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Menelik
2019-07-01, 06:32 PM
I am preparing my first setting, and I need advice to fill some gaps.

Well, the setting goes like this: There is a kingdom (or empire, I still haven't decided) that is your typical feudal society... no concept of nation-state, fiefdoms are seen as properties of the lord, granted by their liege in exchange for military service, loyalty is first and foremost to your liege and to his bloodline...

The PCs will get involved in politics, most probably as agents of some high ranking noble, but they can become rebels, or, is they choose so, they can be high nobles themselves and pretenders to the throne...

The kingdom is big, old, powerful and prosperous... but the king is an douchebag, and he is gradually going insane (or maybe just senile... there aren't therapists around, this is a pseudo-medieval setting...), and everybody is basically praying for the old king to die soon so the intelligent, polite, chivalrous, learned, brave and over-qualified crown prince can become the next king... but the prince may not live long enough!

You see, the king demands that his heir will become the BEST KING EVER!, and he intends to achieve it through an extremely harsh training combined with unreasonably dangerous testing...

To begin with, the prince has received an extremely harsh and ascetic upbringing (think the way the Spartans raised their children), combined with a training regime and schedule ten times worse than the most demanding tiger mom's, and the expectation of being the best at everything, Batman-style... (win the tourney, play chess better than any courtier, memorize the classics, speak ten languages, play four musical instruments...etc.).

To everybody's surprise, the prince managed to push through all of that, and he did become an excellent heir (which had the effect of making everybody in the kingdom to wish for the death of the king even more...). But things became worse afterwards... the king wasn't satisfied, and he started to devise "tests" for the excellence of his heir... these tests started being hard, then became impossible, and eventually they escalated to outright suicidal...

The prince survived every challenge, but at some point he faced an ordeal so obviously impossible and lethal that he said "screw this, I am outta here!" and he ran away... remember, there isn't a concept of nation-state or patriotism, loyalty is to your family and liege, and he has run out of it (so he no longer feels honor-bound to risk his life trying to fulfill his father's expectations...), and since he is used to living conditions that would make a stylite ascetic shiver (so he isn't afraid of hardships) while being a multi-talented over-trained warrior-scholar (who could easily find a job anywhere), why would he fear exile?

So the only hope of a peaceful transition to a new reign has disappeared... the old king wiped all of his closest relatives due to fear of usurpers, and all that is left are fourth degree cousins who never expected to reach the throne... the monarch wavers from trying to force those relatives to pass the same tests his son did to prove their worth (which would most likely kill them all) to becoming paranoid and planning their assassination for fear of usurpation...

All that is keeping the kingdom from open war is the lack of a clear successor for the aristocracy to support, and the rumors about the runaway prince gathering an army in foreign lands in order to come back and claim his throne (those rumors are false... the prince is fed up with that royalty business, he is traveling as far away as he can as fast as he can, and he will never come back...).

There are several ways the PCs could become involved... being hired to kill the king, to impersonate the prince and try to start a rebellion, or even help a royal cousin to try his luck and pass the trials (and hope he doesn't get beheaded by the insane king as a reward)... etc., the decision belongs to the players... they have freedom to try to fix the mess...

What I have trouble right now are the details of the tests the king made his son pass... they must be fit for a future king, they must be dangerous, they must be hard, they must look impossible, but not so much that the prince has to be superhuman to pass them... Killing some dangerous beasts Heracles-style is a must, but that can be only a minor part of the trials... and of course, the characters may have to pass them themselves at some point...

So, what do you suggest?

MarkVIIIMarc
2019-07-01, 10:38 PM
I am preparing my first setting, and I need advice to fill some gaps.

Well, the setting goes like this: There is a kingdom (or empire, I still haven't decided) that is your typical feudal society... no concept of nation-state, fiefdoms are seen as properties of the lord, granted by their liege in exchange for military service, loyalty is first and foremost to your liege and to his bloodline...

The PCs will get involved in politics, most probably as agents of some high ranking noble, but they can become rebels, or, is they choose so, they can be high nobles themselves and pretenders to the throne...

