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Bjarkmundur
2019-07-01, 10:28 AM
I want to offer my players to choose a lifestyle every four sessions, and have it affect the story and gameplay for the upcoming month. Each player will pick a lifestyle and prepay the month. I'm going to be referencing their choice frequently, to help the players feel like a living part of the world. We usually don't use backgrounds btw, so lifestyles should fill that void, but in a different way since we can change lifestyles between sessions.

I was wondering if I could find a way to have lifestyles affect all three pillars of game-play. Lifestyles already affect social encounters, since your status dictates how people react to you. A rich merchant will not readily give out favors to someone wearing rags, for example. Right now I'm toying with "permanent exhaustion" for the lifestyles my players are never gonna have to endure, mostly to give them a sense of what it means having no money. This will also affect how good hired NPCs are. Higher pay for mercenaries means less exhaustion.

Can we add some mechanics for combat and/or explorations, to integrate lifestyles better into the game. Maybe something similar to the background features. What effects can you think of?

Do you think I'd need more lifestyles to better represent the different social classes? Maybe have sub-lifestyles based on what kind of life they lead between adventuring. We are going to be adventuring out of a central hub / city, and might have long-ish downtime between sessions. Because of this I encourage my player to have a life outside adventuring.


Wretched - 0gp per Month

Meals per day: 0
Shelter: None
Status: Beggar
Exhaustion: 3

Squalid - 3gp per month

Meals per day: 1
Shelter: Poor
Status: Unpaid/volunteer
Exhaustion: 2

Poor - 6gp per month

Meals per day: 2
Shelter: Below Average
Status: Laborer
Exhaustion: 1

Modest - 30gp per month

Meals per day: 3
Shelter: Average
Status: Middle-Class

Comfortable - 60gp per month

Shelter: Good
Status: Contributing member of society, overseer or employer
Servants: Frequent user of services, staff, but no personal servants.

Wealthy - 120gp per month

Status: Influential member of society
Servant: One unskilled personal servant

I'm thinking more about features that allow you to do special stuff, or gain access to stuff others don't have, rather than just a mechanical bonus like "You regain one extra hit dice during a long rest" etc.
Can I maybe steal some from the background features?

Zhorn
2019-07-01, 11:04 AM
I'm not sure how to involve the lifestyle into active play as of yet, but recently I did tie it in to downtime for my players.

Conclusion of the last adventure I gave everyone 30 downtime days and told them all to email me their lifestyle choice and the activities they were pursuing (crafting, training skills, languages, attending auctions, carousing, etc).

I then paired the lifestyle choices with an amalgamation of the outcomes tables in Xanathar's based on what activities they were pursuing. Mostly it was just a copy past of all the positive benefits into one tables, and all the consequences in another, and roll on each a number of times depending on their lifestyle.



Lifestyle
Cost per day
Outcomes


Wretched
-
3 Consequences


Squalid
1 sp
1 Benefit, 3 Consequence


Poor
2 sp
1 Benefit, 2 Consequence


Modest
1 gp
1 Benefit, 1 Consequence


Comfortable
2 gp
2 Benefits, 1 Consequence


Wealthy
4 gp
3 Benefits, 1 Consequence


Aristocratic
10 gp
3 Benefits



In time I'll make a set of customised tables for the activities, but for now I play a little loose with the results in Xanathars to make it fit the activity they were doing.
Example:
For someone learning Alchemy/Herbalism, rolling a "You learn two pieces of lore" I change into giving them a couple of potion recipes, or for the person attending a magic item auction I'll add a few more treasure table rolls for items they have the opportunity to buy.
For a person learning a language (say dwarvish), "You ear one favour" is their trainer giving them a crest that can be used with a dwarf clan to gain a friendly reception, or pardon a minor offence.

Not a precise system, but most of a DM's job is improvising on the fly :smallwink:

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-01, 11:08 AM
I paired the lifestyle choices with an amalgamation of the outcomes tables in Xanathar's based on what activities they were pursuing. Mostly it was just a copy past of all the positive benefits into one tables, and all the consequences in another, and roll on each a number of times depending on their lifestyle.

