Re-flavoring Net + Crossbow = Kusarigama

[Meichrob7]

Nioh Screenshot (http://www.pushsquare.com/games/ps4/nioh/screenshots) showing the Kusarigama
https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1487/10/1487102589984.jpg
Confession time, I'm a little bit of an anime fan. I haven't seen every (or usually any) anime of the latest seasons and I've never tried to learn japanese, but you can bet your ass I've seen all of Naruto and Dragonball(The origional, Z, GT, and Super). One weapon that stuck out to me as cool whenever I saw it in an anime was the Kusarigame (Shoutouts to Hanzo from Naruto and Muraku from Gama). Its a really cool weapon because a) It's an actual way to use a scythe without being too edgy or impractical, and b) Its one of the only weapons that can emulate unarmed combat's ability to grapple an opponent.

If you don't know what a Kusarigama is, it's a long chain with a small hand scythe on one end and a weight on the other. In some anime or manga it will have two scythed ends or a spiked ball on one end, but from what I've found thats not really true to history. Its main way of attacking was to spin the end with the small weight around and then throw it at your opponent with some angular velocity so that it wraps around them and tangles them up. Then you move in with the scythed end and kill them as they're restrained (the real life meaning, no the D&D condition).

I remember being somewhat disappointed when the DMG section on reflavoring D&D weapons to eastern styled equivalents (page 41 btw) didn't really offer up any help to making a Kusarigama come to life in D&D. I totally forgot about my desire to fit the weapon into the D&D world until I remembered an old signature someone on this fourm had about their melee rogue who had crossbow expert and would walk up to people, throw a net on the
m, and then shoot them in the face. I cant for the life of me remember who that was but the whole "one hand for restraining and then attacking with the other" made me realize that the best way to reflavor something from "vanilla" D&D into the Kusarigama was actually by using two separate weapons, which in hindsight kind of makes sense.

So a rogue with a Kusarigama seems like a pretty cool and effective ninja. Sounds great but what are the issues? Well there's a whole list of problems that admittedly can be solved, but not for free.

Issue 1: The Net takes your whole action to throw and it's not a melee weapon so you can't follow up with an attack using a melee weapon in your offhand.
Solution 1: This is solved by using a crossbow in the offhand and taking crossbow expert. A crossbow also lets you attack from range which fits into the abilities of the Kusarigama, and with Crossbow expert you only need one hand which makes it more like the bladed end of the kusarigama that could theoretically be thrown one handed. Finally the ability to use the crossbow in melee range is useful because it synergieses with the base range of the net, and flavor wise with the fact that often you'd use the bladed end of the Kusarigama as a melee weapon to finish off the tied up targets.

Issue 2: The Net has a base range of 5ft and a long range of 15ft.
Solution 2: Take the sharpshooter feat. It sounds silly and unfortunate means you need 2 feats to even start using this build (so yay using VHuman again :smallsigh:) but since Nets are technically ranged weapons, it will let you use their max range of 15ft. If you don't take this feat then the build still mechanically works in a 5ft range but it becomes a bit disconnected from the idea of the Kusarigama. Sharpshooter also gives you a few bonuses for taking it, like ignoring cover (Maybe flavor that as using the chain to bend the weight/blade around whatever they hid behind), giving your hand crossbow 120ft of range (thats a long chain if you're still pretending to throw it), and allowing you to take the -5/+10 sharpshooter special attacks which become useful if you already have advantage on attacks and are using both action and bonus action to take crossbow shots since only one of the can be sneak attacks, so if you have a second one after hitting once, might as well make it do some damage.

Issue 3: Rogues aren't actually proficient with Nets. Shocker I know, but rogues can't actually use that many weapons.
Solution 3: Take a single level dip into fighter. Action surge is less useful for a rogue than almost anyone else so you won't be tempted to take any more figher levels (because once you've taken 2 levels might as well take 3 for a subclass, then might as well take 4 for an asi, and it goes on and on until you arent taking a dip and instead are splitting your levels). As a bonus you'll also gain proficiency in medium armor and the Archery fighting style which will give a +2 to your net attack rolls and your crossbow attack rolls. By missing a rogue level you lose 1.75 damage in sneak attack dice (1d6 = 3.5, you gain 1d6 every 2 levels, 3.5/2 = 1.75). However since you have sharpshooter you can trade accuracy for damage so you now have a conversion of damage from accuracy at a 10:5 or 2:1 ratio, so your +2 accuracy is somewhat similar to +4 damage, which is a lot more than the 1.75 you lose out on. The net proficiency is actually the biggest issue with the whole rogue kusarigama idea but I mention it here because It'd be awkward to reference the synergy with sharpshooter if I hadn't already explained why you need sharpshooter.

Issue 4: Nets can be broken but it'd be weird if your metal chain had an ac of 10 and 5 hp.
Solution 4: This is the only thing here that isn't strictly RAW (Since reflavoring to eastern names is technically allowed in any campaign with eastern influence and monks exist as a class in base D&D so...) but Xanathars mentiones making Adamantine melee weapons or sets of 10 amunition that can't be broken without magical weapons. The Xanathars rule doesnt mention ranged weapons but I assume that's only because usually there's no risk of the ranged weapon itself breaking and the RAI here is that any weapon could be made out of adamantine. The adamantine itself will cost 500gp and by making the weapon unbreakable you also get some mechanical bonus because that means the monster has to use a whole action to escape (and they will because its only dc10) instead of being able to slice out with a single attack (which is less than an action because most monsters have multiattack).

Issue 5: Bolts
Solution(?) 5: This is now getting further away from RAW issues but its the last thing I want to bring up. While you can keep track of invisible bolts and spend gold 'repairing your weapon" or something as your way of explaining the costs of the bolts you'd be buying, a much simpler way would be to ask the DM if buying 120ft of chain instead of buying bolts would be acceptable. 120ft of chain is equal to the max range of the crossbow (so the max range of your kusarigama's longest attack) and costs as much as about 1,200 bolts (10ft of chain = 5gp, 120ft = 60gp. 20 bolts = 1gp, 1200 = 60 gp). I'd make the argument that by the time you'd have shot off 1,200 bolts youll probably have gotten your weapon destroyed somehow (magic attacks or some acid perhaps) and will need to spend gold on more chain, therefore never really letting the player save gold on not needing bolts, just save the headache of keeping track of it.

