3.x - What if a creature had every feat in the game?

[unseenmage]

Just like the title says, what if one creature had every feat in the game and could use them regardless of prerequisite?
As if every feat were in a wearable item that let the creature use that feat regardless of prerequisite.

Sources allowed all first party, Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and all web content.

Feats you can take repeatedly can be built in 2x-1 times.

Does anything interesting actually happen or is this just a case of bigger numbers?

[Saintheart]

He qualifies for a hell of a lot of PrCs is my first reaction. Second reaction is that he gets free metamagic on all his spells, because he qualifies for a potentially infinite number of Extra Turning uses at once and all Divine Metamagic on every metamagic feat in the game without having to take the metamagic feat in its ordinary form first.

[JNAProductions]

He has ALL the hit points. Toughness taken repeatedly will do that.

Also DR ∞/-- thanks to Roll With It.

[Saintheart]

Metamorphic Transfer (XPH) means he can just be someone who changes form and pick up uses of the changed form's supernatural abilities - no prereqs, no psionics required. And when he does, all those Supernatural Abilities are Widened, Enlarged, Extended and Empowered (* Supernatural Ability feats, Tome of Magic, can be taken multiple times), even if it's a 1 HD monster since the prereqs are removed.

Get SR Infinite, because Awaken Spell Resistance can be taken multiple times and its prereqs that you're a dragon don't apply.

[Stevesciguy]

He wouldn't be able to make use of all that metamagic, though, because he would also have Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection, reducing his caster level by 12.

He would, however, be able to manifest just fine as long as we aren't using magic/psionics transparency. And he would have at least a bit of manifesting from all those feats.

Of course, who needs casting when you're an ubercharger with tons of health and boundless DR?

[Crichton]

First thing that happens is my Erudite Fuses with him, or with an Ice Assassin of him, and Astral Seeds, so I have every feat in the game too.

[Jack_Simth]

Just like the title says, what if one creature had every feat in the game and could use them regardless of prerequisite?
As if every feat were in a wearable item that let the creature use that feat regardless of prerequisite.

Sources allowed all first party, Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and all web content.

Feats you can take repeatedly can be built in 2x-1 times.

Does anything interesting actually happen or is this just a case of bigger numbers?

Depends in part on X. If X is, say, 5?

There's combinations of feats that literally make you a full caster (at caster level 5, granted, but still a full caster). You'll need Magical Training (Player's Guide to Faerun) to get some cantrips (as either a Wizard or Sorcerer), Practiced Spellcaster (brings your caster level up by 4, to a maximum of your hit dice), Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane: Adds a 2nd level spell to your spellbook, requires a DC 8 caster level check to cast - oh, hi Practiced Spellcaster), Heighten Spell, Earth Spell (Races of Stone), Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane), and Extra Slot (Also Complete Arcane). That last one repeatedly.

How it works:
You have a 2nd level spell. Extra Slot now gives you a 1st level spell slot.
Heighten one of your cantrips to 1st level, and cast it on earth or unworked stone in your sanctum. You're now casting a 3rd level spell.
As you can cast 3rd level spells, Extra Slot now gives you a 2nd level spell slot. This also eliminates the
Heighten one of your cantrips to 2nd level, and cast it on earth or unworked stone in your scantum. You're now casting a 4th level spell.
As you can cast 4th level spells, Extra Slot now gives you a 3rd level spell slot.
...
Et cetera. You can get up to 10th level spell slots that way (the non-Epic heighten is limited to 9th level spells, hence the limit; if you go Epic, things get VERY b0rKeD).

If you went with Wizard casting, you can add spells to your spellbook normally (as a Wizard).
If you went with Sorcerer casting, you get all the spells from the bloodline feats (see Dragon Compendium), and Extra Spell (up to your limit), to make a rather large number of total spells known.

Plus Regeneration (Troll Blooded), and... well, quite a few other things.

So you end up with a regenerating, high-HP (Toughness, Improved Toughness, Psionic Body + all the psionic feats, Azure Toughness, et cetera), high-AC (Improved Natural Armor), naturally flying (There's some tasty kobold-specific feats in races of the dragon), high-DR (roll with it) full caster for whom SR is a meaningful thing.

[Stevesciguy]

Depends in part on X. If X is, say, 5?

