Help Wanted With A Planar Plot

[Allistar]

Context (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B47nNhOSaLwpWdbmHMWaQfa-lU2qd2Y-iAjJ6TH8EZ0/edit)

So, how would you do a planar plot that focused around an elder god?

I'm a big fan of their original incarnations, the ones where they are so otherworldly that you would go insane if you tried to comprehend their forms let alone their motives. The problem comes when you have to give them a motivation, and a reason that they can't just take what they want when whey want it. This is currently the pickle I find myself in, but I'm not really sure how to fix it. I've tried to go with a more conventional style of villain writing, but i appear hit a road block of sorts. This is what I've come up with so far, but I'm really not sure about this.

Draft #1
For one reason or another, something gets the attention of the far realm and the old gods that dwell there (perhaps a planar alignment of some sort causes a beacon to be lit)

The elder god shows up and starts poking around the outer planes, starting with the lower planes.

The lesser demons and devils begin to go insane, and when the demon lords and arch devils try and figure out what's going on they are dominated by this old god. As a result cultists who worshiped demons and devils are being forced to work together under it's veil

The Yugoloths are the only ones who can really escape (although some decide to join up with the elder god), and they run to the material plane.

The angels see this as an invasion, but in actuality it's a distress call.

Debate breaks out between the angels on whether or not to strike them down

This is the perfect time for the elder god to "plant the seeds of dissent", so he tries to corrupt the most zealous of archangels (The archangel of war, the angel of justice, and the like)

Nobody can tell the difference since they've been going on about a crusade for the past millennium, and now that these demons have shown up it seems like as good a time as any to purge them and the mortals that brought them to the plane. The warning signs get a bit clearer when they start to mount the "Riders of the Dawn"

The other angels try and stop them, but their pleas fall on deaf ears.

In order to prevent a breaking of cosmic law the gods try and forcefully put a stop to them, thus beginning a civil war.

The effects are felt on the material plane by clerics and others who relied on gods for their powers. The power of these gods are weakening. (we're thinking about adding a mechanic in to reflect this, but we have no idea what it would do)

The players (who are semi/pretty well known...and starting at level 6) are called upon by these clerics or some other organization, because they are each local heroes or some other form of important figure in their respective areas.

Figure out what's happening with these cultists, and figure out why our powers are diminishing. Maybe you can get a lead at a place.... we'll just call it nearby town #3 since I cant come up with a name right now

Initiate adventure arc 1 where the players are trying to stop the servants of Fraz Urb'luu, and Geryon.

Not really sure what the followers of Geryon would really be doing, but I can definitely see the followers of Fraz attempting to kidnap local nobles or other high ranking officials at some sort of feast or ball and use them as a sacrifice to open a dungeon that would lead to something important. (like one of the magic items, or knowledge as to it's location)

Main thing is, I don't know what to do after this point, or what effect on the plot it would have. I find it hard to believe that their plans would be toppled so easily if a single building block were to be brought out from under them. I'm also not sure how the rest of the goals would be achieved, but I figure those are a bit far down the road...

I Dunno
This is all I've got so far, but for some delirious writing at 3:00 AM I'd say I'm kind of alright with this. Tell me what you think, tell me what I can change, tell me what you would do and so on.

[iTreeby]

In my view cultists should never be straight up insane. They should be who use an outside power for personal gain because the risks are minimal to themselves or they don't think an elder God is actually a concern for the material plane or they believe that the cause is justified.

Here is a reason why an Elder God could want to destroy all of reality: the God is asleep, the world is a dream and god wants to be awake. Maybe the cult doesn't know that they are risking the world, they think they can influence their lives in the dream. Maybe the cult believes the dream is a nightmare that needs to end. Maybe they are being deceived.


You need to convey existential horror. As an example, let's look at the ring of three wishes. Why does it matter? You need to explain in the story that it is special beyond merely being very useful. It's THE RING not a ring. If reality is a simulation being run in the corpse of a dead elder good, the ring is a debugging tool left over from the development stage that doesn'tffollow normal rules.

Idk if any of that make sense but I tried.

[Allistar]

In my view cultists should never be straight up insane. They should be who use an outside power for personal gain because the risks are minimal to themselves or they don't think an elder God is actually a concern for the material plane or they believe that the cause is justified.