Issue(?) 6: Cost.
"Solution" 6: So 500gp for the Adamantine net and 60 gp for the chain sounds pricey, isn't that too much to afford? For a level 1 character sure, but since you need Vhuman+Rogue4 for your two feats and one level of fighter, the minimum level for this character is 5, and even in a low magic campaign the DMG says starting gold for a level 5 character is 500+ 1d10x25, which works out to actually be pretty much the perfect amount to build the Kusarigama. In the end its not actually an Issue at all but I wanted to mention it here in case someone asked.



So in the end whats the build? Well lets assume standard array and PHB+Xanathars only as Standard array is the most restrictive and some groups (AL) have a rule where you can only use PHB+1 other book, and you need Xanathars for the Adamantine rule.


Variant Human (Crossbow expert)
Str 8
Dex 16 (15+1)
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 14 (13+1)
Cha 10
Str is dump, Dex and Con are needed for attacking and taking hits because you arent hiding or at much range. the rest is personal preference but if you're doing any investigating for traps with thieves tools proficiency, Inteligence is nice to have up a little.

Class levels
Rogue:Thief (4)
Fighter (1)
I start with Rogue levels because I like the proficiency they get more, but if you want to start with the fighter dip you'd get a little more health because the hit dice is bigger and you get to max your level 1 hit dice. Thief sublcass is taken because none of the subclasses have great synergy with this build and the second story work feature is nice if you're rocking the Ninja Aesthetic as your reason for using an eastern weapon.

Proficiencies aren't super important here and neither is backround, but if you are going thief than slight of hand is somewhat required and Acrobatics + Athletics will make your jumps even nicer.

Overall downsides.
You're investing a lot of gold in making this weapon if the DM doesn't just let you start with it
You do need to work with the DM for some of this which can be a pain if you have an annoying DM or one who doesnt really like you.
You aren't hiding regularly and are in melee as a class with a small hit dice
You dont get an ASI till level 9 (but you're getting better armor, bonuses to hit, and extra damage so that won't matter in combat)
You're going for an eastern style character (or at least weapon) and arent a monk.

Im mostly posting this to share the idea but any feedback on problems or synergies that I missed would be appreciated.

[Griswold]

What does rogue get you in this particular build? Is it just the "ninja" aspect?

I think you could simplify things significantly and still keep the kusarigama flavor by going straight Battle Master Fighter instead and taking the trip attack and disarming attack maneuvers. As for weapon choice, a whip (or a hand crossbow) work great.

If you want to keep the rogue/ninja flavor as well, see if your DM will let you play a Spell-less Ranger from UA. They get Battle Master maneuvers and are a bit more mobility/stealth focused than fighters. Horizon Walker gets you some scaling bonus damage like a rogue, too.

[Damon_Tor]

A Kusarigama is just a whip in one hand and a sickle in the other. I'm not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that.

[Lunali]

Another problem with your idea, a kusarigama would be unlikely to actually cause the restrained condition. More commonly it would either cause the target to be grappled or cause them to have disadvantage on attacks without the other effects of restrained.

[Meichrob7]

What does rogue get you in this particular build? Is it just the "ninja" aspect?

I think you could simplify things significantly and still keep the kusarigama flavor by going straight Battle Master Fighter instead and taking the trip attack and disarming attack maneuvers. As for weapon choice, a whip (or a hand crossbow) work great.

If you want to keep the rogue/ninja flavor as well, see if your DM will let you play a Spell-less Ranger from UA. They get Battle Master maneuvers and are a bit more mobility/stealth focused than fighters. Horizon Walker gets you some scaling bonus damage like a rogue, too.

Rogue is here because its the only class that would actually use the kusarigama if the weapon was a crossbow+net. They're pretty much the only class who doesnt have multiattack (which you cant have if you dont want the net to become a trash weapon) and still wants to attack. They also benefit from the fact that the net will grant them advantage on their attacks.

As for using the whip instead sure, you could even offhand a dagger because they're both melee. But the whole purpose of the Kusarigama is to wrap them up and then attack them. You can sort of do something similar with the tripping attack but prone is kindof a meh condition in 5E because of how easy it is to stand up, wheras the net is more restrictive as it makes the target restrained, and it requires a whole action to escape as opposed to only 1/2 of their movement. Prone is also different enough flavor wise that it makes it feel like much more of a reach to pretend its a Kusarigama and Battle master maneuver dice are a pain to ration if you have a dm who has even just the recommended level of encounters per day. Normally thats fine and just something you can deal with but if your main weapon needs them to function it becomes a problem.

The ninja flavor isnt super critical but rogue is again really the only class that actually benefits from using a kusarigama thats mechanically a net/crossbow. Since you kind of need to go rogue, are already using an eastern weapon, and dont have any amazing synergies or need for alternate Sneak Attacks, going Thief is just a kind of fun option thats not really any worse than the others and offers some cool alternate movement options.

[Meichrob7]

Another problem with your idea, a kusarigama would be unlikely to actually cause the restrained condition. More commonly it would either cause the target to be grappled or cause them to have disadvantage on attacks without the other effects of restrained.

Yes and no. You're right that it'd probably be best as some sort of gradient of efects like dis/advantage or disarming with restrained only applying in the most extreme cases. However at least in the few demos I've seen its not impossible to wrap someone's arms up, and while there's some class features that can apply some of those other effects that you're saying would be good, there's no weapon or combination of weapons that does. Well maybe theres some magic ones but no non-magical.

So you're not totally wrong but it kind of doesnt matter if we're talking only re-skinned weapons because the net-crossbow combo isnt something the kusari gama COULDN'T do and its closer than anything else without bringing in spells or class features.

[Meichrob7]

A Kusarigama is just a whip in one hand and a sickle in the other. I'm not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that.

Because thats close appearence wise but not function wise and a large part of what makes it cool is the function so thats something one would want to keep intact if they wanted to bring it to life in D&D. Its also not a lot more complicated, I could have just said "You can reflavor a net and crossbow into a kusarigama, its that simple" But I wanted to go more into detail on the potential issues and synergies with using that combo and explain my reasoning behind why I thought some choices were better than others.

[viaFAMILIAR]

I would say the actual weapon is as simple as a club x scythe, which scale if you're a monk. The rules say you can throw melee weapons with proficiency as improvised weapons. There's nothing stopping you from tying the two weapons with a cord. You could interact with one object on your turn, drawing the weapon back to you. Now as far as performing special attacks with it, I'd say you're locked into battlemaster maneuvers. I mean it would take a bit more than just simple training to pull them off, either 3 levels in fighter or the Martial Adept feat.