That's genius. I'm away from book, so I have no idea what this system looks like, but the idea is pretty dang good.

Just so I get it right, you ask them how much they want to invest in their downtime, and what direction they want to take (based on the options in Xanathar), and from that you extrapolate what happens during those 30 days?

I could probably do something similar, but of course designed for my needs and purposes.

I just got the idea of them having a pseudo-profession when not adventuring. This might mean that we only 'check up' on our adventurers once a week, and in between sessions its mostly downtime. I might make a couple of different stereotypical routes, and create a small minigame out of it. Sort of like an idle game, where you just make a couple of choices and wait for the process to finish.

I'm gonna throw some ideas at a wall and see what sticks.



You manage to make a decent living out of adventuring, but sometimes you need to support your mercenary work with a day job. Other times you use your time to spend your adventuring-wealth in a meaningful way. Choose one of downtime aspirations listed below:

Criminal
Spy
Academic
Business Man
Faction work
Guild Work



This way you can actually PARTAKE in your background between adventures, which is pretty cool (in theory. I have no idea if this is actually fun or not, but it's worth suggesting it to my players). I might actually make it a lot easier on myself, and simply have the players pick a background, and create custom aspirations based on that. It saves me from having to create a bunch of aspirations, since I only need to flesh out the ones my player's already picked.

Before I start wondering what the effects of working on an aspiration for 6 in-game days or so, I'll take a look at Xanathar when I get home. Thanks for inspiring me ^^

Zhorn
2019-07-01, 11:53 AM
That's genius. I'm away from book, so I have no idea what this system looks like, but the idea is pretty dang good.

Just so I get it right, you ask them how much they want to invest in their downtime, and what direction they want to take (based on the options in Xanathar), and from that you extrapolate what happens during those 30 days?

Pretty much. I've been thinking about the lifestyle expenses for a while, and their lack of any direct impact to the characters. The more I tried to fiddle with it, the complexity just got too much.
So instead I just figured to simplify and abstract. If it needs to be precise, I do that on a case-by-case basis, but generally it's just "you live this lifestyle for a [x] amount of time, roll [y] benefits and and [z] consequences"
Xanathars tables work on the assumption of activities measured in weeks (10 day lots if you go by forgotten realms time). You can add more rolls if you really want, but I wouldn't go too overboard (I at most add 1 if the players are trying to do a bit extra, investing extra resources gets 1 benefit, intense training or risky behaviour gets 1 consequence).

I plan to keep my player's downtime sessions in 30 day blocks, just to keep the system consistent.
If they ask for a week here or there, I might just do a 1d4 roll based on their lifestyle for if they get a benefit or consequence (eg: Wretched roll 1d4; 1-3 consequence, 4 no result)

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-01, 12:09 PM
I'm looking at Xanathar's now.

The activities you are refering to, is this the list?

Buying a Magic Item
Carousing
Crime
Gambling
Pit Fighting
Religious Service
Research
Training

Then based on their "buy in" they get different amount of results / complications?

Zhorn
2019-07-01, 12:28 PM
I'm looking at Xanathar's now.

The activities you are refering to, is this the list?

Buying a Magic Item
Carousing
Crime
Gambling
Pit Fighting
Religious Service
Research
Training

Then based on their "buy in" they get different amount of results / complications?

That's the stuff.
Again, it's level of abstraction in applying those result. I've just put all the good results on one side, and all the bad on the other. Example, if someone was hunting down a magic item sale, and the roll came up as winning or loosing money, I'd say that the item they were looking at was shifted up or down in asking price. Play fast and loose with it.

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-02, 05:33 PM
This is a long way from being finished, and even further away from being implemented. I would, however, love to know if I'm on the right track.
Like you suggested, I took a swing at simplifying downtime, using lifestyles and the options from Xanathar.
I'd implement it in such a way that every 4 sessions or so, there's a month of downtime. During that time, a player is free to follow his character's specific aspirations.
I got the gold values from looking at the treasure hoard tables. Each hoard gives around 70-350gp at levels 1-5, so level times 10 is never a huge amount of gold, but just enough to be worth the opportunity cost. This is also meant as a DM supplement, not a player supplement.