There's combinations of feats that literally make you a full caster (at caster level 5, granted, but still a full caster). You'll need Magical Training (Player's Guide to Faerun) to get some cantrips (as either a Wizard or Sorcerer), Practiced Spellcaster (brings your caster level up by 4, to a maximum of your hit dice), Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane: Adds a 2nd level spell to your spellbook, requires a DC 8 caster level check to cast - oh, hi Practiced Spellcaster), Heighten Spell, Earth Spell (Races of Stone), Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane), and Extra Slot (Also Complete Arcane). That last one repeatedly.

How it works:
You have a 2nd level spell. Extra Slot now gives you a 1st level spell slot.
Heighten one of your cantrips to 1st level, and cast it on earth or unworked stone in your sanctum. You're now casting a 3rd level spell.
As you can cast 3rd level spells, Extra Slot now gives you a 2nd level spell slot. This also eliminates the
Heighten one of your cantrips to 2nd level, and cast it on earth or unworked stone in your scantum. You're now casting a 4th level spell.
As you can cast 4th level spells, Extra Slot now gives you a 3rd level spell slot.
...
Et cetera. You can get up to 10th level spell slots that way (the non-Epic heighten is limited to 9th level spells, hence the limit; if you go Epic, things get VERY b0rKeD).

If you went with Wizard casting, you can add spells to your spellbook normally (as a Wizard).
If you went with Sorcerer casting, you get all the spells from the bloodline feats (see Dragon Compendium), and Extra Spell (up to your limit), to make a rather large number of total spells known.

Plus Regeneration (Troll Blooded), and... well, quite a few other things.

So you end up with a regenerating, high-HP (Toughness, Improved Toughness, Psionic Body + all the psionic feats, Azure Toughness, et cetera), high-AC (Improved Natural Armor), naturally flying (There's some tasty kobold-specific feats in races of the dragon), high-DR (roll with it) full caster for whom SR is a meaningful thing.

You'd need to find a way to deal with that -12 caster level first, unless I'm missing something in your method.

[MisterKaws]

World record for most feats. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16939083&postcount=21)

[Jack_Simth]

You'd need to find a way to deal with that -12 caster level first, unless I'm missing something in your method.Where's the minimum caster level for a spell defined?

But yes, some item boosting may be required.

[Stevesciguy]

Where's the minimum caster level for a spell defined?

But yes, some item boosting may be required.

From the PHB:


You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level. For example, at 10th level, Mialee can cast a fireball to a range of 800 feet for 10d6 points of damage. If she wishes, she can cast a fireball that deals less damage by casting the spell at a lower caster level, but she must reduce the range according to the selected caster level, and she can’t cast fireball with a caster level lower than 5th (the minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireball).

[MisterKaws]

From the PHB:

Though Wild Mage breaks that restriction in little pieces.

[Stevesciguy]

Though Wild Mage breaks that restriction in little pieces.

I am unfamiliar with wild mage

[MisterKaws]

I am unfamiliar with wild mage


Wild Magic: A wild mage casts spells differently from any other arcane spellcaster. She reduces her caster level by 3 for all spells she casts from now on. However, every time she casts a spell, her use of wild magic adds 1d6 to her adjusted caster level.

Though the RAW is questionable on whether the caster level reduction is before or after you choose your caster level for a spell.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

World record for most feats. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16939083&postcount=21)504 feats? That's it?

I have a build with a lot more than that. Like, nearly 200,000 feats, and only just that because I decided to stop. That, and my Excel XP spreadsheet doesn't have enough rows to store them all.

Even then, I've taken as many 3rd party and Pathfinder feats as I can get my hands on, just so I have a reason to use most of them.

[MisterKaws]

504 feats? That's it?

I have a build with a lot more than that. Like, nearly 200,000 feats, and only just that because I decided to stop. That, and my Excel XP spreadsheet doesn't have enough rows to store them all.

Even then, I've taken as many 3rd party and Pathfinder feats as I can get my hands on, just so I have a reason to use most of them.

I mean, you can get infinite feats via Sarrukh. This one is the highest without loops.

[Mike Miller]

Just like the title says, what if one creature had every feat in the game and could use them regardless of prerequisite?
As if every feat were in a wearable item that let the creature use that feat regardless of prerequisite.

Sources allowed all first party, Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and all web content.

Feats you can take repeatedly can be built in 2x-1 times.

Does anything interesting actually happen or is this just a case of bigger numbers?

Fun things, clearly. This TO game you have going is absurd, no? Assuming you haven't already told flap your plans, I say go for it.

[unseenmage]

Fun things, clearly. This TO game you have going is absurd, no? Assuming you haven't already told flap your plans, I say go for it.