The kingdom is big, old, powerful and prosperous... but the king is an douchebag, and he is gradually going insane (or maybe just senile... there aren't therapists around, this is a pseudo-medieval setting...), and everybody is basically praying for the old king to die soon so the intelligent, polite, chivalrous, learned, brave and over-qualified crown prince can become the next king... but the prince may not live long enough!

You see, the king demands that his heir will become the BEST KING EVER!, and he intends to achieve it through an extremely harsh training combined with unreasonably dangerous testing...

To begin with, the prince has received an extremely harsh and ascetic upbringing (think the way the Spartans raised their children), combined with a training regime and schedule ten times worse than the most demanding tiger mom's, and the expectation of being the best at everything, Batman-style... (win the tourney, play chess better than any courtier, memorize the classics, speak ten languages, play four musical instruments...etc.).

To everybody's surprise, the prince manage to push through all of that, and he did become an excellent heir (which had the effect of making everybody in the kingdom to wish for the death of the king even more...). But things became worse afterwards... the king wasn't satisfied, and he started to devise "tests" for the excellence of his heir... these tests started being hard, then became impossible, and eventually they escalated to outright suicidal...

The prince survived every challenge, but at some point he faced an ordeal so obviously impossible and lethal that he said "screw this, I am outta here!" and he ran away... remember, there isn't a concept of nation-state or patriotism, loyalty is to your family and liege, and he has run out of it (so he no longer feel honor-bound to risk his life trying to fulfill his father's expectations...), and since he is used to living conditions that would make a stylite ascetic shiver (so he isn't afraid of hardships) while being a multi-talented over-trained warrior-scholar (who could easily find a job anywhere), why would he fear exile?

So the only hope of a peaceful transition to a new reign has disappeared... the old king wiped all of his closest relatives due to fear of usurpers, and all that is left are fourth grade cousins who never expected to reach the throne... the monarch wavers from trying to force those relatives to pass the same tests his son did to prove their worth (which would most likely kill them all) to becoming paranoid and planning their assassination for fear of usurpation...

All that is keeping the kingdom from open war is the lack of a clear successor for the aristocracy to support, and the rumors about the runaway prince gathering an army in foreign lands in order to come and claim his throne (those rumors are false... the prince is fed up with that royalty business, he is traveling as far away as he can as fast as he can, and he will never come back...).

There are several ways the PCs could become involved... being hired to kill the king, to impersonate the prince and try to start a rebellion, or even help a royal cousin to try his luck and pass the trials (and hope he doesn't get beheaded by the insane king as a reward)... etc., the decision belongs to the players... they have freedom to try to fix the mess...

What I have trouble right now are the details of the tests the king made his son pass... they must be fit for a future king, they must be dangerous, they must be hard, they must look impossible, but not so much that the prince has to be superhuman to pass them... Killing some dangerous beasts Heracles-style is a must, but that can be only a minor part of the trials... and of course, the characters may have to pass them themselves at some point...

So, what do you suggest?

Sounds like an interesting setting.

If you plopped one group I play in there, they would go bounty or treasure hunting until the king died and then in the anarchy probably go a bit murder hobo and try to take over the place.

Another might dig around and find the good NPC's to help.

I'd be prepared to have some faction or other hire the group to do this or retrieve that and see who emerges as a would be king.

What class characters is everyone playing and what is their back story?

Great Dragon
2019-07-01, 11:25 PM
Some things that might be required:

Lv 01 - single handedly defeat a Zombie.

Lv 02 - write/sing a tear-inducing sonnet
(preform DC 12)

Lv 03 - face down a Medusa without looking away.
(Cannot turn to stone)

Lv 04 - outsmart a Minotaur in their maze

Lv 05 - kill a Manticore.

Lv 06 - kill an Intellect Devourer

Lv 07 - pin an Ogre in a Wrestling match

Lv 08 - capture a Bone Devil, and prevent it's escape from (or attacking during) the King's personal interview.

Lv 09 - capture a Were Boar

Lv 10 - Befriend a (Metallic?) Dragon
(Dragon must appear before the King and prove they are not a Polymorphed person, and doesn't devour anyone)

Totally Guy
2019-07-02, 03:51 AM
What if the players got to play as the king, the heir, the cousins and supporting aristocrats and you could play to find out how it all pans out.

Menelik
2019-07-02, 08:17 AM
What class characters is everyone playing and what is their back story?