Downtime
This sections offers players meaningful ways to spend their downtime between adventures. The following options are based on 30 days of downtime, and can be modified to represent any aspiration the player might have. Buying a magic item might represent some kind of solo adventuring and crime might represent a month at seas as a pirate.

Buy a Magic Item
You can use your downtime to search for a purveyor of magic items. Your success is based on your lifestyle and the price of the magic item is based on its rarity. At the end of your downtime, roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.


Modest: Roll 1d6 times on Magic Item Table A
Comfortable: Roll 1d6 times on Magic Item Table B
Wealthy: Roll 1d6 times on Magic Table C
Aristocratic: Roll 1d6 times on Magic Table D

Carousing
You have a chance to gain an allied contact living your lifestyle. Roll a luck dice. On a lucky result, you gain one allied contact. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.

Smithing
If you are proficient in Smith’s Tools you can use your downtime to craft a piece of armor or a weapon. When crafting an item this way, you get a discount equal to your level times 10. Roll a luck dice, on an unlucky result, roll for a complication.

Crafting Healing Potions
If you are proficient with a Herbalism Kit you can use your downtime to craft up to 4 Greater Healing Potions, for 100gp each. At the end of your downtime, roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.

Crime
You can use your downtime to gain some extra cash, at the risk of an arrest. At the end of your downtime, you gain gold equal to your level x times 10. At the end of your downtime, roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.

Play a game of Street Craps
You can gamble with members of your lifestyle, where the result is determined by a number of successes.
The player rolls two dice. On 7 or 11 he gains a success, on 2,3 or 12 he gains a failure. On any other roll, the game is a tie and the number rolled becomes "Point". Now the player has to roll until he hits is "Point", to gain a success, or a 7 to gain a failure. The player plays four rounds, and his earnings are based on his number of successes. At the end of your downtime, roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.


You lose an amount of gold equal to your lifestyle expenses.
You lose an amount of gold equal to half your lifestyle expenses.
You gain an amount do gold equal to your lifestyle expenses, plus half again more.
You gain an amount of gold equal to twice your lifestyle expenses.

Spell Scrolls
If you are a spellcaster, you can spend your downtime scribing spell scrolls. At the end of your downtime, roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.

Work
During your downtime, you can get a day job. You gain gold equal to your level x 10. At the end of your downtime, roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.

Learn a Skill
During your downtime you can attempt to learn a new skill, gaining proficiency in it. You can learn a number of new skills equal to your Intelligence modifier. At the end of your downtime, roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication.

Kane0
2019-07-02, 06:01 PM
30 days minimum might be a bit too high. It's not uncommon for a party to have a week off between forays, or want to do different things week to week. IIRC in the Realms you have a tenday which is your 'week', which makes some calculations much simpler.

You've already seen how I handle downtime, adding a living expense cost to it wouldn't be too difficult. For my own ease of memory I go:
Poor: 1cp per day
Average: 1sp per day
Rich: 1gp per day
Splendid: 1pp per day

Zhorn
2019-07-02, 10:35 PM
30 days minimum might be a bit too high. It's not uncommon for a party to have a week off between forays, or want to do different things week to week. IIRC in the Realms you have a tenday which is your 'week', which makes some calculations much simpler.

Generally, I agree with this. A static setting of a 30 day month will not work for everyone.
It works for me as I've already adjusting my time requirements for things like training in skills/tools/languages or crafting items to work on a shorter timescale than the DMG rules; because 250 days of downtime for skills and languages is just ridiculous, and a 5gp progress per day is needlessly restrictive (especially for plate armor).