Oh definitely already did. Now I'm just gauging the ramifications.

[Stevesciguy]

Oh definitely already did. Now I'm just gauging the ramifications.

Wait, you're doing this for an actual game?

[unseenmage]

Wait, you're doing this for an actual game?

Pretty much. Nigh infinite resources, fast time access of 1 round equals 39 years, Constructs are Magic Items so the feats can be built into the Warforged via Feats in Magic Items sidebar in AaEG.

Oh and the game is billed as TO enabled.

My cheese is the least stinky cheese. I cant even move at "1,000 times the speed of light".

Mostly it's a chance for me to ponder neat theory craftings and bug the playground with them. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

From the PHB:
Other than the specific example of a Wizard casting Fireball, that's just referencing that there is one. There's no definition of what the minimum caster level actually is.

But I suppose some feats should be retrained out.

[Falontani]

Your a 5th level wizard. You have enough intelligence to get a single extra third level spell slot per day. You get a single negative level. You lose a single of your highest level spell slot that you have prepared, meaning you still have 1 third level spell slot with a spell prepared. You meet the intelligence requirement to cast it. So you do. At cl 4. All effects of the spell are reduced just as they would be increased if you were cl 6. So a fireball would still be dc 13+ intelligence mod + miscellaneous boosts, the range would still be 400 + 40/cl, the radius would still be 20 ft, and the damage is still 1d6/cl. But it would be 560 ft range dealing 4d6 fire ref for half in a 20 ft radius.

Complete arcane, back of the book has mage duels, and specify that it is indeed possible to lower your effective caster level at your own choice. So why can't a wizard throw a weak fireball?

Inversely, why would you expect a minimum caster level with things like Divine Crusader, Trapsmith, and Demonologist casting spells like: haste cl 1, wish caster level 9, or circle against evil cl 3.

Minimum caster levels do not exist, nor have they ever existed in 3.5. The line quoted has no backing in even a core only game. Several monsters in the mm have sla's with cl lower than the "minimum" to cast them.

[Stevesciguy]

Complete arcane, back of the book has mage duels, and specify that it is indeed possible to lower your effective caster level at your own choice. So why can't a wizard throw a weak fireball?

The quoted text directly says you can't do that. Even if we're being painfully RAW and saying that it only applies to fireball, as fireball is the only spell mentioned, a Wizard cannot cast a fireball at lower than CL 5.


Inversely, why would you expect a minimum caster level with things like Divine Crusader, Trapsmith, and Demonologist casting spells like: haste cl 1, wish caster level 9, or circle against evil cl 3.

Minimum caster levels do not exist, nor have they ever existed in 3.5. The line quoted has no backing in even a core only game. Several monsters in the mm have sla's with cl lower than the "minimum" to cast them.

The minimum level isn't tied to the spell, it's tied to the thing casting it. A Wizard can't cast a fireball below CL 5, but another thing can, because it's not a Wizard.

Yes, by RAW, there is no definition for minimum caster level.

But by RAI, it's crystal clear.

[Lans]

He wouldn't be able to make use of all that metamagic, though, because he would also have Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection, reducing his caster level by 12.

He would, however, be able to manifest just fine as long as we aren't using magic/psionics transparency. And he would have at least a bit of manifesting from all those feats.

Of course, who needs casting when you're an ubercharger with tons of health and boundless DR?

That would be mitigated by practiced spellcaster and other feats

[Falontani]

The quoted text directly says you can't do that. Even if we're being painfully RAW and saying that it only applies to fireball, as fireball is the only spell mentioned, a Wizard cannot cast a fireball at lower than CL 5.



The minimum level isn't tied to the spell, it's tied to the thing casting it. A Wizard can't cast a fireball below CL 5, but another thing can, because it's not a Wizard.

Yes, by RAW, there is no definition for minimum caster level.

But by RAI, it's crystal clear.



It’s also possible to run this bluff in reverse when an arcanist
wants to conceal that he is trying not to kill his foe (useful in
duels when a high-level spellcaster wants to teach a talented
upstart a lesson but doesn’t want to run the risk of killing him).
This tactic is only effective when pulling the damage from energy
spells (since taking nonlethal damage in a supposedly lethal duel
is an obvious giveaway to the opponent.

Specifically is possible to cast spells at lower caster levels than what your capable of casting.

Divine Crusader gets access to the same list as clerics get in regards to the domain. It's why I chose them in my example. Cleric can't cast wish until they get ninth level spells from the domain (17th level) but if what your saying is true, they could have cast their domain spell at caster level 9 if they had the slot.

