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Hunterx
2019-07-05, 07:11 PM
I have been looking over this for a while and i see that Battle Dancer and Monk both get a poor rap. Being a martial artiest myself i love the idea of monks and Battle Dancer and think i have come up with something that will play to there strengths and improve their weaknesses. How ever i will admit this is a very specialized idea and not exactly 100% if it would tie all together as i think it will but i know it would drive the DM crazy with the mobility of the Char and the sure number of attacks it can get. So with that let us look into what i want to call the Sir Swingsalot

First Race: Xeph: Xeph is a psionic race and no there are no psionics in this build at all they gain a -2 Str and +2 Dex They have the burst ability that allows you to increase your speed to a max of +30 at level 9....Key feature

Traits: Quick: +10 Speed -1AC

This will make my speed 40 with a +10 that lasts 3 rounds for a 50 speed at level 1

2 Flaws to give 3 feats at level 1

Now the builds. (quick entry to Prc class )
Battle Dancer 5 Dervish 10 Battle Dancer 5
Feats: Lv1 Combat expertise (R) Dodge (R) Mobility (R)
Lv3 Weapon Focus unarmed strike
Lv6 Versitile Strike
Lv9 Two weapon fighting
Lv12 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Lv15 Greater Two weapon fighting
Lv18 Xeph clarity
BAB: 20 15 10 5,
Full TWF 18/18/13/13/8/8/3/3
With Clarity Active 16/16/16/11/11/6/6/1/1
With the dervish dance this can be done while moving your full speed now the part that will drive the DM nuts: Thousand cuts this will give you an attack sequence with clarity as follows
16/16/16/16/16/16/11/11/11/11/6/6/6/6/1/1/1/1
If they all hit that is 18 attacks all doing 1D10 damage+Str

Or would monk be better off in place of the Battle dancer ?

MisterKaws
2019-07-05, 08:00 PM
You can't take Dervish at level 6 because you choose the class before feats(see PHB page 58), and you don't qualify without Versatile Unarmed Strike.

And, of course, there's the worse problem: only those six +16 attacks are going to hit, and they don't even do that much damage. You've spent all your feats on TWF and now can't do damage, and anything at those levels has a DR so high you won't even manage to overcome it.

Now to fix the broken idea. I can give you a number of solutions to your issue. Though, to elaborate, I'd need to know what exactly you want in your character. Do you need it to be pure physical power(ergo, no Psionics)? Do you need it to have a machinegun-like number of attacks? Do you mind switching from Spring Attack to other similar tactics? Those would all change the answer.

As-is, your idea is quite a bit unsuited for play. If the DM throws anything a bit stronger, with a DR harder to match, you'll be almost useless. It would be a pain to balance encounters where your character can be useful while having others not utterly destroy the creature involved.

Also Monk can't make off-hand attacks with Unarmed Strike. They're explicitly forbidden from doing it.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 06:54 AM
You can't take Dervish at level 6 because you choose the class before feats(see PHB page 58), and you don't qualify without Versatile Unarmed Strike.

And, of course, there's the worse problem: only those six +16 attacks are going to hit, and they don't even do that much damage. You've spent all your feats on TWF and now can't do damage, and anything at those levels has a DR so high you won't even manage to overcome it.

Now to fix the broken idea. I can give you a number of solutions to your issue. Though, to elaborate, I'd need to know what exactly you want in your character. Do you need it to be pure physical power(ergo, no Psionics)? Do you need it to have a machinegun-like number of attacks? Do you mind switching from Spring Attack to other similar tactics? Those would all change the answer.

As-is, your idea is quite a bit unsuited for play. If the DM throws anything a bit stronger, with a DR harder to match, you'll be almost useless. It would be a pain to balance encounters where your character can be useful while having others not utterly destroy the creature involved.

Also Monk can't make off-hand attacks with Unarmed Strike. They're explicitly forbidden from doing it.

The Cha is build around having a high speed and the machine gun type attacks. Yes I understand that once per day you can over charge your machine gun and get the crazy 18 attacks. That to me is the fun of the build. Now this is without magic items at all.

Any ideas are good to look at maybe you have seen something I have not. So please let's see what you can come up with.

Unarmed strikes are not forbidden from being used off handed. It is the flurry that is but the flurry would be considered natural attacks and the unarmed would be with weapons and you can tie natural attacks and weapon attacks all together. The problem with monk is that their base attack is not great and would not give as many over all attacks.