Here is a reason why an Elder God could want to destroy all of reality: the God is asleep, the world is a dream and god wants to be awake. Maybe the cult doesn't know that they are risking the world, they think they can influence their lives in the dream. Maybe the cult believes the dream is a nightmare that needs to end. Maybe they are being deceived.


You need to convey existential horror. As an example, let's look at the ring of three wishes. Why does it matter? You need to explain in the story that it is special beyond merely being very useful. It's THE RING not a ring. If reality is a simulation being run in the corpse of a dead elder good, the ring is a debugging tool left over from the development stage that doesn't follow normal rules.

Idk if any of that make sense but I tried.

I didn't think I said that the cultists would go insane, but the idea was that the demons/devils they had their pact with were now under control by this elder god and now they were working towards it's ends.

As for the whole dreaming god thing, yeah I get it. I know the story of Azathoth and that reality is merely his dream, and I have played Bloodborne (although I don't recall a lot of lore about it). The problem being most elder gods in the Cthulhu mythos (or really any mythos) don't have motivations or, plots, or anything really. They're just unthinkable horrors that act as forces of nature beyond our comprehension. They never try and accomplish anything because they never have any reason to. Nothing catches their eyes in our world because what could us ants build that the great old ones couldn't. The natural flipside to this is the bloodborne versions of the gods, but I feel like that has a very concrete theme that cant really be re-created without strait up stealing it.

[Steel Mirror]

I actually think that Great Old One type threats very often do have a concrete, definable goal in fiction. They are Outside, and they want to Get In. That is, they have great, cosmic, timeless power, but the genre convention is that they have somehow been imprisoned beyond our reality or are otherwise unable to fully exert that power here in our reality. So they scheme and subvert and recruit followers here to remove whatever obstacles stand in the way of them crossing over.

I know that doesn't necessarily answer the overarching question of "what is the end motivation of the Elder Ones", but in terms of your question:


The problem comes when you have to give them a motivation, and a reason that they can't just take what they want when whey want it. This is currently the pickle I find myself in, but I'm not really sure how to fix it.It at least answers why they can't just take what they want immediately. The whole song and dance with the cultists and inciting conflict in the lower planes is all necessary to weaken the boundaries of reality, which is a necessary step in coming into this reality and accomplishing whatever they need to accomplish. That end goal doesn't even NEED to be defined, nor the motivation behind desiring it, because as you mentioned, "they are so otherworldly that you would go insane if you tried to comprehend their forms let alone their motives".

That said, you could get creative and actually give them some more concrete final motivations. It makes them less Otherworldly to attribute them with human motives, but that's not necessarily a bad move.

Some thoughts:
*They come from the distant, distant future, so far down the line in eternity that the multiverse has faded into entropy and eternal ennui. Their only escape from trillions of years of decline and oblivion is to travel back in time, to when the multiverse was young and teeming with life and conflict. But in the eons that have passed, they have passed beyond flesh, beyond magic, beyond insanity to beings that are simply incompatible with life as it was known in the early multiverse, so that they seem terrifyingly alien beings.
*The Old One is insatiably curious, and wants to understand everything about our reality, which is as alien to it as it is to us. It doesn't wish us any ill, really, in fact it wouldn't even understand the concept of malice. But like a scientist studying microbiology by ripping open bacteria cells to study the DNA instructions and proteins contained within, its methods of understanding are inherently destructive and corrupting, at least to us.

I'll try to come up with other ideas if neither of those sound good!

[Tawmis]

So I read the document you have... And here's some stuff...

Arc 1- Setup
Obtain Amulet of the Planes
An ancient god has awoken and found that other gods have "moved" in
This ancient god does not take kindly to these "new gods" siphoning 'prayers'
Due to his or her slumber this ancient god does not have a lot of power yet
To complicate matters, these young gods have more power due to having believers
The elder god knows that there's an Amulet of the Planes


- - At this point, Clerics and Paladins in the party, might start getting warnings from their respective deities about an "ancient enemy" has awaken

Obtain Ring of Three Wishes
Long ago, there was an ancient Ring of Three Wishes forged by (whoever) is your Dwarven God
The Ancient God attacks the Dwarven God, by ambushing him (or her) and learns of the location


- - Now all of your Dwarves (despite class) get an urgent message from their Dwarven God, that an ancient enemy has awaken

Kidnap/recruit Archmage
The Ancient God seeks out the most powerful Mortal Mage on the world and abducts him

- - Now the Wizard community is abuzz with the disappearance of this great Wizard, who has gone, uncharacteristically missing
- - They find some scribblings from said Great Wizard, about having visions of some great vessel of ancient magic visiting him in his sleep...