My question to you, why is your RaI the "Crystal clear" answer, and what is it about my RaI that doesn't fit with your reading? That one specific quote, or would its interpretation tear down the fundamentals of magic in your head?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I mean, you can get infinite feats via Sarrukh. This one is the highest without loops.Procure a +1 morphing/sizing/ringsword arrow, and add the following magic item effects for the following feats:

Amulet of good fortune (grey elephant) (Dragon #322): Blindfight.
Fanged ring (Dragon Magic): Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack.
Ring of heroes (Pathfinder): Luck of Heroes.
Ring of sandstriding (Sandstorm): Sandskimmer.
Dark blue ioun stone (DMG): Alertness.
Cavalryman's saddle (Dragon #334): Endurance and Run.
Shadahkar's swift wind (Dragon #324): Endurance and Run.
Boots of charging (Mini): Powerful Charge.
Helm of the hunter (MIC): Far Shot.
Mask of the tiger (MIC): Track.
Panther mask (MIC): Run.
Horizon goggles (CM): Far Shot.
Belt of endurance (A&EG): Great Fortitude.
Cape of the wastes (Sandstorm): Sand Camouflage.
Rampaging boar necklace (A&EG): Sunder and Great Sunder.
Gloves of the balanced hand (MIC): TWF and ITWF.
Staff of mighty sweeping (Magic of Faerun): Improved Trip.
Breaking blade (A&EG): Improved Sunder.
Disarming flail (A&EG): Improved Disarm.
Griffonlance of goring (wizards.com): Spirited Charge.
Lance of Faerun (Magic of Faerun): Spirited Charge.
Pearl trident (Stormwrack): Aquatic Shot.
Rankbreaker glaive (A&EG): Cleave.
Sword of the glorious pearl (Stormwrack): Extra Turning.
Rapier of disarming (Dragon #322): Improved Disarm.
Staff of the crushing breeze (Dragon #325): Improved Trip.
Silver sickles of Soranth (Wizards.com): Ambidexterity and TWF.
Silverhelm of the guardian (Wizards.com): Improved Initiative.
Serpent armor (MIC): Combat Reflexes.
Scorpion carapace (Sandstorm): Scorpion's Resolve and Scorpion's Sense.
Bracers of blinding strike (Magic of Faerun): Improved Initiative.
Rod of reversal (CDivine): Improved Counterspelling.
Dragonfly medallion (A&EG): Improved Initiative.
Greater holy symbol (Defenders of the Faith): Empower Turning.
Basilisk's mask (Dragon #340): Diehard.
Monkey head talisman (Dragon #351): Deflect Arrows, Spring Attack, and Stunning Fist.
Battle bridle (MIC) Mounted Combat and Ride-By Attack.
Golden dancing pegleg (Dragon #318): Mobility and Spring Attack.
Shattering weapon enhancement (Dark Sun): Improved Sunder.
Waymaker shield enhancement (Dragon #292): Grants Improved Bull Rush.

(Note that some of them grant "the benefits of" certain feats. Personally, I include "the ability to DCFS it out for another feat" as a benefit of having a feat, but YMMV. Others just flat-out grant you the feat. Use those exclusively if your DM demands it.)

Morph the above arrow into a poison ring (from Dragon Compendium).

Duplicate the arrow-ring via mirror of opposition tricks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246396-Another-Addition-To-The-Tippyverse). Do this as many times as you want feats.

Now link all of those poison rings together (as remember, each ring is a ringsword weapon, which allows you to wear another ring by attaching it to it, without taking up a ring slot). Since they're all sizing, make the first regular-size, then shrink all the others to Fine size and daisy-chain 'em together.

Craft a power-link shard, dukar hand coral, or other implantable item. Magically enhance it as a slotless hand of glory. Slide the regular-sized poison ring onto the coral shard of glory (or whatever you wanna call it). Implant it into your body. Now you have a ton of feats to DCFS, limited only by however many rings you can get.

Might wanna get some freebie DCFSes, though, because that's a LOT of XP you're hemorrhaging. Maybe a few nested thought bottles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?217819-Nesting-Thought-Bottles-millions-of-wishes) created by the above mirror of opposition trick.

You don't need the mirror of opposition trick, but it helps keep expenses down. Luckily, the above arrow isn't too expensive -- at least, not if you use crafting cost reducers.

And voila. As many feats as you care for (and can afford).

[Stevesciguy]

Specifically is possible to cast spells at lower caster levels than what your capable of casting.

