Boss who commands a swarm of children

[nakedonmyfoldin]

So long story short, a boss I’m planning has sway over say 50 children. They would die for their “Mother”. Of course, I don’t intend for these children to be enemies that should be slain, that would be disturbing. The conflict will likely be wading through these hostile kids to battle the boss.

I’m looking for tips on how to run this including:
-difficult terrain
-ensnarement
-cover
-flanking
-my personal favorite - Lair actions - on certain initiatives the kids attempt to subdue any players they’ve surrounded.
Any tips are very appreciated!

[nickl_2000]

Difficult terrain: Pointy Multicolored blocks that have round nubs on the top and link together. When you step on them it it does 1d8 piercing damage and lowers your movement by half.

[Tawmis]

So long story short, a boss I’m planning has sway over say 50 children. They would die for their “Mother”. Of course, I don’t intend for these children to be enemies that should be slain, that would be disturbing. The conflict will likely be wading through these hostile kids to battle the boss.

I’m looking for tips on how to run this including:
-difficult terrain
-ensnarement
-cover
-flanking
-my personal favorite - Lair actions - on certain initiatives the kids attempt to subdue any players they’ve surrounded.
Any tips are very appreciated!

This is all going to boil down to your players... and what they're willing to do as characters.
You may have a... uncomfortable... bloody mess on your hands... that involves the slaughter of children.
Unless you allow for "subduing" / "non fatal damage" (which would be coming from your melee people, who would use the hilt of their swords, or the flat of their blades, to essentially try and knock out the children), or if you have a caster of some sort, who has something like a Sleep spell handy.

[Damon_Tor]

Polymorph the children into adults.

Problem solved.

[Mad_Saulot]

Vengence Paladin talking to city watch after bloodbath:

"Those kids were indoctrinated by the big evil, they would grow up to be villains, I did your city a favour by purging them, what would the watch have done? Lock em up for a couple years maybe give them to foster families where they will be free to hone their evil skills in secret while creating their own shadow guild? No, I did the right thing, take these chains off me now! I'm a Paladin you cant arrest me!"

[xroads]

Noisy Brats!
Fifty noisy kids make it difficult to concentrate. Unless deafened, casters must make a concentration check (DC 10) every round on their turn.

Food Fight
Food is flying everywhere! Ranged targets receive a partial concealment bonus.

Witnesses!
From my experience, players are going to treat children as fair game. So I'd add some credible witnesses to the scene to discourage them.

[Âmesang]

…and somewhere in the distance Lord British is laughing.

[Calen]

If you think that the slaughter of children is NOT something your players will do.
5 lair actions per round. Each ones "uses" 5-10 children. They can be maintained or the children ordered to do a new action. If children are incapacitated then remove them from the budget of actions.

Dogpile: 1d4 out of 10 children succeed in clinging to the legs of a creature, reducing their speed by 5/10 feet per child. A child may be removed (mostly) harmlessly as an action.

Dance: Like xroads said, 10 Children dance around and sing annoying tunes to break the concentration of a single caster.

Tease: 10 children tease a creature giving them disadvantage on attack roles and ability checks.

Taunt: 10 children taunt a creature. Creature must make a DC X Wisdom saving throw or take the action that the children are encouraging. (Like charm these can't be harmful to the creature)

can't think of anything else right now.

[xroads]

Taunt: 10 children taunt a creature. Creature must make a DC X Wisdom saving throw or take the action that the children are encouraging. (Like charm these can't be harmful to the creature)


Oooooh. I like this one. But how about...

Little Bullies
As a lair action, the kids cast Vicious Mockery on all PCs.

[nakedonmyfoldin]

This is all going to boil down to your players... and what they're willing to do as characters.
You may have a... uncomfortable... bloody mess on your hands... that involves the slaughter of children.
Unless you allow for "subduing" / "non fatal damage" (which would be coming from your melee people, who would use the hilt of their swords, or the flat of their blades, to essentially try and knock out the children), or if you have a caster of some sort, who has something like a Sleep spell handy.

I’m fairly certain that they will use sleep or work around the kids. Knocking them out will be easy (1 nonlethal damage will work) but they will quickly realize that they need to focus on the boss. So I’m expecting these kids to function more like dangerous terrain or a Lair

[Mad_Saulot]

If there's one thing I've learned in 31 years of DnD, players are only slightly more restrained than a red dragon on crack, those kids are gonna die, if you dont tell them not to I guarantee your players will slaughter the lot, maybe saving one as a pet/slave.

[Tawmis]

I’m fairly certain that they will use sleep or work around the kids. Knocking them out will be easy (1 nonlethal damage will work) but they will quickly realize that they need to focus on the boss. So I’m expecting these kids to function more like dangerous terrain or a Lair

In that case - use them like Kobolds!
(Some great suggestions already...)

Pack Tactics. You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.
====
With that many kids, they're always going to have advantage! So that's a cool like thing...

And I love the idea of Vicious Mockery! That's a great idea, too!

I feel like xroads needs to make a custom monster in D&D beyond that is "Pack of Children."