Secure the Lower Planes
The Ancient God, with the help of the Mortal opens a portal to the Planes of Hell
There, with magic that the Mage helps steal from the mortal world (more alarms!), the Mage who has been promised great power - helps the Ancient God "capture" the planes of Hades with Minor demons


- - The party is sent to go investigate cultist activity, where cultists have united under a new banner (The Ancient God)

Start civil war in Upper Planes
With the minor demons and the cultists on their side; the Ancient God wages war in the Upper Planes; using armies of demons against their masters; and having cultists seek out other cultists who worship said upper devils, in an attempt to sever their power connection
The party is now hearing about cultists warring against one another; which seems like a fine idea, until the blood of innocents get caught in the war (since several cultists of the upper planes hold positions of power in cities and towns; promised to them by these upper devils and demons


Build portal
Arc 2- Constructing or Building Something
Find location for Material Plane base
Construct a gateway

With the help of the wizard, and more demons and devils bending the knee - the Ancient God wants to build a portal to the "new gods" - so that his agents of demons and devils can attack and weaken them; while the united cultists begin a cooperative attack against Churches


Arc 3- Testing the Stuff
Attempt to create an avatar of the Great Old One
The abducted wizard agrees to be the Avatar of the Ancient God on the mortal world; and with his power should be able to take it...
However, the power is too much... and while loyal to the Ancient One, the Wizard is experiencing signs of Madness...


Planar portals appear randomly because of it
Rogue angels rampaging in the Material Plane
Emergence of Demon Lord and Prince of Hell

Arc 4- Doing the Thing
Tying up loose ends
Getting to the end
Convergence

The party has gained levels fighting cultists and low level demons; all which increase in levels and power; as well as other goons sworn to help
The final fight will come with fighting the Avatar of the Ancient One
If they can destroy him, they can sever his connection - and if they sever his connection - the demons and devils will revolt and attack the ancient one
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, until he is no longer my friend.

[Allistar]

I actually think that Great Old One type threats very often do have a concrete, definable goal in fiction. They are Outside, and they want to Get In. That is, they have great, cosmic, timeless power, but the genre convention is that they have somehow been imprisoned beyond our reality or are otherwise unable to fully exert that power here in our reality. So they scheme and subvert and recruit followers here to remove whatever obstacles stand in the way of them crossing over.

Maybe I haven't read enough about them, but from what I've got so far they seem apathetic to just about everything. The few that do actually have a personality or motivations like Nyarlathotep, or Hastur are so enigmatic that we can't really tell what they're up to (we can get a basic clue, but nowhere near the full scope). I suppose it's the writing easy button to just say "mysterious goal" and maniacally laugh, but I find it a bit lazy. It's just weird to give them a goal that involves the destruction of the multiverse and a return to the void without making them wayyyy to powerful for any narrative purpose and yet still an enemy that has the capability for defeat (textbook ludonarrative dissonance)


Some thoughts:
*They come from the distant, distant future, so far down the line in eternity that the multiverse has faded into entropy and eternal ennui. Their only escape from trillions of years of decline and oblivion is to travel back in time, to when the multiverse was young and teeming with life and conflict. But in the eons that have passed, they have passed beyond flesh, beyond magic, beyond insanity to beings that are simply incompatible with life as it was known in the early multiverse, so that they seem terrifyingly alien beings.
*The Old One is insatiably curious, and wants to understand everything about our reality, which is as alien to it as it is to us. It doesn't wish us any ill, really, in fact it wouldn't even understand the concept of malice. But like a scientist studying microbiology by ripping open bacteria cells to study the DNA instructions and proteins contained within, its methods of understanding are inherently destructive and corrupting, at least to us.

I really like these, especially the first one! Something about that incomprehensible feeling and terrifying alien feel gets my mind going. I also like the idea that he's just a scientist who's hungry for knowledge, yet he is so far beyond comprehension that nobody really knows what's going on.