I was never arguing you couldn't do that. It's even in that quote I made earlier. I'm only arguing that you can't cast a spell at a lower CL than your class gets it.


Divine Crusader gets access to the same list as clerics get in regards to the domain. It's why I chose them in my example. Cleric can't cast wish until they get ninth level spells from the domain (17th level) but if what your saying is true, they could have cast their domain spell at caster level 9 if they had the slot.

Like I said before, minimum caster level isn't tied to the spell, it's tied to the creature casting it. Divine Crusader is a different casting class than Cleric. By taking levels in the class, they can get 9th level spells at caster level 9. A Cleric has to wait until caster level 17 to cast 9th level spells, discounting any special abilities that would allow otherwise, specific trumping general as usual.


My question to you, why is your RaI the "Crystal clear" answer, and what is it about my RaI that doesn't fit with your reading? That one specific quote, or would its interpretation tear down the fundamentals of magic in your head?

Yes, I am extrapolating my RAI from that specific paragraph I quoted from the Caster Level section of the Magic chapter of the Player’s Handbook that discusses this facet of spellcasting. I truly cannot tell where you are getting your interpretation from.

It's pretty clear that neither of us will convince the other. Let's let the thread get back on topic.

[AvatarVecna]

Just like the title says, what if one creature had every feat in the game and could use them regardless of prerequisite?
As if every feat were in a wearable item that let the creature use that feat regardless of prerequisite.

Sources allowed all first party, Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and all web content.

Feats you can take repeatedly can be built in 2x-1 times.

Does anything interesting actually happen or is this just a case of bigger numbers?

Depends on how you define X I guess, and what that creature is already capable of. Not needing to meet prereqs makes things easier.

Armor Skin, Damage Reduction, Dragon's Toughness, Dwarf's Toughness, Energy Resistance, Fast Healing, Giant's Toughness, Great Dexterity, Great Constitution, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Spell Resistance, Inured To Energy, Resist Death, Roll With It, Thick-Skinned, and Toughness means that past a certain value of X, you basically can't be hit, hurt, kept injured, or overwhelmed with high damage.

Epic Prowess, Great Strength, and Great Dexterity will ensure you never miss.

Cosmopolitan, Epic Skill Focus, Great Intelligence, Item Familiar, Open Minded, Skill Focus will give you every skill as a class skill with full ranks and big bonuses at higher X values.

If you're a Factotum, Great Intelligence and Font Of Inspiration mean massive bonuses to attack, damage, saves, AC, Str/Dex skills/checks, and an extra standard action every round.

If you're a caster, Great {casting stat}, Enhance Spell, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity, Multispell, and a single iteration of Epic Spellcasting will help out a lot. Add in Arcane Thesis, Spell Knowledge, Extra Spell, Extra Slot, Bonus Domain, and/or Spellcasting Prodigy as appropriate. That's probably as "optimized" as things are gonna get.

If you're a crafter (and it certainly seems like you are), 2X-1 iterations of Efficient Item creation applied to Exceptional Artisan seem like they'll speed up your crafting process quite a bit.

Great Wisdom, Stunning Fist, Freeze The Lifeblood, Death Devotion, and a single iteration each of Improved Unarmed Strike and Ring The Golden Bell will let you attempt to damage+stun/paralyze+negative level targets at arbitrary distances all day.

Mental Leap, Inner Strength, and 3.0 Speed Of Thought will let you move/jump arbitrary distances with minimum effort.

Spell Stowaway makes it difficult for people to buff near you without giving you an advantage.

[Elrak]

In essence you can make a semi passable imitiation of basically every alternative base class (i.e. Hidden talent, Bind Vestige, martial Study/Stance, Magical training (as others have mentioned)

You also profit from all of the devotion feats which can be powered endlessly through extra turning.

Minsight will let you detect most creatures, (you can actually detect all creatures with Extra Favored Enemy + Nemesis far all Creatures, Mindsight has just a longer range) and with Blindsense + Extra Wildshape you can actually pinpoint them.


Some of the other feat chains I like but usually are not featured a lot woudl be:

Shape Soulmeld + Open Chakra (all of them) + All of the Azure/Cobalt Feats+ Bonus Essentia X times will make you a beetter meldshaper than any base class.