[Meichrob7]

I would say the actual weapon is as simple as a club x scythe, which scale if you're a monk. The rules say you can throw melee weapons with proficiency as improvised weapons. There's nothing stopping you from tying the two weapons with a cord. You could interact with one object on your turn, drawing the weapon back to you. Now as far as performing special attacks with it, I'd say you're locked into battlemaster maneuvers. I mean it would take a bit more than just simple training to pull them off, either 3 levels in fighter or the Martial Adept feat.

Okay but why would you? If you need to be a battlemaster to use the club and sickle and you're forced to turn them into improvised weapons, why wouldnt you just use the net and crossbow? Sure they (club+sickle+chain) look closer but they're mechanically very much not a good fit, and you can reflavor and retexture weapons according to the dmg, but you can't change their mechanics without getting into full homebrew territory. So why wouldnt you pick the weapons that mechanically fit and change their appearence and name, rather than making them look close but forcing yourself to go into two classes (or only be able to use them like once a day with the feat) and end up turning them into improvised weapons which are only d4.

[Meichrob7]

Just to clarify, the only reason I even bring up the multiclassing is because that is a character that would actually benefit from using this net/crossbow kusarigama. Anyone could use it but the net is kind of dog**** for everyone else and it gives the rogue a unique way to reliably gain advantage for sneak attack, and mess with the enemy action economy by forcing them to use their action to escape. You don't need to be a rogue for the combo to function, thats what makes it better than just using something else and battlemaster abilities, I only mention rogue because thats where it'd be most useful.

[Damon_Tor]

Because thats close appearence wise but not function wise and a large part of what makes it cool is the function so thats something one would want to keep intact if they wanted to bring it to life in D&D. Its also not a lot more complicated, I could have just said "You can reflavor a net and crossbow into a kusarigama, its that simple" But I wanted to go more into detail on the potential issues and synergies with using that combo and explain my reasoning behind why I thought some choices were better than others.

I just feel like you've pushed the limits on reflavoring beyond what I find tasteful. And frankly, it's not going to be an effective build; dual-wielding a whip and short sword with three levels in fighter for Battlemaster would fit your concept better both mechanically and in terms of verisimilitude.

[Meichrob7]

I just feel like you've pushed the limits on reflavoring beyond what I find tasteful. And frankly, it's not going to be an effective build; dual-wielding a whip and short sword with three levels in fighter for Battlemaster would fit your concept better both mechanically and in terms of verisimilitude.

So the flavor thing is whatever and your opinion. I completely disagree and think that restricting something thats purely a creative and flavor change is kinda against a lot of the core ideas of 5e, but I can admit that's just my opinion. But whats less opinion and more fact is a whip and sword battlemaster would mechanically not fit better in terms of real life accuracy and wouldn't be better from a metagaming perspective either.

Battlemaster gets 4 superiority dice that recharge on a short rest. Assuming we're doing 2 encounters per short rest you get to use your tripping attack or whatever a total of twice per combat. If you self impose restrictions so that you only do this trip with the whip then it'll last you two turns, otherwise youll blow all your dice in one turn because you're using two weapons so even before multitattacks are a thing you're attacking twice. Thats not a good thing because it means your weapon stops being a kusarigama and just becomes a whip and blade after 1-2 turns of combat. Another bad thing is the fact that you're tripping. While restricting might be mechanically a bit more than the restrictions youd face when wrapped in a kusarigama chain, tripping is much further from reality and is visually much different. Theres also the issue that theres never really a meta reason to use the whip and sword combo. Its at best a worse polearm master and at worst just using two suboptimal weapons. The Net/Crossbow build is different here because it actually lets the rogue do something it normally cant, apply a debuff that at the very least eats into enemy action economy, and doesn't significantly harm the rogue's damage or other skills in doing so.

So while I disagree with your stance on how much you can retexture things in dnd, I can still respect it as your own opinion. However the whip/shortsword combo is less true to how the kusarigama functions when compared to the net/crossbow version, and is a suboptimal battlemaster weapon(s) wheras the net/crossbow is maybe only better than other rogue weapons in niche cases, but its at least as good as a standard rogue weapon for the most part. Overall its mechanically inferior and the whole point of the thread was to some degree to talk about what weapon can best be reflavored and reskinned if it acts like a kusarigama so at least to me the visual appearance of a whip and sword doesnt really matter.

[viaFAMILIAR]

Okay but why would you? If you need to be a battlemaster to use the club and sickle and you're forced to turn them into improvised weapons, why wouldnt you just use the net and crossbow? Sure they (club+sickle+chain) look closer but they're mechanically very much not a good fit, and you can reflavor and retexture weapons according to the dmg, but you can't change their mechanics without getting into full homebrew territory. So why wouldnt you pick the weapons that mechanically fit and change their appearence and name, rather than making them look close but forcing yourself to go into two classes (or only be able to use them like once a day with the feat) and end up turning them into improvised weapons which are only d4.

Hmm, forget the club. I think the throwing hammer better fits the application. And maybe it's just my personal opinion that no class other than the monk has any business wielding a kusarigama.

But honestly, I like your approach on the matter. Strip everything of their preconceived imaginings and only look at their mechanical value, wether it be weapons or features. It's obvious you put a lot of thought into this weapon concept, making everything AL legal and pricing out an adamantium length of chain.

Sharpshooter: is perfect mechanically and thematically. Increasing the effective range of the net side of the weapon, up to what a kusarigama probably could reach. And the ignore cover effect, reflecting the weighted end's swing. However, 120' chain is unbelievable.

Crossbow Expert: does exactly what a Kusarigama should, attack at 5' with your bonus action. The only problem I have with this idea is making two ranged attacks; net = attack action @>5', crossbow = bonus action @>5'.

I think there should be an attack option with the weighted end, that's why I suggested the light hammer/sickle combo with martial arts damage die. Also restraining is a little beyond the capabilities of a kusarigama, more like disarming/tripping your opponent. Good work nontheless.

[Waazraath]

Tbh, with a concept like this, I wouldn't go the 're-flavoring' route; what you want is just too different from what is available in 5e, imo. I'd ask the DM for a custum weapon, and depending on how powerful you want it to be, maybe trade in a class feature (like the first 1d6 sneak attack) cause somthing like restraining or grappling and making an attack on the same turn would be powerful at earlty levels.

[JackPhoenix]

So while I disagree with your stance on how much you can retexture things in dnd, I can still respect it as your own opinion. However the whip/shortsword combo is less true to how the kusarigama functions when compared to the net/crossbow version, and is a suboptimal battlemaster weapon(s) wheras the net/crossbow is maybe only better than other rogue weapons in niche cases, but its at least as good as a standard rogue weapon for the most part. Overall its mechanically inferior and the whole point of the thread was to some degree to talk about what weapon can best be reflavored and reskinned if it acts like a kusarigama so at least to me the visual appearance of a whip and sword doesnt really matter.

