Multiclassing a base class/variant class

[ByOdin'sBeard]

Arguing with a player, and I cannot find the excerpt anywhere right now, but I am 100% sure that you are able to multiclass as a base class, and as their variant class, for example:

A ECL 10: Fighter 5/Sneak Attack Fighter 5.

Doss anyone remember where this is, or know if you're able?

[Andezzar]

It is not that simple:

Multiclassing And Variant Classes

Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).

In any case, only the first version of a favored class is treated as favored; a halfling rogue/wizard who later begins gaining levels in the wilderness rogue variant class can't treat both the rogue and wilderness rogue classes as favored, only the class gained first (in this case, rogue). Under no circumstances does spellcasting ability from multiple classes (even variants of the same class) stack. A character with levels of bard and levels of bardic sage has two separate caster levels and two separate sets of spells per day, even though the classes are very similar.

[Khedrac]

Looking at the variants part of the SRD:

With your DM's permission, you can use any one of these variant classes in place of the standard class of the same name.
The words "in place of" mean you cannot take both a class variant and the original class. Reading on it discusses how some characters may have one variant and others the oroginal class, or all may hva e a variant (at the DM's discretion) but nowhere does it suggest that you can have both a class and it's variant.

So, since one cannot multi-class a class with itself (so you cannot be a ranger 2/ranger 2 to get both fighting styles) you cannot multi-class a class with its variant.

[ByOdin'sBeard]

It is not that simple:

But ignoring multiclassing penalties, like everyone in the history of ever, as long as you're not going totem barbarian or something like that that completely changes the character, it's pretty straight forward.

[ByOdin'sBeard]

Looking at the variants part of the SRD:

The words "in place of" mean you cannot take both a class variant and the original class. Reading on it discusses how some characters may have one variant and others the oroginal class, or all may hva e a variant (at the DM's discretion) but nowhere does it suggest that you can have both a class and it's variant.

So, since one cannot multi-class a class with itself (so you cannot be a ranger 2/ranger 2 to get both fighting styles) you cannot multi-class a class with its variant.

I was looking for the quoted paragraph above your comment. It says you're able to multiclass into the variants, just that it's a bit tricky if they overlap, and provide drastically different things.

[MisterKaws]

such as the bardic sage

Quietly looks at Fochlucan Lyrist.

[ByOdin'sBeard]

Quietly looks at Fochlucan Lyrist.

Terrifying

[DEMON]

Quietly looks at Fochlucan Lyrist.

What am I missing?

[MisterKaws]

What am I missing?

Bardic Sage 2/Divine Bard 2/Druid 1/Some Bard PrC 5/Fochlucan Lyrist 10.

Though to be fair at that point you might as well just discard Divine Bard, or cheese yourself into getting Speak Language(Druidic) without Druid.

[ThanatosZero]

The most reasonable is to make multiclassing into variants of the same base class to work as they were substitution levels. One class feature of the vanilla base class needs traded with the other feature gained from the substitution level.

One could say, that variant classes are made of sustitution levels.

[AnimeTheCat]

Why not just take rogue though? It's just better.

[MisterKaws]

Why not just take rogue though? It's just better.

Fighter would get extra attacks quicker, and there's a couple shenanigans you can do to flank a target by yourself.

[ByOdin'sBeard]

Why not just take rogue though? It's just better.

Better hit die allows for a full BAB progression, all he is going to do is stab things for damage, with sneak attack, and the fighter feats from the base fighter will take archery feats and go scout levels.

Throw some blink on that and you're sneak attacking everything within 60'.

[HouseRules]

It makes me think of Gestalt all the variant class of tier 4, tier 5, and tier 6 base classes.

Gestalt Fighter and all Fighter Variants.
Gestalt Rogues and all Rogue Variants.
etc.

Then on the other hand, we split the magic classes into specializations.
A specialization loses all specialization bonuses, and access to generalist abilities.
A specialize wizard is instead limited to their school of specialization, and has no specialization bonus.
Similar changes made to other casters when possible. For divine casters, they are limited to two domains.

Then, we have different games.

Tier 6 Game: All Tier 6 Base Classes Gestalt with their Variants.

Commoner
Warrior
Samurai
any others ?

Tier 5 Game: All Tier 5 Base Classes Gestalt with their Variants; All Tier 6 Base Classes Gestalt with their Variants.

Tier 4 Game: All Tier 4 Base Classes Gestalt with their Variants; All Tier 5 Base Classes Gestalt with their Variants; All Tier 6 Base Classes Gestalt with their Variants.

[Venger]

Bardic Sage 2/Divine Bard 2/Druid 1/Some Bard PrC 5/Fochlucan Lyrist 10.

Though to be fair at that point you might as well just discard Divine Bard, or cheese yourself into getting Speak Language(Druidic) without Druid.

Just buy it. Bard has it as a class skill. My go-to is saying I learned it from a blighter. They all know druidic, and won't have a problem teaching it to you since they've already fallen.

[MisterKaws]

Just buy it. Bard has it as a class skill. My go-to is saying I learned it from a blighter. They all know druidic, and won't have a problem teaching it to you since they've already fallen.

Yeah but a DM might ask you to get it in-game or outright restrict access to it.

[Venger]

Yeah but a DM might ask you to get it in-game or outright restrict access to it.

use bardic knowledge to find someone who's a blighter and ask him nicely. he'll probably give you a quest or you can just pay him some money or offer to do his laundry. if he restricts access, then you wouldn't have been able to get it anyway, so you're no worse off

[Rebel7284]

Based on my previous research on the Druidic language topic,
- Hellbred retain all languages spoken in their past life
- Planescape has a race, Shad, that gets Druidic as a bonus language

[Andezzar]

What's this obsession with the Druidic language? Sure, not many people speak it, but the same goes for half a dozen other obscure languages.

[Venger]

What's this obsession with the Druidic language? Sure, not many people speak it, but the same goes for half a dozen other obscure languages.

speaking druidic is a prerequisite for fochlucan lyrist, which MisterKaws alluded to entering as a divine bard/bardic sage. I reminded him that if he's already got divine spellcasting to progress through divine bard, he doesn't strictly need to burn a level in druid to obtain druidic.

since druids can fall for teaching a non-druid druidic, that means you can learn it without any levels in druid