Still undecided... As I said, I am going to let them choose to become mercenaries, rebels, pretenders to the throne or whatever they wish. We are using D&D 5e.


Some things that might be required:

Lv 01 - single handedly defeat a Zombie.

Lv 02 - write/sing a tear-inducing sonnet
(preform DC 12)

Lv 03 - face down a Medusa without looking away.
(Cannot turn to stone)

Lv 04 - outsmart a Minotaur in their maze

Lv 05 - kill a Manticore.

Lv 06 - kill an Intellect Devourer

Lv 07 - pin an Ogre in a Wrestling match

Lv 08 - capture a Bone Devil, and prevent it's escape from (or attacking during) the King's personal interview.

Lv 09 - capture a Were Boar

Lv 10 - Befriend a (Metallic?) Dragon
(Dragon must appear before the King and prove they are not a Polymorphed person, and doesn't devour anyone)

Sounds good... I will try to stick somewhere there "survive a night alone in the cursed castle of X", "jump the abyss of X" and "bypass the Wall of Fire of X and retrieve the treasure hidden behind...".

denthor
2019-07-02, 09:24 AM
Wow! You just put king Saul and Prince David now all into play. King Saul wanted to kill David, the kings real son pledged his life to be David's servant. Things got interesting quickly.

This is where alignments come into play. David refused to kill Saul (rightful king) David had Saul in a cave with his pants down. Cut his cape and left.

PC choose a side. If they want evil the king. Adventure kill the prince. The king accompanied his people on occasion.

If neutral the kings son who pledged to help. Adventure keep the kingdom from falling from outside influence (monsters, other kingdoms)

If good the Prince on the run. Secure food, expand kingdom, (monsters land carve out a hex) go to other kingdoms, do not kill king. His people are optional.

Menelik
2019-07-02, 10:11 AM
If good the Prince on the run. Secure food, expand kingdom, (monsters land carve out a hex) go to other kingdoms, do not kill king. His people are optional.

I am hesitant about allowing the players the easy, obviously good choice of finding and bringing back the crown prince (at least not from the beginning)... Since he is supposed to be both intelligent and a decent person, why wouldn't they allow him to make all the plans and take all the decisions?

And I don't want to pull the old "surprise! the prince is secretly evil too!" turn of events... that is overdone and predictable...

If the prince isn't around, they have to weigh the potential consequences of their actions and pick the lesser evil, use cunning and probably do some shady stuff in the name of the greater good...

Glimbur
2019-07-02, 11:21 AM
Not everyone wants the prince back. Chaos can be profitable and maybe others like their odds at getting the throne. And the prince would be difficult to convince. By the time they get it all straightened out it might be time to retite rhe characters for new ones anyway.

denthor
2019-07-02, 12:14 PM
I am hesitant about allowing the players the easy, obviously good choice of finding and bringing back the crown prince (at least not from the beginning)... Since he is supposed to be both intelligent and a decent person, why wouldn't they allow him to make all the plans and take all the decisions?

And I don't want to pull the old "surprise! the prince is secretly evil too!" turn of events... that is overdone and predictable...

If the prince isn't around, they have to weigh the potential consequences of their actions and pick the lesser evil, use cunning and probably do some shady stuff in the name of the greater good...


They do not have to know he is the Prince they are looking . Have close friend of Prince approach with pay for play scheme. Go scout this area. Is there this over there? What rumors did you hear in your travels?

They become eyes and ears.

Menelik
2019-07-03, 11:24 AM
They do not have to know he is the Prince they are looking . Have close friend of Prince approach with pay for play scheme. Go scout this area. Is there this over there? What rumors did you hear in your travels?

They become eyes and ears.

Mmmm... that's an option... thank you...

denthor
2019-07-03, 11:54 AM
Expanded background.

NPC named Fagan (Oliver twist) a far cry has gone out looking for skilled people. Report here.

PC show up one man sitting in a corner dressed differently. DC 10 spot he is the contact after 2 minutes( 20 rounds) it is obvious.

DC 12 spot check very nice clothing

DC 18 spot check he not sleeping well clothing spotted dirty

DC 20 spot to notice clothing is thread bare. This gives any 1st level with a 14 wisdom to notice.