If the point of the thread is to reflavor a weapon to act like kusarigama, whip and sword/sickle is much better fit than net and crossbow. It's not matter of visual appearance, it's the matter of how much you'll need to twist the rules to get anything even vaguely resembling kusarigama. Your combo doesn't do that either visually, or mechanically. The fact you have 6 issues you need to overcome in your OP (and I wouldn't exactly call your solutions successful), while the suggested whip/blade combo has only one issue (it's actually two weapons). It's also much more user-friendly, and works without specific, extremely niche build.

[Misterwhisper]

A few things:

1. The restrictions on attacking with a net only once, apply only to the net itself.

If you were a fighter 5 for example you could use the net to attack once and then attack with whatever else you have.

2. A net is not light and only has a range of 5 ft.

That means without at least one feat you are going to have to attack with disadvantage.

It is also a ranged weapon so you can’t bonus action attack with it even if you did have dual wielder.

3. In no way is a kusarigama anything like a crossbow.
However crossbow expert will deal with the range issue of being so close.

[JackPhoenix]

1. The restrictions on attacking with a net only once, apply only to the net itself.

If you were a fighter 5 for example you could use the net to attack once and then attack with whatever else you have.

Nope. If you attack with a net, you can't make any other attack with the same action. If it worked like any other thrown weapon (which also can't be used twice, for the simple reason you don't hold it once you throw it, but doesn't prevent you from drawing another weapon, or making unarmed attack, or using weapon in other hand), the special rule would be redundant.

[Meichrob7]

Hmm, forget the club. I think the throwing hammer better fits the application. And maybe it's just my personal opinion that no class other than the monk has any business wielding a kusarigama.

But honestly, I like your approach on the matter. Strip everything of their preconceived imaginings and only look at their mechanical value, wether it be weapons or features. It's obvious you put a lot of thought into this weapon concept, making everything AL legal and pricing out an adamantium length of chain.

Sharpshooter: is perfect mechanically and thematically. Increasing the effective range of the net side of the weapon, up to what a kusarigama probably could reach. And the ignore cover effect, reflecting the weighted end's swing. However, 120' chain is unbelievable.

Crossbow Expert: does exactly what a Kusarigama should, attack at 5' with your bonus action. The only problem I have with this idea is making two ranged attacks; net = attack action @>5', crossbow = bonus action @>5'.

I think there should be an attack option with the weighted end, that's why I suggested the light hammer/sickle combo with martial arts damage die. Also restraining is a little beyond the capabilities of a kusarigama, more like disarming/tripping your opponent. Good work nontheless.

I mean from a strict RAW perspective you can sharpshooter the net to deal 10 damage. It is a ranged weapon and I'm pretty sure that's the only restriction. Although attacking with the weighted end wasn't ever an actual thing, thats kind of an Anime trope, and while D&D is a fantasy game I'm trying to bring the real weapon into it not a fantasy version of it.

While you're right that 120ft of chain is absurd and you'd probably want to self impose some restrictions, do keep in mind that you could keep most of it wrapped up and stoed away and only have like 15ft loose on either end.

[Meichrob7]

Tbh, with a concept like this, I wouldn't go the 're-flavoring' route; what you want is just too different from what is available in 5e, imo. I'd ask the DM for a custum weapon, and depending on how powerful you want it to be, maybe trade in a class feature (like the first 1d6 sneak attack) cause somthing like restraining or grappling and making an attack on the same turn would be powerful at earlty levels.

Why and how is it too different from whats available? I feel like I just spent an hour explaining how its exactly what you want besides the physical appearance. Also trading a class feature? Thats some crazy stuff dude and if you do it in your games then power to you but thats some hella homebrew stuff. I feel like a lot of people are getting super hung up on the physical appearance but are kinda fine with making a totally new weapon or magic item which is super weird because retexturing weapons is something in the dmg as a straight up thing you can do, wheras anything you made up would be totally homebrew. And as much as restraining and making an attack might sound OP early, VHuman with a net and Crossbow expert + handcrossbow can do it at level one so its not something you couldnt always have done within the rules, its just that most people dont use the net because it eats your entire action.

[Meichrob7]

If the point of the thread is to reflavor a weapon to act like kusarigama, whip and sword/sickle is much better fit than net and crossbow. It's not matter of visual appearance, it's the matter of how much you'll need to twist the rules to get anything even vaguely resembling kusarigama. Your combo doesn't do that either visually, or mechanically. The fact you have 6 issues you need to overcome in your OP (and I wouldn't exactly call your solutions successful), while the suggested whip/blade combo has only one issue (it's actually two weapons). It's also much more user-friendly, and works without specific, extremely niche build.

So to reiterate, the "issues" I brought up for the most part arent acually problems with using a net and crossbow. They're only really issues in regards to using the weapon combo to its most effective and fixing some flavor issues. You technically don't even need a feat and could just hold an action to throw the net after their action and then shoot them in the face next round.

You say that I'd need to twist the rules a lot and maybe sure, but so what? Twisting the rules is only an issue in terms of needing to spend time to figure it out and needing a DM to okay it. I already spent the time to figure it out and since this combo isnt exactly overpowered and is mostly just a fun new way to play the rogue class I'm no too worried about a DM disliking the way I used the rules available. Because thats all it really is, a creative albeit convoluted use on long existing rules.

The issue with the whip blade combo isnt that it's two weapons. Its that its mechanically dissimilar from how a kusarigama would work, and the DMG and PHB are both pretty clear that appearance or flavor changes are a lot more within RAW than mechanical ones, so it makes the most sense to go for the combo that works like a kusarigama rather than one that looks like one.

You're right that a whip and sword are user friendly and easy to use. But you are easily not accomplishing the goal of using a kusarigama so whats the point?

[Meichrob7]

A few things:

1. The restrictions on attacking with a net only once, apply only to the net itself.
If you were a fighter 5 for example you could use the net to attack once and then attack with whatever else you have.

2. A net is not light and only has a range of 5 ft.
That means without at least one feat you are going to have to attack with disadvantage.
It is also a ranged weapon so you can’t bonus action attack with it even if you did have dual wielder.

3. In no way is a kusarigama anything like a crossbow.
However crossbow expert will deal with the range issue of being so close.