The reason I choose 30 days is to give a reasonable amount of time for multiple activities, and wriggle room if a player wants to travel to a city and back in the downtime period for something, and not lose the time they needed spent in travel (in lifestyle expenses I just brush that off as hiring a different quality of transport/guard to keep the expense as a static lifestyle*30).

So when choosing the time period you want to work with, best to have a reason WHY you set it as such.

Xanathar's activities are based in weeks, so no issue there.

For training in proficencies (a language, weapon or tool) I run with 45 days minus WIS or INT (score, not modifier), which means characters that aren't blockheads generally have a good learning speed and can pick up a skill in about a month with a 15 or better.

Crafting is a system I've posted here before
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?579877-Adjusted-Crafting-Rules

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-03, 02:31 AM
I thought about having a workweek between each session, but it either made the benefits minimal or unrealistic. 30 days every 4 sessions gives each player wiggle room to have his/her character to go on an adventure on his/her own, which I thought was pretty cool.

I'm not sold on carousing though. I was thinking about adding a small list of benefits an ally might provide, or maybe one benefit per lifestyle. Any suggestions?

I know this is all better dealt with on the fly, but in case I'm running a session on a bad anxiety day, I really need to have a solid frame to fall back on. It's not just better for me, it's also provides consistency for my players.

Zhorn
2019-07-03, 03:45 AM
I thought about having a workweek between each session, but it either made the benefits minimal or unrealistic. 30 days every 4 sessions gives each player wiggle room to have his/her character to go on an adventure on his/her own, which I thought was pretty cool.
'Going on an adventure on their own' I wouldn't really call downtime.
If you can make a system that works for you, all the more power to you, but the concept of downtime is the non-adventuring aspect of the PCs' lives.
Narratively; it's the time they get to unwind after plundering tombs, reap the benefits of the loot they've acquired. The 'why' of the adventuring lifestyle being the rewards at the end and what to do with them.
From a player perspective it's the time for characters can use to do the things that don't fit into adventuring (crafting, training, etc).
And for the DM it's a way to either apply a gold sink (so that treasure can retain its value as a reward), or as a transition between adventures (so one scene needn't relate directly to the next).


I'm not sold on carousing though. I was thinking about adding a small list of benefits an ally might provide, or maybe one benefit per lifestyle. Any suggestions?

I know this is all better dealt with on the fly, but in case I'm running a session on a bad anxiety day, I really need to have a solid frame to fall back on. It's not just better for me, it's also provides consistency for my players.

Carousing is really just a default activity. It's the basis behind the trope of adventures starting in a tavern as the party is there (either individually or as a group) when someone approaches them with the quest hook.
Adding the Xanathar carousing outcomes is just a method of giving the party more than one hook.
example:
In a bar in Neverwinter; Gundren Rockseeker approaches the party to deliver a wagon load of supplies to Phandalin. That's the default hook.
The amount of carousing being done adds onto that.
In hearing about the job, one of your drinking friends wants you to check in on their cousin who works as a woodworker in the area, as they haven't replied to a letter in some time. There's a point of contact and a potential ally tied into the adventure.
A stranger overhears where you are going, and in seeing you look well armed, suggests you visit the town's miner's exchange if looking for some more 'mercenary' work, slipping you a Zhentarim emblem. There's another.
Pretty much it's a simple way to fill the players' quest log. A player investing in carousing is setting themselves up to know a bunch of options and story hooks without having to stumble in completely blind.
At least that's how I understand it and run it as such.

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-03, 11:57 AM
Going on an adventure on their own' I wouldn't really call downtime.

Narratively; it's the time they get to unwind after plundering tombs, reap the benefits of the loot they've acquired. The 'why' of the adventuring lifestyle being the rewards at the end and what to do with them.

Pretty much it's a simple way to fill the players' quest log. A player investing in carousing is setting themselves up to know a bunch of options and story hooks without having to stumble in completely blind.

Hm, you make an excellent point. I don't think I'll be able to use downtime as the motivation for adventuring in my game, but it's a very interesting thought. Each player should have it in his backstory "What are you going to do when you're done adventuring?". It's actually a pretty important piece of character info, that often gets neglected. In a more sandboxy game, I'd definitely use carousing as means of adding hooks.