People are leaving almost as soon as they say hello. Reason he is not paying up front. Asking for 10% of the take if any. Can be talked down to 4%. He gives no equipment does offer 10 days food not per person for what does take 20 days travel.

Does give written orders you can carry weapons valid if questioned. Not his name.

The party may or may not have gear your choice.

Mission find out what is in the caves 10 days away.

His intelligence is a 5. He can not even read the paperwork or do math. This is a moral check good neutral or we cheat the bastards are heading evil.

At the caves you find water, and a lawful evil cleric 1st level. She is willing to talk.

zinycor
2019-07-03, 02:10 PM
I don't get it... why is there a batman Prince? In my opinion you should get rid of that and just have the king killed all his close relatives so now there are lots of nobles pushing for throne.

I really don't see the purpose for the Prince to exist in your setting.

Aneurin
2019-07-03, 02:35 PM
Perhaps the Prince going AWOL is all part of the King's plan? The 'final test' as it were, to a.) show he has the strength of character to choose his own path and b.) to set him up as the heroic saviour of the kingdom who overthrew the previous king. It's not what you might call a good plan, but let's face it - neither is the one he has now.

At which point the PCs could be discreetly hired to get the Prince back on track, and have him start the revolution.

Or maybe one of the PCs is a lookalike for the Prince, and they're interested in seizing power themselves.

Menelik
2019-07-03, 08:44 PM
I don't get it... why is there a batman Prince? In my opinion you should get rid of that and just have the king killed all his close relatives so now there are lots of nobles pushing for throne.

I really don't see the purpose for the Prince to exist in your setting.

To allow the players try a "fake King Sebastian of Portugal" gambit if they wish to do so... google it.

King Sebastian wasn't that special, he wasn't even that good a king, but after he disappeared without leaving a corpse, his subjects yearned so much for his return that several impersonators managed to start rebellions...

I want the prince to be very talented to justify why people want for him to return so much, to make him harder to impersonate, to introduce him as a potential foe if the players take the full villain route, or as a way out of the mess if they grow tired of playing politics...

redwizard007
2019-07-07, 05:51 PM
If things get stale, you can always have the prince return, not at all the head of an army, but looking for one. He ran into the mongols/orc horde/githyanki and returned to warn his people and rally the defenses. Think of the chaos

Segev
2019-07-08, 11:20 AM
Things a ruler must do:

Defend his people (a classic of fairy tale princes-as-knights)
Slay the monster
Lead the army
Inspire loyalty
Build a band of loyal friends
Become leader of an organizan based on faith in him as a leader
Resolve intra-kingdom conflicts
Arbitrate disputes between nobles
Talk down warring clans (Hatfields/McCoys; Capulets/Montegues)
Resolve conflicting needs through compromise or third options
Manage a budget on a Kingdom-scale
Levy and collect taxes
Take on debts when necessary
Pay off debts responsibly
Promote the economy
Keep burdensome ruler interference from crippling economy
Prevent bad actors from leeching too much from the economy (thieves, monopolists, nobles, shysters/scam-artists)
Protect the fruits of his people's labor
Defend against raiders/bandits/external warlords
Administer justice
Make the hard choices when a sob-story doesn't excuse villainy
Show mercy when laws fail people, but without causing injustice to others
Determine truth behind crimes and misdeeds to punish only the guilty and to ensure the guilty do not "get away with it"
Balance the needs of justice and mercy against political expedience
Be a well-liked figurehead (this, he clearly already has done)

I'm thinking the truly impossible task should be one that, for anybody who hadn't risen to the highest of moral standards as this prince has, would be one of the easiest: resolve a problem caused by a corrupt noble. Perhaps it even mirrors a case that was the start of the King's descent into madness. There is a true innocent of no political importance who is being harmed by something, and justice and even the law demands that the corrupt noble behind it be punished, but the peasant is easily dismissed and allowed to suffer with minimal harm to anybody else (save maybe his little family), and the noble is too politically important to anger/lose.