1: Phb page 148 "When you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to attack with the net, you can make only one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make" Note that it does not say "you can make only one attack with the net" it just says you can make only one attack so using another weapon wouldnt matter.

2: Yah Im aware of all of those things, which is why I said you'd need to take two feats to extend the range and to make a second attack. it being light doesn't matter because you using the offhand for the crossbow so the net can be in your main hand just fine.

3: Visually sure but I don't think that really matters. Mechanically its very similar besides having much longer range and I spend like an hour explaining how in the OP im starting to think you might have skipped over.

[viaFAMILIAR]

What if you used a net as an improvised melee weapon? Are you still disadvantage @5' with ranged weapon? Restrained still occurs since you only need to hit a creature.

[Meichrob7]

What if you used a net as an improvised melee weapon? Are you still disadvantage @5' with ranged weapon? Restrained still occurs since you only need to hit a creature.

Id argue no since at that point you aren't using it as a net, you're using it as an improvised weapon (but if you found a DM that was okay with that they'd probably also let you throw a greatsword and use GWM from range which would be pretty damn funny), and even if you could throw the net as an improvised weapon and still restrain, it wouldn't really be worth it because you'd lose the +2 to attack roll with ranged weapons you get if you have 1 level of fighter and 1d4 isnt worth a like 10% accuracy penalty.

[JackPhoenix]

The issue with the whip blade combo isnt that it's two weapons. Its that its mechanically dissimilar from how a kusarigama would work, and the DMG and PHB are both pretty clear that appearance or flavor changes are a lot more within RAW than mechanical ones, so it makes the most sense to go for the combo that works like a kusarigama rather than one that looks like one.

Except your combo doesn't work like kusarigama at all. Kusarigama doesn't use ammo, isn't a ranged weapon (that's mechanically significant, it's not just the matter of reflavoring), inflicting restrained condition the way net does doesn't make any sense for it, is harder to destroy than net (and no, you can't get adamantine net by RAW). You've suggested "solutions", but those solutions either don't solve the problem, or require mechanical changes instead of reflavoring, which is something you've been strictly against.


You're right that a whip and sword are user friendly and easy to use. But you are easily not accomplishing the goal of using a kusarigama so whats the point?

Well, neither is your net + crossbow, and whip and sword is still closer to the goal, so what's the point of attempting to twist the rules?


What if you used a net as an improvised melee weapon? Are you still disadvantage @5' with ranged weapon? Restrained still occurs since you only need to hit a creature.

Then you wouldn't add your proficiency and it would do 1d4 damage instead of restraining the target.

[viaFAMILIAR]

Then you wouldn't add your proficiency and it would do 1d4 damage instead of restraining the target.

So could a weapon be improvised as a net? Eg: throwing a whip reskinned as a bola?

edit: wouldn't you add proficiency if the improvised weapon resembles the actual weapon?

[Meichrob7]

Except your combo doesn't work like kusarigama at all. Kusarigama doesn't use ammo, isn't a ranged weapon (that's mechanically significant, it's not just the matter of reflavoring), inflicting restrained condition the way net does doesn't make any sense for it, is harder to destroy than net (and no, you can't get adamantine net by RAW). You've suggested "solutions", but those solutions either don't solve the problem, or require mechanical changes instead of reflavoring, which is something you've been strictly against.



Well, neither is your net + crossbow, and whip and sword is still closer to the goal, so what's the point of attempting to twist the rules?




Ill admit that Restrained isnt perfect because its a bit too restrictive, but I'd argue its better than prone which is far far less restrictive and mechanically a lot worse. You're right that theres some significant mechanical difference between either of these weapon combos and an actual kusarigama, the difference between the net/crossbow combo and the whip/sword combo is that the net/crossbow does things a kusarigama cant and you could just self impose restrictions, wheras the sword/whip has things it cant do that the kusarigama can and you can't self impose buffs.

If the adamantine thing really bothers you for some reason then just change the kusarigama to a rope with a weight and blade instead of a chain with a weight and blade that way it being able to be cut makes sense. It was to some degree a ninja weapon and a lot of ninjas were farmers compiling whatever they could to rebel. I'd put good money on there having been some with rope instead if it was an actual ninja weapon. I say if because admittidly my 5mins of google search gave conflicting results on who used it so I cant say for sure and as much as I'm willing to spend a ton of time writing responses on a fourm post about a kusarigama in a tabletop game, I'm significantly less willing to spend time researching the origins of kusarigama and who used it to debate weather its realistic to think that some of them might have used a solid rope instead of a chain.

You are right that the arrow thing is somewhat of an issue and would be a bigger one without crossbow expert making loading a negligible process, but that doesnt pose any mechanical problems and idk if you could tell but I'm mostly concerned about those because I strongly feel that retexturing weapons and ammo even to a crazy degree is much more in line with the rules and spirit of 5e dnd than trying to fudge mechanics to work around stuff that looks right.

[Meichrob7]

So could a weapon be improvised as a net? Eg: throwing a whip reskinned as a bola?

edit: wouldn't you add proficiency if the improvised weapon resembles the actual weapon?

An improvised weapon isnt you taking one thing and trying to make it work like another thing. Improvised weapons are basically "things harder than your fists that you hit people with because you dont have an actual weapon" like a mug is an improvised weapon, taking your greatsword and throwing it makes it an improvised weapon because you're using it like a pointy metal stick to chuck not a sword.

[viaFAMILIAR]

An improvised weapon isnt you taking one thing and trying to make it work like another thing. Improvised weapons are basically "things harder than your fists that you hit people with because you dont have an actual weapon" like a mug is an improvised weapon, taking your greatsword and throwing it makes it an improvised weapon because you're using it like a pointy metal stick to chuck not a sword.

Idk, by RAW, an improvised weapon is any object that can be wielded in one or two hands. If it resembles a weapon, it can be treated as such. Thus a flattened car bumper could be used as a greatsword (fallout reference), 2d6, heavy, two-handed. The improvised weapon should gain the properties of the actual weapon, even if it's special.

[Meichrob7]

Idk, by RAW, an improvised weapon is any object that can be wielded in one or two hands. If it resembles a weapon, it can be treated as such. Thus a flattened car bumper could be used as a greatsword (fallout reference), 2d6, heavy, two-handed. The improvised weapon should gain the properties of the actual weapon, even if it's special.

Well slap me silly and call me sally, you're right actually and I never knew that and now want to overuse it in all my games. I'd argue that for the net being improvised as itself if its close enough to entangle/restrain then its too close for the 1d4 to happen. as for the using a whip as a net thing, that'd be totally up to your dm but id personally say no. The only thing off the top of my head that could be reasonally improvised as a net would be maybe some cloth, say you were bullfighting and had a large square of red fabric and wanted to try and entangle the charging bull like it was a net.