I thought about the monk/ Psionic class/ dervish but there is no way I can get the dervish 10.

MisterKaws
2019-07-06, 08:16 AM
The Cha is build around having a high speed and the machine gun type attacks. Yes I understand that once per day you can over charge your machine gun and get the crazy 18 attacks. That to me is the fun of the build. Now this is without magic items at all.

Any ideas are good to look at maybe you have seen something I have not. So please let's see what you can come up with.

Unarmed strikes are not forbidden from being used off handed. It is the flurry that is but the flurry would be considered natural attacks and the unarmed would be with weapons and you can tie natural attacks and weapon attacks all together. The problem with monk is that their base attack is not great and would not give as many over all attacks.

I thought about the monk/ Psionic class/ dervish but there is no way I can get the dervish 10.

Natural Attacks don't get iteractives. That is a rule. You only get to break it if you have Rapidstrike. If you flurry, it's your primary attack and there's no way around it.

The problem here is that dervish is a complete trap. You can get the same effect of Thousand Cuts with a single Belt of Battle, which only costs 12000 gp. And it's arguably better because you can take any full-round action with it, and after every fight you can swap it for another one. Do you get it? The class capstone you're so desperate to get is superceeded by a cheap level 13 magic item. The movement can be easily replicated with Hustle/Quicksilver Motion/Travel Devotion. It's not hard to get either:


As a Monk/Ardent/Slayer with Tashalatora and Expanded Knowledge(Synchronicity) and Expanded Knowledge(Schism) plus Freedom and Conflict mantles, you can get far more than just that many attacks, and you can get that while having a bunch of psionic powers to back you up, and you also get to do it as long as your battery doesn't run out, and let me tell you, if you run out of PP with a character that gets to add Wisdom to everything, you're doing something wrong. And you get Psionic Lion's Charge for a far easier way to attack and move.
As a Swordsage/Warblade/Mo9 you get to do it every other round, and you also get 2d6 unarmed strikes with Superior Unarmed Attack, which are even better than your Battle Dancer because you went Dervish.. Plus you get Time Stands Still with that route, which is the cooler cousin of Thousand Cuts.
And then there's always Travel Devotion. Of course, while using it you won't be able to use other Swift Action boosts, but you can do it basically all day instead of just a couple times.



Want an even easier way of getting free movement? Argent Spider Entomanothrope. Free action Teleport every round. Lets you do all the other stuff I mentioned far more easily. If you get a permissive DM you can buy-off the LA too.

Vizzerdrix
2019-07-06, 08:53 AM
Im a fan of paladin of freedom-2/battlle dancer-1, with a sudden stunning weapon tossed on. Maybe a whip dagger for slashing reach.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 10:13 AM
Im a fan of paladin of freedom-2/battlle dancer-1, with a sudden stunning weapon tossed on. Maybe a whip dagger for slashing reach.

Paladin of Freedom is one of my Fav except our DM has decreed that paladins have to be some kind of lawful

So that screws paladin of freedom right out, how ever there is a class that gives that paladin like abilities trying to remember the name. Holy liberator that is it.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 10:31 AM
Natural Attacks don't get iteractives. That is a rule. You only get to break it if you have Rapidstrike. If you flurry, it's your primary attack and there's no way around it.

The problem here is that dervish is a complete trap. You can get the same effect of Thousand Cuts with a single Belt of Battle, which only costs 12000 gp. And it's arguably better because you can take any full-round action with it, and after every fight you can swap it for another one. Do you get it? The class capstone you're so desperate to get is superceeded by a cheap level 13 magic item. The movement can be easily replicated with Hustle/Quicksilver Motion/Travel Devotion. It's not hard to get either:


As a Monk/Ardent/Slayer with Tashalatora and Expanded Knowledge(Synchronicity) and Expanded Knowledge(Schism) plus Freedom and Conflict mantles, you can get far more than just that many attacks, and you can get that while having a bunch of psionic powers to back you up, and you also get to do it as long as your battery doesn't run out, and let me tell you, if you run out of PP with a character that gets to add Wisdom to everything, you're doing something wrong. And you get Psionic Lion's Charge for a far easier way to attack and move.
As a Swordsage/Warblade/Mo9 you get to do it every other round, and you also get 2d6 unarmed strikes with Superior Unarmed Attack, which are even better than your Battle Dancer because you went Dervish.. Plus you get Time Stands Still with that route, which is the cooler cousin of Thousand Cuts.
And then there's always Travel Devotion. Of course, while using it you won't be able to use other Swift Action boosts, but you can do it basically all day instead of just a couple times.