Normally, the prince would make the hard but just choice and then go on to resolve whatever fallout occurs, but the King's test has demanded as part of the success criteria that the noble be "satisfied with the result." This case is the straw that broke the Prince's back, because his father finally gave him a truly impossible task by the Prince's standards; the Prince does not believe the noble deserves satisfaction, and cannot find any solution under justice that would satisfy the noble. The Prince's solution would be execution of the noble, so vile is the noble's crime, but the King has denied any solution that invovles circumventing the noble.

This is because the King, long ago, was faced with a similar problem. A different peasant, perhaps a different noble (may or may not be related by direct descent). The King did not believe he could work around the noble, or didn't have time, or something. It broke the King's heart, but he ruled in favor of the noble, and tried - and failed - to clandestinely protect the peasant. This compromise took what was once a noble-hearted and generally competent King down that slow and steady path of politically expedient choices, chipping away at his heart and allowing his conscience to drive him slowly mad with guilt and perceived traitors on all sides.

The Prince, thus, whom the King has been raising to be better than he was, is not being permitted to try to be better than the King was in this formative parallel.


One test that he probably passed: "Choose a bride." This is fraught, for a Prince. He hasn't yet married his chosen bride as of the time he runs away. Maybe he loves her, or maybe he chose her based on other standards but was prepared to be faithful to her. Either way, she wants him back more, perhaps, than anybody else, because while she's competent and has connections of her own, being Queen is way better than being a discarded fiancee, and she also recognizes that he'd be a wonderful man. She may even be in love with him...or, if she isn't, she recognizes that she could be. Also, the King may be targeting her for assassination out of fear that she'll usurp the throne to protect her position. Which she may be considering doing.

As a mark of how amazing the Prince is, the chosen Bride is actually close friends with her rivals whom she "defeated" to win his proposal, because he managed his courtship in such a way that all of them found reasons to like each other despite the competition for his hand. Some may have married in the interim, perhaps to the Prince's friends who were better suited for them. But this friendship with a number of influential Ladies is one reason the King fears the abandoned Bride.


"Bring in the most tax revenue from any of the feifdoms." The Prince was given a "principality" to rule that was one of the worst-producing in the land, and a set of vassals who resented him. It used to be two Counties of rebellious, wicked Counts, both of whom had their titles revoked by the King. One was executed; the other got away and became a bandit-ruler. The Counties had nothing but starving peasants and poverty-stricken but rich-living nobility. The Prince was put in charge when he was 12, and managed, by the time he was 17, to reform most of the nobles, earn their undying loyalty, and put in place policies and practices that turned his Principality into the most prosperous in the Kingdom. (This is, in no small part, a cause for the desire of the rest of the Kingdom that he take over already.)

The wicked Count is still out there, though.

For a twist, perhaps the wicked Count kidnapped the run-away Prince with an intent to take bloody revenge (or maybe ransom him back; he has a band of merry men to feed, after all), but he and his band, too, have been won over by the Prince much the way Caesar won over his kidnappers. Except the Prince has no intention of punishing them if they'll turn over a new leaf. Or maybe this happened while he was making the Principality prosper, and they became a sort of shadow hand for him, plaguing other wicked nobles rather than good people and giving the Prince intel on the underworld. In this case, they'd be amongst those who'd contact the would-be Queen to try to help her find the Prince.


He is credited with the design and construction of the fortress-keep that oversees the pass to an enemy nation. And somehow, none of the royal architects resent him for taking the job away. In truth, he got them to teach him architecture while they designed it, and DID come up with several innovations, but while he took public credit, he has always given credit to them whenever asked, so resentment is at a minimum.

Or, maybe, there are some who still harbor resentment, but they're in the minority. They could be a good source of intrigue, though.

Great Dragon
2019-07-13, 10:08 PM
@Segev

I've been doing a lot of

Plots with Fiends (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?591202-To-the-9th-(Plots)&p=24002254#post24002254)
(Devil's fist, then Demons, and so on) and so:

Paragraph #1 could also serve as a Fiendish (most likely Devil - I'm thinking either Mammon or Livistus - but maybe a Demon like Graz'zt could set it up) Plot to Taint the King enough to be pulled Down Below after Death.

The King's Insanity could be an outward manifestation of the Taint, or outright Possession?

If true, perhaps a Celestial delivered a message that the King needs Intervention to Save (Rescue if he dies) his Soul?