[Nagog]

A Kusarigama is just a whip in one hand and a sickle in the other. I'm not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that.

I believe the OP wants the whip to be able to grapple the opponent rather than just deal damage, hence the change from whip to net.


As for the present issue, I'd just make it a homebrew weapon. Then again, I usually stay away from AL games because I like having RAW take backseat to the Law of Awesome (and Feasibility). For this weapon, I'd have it be something you need to take Two Weapon Fighting to weild effectively (whether its the feat or a class feature is up to you). First attack roll would take your roll to hit and contest it against the target's Athletics roll. If you win the contested roll, they are grappled with that end of the weapon, and have the associated penalties. As with grappling, they can continue to contest your roll with their own to escape on their turn, but until such a time as they succeed, you are free to attack them with the sickle side of it. The downside of using this weapon is that once you have an enemy grappled, you're essentially stuck within a 5 foot range of them until they free themselves or they die and you take the time to extract their body from your chain. It's an excellent choice for 1v1 combat, but in a brawl you'll make a sitting duck of yourself if you aren't careful.

[JackPhoenix]

So could a weapon be improvised as a net? Eg: throwing a whip reskinned as a bola?

Sure, you could use an object to serve as improvised net. Weightened sheet of cloth would be pretty much the same thing, if less durable.

Thrown whip doesn't resemble a bola (which doesn't exist as a weapon in 5e anyway).


edit: wouldn't you add proficiency if the improvised weapon resembles the actual weapon?

Yes, but packed up net doesn't resemble any existing weapon.


Ill admit that Restrained isnt perfect because its a bit too restrictive, but I'd argue its better than prone which is far far less restrictive and mechanically a lot worse. You're right that theres some significant mechanical difference between either of these weapon combos and an actual kusarigama, the difference between the net/crossbow combo and the whip/sword combo is that the net/crossbow does things a kusarigama cant and you could just self impose restrictions, wheras the sword/whip has things it cant do that the kusarigama can and you can't self impose buffs.

It's not matter of self-imposed restrictions. It's matter of mechanics that simply don't support the idea. And, of course, there are also things kusarigama should be able to do, but your combo can't, so it's not like your combo is any better.

As for the sword/whip, besides the whole two weapons thing... and your idea suffers from that even more, as I'll explain below, so that's a moot.... the "thing the sword/whip can't do" is inflicting restrained condition, which you've yourself admitted doesn't fit anyway. Disarming the target is perfectly possible with a whip, and that's much closer to real world (not anime) use of kusarigama than your idea. And improvised actions are a thing, so grappling someone with a whip is still just as valid as your refluffing.


If the adamantine thing really bothers you for some reason then just change the kusarigama to a rope with a weight and blade instead of a chain with a weight and blade that way it being able to be cut makes sense. It was to some degree a ninja weapon and a lot of ninjas were farmers compiling whatever they could to rebel. I'd put good money on there having been some with rope instead if it was an actual ninja weapon. I say if because admittidly my 5mins of google search gave conflicting results on who used it so I cant say for sure and as much as I'm willing to spend a ton of time writing responses on a fourm post about a kusarigama in a tabletop game, I'm significantly less willing to spend time researching the origins of kusarigama and who used it to debate weather its realistic to think that some of them might have used a solid rope instead of a chain.

It doesn't bother me, because I consider the whole idea ridiculous and would rather create a new weapon if I had to. But it's just one of the examples where your idea doesn't work.


You are right that the arrow thing is somewhat of an issue and would be a bigger one without crossbow expert making loading a negligible process, but that doesnt pose any mechanical problems and idk if you could tell but I'm mostly concerned about those because I strongly feel that retexturing weapons and ammo even to a crazy degree is much more in line with the rules and spirit of 5e dnd than trying to fudge mechanics to work around stuff that looks right.

Loading property isn't a problem if you have only one attack anyway. Ammunition property is: you still need two weapons to reload after every shot, even if you can do it more than once per turn. And as it is still ranged weapon, it interacts with various mechanics that mess with ranged weapons (like wind, Deflect Arrow and some spells and magic items) that wouldn't be a problem for melee weapon... and conversely, it ignores things like Fire Shield or similar monster abilities that affect melee attacks. There's also the issue that ammo can not only run out (and no, your 1200 bolts or 120' long chain isn't reasonable for many reasons, like weighting at least 120 lb for chain (more for crossbow bolts) where that's the suggested character's max encumberance), but can also be destroyed or lost in various ways. Same with the net... there are many ways where you would lose net (not just destroying it, but also if you or the enemy escapes combat) which wouldn't make sense if it was melee weapon.

[Meichrob7]

It's not matter of self-imposed restrictions. It's matter of mechanics that simply don't support the idea. And, of course, there are also things kusarigama should be able to do, but your combo can't, so it's not like your combo is any better.

As for the sword/whip, besides the whole two weapons thing... and your idea suffers from that even more, as I'll explain below, so that's a moot.... the "thing the sword/whip can't do" is inflicting restrained condition, which you've yourself admitted doesn't fit anyway. Disarming the target is perfectly possible with a whip, and that's much closer to real world (not anime) use of kusarigama than your idea. And improvised actions are a thing, so grappling someone with a whip is still just as valid as your refluffing.


Loading property isn't a problem if you have only one attack anyway. Ammunition property is: you still need two weapons to reload after every shot, even if you can do it more than once per turn. And as it is still ranged weapon, it interacts with various mechanics that mess with ranged weapons (like wind, Deflect Arrow and some spells and magic items) that wouldn't be a problem for melee weapon... and conversely, it ignores things like Fire Shield or similar monster abilities that affect melee attacks. There's also the issue that ammo can not only run out (and no, your 1200 bolts or 120' long chain isn't reasonable for many reasons, like weighting at least 120 lb for chain (more for crossbow bolts) where that's the suggested character's max encumberance), but can also be destroyed or lost in various ways. Same with the net... there are many ways where you would lose net (not just destroying it, but also if you or the enemy escapes combat) which wouldn't make sense if it was melee weapon.

1) So in terms of things the Kusarigama does that the net/crossbow doesnt, what exactly are those? Because while restrained is a bit oppressive, it does in fact do all the things a grapple would do. I'm not saying you're wrong but you cant just say that and not give any examples.

