. Planets.


Range should limit it from affecting the entire earth. I'll scour the rules to see if it works at all if the object is partially outside the range of the spell.

Indeed this:



If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range)


It would only affect a 20ft radius of rock, somewhere within Medium Range

[unseenmage]

...

It would only affect a 20ft radius of rock, somewhere within Medium Range
Additionally aren't larger objects affected in 10' cubes? Rule is in SBG iirc.

[MisterKaws]

Additionally aren't larger objects affected in 10' cubes? Rule is in SBG iirc.

DMG too, it lists stone in 10' cubes cause that's the standard assumption for dividing large blocks of stone.

[Crichton]

Additionally aren't larger objects affected in 10' cubes? Rule is in SBG iirc.

Quite possible. Doesn't change, however, that any area outside Medium Range(100ft+10ft/level) becomes unaffected by the spell, no matter how big the Area entry of the spell is.

[ShurikVch]

Friend found this a while back. He slaughtered with this.

IDR his whole build but:

(and he has a thing for drow)
Savage Drow Cleric (spontaneous domain casting variant)
Sloth Domain and Artifice Domain
Feats were something like: Reach Spell, Divine Metamagic: Reach Spell, Poison Spell, Lolth's Caress

Would throw Reach Poison Deep Slumbers with Drow Sleep Poison, if they saved twice he'd lolth's caress for another save, if they failed then he would throw out the reach painless death.

I'll send this thread over to him and see if he still has the character's build.Victim of Deep Slumber isn't legal target for Painless Death, since sleeping creatures aren't, actually, unconscious
Drow Poison, on the other hand, is completely OK, since it explicitly causing unconsciousness (it don't even called "Drow Sleep Poison" anymore)