[nakedonmyfoldin]

If the kids die, they die. I’ll have to take the campaign in a different direction but I’m not gonna make them bulletproof or tell the players you may not kill kids. So far, they’ve behaved in a pretty honorable way, at least with regard to killing innocents.

That being said, the vicious mockery idea is great. Maybe having so many kids nonmagically jeering at once can evoke that magical effect

[Honest Tiefling]

Look. I don't want to gang up on the OP, but...I am really worried about what the party might do.

Firstly, check their character sheets. Does anyone have the ability to accidentally cause an AOE? Explosives, enchantments on weapons that can't be turned off, anything of the sort? Remove any mind control from the boss other than controlling the children for this reason.

Consider letting charismatic characters have the ability to sway or trick the children. If they are determined not to murder the children, this is going to be their go-to if they have anyone in the party with a charisma of over 14. If swaying them won't work, consider letting them trick or distract the children.

Do you have ranged characters that don't use spells? A spell might fizzle, but a ranged character might feel frustrated that they can't fight because if they aren't okay with child murder, they probably aren't so okay with letting some arrows loose into a pile of toddlers. Even if there aren't rules for misfiring, it might be a little weird.

Personally, I would treat them as small sized characters. They have to be terrain to be difficult terrain and I don't think this party is letting athletic grown adults in armor stepping on children.

[furryblueelf]

You know the wizard is going to cast fireball...

[Sigreid]

Definitely be prepared for the party to kill the children.

[Mad_Saulot]

When are you planning on doing this? I'd love to hear the outcome ;-)

[Spore]

Are we talking "funny family comedy with kids tying the heroes's legs together in a Home Alone-esque scenario or are we talking baby armor (https://i.imgur.com/okvu4Qc.jpg)?

[nakedonmyfoldin]

Hahaha I love everyone’s concern. And I’ll reiterate that I am not concerned. I’ll try to update everyone, but the feel is very loosely this.

Enter “hideout”,
PC: release these kids you prick!
Prick: Never! I’m their family now. Run away while you can!
PC: Never!
Prick: Fine! Children bring those horrible people to me, bring mother a gift!

Urchins, kids, teens and tweens will swarm like brainwashed psychos trying to ensnare /pin down/attack with improvised weapons.

I really want to underline the chaos that this causes. There will be lots of “difficult terrain” because even though I know nobody is walking on kids heads, it’s still difficulty to move through a crowd. There will be lots of disadvantage and concentration checks too. Meanwhile, the boss who is kind of a glass cannon will be debuffing and firing spells from just out of reach.

[Zakhara]

My friends and I used to have an OP, 100% hypothetical boss dubbed the "******* Bugbear," who wore armour made by strapping living orphans to his body.

I would advise something like that. Have this enemy swaddle and carry children around, to appear as a patron and to make melee attacks a risky prospect.

[opaopajr]

This is actually a pretty well made villain, especially for 5e bounded accuracy. :smallsmile: It deals with the combat pillar by emphasizing the moral and social cost, while leaving the explore and social pillar wide open for creativity. :smallcool: I wonder if the players will even try another approach.

Enchantment is a hell of a magic school if used well. :smallbiggrin:

[Aprender]

*undead* children?

Cuz they're gonna be.

[Maelynn]

I really love the ideas that Xroads and Calen came up with. Hindering the players in their actions without causing any damage is exactly what I can see kids doing. Kids are annoying little buggers, especially if there's more than 2 of them. Having 50 of them in a cave... oh, dear gods.

You could have a look at swarms and their behaviour if you want to look at some more options.

Maybe you can have one of the kids cling to the leg of an unarmoured PC and bite them in the leg for 1 damage. Just because it's a brat.


I really want to underline the chaos that this causes. There will be lots of “difficult terrain” because even though I know nobody is walking on kids heads, it’s still difficulty to move through a crowd. There will be lots of disadvantage and concentration checks too. Meanwhile, the boss who is kind of a glass cannon will be debuffing and firing spells from just out of reach.

Great concept for a BBEG. In fact, my setting city has an orphanage - so at some point in the future, I might just nick your concept and insert some kind of Rat-Catcher of Hamelin type of BBEG where the party has to save the children.

Good that you know your party well enough to be convinced they wouldn't kill a child. Otherwise (or for any interested DM reading this with less faith in their players) you could've had one of the kids be someone's son and have a worrying (and quite influential) parent send the party out to rescue them. Not knowing exactly which kid you need, it's best to just keep them all alive so you can pick out the golden child afterwards.

[Deox]

Fan of the idea.

If you have access, the 3.5 Edition Book of Vile Darkness has an example villain called "The Dread Emperor". It is exactly this concept. Take a look for some really good inspiration.

[Sigreid]

I really love the ideas that Xroads and Calen came up with. Hindering the players in their actions without causing any damage is exactly what I can see kids doing. Kids are annoying little buggers, especially if there's more than 2 of them. Having 50 of them in a cave... oh, dear gods.

You could have a look at swarms and their behaviour if you want to look at some more options.

Maybe you can have one of the kids cling to the leg of an unarmoured PC and bite them in the leg for 1 damage. Just because it's a brat.



