Red Dead Redemption 2 on Alignment

[Beleriphon]

So I was thinking about alignment and Chaotic Neutral occurred to me that its generally speaking the jerk-face alignment. Much maligned because players things it the alignment of lunatics and Deadpool. But I realized something, Red Dead Redemption 2 actually has a great example of chaotic neutral alignment, in both action and philosophy. Dutch van der Linde is an armchair (horseback?) philosopher. If you ask him why he's an outlaw (you as the player never have to, there are several good speeches throughout the game that explain his outlook) he'd say because he wants to live according to his own rules, he wants freedom, he sees civilization as a barrier to freedom and true happiness; if he has to kill a few people, rob a few trains, steal a few horses to live free then he will. Dutch isn't out to hurt anybody, but that doesn't mean people don't get hurt. He'll protect his gang, they're his family, and he'll take new members in when it suits him. The gang is loyal because of Dutch's personal charisma and his ability to execute a plan reasonably well.

Why do you ask am I posting this in the 5E forum? Because 5E alignments are less descriptive, where CN basically says a character of this alignment follows their whims.

[Assenzio]

I think that alignment is one of the biggest flaws of RPGs.

Role playing games are all about interpretation of a character that can - and should - have his own complex personality.

Reducing an entire character to a 3x3 grid is very reductive imho, and Dutch is a good example of this. Black and white with only one shade of grey is not enough! (maybe 50? :smallbiggrin:)

[Beleriphon]

I think that alignment is one of the biggest flaws of RPGs.

Role playing games are all about interpretation of a character that can - and should - have his own complex personality.

Reducing an entire character to a 3x3 grid is very reductive imho, and Dutch is a good example of this. Black and white with only one shade of grey is not enough! (maybe 50? :smallbiggrin:)

I'm not going to debate the merits of alignment, but I've never seen it as reducing a character to 3x3 grid, but rather assigning a general outlook based on a series of selections. 5E does better with Bonds, Flaws and Merits.

Dutch is pretty clearly Chaotic Neutral, in a philosophical kind of way. Its how I think Chaotic Neutral's description in the 5E PHB should be taken to be read, rather than whims being a coin flip away from doing whatever. A Chaotic Neutral character and align their goals and make plans, and keep their word. But at a very basic level rankle at the thought of following somebody else's rules.

[Hail Tempus]

Dutch is Neutral Evil, at best. He does whatever he can get away with, and is really only really interested in himself.

Chaotic Neutral isn’t the alignment of characters who are willing to routinely rob and murder innocent people to get what they want. It’s the alignment of people who have no allegiance to anyone but themselves (and their close friends). Han Solo is Chaotic Neutral when we first meet him in A New Hope.

The characters in RDR2 are, generally speaking, evil. That includes Arthur, despite all of his rationalization.