Dragonmark lines (least, lesser, greater, adept, visionary...) will give you quite a few SLAs with a decent caster level althoough you would still need to mitigate the issue f mage slayer and co (just not add them to yur warforged)

Draconic Aura + Dragontouched + Double Draconic Aura will give you 2 interchangeable auras which you can share with your allies (30ft) that scale with your level

[Malphegor]

Actually hitting you will take a while anyway if only because of parsing how all these feats interact, hahaha.

Hey, this'd include the Dragon Compendium Bloodline feats, right?

Because hey, you now have a lot of spells... That you'd think you'd be restricted on since most of them prevent you from using spells of X subtype... Hm.

That's a thought. someone with all those bloodline feats. You can't cast Evil spells because Celestial Bloodline. Fiendish Bloodline locks you out of Good spells. Illithid Bloodline locks you out of various shapechanging spells. Necromantic locks you out of Conjuration (Healing) spells which means the only healing spell available is a Exalted Necromancy one, Blood of the Martyr which Fiendish already locked you out of.
most elemental spells are off limits now. The tangled web of 'what spells can I actually cast now' would be interesting.


I think ultimately this is going to result in a ridiculously powerful wizard whose only capability is to cast Magic Missile... but cast it REALLY well, with all the metamagics ever.

[Asmotherion]

So basically pun-pun?

[Jack_Simth]

So basically pun-pun?
No. Nowhere near. If it was properly infinite on the repeating feats maybe. Although....

Although I suppose the character would have enough resources to kick off the pun-pun loop....

[MisterKaws]

Procure a +1 morphing/sizing/ringsword arrow, and add the following magic item effects for the following feats:

Amulet of good fortune (grey elephant) (Dragon #322): Blindfight.
Fanged ring (Dragon Magic): Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack.
Ring of heroes (Pathfinder): Luck of Heroes.
Ring of sandstriding (Sandstorm): Sandskimmer.
Dark blue ioun stone (DMG): Alertness.
Cavalryman's saddle (Dragon #334): Endurance and Run.
Shadahkar's swift wind (Dragon #324): Endurance and Run.
Boots of charging (Mini): Powerful Charge.
Helm of the hunter (MIC): Far Shot.
Mask of the tiger (MIC): Track.
Panther mask (MIC): Run.
Horizon goggles (CM): Far Shot.
Belt of endurance (A&EG): Great Fortitude.
Cape of the wastes (Sandstorm): Sand Camouflage.
Rampaging boar necklace (A&EG): Sunder and Great Sunder.
Gloves of the balanced hand (MIC): TWF and ITWF.
Staff of mighty sweeping (Magic of Faerun): Improved Trip.
Breaking blade (A&EG): Improved Sunder.
Disarming flail (A&EG): Improved Disarm.
Griffonlance of goring (wizards.com): Spirited Charge.
Lance of Faerun (Magic of Faerun): Spirited Charge.
Pearl trident (Stormwrack): Aquatic Shot.
Rankbreaker glaive (A&EG): Cleave.
Sword of the glorious pearl (Stormwrack): Extra Turning.
Rapier of disarming (Dragon #322): Improved Disarm.
Staff of the crushing breeze (Dragon #325): Improved Trip.
Silver sickles of Soranth (Wizards.com): Ambidexterity and TWF.
Silverhelm of the guardian (Wizards.com): Improved Initiative.
Serpent armor (MIC): Combat Reflexes.
Scorpion carapace (Sandstorm): Scorpion's Resolve and Scorpion's Sense.
Bracers of blinding strike (Magic of Faerun): Improved Initiative.
Rod of reversal (CDivine): Improved Counterspelling.
Dragonfly medallion (A&EG): Improved Initiative.
Greater holy symbol (Defenders of the Faith): Empower Turning.
Basilisk's mask (Dragon #340): Diehard.
Monkey head talisman (Dragon #351): Deflect Arrows, Spring Attack, and Stunning Fist.
Battle bridle (MIC) Mounted Combat and Ride-By Attack.
Golden dancing pegleg (Dragon #318): Mobility and Spring Attack.
Shattering weapon enhancement (Dark Sun): Improved Sunder.
Waymaker shield enhancement (Dragon #292): Grants Improved Bull Rush.

(Note that some of them grant "the benefits of" certain feats. Personally, I include "the ability to DCFS it out for another feat" as a benefit of having a feat, but YMMV. Others just flat-out grant you the feat. Use those exclusively if your DM demands it.)

Morph the above arrow into a poison ring (from Dragon Compendium).

Duplicate the arrow-ring via mirror of opposition tricks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246396-Another-Addition-To-The-Tippyverse). Do this as many times as you want feats.