Want an even easier way of getting free movement? Argent Spider Entomanothrope. Free action Teleport every round. Lets you do all the other stuff I mentioned far more easily. If you get a permissive DM you can buy-off the LA too.

12000 may not be much for you and having to switch belts all the time is just stupid, you basically get to do the same thing once a day. I am a fan of the Ardent

The freedom and conflict mantels i do not see how they are to allow you more than 18 attacks all be it once a day. As a monk/ardent you will be focusing on buff powers mostly not blaster type powers so the powers to back you up are not realy there, they are there to buff you yes but not back you up.

Ok so Monk/Ardent/Slayer
Slayer requires track which is a crappy feat, to have to take, plus lose on manifester level

Belt of battle is garbage at 12000, the DM is fugal and does not give treasure out very good and 12000 at level 20 would be like 20% of our gold. so that is not an option.

MisterKaws
2019-07-06, 10:59 AM
12000 may not be much for you and having to switch belts all the time is just stupid, you basically get to do the same thing once a day.

12000 is cheaper than ten levels, for sure.


I am a fan of the Ardent. The freedom and conflict mantels i do not see how they are to allow you more than 18 attacks all be it once a day. As a monk/ardent you will be focusing on buff powers mostly not blaster type powers so the powers to back you up are not realy there, they are there to buff you yes but not back you up.

Synchronicity does. There's a bunch of handbooks on how to abuse it by nesting it into more Synchronicities. You can also take the Magic mantle and UMD your way into getting Celerity for more shenanigans. Dip Swordsage and you get to do Psychic Renewal shenanigans to spam their mid-level maneuvers with Synchronicity's Standard Action spam. It's really just a bunch of action multipliers.


Ok so Monk/Ardent/Slayer
Slayer requires track which is a crappy feat, to have to take, plus lose on manifester level

But it gives you full BAB. And Practiced Manifester is a thing.


Belt of battle is garbage at 12000, the DM is fugal and does not give treasure out very good and 12000 at level 20 would be like 20% of our gold. so that is not an option.

Then you should've mentioned that before. At level 20, a Belt of Battle is supposed to be about 1.5% of your wealth. That's on your DM, not on the game.

Still, look into what I've said then: something like Monk 1/Ardent 6/Slayer X/Swordsage 1/Slayer Y with Expanded Knowledge(Synchronicity), Tashalatora, Psychic Renewal, and Twin Power, I think. You might need to pick Human for bonus feats, because gish builds are always feat-starved. There's a bunch of Swordsage maneuvers that let you do multiple attacks in one round, in particular Tiger Claw.

To be honest you'll probably cap at around 12 attacks but with more sustainability, although you'll at least deal damage. With Dervish you'd be dealing 1d10+str... and Xeph gives a Strength penalty. Any enemy at that level is going to have DR10 at the very least, so you'd be hitting like a toddler.

pabelfly
2019-07-06, 11:09 AM
If you want to make a character that has lots of extra attacks, I'd take a look here.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127463-3-X-Extra-attacks-natural-attacks-AoO

Dervish isn't that great - you have to take three feats you don't really want to take to get in and you then have to take ten levels on top of that. There are plenty of better ways to get more natural attacks, and cheaper too.

Karl Aegis
2019-07-06, 11:20 AM
Your DM can make a pizza during your turn and not miss anything. 1d10+Strength is not good damage. Battle Dancer is not a good class. I punch things is not a good 20th level character concept.

Jowgen
2019-07-06, 12:38 PM
A Cha based unarmed fighter who goes for lots of attacks?

If you want to be able to make this work, you're gonna have to play a little dirty, rule-wise. You're a monk. You need all the help you can get.

First up, Martial Monk from Dragon 310. These guys get to add fighter feats to their Monk bonus feat list, which by RAW lets you ignore prerequesites. Use this to get access to higher level feats (arguably even epic ones) than you normally would. Skip straight to Perfect Two-weapon fighting, Whirlwind attack, or even better Improved Combat Reflexes with Robilar's Gambit.

Next, to get Cha to AC on a permanent base as a Monk, you'll need the Ascetic Mage feat. To qualify for it, you need spontaneous 2nd level spell casting. Magical Training + Precocious Apprentice can net you this. 3 Feats might be a big investment, but it saves you the battledancer class level, and having a couple of spells handy can add some nice utility. Plus Martial monk and being human, plus 2 flaws, really opened up your feat limit by quite a bit.