Great concept for a BBEG. In fact, my setting city has an orphanage - so at some point in the future, I might just nick your concept and insert some kind of Rat-Catcher of Hamelin type of BBEG where the party has to save the children.

Good that you know your party well enough to be convinced they wouldn't kill a child. Otherwise (or for any interested DM reading this with less faith in their players) you could've had one of the kids be someone's son and have a worrying (and quite influential) parent send the party out to rescue them. Not knowing exactly which kid you need, it's best to just keep them all alive so you can pick out the golden child afterwards.

Yeah, it's a cool quandary for the right party. I personally would be the guy who decides this is what Shatter is for.

[Quild]

I’m fairly certain that they will use sleep or work around the kids. Knocking them out will be easy (1 nonlethal damage will work) but they will quickly realize that they need to focus on the boss. So I’m expecting these kids to function more like dangerous terrain or a Lair

I feel like you're creating a difficult condition to overcame through a way you didn't even thought yourself.

Railroading would be => My players have to find the unique good solution
Good building of the fight => My players have to find a good solution among those I thought about
Bad building of the fight => I want to do this and see how they react

I only played 3.5 but I don't see how my party would have done with that.
- No crowd control
- Stunning 50 kids with non-lethal damages is just plainly boring

From your side, controlling 50 kids could be also a pain. I remember how a handful of skeletons took us hours to micro-manage and still were hard to macro-manage. Are you prepared to have your evening/night/day spent moving those pretty useless kids?

Because honestly, the most they can do is flanking. They're not going to stun the PC and carry them... Much less killing them.


Last but not least, do you feel like your players will have any fun in that? Find that fight fun? Challenging?

[Revaros]

Love this miniboss idea! Definitely putting it in the chest of interesting sidequests.

Anything to mess with my player's heads. :D

[stoutstien]

This encounter better be named: children of the swarm.

[bobofwestgate]

Oooooh. I like this one. But how about...

Little Bullies
As a lair action, the kids cast Vicious Mockery on all PCs.


My thought is if you are using the kids merely as a distraction and annoyance, the players might show restraint. But once the players start taking damage, such as from vicious mockery, the gloves will be off.

[Aprender]

If the players go full murder hobo, a perception roll of not 1 after the battle shows that the "children" were kobolds all along. That also allows you to turn the kids into devious distractors with all sorts of homebrew goodies. I agree with imposing disadvantages without damage from the kiddos.

[nakedonmyfoldin]

Yeah if they do any damage it will be 1 at a time. I’m thinking wooden swords, bites, and maybe like sharpened pencils/broken glass shivs.

I don’t plan on controlling each individual child either, I’m really just planning to use them almost like really bad weather or some kind of dynamic environment. If the pcs do end up finding ways to subdue some kids, I’ll arbitrarily reduce the amount of annoyance that’s caused. Maybe have the crowd act on initiative 20 and 10, if enough kids are subdued, it’ll switch to just one of those. I’ll try and be flexible with the ways to control the crowds, probably use a healthy dose of the fear mechanic. The last thing I want to do is make the players think the only solution is dropping the kids to 0 hp.

I’ve never gotten so much help from a GitP post, so thanks a bunch to everyone for input, I’ll keep you posted whenever this plays out, hopefully Sunday.

[Sigreid]

You could treat them like a swarm.

[opaopajr]

The last thing I want to do is make the players think the only solution is dropping the kids to 0 hp.

Actually I just realized that 5e has made "staying one's blade," "knocking unconscious" so much easier, so technically all the party has to do is wade into melee TWF and mow down children while always declaring Knock Out. :smallredface:

I am now saddened that mechanically the choice is so obvious. :smalleek: The best you could do is have the children remember being assaulted while enchanted (or conditioned into the cult) and then be upset. But most of the threat is mechanically gone, and even socially gone if they are a threat to themselves and others and need to be subdued. :smallfrown:

Knocking a Creature Out
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
(D&D 5e Basic. August, 2014. p. 76.)

I'm sad now. No threat of accidental death. :smallfrown: There is little to no RAW reason to not beat the children into submission. Sadness! :smallfrown:

[nakedonmyfoldin]

My hope is that by having sort of an Artillery role of a boss, and having so many children, it will become painfully clear that the best way to assuage the kids is to kill the leader. But if they want to beat kids down until they’re more comfortable to fight the boss, power to them, but word travels fast around town and a lot of folks could lose respect.

[Kyutaru]

Hansel and Gretel
This Lair action may be used when the boss is below 50% health. She scoops up and devours one of her precious children to heal for 5d8 health.

And now part of the fight is depriving her of children to eat. Let's see how they handle that one! :smallbiggrin:

[nakedonmyfoldin]

Hansel and Gretel
This Lair action may be used when the boss is below 50% health. She scoops up and devours one of her precious children to heal for 5d8 health.

And now part of the fight is depriving her of children to eat. Let's see how they handle that one! :smallbiggrin:

I love this idea in theory , but it really wouldn’t fit the boss. She really thinks she’s the shepherd for these kids that she “liberated” from their “abusive” homes.