Now link all of those poison rings together (as remember, each ring is a ringsword weapon, which allows you to wear another ring by attaching it to it, without taking up a ring slot). Since they're all sizing, make the first regular-size, then shrink all the others to Fine size and daisy-chain 'em together.

Craft a power-link shard, dukar hand coral, or other implantable item. Magically enhance it as a slotless hand of glory. Slide the regular-sized poison ring onto the coral shard of glory (or whatever you wanna call it). Implant it into your body. Now you have a ton of feats to DCFS, limited only by however many rings you can get.

Might wanna get some freebie DCFSes, though, because that's a LOT of XP you're hemorrhaging. Maybe a few nested thought bottles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?217819-Nesting-Thought-Bottles-millions-of-wishes) created by the above mirror of opposition trick.

You don't need the mirror of opposition trick, but it helps keep expenses down. Luckily, the above arrow isn't too expensive -- at least, not if you use crafting cost reducers.

And voila. As many feats as you care for (and can afford).

I don't think you can DCFS item feats. That's like wearing a Fanged Ring and using it to get Draconic Tail via Dragonborn.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't think you can DCFS item feats. That's like wearing a Fanged Ring and using it to get Draconic Tail via Dragonborn.Well, they are permanent, since they're physically implanted in your body and can't be removed (especially if the item(s) they're attached to are magically hidden; either way, there's no magical aura, since there's no LoS). And the DCFS makes absolutely no distinction between types of feats or where they come from.

I could see the feats being removed if the item is removed, but so long as they're present, you should keep the benefits of the altered item feats.

[PraxisVetli]

Specifically is possible to cast spells at lower caster levels than what your capable of casting.

Divine Crusader gets access to the same list as clerics get in regards to the domain. It's why I chose them in my example. Cleric can't cast wish until they get ninth level spells from the domain (17th level) but if what your saying is true, they could have cast their domain spell at caster level 9 if they had the slot.

My question to you, why is your RaI the "Crystal clear" answer, and what is it about my RaI that doesn't fit with your reading? That one specific quote, or would its interpretation tear down the fundamentals of magic in your head?

Not to bring this back up, but can you quote the page in Complete Arcane for that?
I need it for my own purposes and I just don't see it.

[Stevesciguy]

Not to bring this back up, but can you quote the page in Complete Arcane for that?
I need it for my own purposes and I just don't see it.

Page 178, the "It Just Got Away from Me" sidebar

It's about using Bluff to either convince the opponent and spectators that you cast a lethal spell instead of a nonlethal spell by accident, or for when you want to pull your punches but convince them that you aren't.

[PraxisVetli]

Page 178, the "It Just Got Away from Me" sidebar

It's about using Bluff to either convince the opponent and spectators that you cast a lethal spell instead of a nonlethal spell by accident, or for when you want to pull your punches but convince them that you aren't.

Ah!
Doesn't do what I needed, but thanks for helping me find it.

[Telok]

It might be a bit detail but does the 'cast lower than caster level' thing say that you can cast lower than your current caster level (a cl 10 wiz can cast a cl 6 fireball) or does it say that you can cast the spell's minimum caster level for your class (a cl 10 wizard can cast a cl 2 fireball)?

[Stevesciguy]

It might be a bit detail but does the 'cast lower than caster level' thing say that you can cast lower than your current caster level (a cl 10 wiz can cast a cl 6 fireball) or does it say that you can cast the spell's minimum caster level for your class (a cl 10 wizard can cast a cl 2 fireball)?

I'm arguing the former, Falontani is arguing the latter.

IE, I'm arguing that a level 10 wizard can cast a fireball at any CL from 5 to 10, she's arguing that a level 10 wizard can cast a fireball anywhere from CL 1 to CL 10.

Here's the relevant paragraph in the PHB:

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level. For example, at 10th level, Mialee can cast a fireball to a range of 800 feet for 10d6 points of damage. If she wishes, she can cast a fireball that deals less damage by casting the spell at a lower caster level, but she must reduce the range according to the selected caster level, and she can’t cast fireball with a caster level lower than 5th (the minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireball).

[SangoProduction]

Then the player/dm/whatever will use maybe 5 of them, and forget the rest exist.

[Mordaedil]

You'd need to find a way to deal with that -12 caster level first, unless I'm missing something in your method.

Reserves of Strength, Storm Magic and Frozen Magic can cover half of that.