For Cha to saves, I recommend a dip into Witch Hunter. While the track feat can be bought via an item, you also need Magic Circle Against Evil to qualify, which you should be able to get via the Touchstone Feat, wherein attuning to the Mimshan's Curtain site (PlH) and getting the higher order ability should suffice (just never use it). Fits well thematically too.

Another Touchstone site to look out for is Oxyrhynchus, which can net you an extra attack, so it might be worth taking the feat twice.

To up your damage, the Gauntlet of Heartfelt blows from Dragon 314 adds your charisma to damage as fire damage, be it with weapon, unarmed strike or touch attacks. The Elemental Rime poison (CS) is relatively cheap at 200 a pop and can inflict Fire Vulnerability, which is an option.

Of course the best way to take advantage of having a lot of attacks is to look for sources of other flat damage. The best thing would be to have a Dragonfire Inspiration bard to buff you. That can get real ridiculous real fast.

Rider effects are also nothing to sneeze at. Knock Down is a great one, if you can fit it in. Sudden Stunning (via necklace of natural attacks) is amazing on a high-cha character and fits the monk theme. In terms of other weapon abilities, if I were you I'd save for the +3 Wrathful Healing, to get half of all the damage you deal back as health. Combos real well with Robilar's Gambit.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 12:47 PM
A Cha based unarmed fighter who goes for lots of attacks?

If you want to be able to make this work, you're gonna have to play a little dirty, rule-wise. You're a monk. You need all the help you can get.

First up, Martial Monk from Dragon 310. These guys get to add fighter feats to their Monk bonus feat list, which by RAW lets you ignore prerequesites. Use this to get access to higher level feats (arguably even epic ones) than you normally would. Skip straight to Perfect Two-weapon fighting, Whirlwind attack, or even better Improved Combat Reflexes with Robilar's Gambit.

Next, to get Cha to AC on a permanent base as a Monk, you'll need the Ascetic Mage feat. To qualify for it, you need spontaneous 2nd level spell casting. Magical Training + Precocious Apprentice can net you this. 3 Feats might be a big investment, but it saves you the battledancer class level, and having a couple of spells handy can add some nice utility. Plus Martial monk and being human, plus 2 flaws, really opened up your feat limit by quite a bit.

For Cha to saves, I recommend a dip into Witch Hunter. While the track feat can be bought via an item, you also need Magic Circle Against Evil to qualify, which you should be able to get via the Touchstone Feat, wherein attuning to the Mimshan's Curtain site (PlH) and getting the higher order ability should suffice (just never use it). Fits well thematically too.

Another Touchstone site to look out for is Oxyrhynchus, which can net you an extra attack, so it might be worth taking the feat twice.

To up your damage, the Gauntlet of Heartfelt blows from Dragon 314 adds your charisma to damage as fire damage, be it with weapon, unarmed strike or touch attacks. The Elemental Rime poison (CS) is relatively cheap at 200 a pop and can inflict Fire Vulnerability, which is an option.

Of course the best way to take advantage of having a lot of attacks is to look for sources of other flat damage. The best thing would be to have a Dragonfire Inspiration bard to buff you. That can get real ridiculous real fast.

Rider effects are also nothing to sneeze at. Knock Down is a great one, if you can fit it in. Sudden Stunning (via necklace of natural attacks) is amazing on a high-cha character and fits the monk theme. In terms of other weapon abilities, if I were you I'd save for the +3 Wrathful Healing, to get half of all the damage you deal back as health. Combos real well with Robilar's Gambit.

This all sounds fantastic and the DM has said all book are open so that is great but i do not know if that counts for dragons or not will have to find out.

heavyfuel
2019-07-06, 12:59 PM
This all sounds fantastic and the DM has said all book are open so that is great but i do not know if that counts for dragons or not will have to find out.

I'm gonna go ahead and suggest you don't ask. Asking the DM to allow Dragon Mag (especially super silly things like Martial Monks getting epic feats a level 1) is like asking Pandora to go and open that box of hers.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 01:18 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and suggest you don't ask. Asking the DM to allow Dragon Mag (especially super silly things like Martial Monks getting epic feats a level 1) is like asking Pandora to go and open that box of hers.