2) Again you keep bringing up the fact that a sword/whip is two weapons as a flaw when I never said it is and obviously don't think it is. Disarming is only a thing as a batlemaster and you say its much closer to real life but in the few times I've seen demo videos the person has been wrapping up their opponent's arms, and disabling their ability to use the weapon that way, not ever directly ripping it out of someone's hands. I've also seen a few videos where it is used to wrap around someone's neck or legs so I figured restrained is something that covers all of that. I'd be genuinely interested to see any examples of someone actually using it to full out disarm someone so could you tell me where I could find an example of that? It seems to be the basis of your whole argument and sounds pretty cool so I'd love to see it.

3) You bring up a lot of valid points that I admittidly dont really care about at all but I can see why someone would and how it would be an issue for them. I suppose that in some ways the whip/sword is better. It certainly needs less suspension of disbelief. However my main issue is that you need to use a specific class (battlemaster) for it to work, and even then its still only 4 times per short rest, so an average of twice per combat. At that point you dont have a weapon thats a Kusarigama you have a character build that can use the kusarigama two times per combat. It'd be like saying that a warlock with a longsword could call it a lightsaber because they can make it glow with magic power when they smite (I know paladins can smite too but warlock's smite ability is closer in limitations to the battlemaster's dice). Now I also gave a whole character build instead of just a weapon/feat combo, but that was simply an example of how to use the weapon most effectively.

If you have a DM who'd let you bend the rules and make a new weapon or grapple with a whip then great, you have the freedom to do so and you're right that it would probably be better than the combo I'd thought up. However if you're getting so bogged down in rules that an adamantine net can't exist because the adamantine weapons section doesnt mention ranged weapons, then I really can't see how you're going to be okay with giving the property of one weapon to another and giving it reach (because grappling is something unique to unarmed combat and is really powerful, and doing it at a range is kina busted against a medium or small creature).

At the end of the day you could be right that your combo is better, I don't think so but I can admit I might be biased, but It doesnt really matter because you either need to be a) bending a couple rules that are pushing things enough that I cant see every DM agreeing to them, or b) making a character build that fits the purpose of a kusarigama instead of just some weapons and feats. Your idea is a good alternative if someone wants to have a character using a kusarigama and I wish I'd thought of it or seen it earlier because it seems like something fun to play if you go battle master or get the dm to agree. But because your build needs a specific class and my version just needs a feat, one doesn't invalidate the other since they have different requirements. In a game where the DM doesnt allow feats then yah, Whip/sickle battlemaster all the way.

[Meichrob7]

I believe the OP wants the whip to be able to grapple the opponent rather than just deal damage, hence the change from whip to net.


As for the present issue, I'd just make it a homebrew weapon. Then again, I usually stay away from AL games because I like having RAW take backseat to the Law of Awesome (and Feasibility). For this weapon, I'd have it be something you need to take Two Weapon Fighting to weild effectively (whether its the feat or a class feature is up to you). First attack roll would take your roll to hit and contest it against the target's Athletics roll. If you win the contested roll, they are grappled with that end of the weapon, and have the associated penalties. As with grappling, they can continue to contest your roll with their own to escape on their turn, but until such a time as they succeed, you are free to attack them with the sickle side of it. The downside of using this weapon is that once you have an enemy grappled, you're essentially stuck within a 5 foot range of them until they free themselves or they die and you take the time to extract their body from your chain. It's an excellent choice for 1v1 combat, but in a brawl you'll make a sitting duck of yourself if you aren't careful.

So your idea is 100% a cool magic item, and I dont play AL either, but I'm starting to realize that maybe the way my group plays is different from how most people here play. We tend to try and stick within the mechanical rules of the game because for the most part you don't need to homebrew things if you can make full use of whats available. Its a lot of problem solving to try and make existing rules work in unintended ways to do the thing you want and thats something we all enjoy. We also for the most part are much more inclined to totally change the appearence of something to use it in places it otherwise wouldn't thematically fit, rather than making something new. Its a total preference thing but when we were learning the game that seemed to be what the DMG and PHB suggested was more in line with the intent of the 5e rulebooks.

Also side note, a bugbear could kind of do what you're saying too. Ofc he'd have to use his own arms to do it but mechanically its kind of what you were describing.

[GloatingSwine]

A Kusarigama is just a whip in one hand and a sickle in the other. I'm not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that.

Not really. Part of the point is that the two are connected parts of a single weapon.

I'd do something like a weapon that can optionally attack as a sickle for 1D4 slashing without reach or a flail 1D4 bludgeoning with reach.

The flail can be used for the Trip action or the Disarm Opponent action. (because historically that's what it was for, entangling an enemy's weapon or legs so you could safely close and slit their throat with the sickle).

[Lunali]

Yes and no. You're right that it'd probably be best as some sort of gradient of efects like dis/advantage or disarming with restrained only applying in the most extreme cases. However at least in the few demos I've seen its not impossible to wrap someone's arms up, and while there's some class features that can apply some of those other effects that you're saying would be good, there's no weapon or combination of weapons that does. Well maybe theres some magic ones but no non-magical.

So you're not totally wrong but it kind of doesnt matter if we're talking only re-skinned weapons because the net-crossbow combo isnt something the kusari gama COULDN'T do and its closer than anything else without bringing in spells or class features.

It is entirely possible to wrap someone's arms, giving them disadvantage on attacks. This does not, however, immobilize them, which is the other part of the restrained condition.

Any version of this is going to require DM approval, I would suggest trying to create a new weapon with homebrew options for attacks instead of trying to force it into existing ones.

[Damon_Tor]

But whats less opinion and more fact is a whip and sword battlemaster would mechanically not fit better in terms of real life accuracy...

Okay, I'm going to stop you right there.

Let's be real clear about something: you aren't attempting to model a real-life kusarigama, you're attempting to model an anime kusarigama. I'm not telling you that's bad or wrong to want to emulate anime, I just want us to be real clear on what it is you're looking for. A kusarigama is a whip or a flail. That's it. That's all it is. It's not special or magical because it came from Japan.

Look up some videos of actual live-action humans using a kusarigama: it is used almost exclusively to disarm and grapple. It does not have an effective range of more than 10 feet. They do not bind arms and legs. In other words, mechanically speaking, a battlemaster fighter with a whip and sickle better models the real-life functionality of a kusarigama. Beacuase in reality a kusarigama is just a sickle and whip/flail.

To address the mechanical issues:


...and wouldn't be better from a metagaming perspective either.

Battlemaster gets 4 superiority dice that recharge on a short rest. Assuming we're doing 2 encounters per short rest you get to use your tripping attack or whatever a total of twice per combat.