You can probably also use Aberrant Draonmark Mystery, a reserve feat, Domain Focus, Fey Power, Fiendish Power, Hellsworn, Improved Alignment-based Casting (for a +3), Lunar Magic and Metamagic Vigor to further increase caster level, for situations applicable.

[RedMage125]

The claim that the "minimum caster level" rules don't exist is bunk. The claim that the text in the PHB/SRD "only applies to fireball" is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.

PHB quote:
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level. For example, at 10th level, Mialee can cast a fireball to a range of 800 feet for 10d6 points of damage. If she wishes, she can cast a fireball that deals less damage by casting the spell at a lower caster level, but she must reduce the range according to the selected caster level, and she can’t cast fireball with a caster level lower than 5th (the minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireball).

Emphasis added.

Fireball is used as an EXAMPLE, and says so in the text.

A Wizard may not cast fireball below CL 5. A Sorcerer may not cast Fireball below CL 6.

Yes, some monsters have spells as SLAs with lower CL than appear on any class list. So what? So do some Prestige Classes. A cleric may cast Flame Strike at CL 9, a druid may cast it at CL 7, and an Ur-Priest may cast it at CL 5. Even if a Sorcerer 10/Ur-Priest10, who may cast his Ur-Priest spells at CL 15, may lower his CL to 5 for Flame Strike, because 5 is the class level of Ur-Priest at which he was first able to cast that spell.

To wit: your question on Prestige Classes. If a Prestige Class has a distinct spell progression (i.e. not "+1 level of existing class"), then yes, the Class level of the PrC determines the minimum for that character, even if the PrC allows them to improve their caster level from other sources (like how Ur-Priest adds half his CL from other spellcasting classes to his Ur-Priest CL). I don't have books in front of me right now, but assuming you're correct about Divine Crusader, trapsmith and Demonologist, then yes, CL1 Haste, CL3 Circle Against Evil, etc.

Falontani, you are just grossly incorrect. If your caster level is reduced below the minimum necessary to cast a spell, you may not cast it. Even if you have a spell slot available, such as your level 5 wizard with one negative level example. "Minimum Caster Level" is not a term that appears in the books, that much is correct. It's a colloquialism that we, as consumers of the D&D product use when we are indicating the lowest level at which a given caster may cast a spell in question. Certain spells appear on certain class' spell lists lists (and PrC spell lists) at varying levels. So "minimum caster level" is not something that can ever be applied to a given spell (as in, the spell by itself, in a vacuum). But that doesn't mean that each caster doesn't have a minimum CL required for each of their spells.

[Hish]

I think a link to BoBaFeat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503665-quot-TO-BoBaFeat-quot-Body-outside-Body-amp-Moment-of-Clarity) is relevant.

[noob]

it would be vulnerable to fear due to craven.

[Lans]

I think a better 'what if' would be somthing like what if a commoner got class level+2 feats every level, and could use its class level+10 for meeting prefequisites.

[Bphill561]

The whole caster level thing is interesting, but I think with practiced spell caster (+4) and arcane thesis for every spell (+2) already eats 6 of that 12 levels. Plus you have every domain from Extra Domain feat (if you worship the right fiend or ideal), reserve feat, fell energy spell to push magic tatoo and every other spell caster level bonuses up by 2 with undead emulation spells up, earth spell (which gets interesting if it works with improved heighten spell) and equipment to help the rest. And every emanation spell has Epic Permanent emanation feats your caster level should be fine (greater consumptive field should help, etc.) Hell, sanctum spell might help as well by making fireball level 2 effectively.

Free metamagic was mentioned through turning attempts, but with every metamagic feat only costing 1 from multiple Improved metamagic feats mixed with every arcane thesis, you already negated all metamagic except Heighten spell which the level 0 adjusters should help cancel out.

Luck. abyssal, draconic feats would be fun since they stack, not sure if any of those you can take more than once. Like hit points mentioned earlier from toughness, open mind would give you unlimited skill points. Ability scores would also be infinite with Epic stat increasing feats. This of course means you would have unlimited inspiration points even if not a factotum since you auto qualify for every feat. Unlimited spell slots from Extra spell slot and Improved Spell capacity. I am not sure if there is much that would not be maxed out, including you patient in figuring all that stuff out.

[SimonMoon6]

Re: 3.x -

Feats you can take repeatedly can be built in 2x-1 times.


Okay... so in 3.0, x = 0, so a repeated feat could only be taken 20-1 = 2-1 = 1/2 times? How can you take a feat one half of a time?

And in 3.5, that would mean x = 5, so a repeated feat could only be taken 24 = 16 times.