I did not say that but if dragons mags are allowed there is the beast within monk that deals with shifters and shifters are some of my fav races.

MisterKaws
2019-07-06, 01:23 PM
Getting PTWF at level 1 is gonna get you a book to the head.

Let me ask: which level are you starting at? If you're that desperate to hit a thousand punches in a round(and if the DM really allows any books), I may or may not have the thing for you. It depends on which level you're starting at, and also may or may not involve tentacles.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 01:36 PM
I just thought about something that is really silly and would drive the DM even more nuts with attacks and my god if it works out this will be so much fun. Taking the build i posted already and adding in the belt of battle that would be

16/16/16/16/16/16/16/16/16/16/16/16/11/11/11/11/11/11/11/11/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1

That is 36 attacks now if i can resolve these as touch attacks would be great

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 01:47 PM
Getting PTWF at level 1 is gonna get you a book to the head.

Let me ask: which level are you starting at? If you're that desperate to hit a thousand punches in a round(and if the DM really allows any books), I may or may not have the thing for you. It depends on which level you're starting at, and also may or may not involve tentacles.

I am looking at building and arranging the char right now we are starting at level 1 i started as a Marshal which a love but the DM has killed my char already once but has a silly rule that if you get healing before you are hit your Con stat you are ok and you do not die. I hate this fckn rule and it is stupid as hell but he does this stuff all the time, just like not using diplomacy intimidation and bluff the right ways. He dose not care what the CR is set at in the books he says they get a roll against it. I say you are ****ing with my build ass clown but whatever. You refuses to keep things as RAW like that or anything else as he thinks they are to strong but he throws maxed out HP monsters at us and higher DC than the team is able to deal with. So instead of us wiping i try to curve char that can deal with it.

Here is an example there are 3 in the party right now a dwarf paladin a human marshal and a psycic thief. There is a drow sorcerer coming in but because of the LA2 the player is sitting there waiting for us to reach level 2 to bring it in at a lv 0 char.

Any ways with the three of us we were fighting goblins a good level 1 enemy. except that there were 10 goblin fighters 1 goblin shaman and 1 goblin something.
Just the 10 goblin fighters are overpowered not including what the shaman and the other one were.

But some how we won and scared away the shaman and the other one except i had died.

So trying to arrange things so that i can go a direction to deal with the DM being this type of DM is where i have to try and complete things.

heavyfuel
2019-07-06, 01:51 PM
That is 36 attacks now if i can resolve these as touch attacks would be great

Since we're apparently going full munchkin here, Extended Wraithstrike the turn before will solve that. You can also Persist it

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 01:53 PM
Since we're apparently going full munchkin here, Extended Wraithstrike the turn before will solve that. You can also Persist it

OK maybe not full Munchkin maybe 36 attacks is to much

MisterKaws
2019-07-06, 02:23 PM
36 attacks doing 0 damage won't do much.

And if you're that angry at your DM, why not find another table? If you really want to piss off a DM at level 1, the easiest way is likely Anthropomorphic Raven Dragonfire Adept(don't pick Invocations with saves) with Entangling Exhalation. You get to entangle everyone every round while you fly from a distance away and they can do literally nothing. But if you do that he'll just start to push ranged creatures, flying beasts and maybe even ghosts at you.

If the DM just wants to stroke his own ego by making you all lose, you just walk away. If it's not fun, don't play it.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 04:18 PM
36 attacks doing 0 damage won't do much.

And if you're that angry at your DM, why not find another table? If you really want to piss off a DM at level 1, the easiest way is likely Anthropomorphic Raven Dragonfire Adept(don't pick Invocations with saves) with Entangling Exhalation. You get to entangle everyone every round while you fly from a distance away and they can do literally nothing. But if you do that he'll just start to push ranged creatures, flying beasts and maybe even ghosts at you.

If the DM just wants to stroke his own ego by making you all lose, you just walk away. If it's not fun, don't play it.

Walking is not an option as there are very few 3.5 tables around, i can not leave my friends to have to try and deal with him alone. I will just figure something out and the DFA you mentioned has given me an idea. Mongrelfolk DFA the higher con with the lower cha will make it look weaker than normal and with entangling breath that will be huge, plus i will use endure elements which will make my party immune to the effects of my breath. The true power will not come online till later on and it will be a bit of a shock to all.

So A DFA 11 i think is best and maybe even higher to 16 to get the dark invocations but i have to look at them and see how good they are.