As opposed to the net you get to throw once? When you throw a weapon, you've thrown it. It isn't in your hand anymore.


If you self impose restrictions so that you only do this trip with the whip then it'll last you two turns, otherwise youll blow all your dice in one turn because you're using two weapons so even before multitattacks are a thing you're attacking twice. Thats not a good thing because it means your weapon stops being a kusarigama and just becomes a whip and blade after 1-2 turns of combat.

And after you throw your net, your crossbow is still just a crossbow. Do you have another net? Did it also cost 500 gp?


Another bad thing is the fact that you're tripping.

Or disarming. Or forcing movement. Or any of the other things a battlemaster can do. And things a Kusarigama should be able to do, for that matter.


While restricting might be mechanically a bit more than the restrictions youd face when wrapped in a kusarigama chain, tripping is much further from reality and is visually much different. Theres also the issue that theres never really a meta reason to use the whip and sword combo. Its at best a worse polearm master and at worst just using two suboptimal weapons.

It's about being able to effectively control your space. Wielding a polearm, an enemy can move 5 feet away from you without presenting an opportunity attack from your weapon (you could make an unarmed attack, but it's unlikely to be effective unless you've made an investment in unarmed attacks) but while wielding a whip with a different melee weapon, the enemy doesn't have that option. It deals just 1 damage less each turn than a standard two-shortsword dual wielding build. I won't pretend this build (or any dual-wielding build) is optimal, but you've set a real low bar for yourself in terms of optimization while comparing other options to things like polearm master. Compared to your build, we're dealing significantly more damage because (a) both weapons do damage and (b) both weapons can apply sneak attack when one attack misses and (c) we get to add 1d8 4/short rest.

There is also a major mechanical problem with your build, and that's reloading the weapon. Crossbow expert means you don't need a bonus action to reload, but it does not absolve you of needing a free hand to do so. Thus, you cannot load it while holding the net. This is the same reason handcrossbow+shield builds don't work. The crossbow must already be loaded when you throw the net as per Crossbow Expert's conditions. Thus, you cannot load it as a part of the bonus action you take to fire it because you do not get that action at all if it isn't already loaded. Taken together, this means you'll need to spend a bonus action reloading your crossbow sometime after you've already thrown the net, which eliminates any advantage in action economy you might have gained yourself. Your first turn this works fine: we can presume you enter combat with the crossbow already loaded. But every turn thereafter you can either throw a net or fire your crossbow, you can't do both.

[Meichrob7]

Look up some videos of actual live-action humans using a kusarigama: it is used almost exclusively to disarm and grapple. It does not have an effective range of more than 10 feet.

They do not bind arms and legs. In other words, mechanically speaking, a battlemaster fighter with a whip and sickle better models the real-life functionality of a kusarigama. Beacuase in reality a kusarigama is just a sickle and whip/flail.

There is also a major mechanical problem with your build, and that's reloading the weapon. Crossbow expert means you don't need a bonus action to reload, but it does not absolve you of needing a free hand to do so. Thus, you cannot load it while holding the net. This is the same reason handcrossbow+shield builds don't work. The crossbow must already be loaded when you throw the net as per Crossbow Expert's conditions. Thus, you cannot load it as a part of the bonus action you take to fire it because you do not get that action at all if it isn't already loaded. Taken together, this means you'll need to spend a bonus action reloading your crossbow sometime after you've already thrown the net, which eliminates any advantage in action economy you might have gained yourself. Your first turn this works fine: we can presume you enter combat with the crossbow already loaded. But every turn thereafter you can either throw a net or fire your crossbow, you can't do both.

So yah most of your points are pretty valid (especially in regards to the problems with the net) so I cant really say much besides "yah fair point I guess" the, only ones I'd like to quickly adress is these three ^

1) Yah in real life when you get wrapped up by a chain, calling it grappled would be an accurate description. The problem is that the Grapple condition in DnD is somewhat unrealistic in my opinion. If someone is grabbing you its more restrictive than just making you unable to move. Ive admitted a few times that restrained is a bit much in terms of what It would do in real life but honestly not by much. Remember acording to WoTC a normal net can be thrown at someone and restrain them. Wrapping them in a bit of chain isn't that far from a net. Sure in real life a chain wouldn't be that restrictive but neither would a net. In regards to the range thing sure, but the only way to make it not melee range (5ft) is to use sharpshooter to give it 15 which I dont think is that bad considering the superhuman abilities of the average D&D character. If you're talking about the crossbow having more range then yah, thats way out of line but the crossbow is there because it can kind of do what the kusarigama blade does, not because its the exact same. Ill freely admit that the ability to throw the bladed end anywhere near as far as a crossbow shoots is 100% anime kusarigama stuff. Idealy the net would be a melee weapon with thrown and you could use a dagger in the offhand but its not so crazy range crossbow seemed the best.

2)In reality a kusarigama is basically a whip/flail and sickle. I 100% agree, the issue is that the D&D whip and flail don't act like real life whips and flails. They aren't the only weapons like that tbh (I'm pretty sure a greatsword would have reach if we were talking actual advantages of a greatsword vs a normal sword) but those two apply here in regards to why I don't just pick the two weapons that literally make up the kusarigama.

3) Thats actually not true. I don't doubt that your copy of the PHB says that the crossbow needs to be loaded, mine does too, but if you check the latest Errata (or probably older ones because its not new this version of the errata so its been there for a little bit) you'll see this little gem "Crossbow Expert (p. 165). The word
“loaded” has been removed from the third benefit" The third benefit in question is the one regarding the ability to make an attack with a crossbow as a bonus action, meaning now it doesn't need to be loaded ahead of time.

[Meichrob7]

It is entirely possible to wrap someone's arms, giving them disadvantage on attacks. This does not, however, immobilize them, which is the other part of the restrained condition.

Any version of this is going to require DM approval, I would suggest trying to create a new weapon with homebrew options for attacks instead of trying to force it into existing ones.

I mean thats a fair opinion and if its the style of your play group then sure. My group personally leans much more towards bending existing rules towards the extreme before even considering straight up adding in things. A lot of us enjoy the problem solving aspect of it so admittedly we might take it further than is practical. It would argue that to some degree you have to consider the fact that it's being imported into dnd in regards to the restrained condition. Theres a lot of things that give conditions that force restrictions realistically they couldnt do. Like in my mind grapple should be more like 1/4 speed and disadvantage on attacks. Im fine with a chain wrapping up someone and restraining them because WoTC is fine with you chucking a net on a charging horse and that restraining it.