Multiple "Racial" Templates on Racial HD Monsters

[GrayDeath]

Hello Playground!


As it came up when desiging an upccoming "In between Boss": How do multiple Templates that change racial HD interact?

Say I have a Base Creature with lots of preexisting HD; as a Giant or so, and intend to make him both a Half Dragon (all HD`s increase one die size, and so on) and a Half Fey (all HD to D6)?

Usually I would rule that "the better" HD-mod applies (and do so regardless if its a Player or a DM creature, reasoning is that the more powerful change would "stick").

But what if different aspects of the chosen HD offer one "best" aspect each?

Say your Creature would gain Dragon, Fey and another HD respectively, would one have to choose which applies, can only one apply, or would one cherry pick the best of each (dont think so, but ehy,a sking ^^).

Thanks in advance!

[MisterKaws]

RAW, the latest modification applies. So if you add half-fey to anything, no matter how tough, the HD drops to d6. But well, that's RAW, and if you're homebrewing for a campaign, you might just change it in case you think it's too weak.

[tyckspoon]

One of the few things I will recommend using Savage Species for is its type priority pyramid, which is meant to resolve exactly this kind of question; basically it presents a tiered arrangement of all the Types, and you use the features for whatever is highest on the pyramid. I recall Dragon being on/near the top, so once you hit Dragon you would likely not change types and associated features + traits again.

If you have multiple inherited templates, you could also just choose the order of application to be whatever turns out best, so Half-Fey (reset racial HD to d6s) Half Dragon (bump them up to d8.) Which might still be smaller dice than whatever their original type was, but still better off than d6s.

[GrayDeath]

One of the few things I will recommend using Savage Species for is its type priority pyramid, which is meant to resolve exactly this kind of question; basically it presents a tiered arrangement of all the Types, and you use the features for whatever is highest on the pyramid. I recall Dragon being on/near the top, so once you hit Dragon you would likely not change types and associated features + traits again.

If you have multiple inherited templates, you could also just choose the order of application to be whatever turns out best, so Half-Fey (reset racial HD to d6s) Half Dragon (bump them up to d8.) Which might still be smaller dice than whatever their original type was, but still better off than d6s.

Hmmm, so me boykotting Savage Species since....I dont know? might have proven a mjistake.
THank you, I will look up ,that Type pyramide!

[MisterKaws]

Though using the type pyramid (which was superseded by 3.5 MM) removes the possibility of using most templating shenanigans, like for example the Half-Dragon(Red) Were-Bloodtitan Half-Troll Black Dragon cheese

[GrayDeath]

Checked it, and it does. Huh....

Hmm, maybe thats why I never used it?

Dont matter, from now on I will use the Pyramid for "RAI Builds where we dont want to worry about too many fickly rules, and keep to the regular rules for everything else (when I am DM at the least).

[ShurikVch]

"The Type Pyramid" is outdated - there are no need to use it now.

Also, people, are you never heard about the Augmented Subtype (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#augmentedSubtype)?
A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.Thus, Giant with whatever combination of a Half-Dragon and a Half-Fey templates will get "Augmented Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#giantType)" subtype, d8 HD, ¾ BAB, Good Fort., and 2+ skill points - regardless of what's the current Type

[MisterKaws]

"The Type Pyramid" is outdated - there are no need to use it now.

Also, people, are you never heard about the Augmented Subtype (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#augmentedSubtype)?Thus, Giant with whatever combination of a Half-Dragon and a Half-Fey templates will get "Augmented Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#giantType)" subtype, d8 HD, ¾ BAB, Good Fort., and 2+ skill points - regardless of what's the current Type

Except most templates also override this by saying the creatures keep Hit Dice, BAB, Skills, Saves, and Special Qualities. And Racial traits are special qualities.

[ShurikVch]

Except most templates also override this by saying the creatures keep Hit Dice, BAB, Skills, Saves, and Special Qualities.On the contrary - they're confirming it!
If not for Augmented subtype, you would need to recalculate all that.

And Racial traits are special qualities, but Hit Dice, BAB, Skills, Saves are Racial Features

[MisterKaws]

On the contrary - they're confirming it!
If not for Augmented subtype, you would need to recalculate all that.
, but Hit Dice, BAB, Skills, Saves are Racial Features

Huh, they are. Still, most creatures get traits as special qualities.