I can take the dragon aura and double aura feats and, at 3 and 6 to get the effects of a marshal kinda, could take one level of marshal for the minor aura ability.

MisterKaws
2019-07-06, 04:46 PM
Walking is not an option as there are very few 3.5 tables around, i can not leave my friends to have to try and deal with him alone. I will just figure something out and the DFA you mentioned has given me an idea. Mongrelfolk DFA the higher con with the lower cha will make it look weaker than normal and with entangling breath that will be huge, plus i will use endure elements which will make my party immune to the effects of my breath. The true power will not come online till later on and it will be a bit of a shock to all.

So A DFA 11 i think is best and maybe even higher to 16 to get the dark invocations but i have to look at them and see how good they are.

I can take the dragon aura and double aura feats and, at 3 and 6 to get the effects of a marshal kinda, could take one level of marshal for the minor aura ability.

Why are you planning for level 10 when you're level 1?

And if all of them are your friends, why don't you all ditch the DM together and then just choose a DM among yourselves? You can take turns DMing. Lots of tables do that.

Hunterx
2019-07-06, 05:54 PM
Why are you planning for level 10 when you're level 1?

And if all of them are your friends, why don't you all ditch the DM together and then just choose a DM among yourselves? You can take turns DMing. Lots of tables do that.

Because my friend is friends with the DM, and he does not see the fact that the DM is as bad as he truly is but it is slowly coming around that he is seeing this.

MisterKaws
2019-07-06, 06:02 PM
Because my friend is friends with the DM, and he does not see the fact that the DM is as bad as he truly is but it is slowly coming around that he is seeing this.

Then show him and get out together. Nothing's worse than playing under a bad DM. Don't be a hostage to the table.

Hunterx
2019-07-07, 07:23 AM
Then show him and get out together. Nothing's worse than playing under a bad DM. Don't be a hostage to the table.

Again easier said than done. As there are not many 3.5 tables in our area. I dis like 4 as it sucks and 5 is like cross of 3.5 amd 4 which means I would like some of it but hate some to. My friend does not want to change systems at all as he does not want to learn a whole new system which I can understand.

MisterKaws
2019-07-07, 07:26 AM
Make one yourself.

Karl Aegis
2019-07-07, 11:03 AM
An unarmed, unarmored combatant isn't going to help you when the problem is you're being gunned down like hoodlums. 12 goblins in an encounter isn't exactly abnormal. The fact that you could count them at all is your DM pulling his punches.

MisterKaws
2019-07-07, 11:17 AM
An unarmed, unarmored combatant isn't going to help you when the problem is you're being gunned down like hoodlums. 12 goblins in an encounter isn't exactly abnormal. The fact that you could count them at all is your DM pulling his punches.

Well, they were fighting an EL6 threat with three Lvl1 players. Doesn't feel like pulling punches to me.

Hunterx
2019-07-08, 11:47 AM
Well, they were fighting an EL6 threat with three Lvl1 players. Doesn't feel like pulling punches to me.

Nope not punches pulled that i can see.

Hunterx
2019-07-09, 02:53 PM
I reading the Battle Dancer I think i have found something that is kind of the one catch that could make it an ok class. Yes it is not a wizard or cleric or a bard but it is a CHA based class and that ties in with so many things, but as stated i think i have found that little catch.

You see Battle Dancers no matter your size start out doing 1D6 damage and it increases at the levels stated, there is nothing that says you do less damage for being small ext and nothing that says you do more for being large ext.

So with that the build of
Race: Strongheart Halfling
Battle Dancer 5, Holy liberator 4 Exempler 4, Fist of the Forest 3, X4
would be ok i think

Darrin
2019-07-09, 03:30 PM
You see Battle Dancers no matter your size start out doing 1D6 damage and it increases at the levels stated, there is nothing that says you do less damage for being small ext and nothing that says you do more for being large ext.


You mean other than "Table 2-2: Small and Large Battle Dancer Unarmed Damage" at the top of page 28?

Hmm. Well, I guess you could argue the text doesn't mention the table at all, so "Text Trumps Table". But... that's kinda stretching something that's not exactly ambiguous as far as intent.

There are feats that can increase your unarmed damage. Improved Natural Attack will bump you up a step, as will Shape Soulmeld: Totem Avatar/Open Lesser Chakra: Shoulders. Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle) would normally be a "Gimme" feat at 3rd, but since you don't actually have monk levels, it doesn't help much unless you're small-sized at levels 16-20.