I might be able to play up the factions and local personalities, and use favors. You can see I didn't use the religion downtime, so I could bunch those two together. Adding an NPC to your speed-dial is not a bad way to spend your downtime.

Carousing
You have a chance to gain an allied contact living your lifestyle. Roll a luck dice. On a lucky result, you gain one allied contact. An allied contact might be a part of a faction and willing to do you a favor.

Edit: I'll continue updating and editing in the downtimes my houserule google document if anyone's interested.

Bonus Question, If hiring a spellcaster to cast a 2nd level spell costs 50gp, and scribing a 2nd level spell scrolls takes 1 day and costs 25gp, how much would you pay to hire a spellcaster to scriba a spell scroll?

Is it Hire + Scroll = 75gp
Is it Hire + Scroll + Wages = 77gp
Is it Scroll + Wages = 27gp

Zhorn
2019-07-04, 06:08 AM
... roll a Luck Dice. On an unlucky result, roll for a complication...
You mention luck dice a lot in this homebrew... what is a luck dice, and what determines a lucky or unlucky result?


Hm, you make an excellent point. I don't think I'll be able to use downtime as the motivation for adventuring in my game, but it's a very interesting thought. Each player should have it in his backstory "What are you going to do when you're done adventuring?". It's actually a pretty important piece of character info, that often gets neglected. In a more sandboxy game, I'd definitely use carousing as means of adding hooks.
Thankyou, I always try to help :smallbiggrin:
In character creation, I always recommend to my players to to think of the 'why' they have become an adventurer, be it the motivations to run headfirst into dangerous situations, or the goal they are trying to work towards.
If a player ever runs into trouble about what they want to do or pursue, reminding them of that motivations is a good way to prompt decision making.



Bonus Question, If hiring a spellcaster to cast a 2nd level spell costs 50gp, and scribing a 2nd level spell scrolls takes 1 day and costs 25gp, how much would you pay to hire a spellcaster to scriba a spell scroll?

Is it Hire + Scroll = 75gp
Is it Hire + Scroll + Wages = 77gp
Is it Scroll + Wages = 27gp
So what base are you using for determining this cost? is it from another homebrew, either your own, or someone else's?
An answer about what the cost should be all depends on how you value other magic items and treasure in your game.
I can't really tell you what you should use as that depends on your own game more than anything else. Best I can do is share the method I'm using.

I'm a personal fan of the AL rules for purchasing spell casting services;
Gold Cost: [Spell Level squared * 10] + [DOUBLE of the consumed material cost] + [10% of non-consumed material cost]
This would be for visiting a temple or wizard tower to have spells cast while in a city.

From there, I set scroll purchase costs as being higher than that for the convenience factor that comes from having a spell-in-a-can rather than relying on having the caster present (I use an additional [Spell Level squared * 10] gp on top of the AL formula)*
note*: this is intentionally different to the cost I have for players crafting spell scrolls themselves (for my take on that see the link in post #9)

As for hiring a spell caster to follow the players around... I have not done anything for that yet. I was planning wait till The Dragon of Icespire Peak (Essentials Kit) was released to see how they handle followers in that.
But I would imagine a retainer cost like a month's wages in advance (similar to hiring a guide in ToA), with a percentage share of loot acquired would be the most realistic. Wages per day, I'd think it would have to be at least 5 gp per day for a low level caster. Skilled hirelings go for 2 gp a day, but those are intended for workers and servants, not combat mercenaries, especially the magically trained variety.

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-04, 10:58 AM
Luck Dice is just a coin flip, but with d20s. 10+ is safe, 9 or less is unlucky. I use it a lot as a means of taking some of the decisions out of my hand to avoid biases. I am personally very DM-aware when I'm a player, and luck rolls make me feel more like the game is taking a life on its own since not even the DM knows the outcome.

I hadn't thought of AL rules, I'll go check those out ^^