Corran
2019-07-06, 08:33 PM
Here is an old build.
Concept: Great Weapon Master
Class: Paladin (Vengeance) 6/ Sorcerer (Shadow) 7
Race: Variant Human
Final HP: 10 + 5d10 + 7d6+ 3*13 = 101
Final AC: 19 (Plate + Defense), 21 (with haste), +1 with Blade Mastery (Reaction), +5 with the Shield spell (Reaction)
Start Stats: 16 - 8 - 15 - 8 - 8 - 16
Final Stats: 16 - 8 - 16 - 8 - 8 - 16
Feats: GWM, Resilient (CON), Blade Mastery (UA)
Fighting Style: Defense
Paladin
Level 1: Bane*, Hunter's Mark*, Bless, Command, Cure Wounds
Level 2: Misty Step*, Hold Person*, Aid, Lesser Restoration, Magic Weapon**
*Oath Spells
**Retire this once you get your hands on an actual magic weapon, or if an ally can and is willing to cover for it when it's needed.
Sorcerer
Cantrips:
Level 1: Shield
Level 2: Darkness*, Blindness/Deafness, Mirror Image
Level 3: Haste, Fireball,
Level 4: Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, Banishment
*Darkness is not a known spell, you can cast it through your eyes of the dark feature though by spending 1 sp instead of spell slots.
Spell Slots: 4(1st) 3(2nd) 3(3rd) 3(4th) 2(5th)
Sorcery Points: 7
Metamagic
Quickened Spell... You want to use extra attack as frequently as possile. So, for almost everything really, as long as you have the sorcery points to use this. For more details look at build concept.
Twinned... Prime candidates are haste, greater invisibility and to a lesser extent polymorph.
Hound of Ill omen (not an actual metamagic)... Prime candidates are banishment and polymorph. On subesequent rounds after you use this, you can combine it to great effect with spells like command, blindness/deafness and hold person. More details at build concept below.
The bad news first.
This guy can burn through his resources extreeeeemely fast, and moreso than most other sorcadins. He has too many good options to use his sorcery points with (no matter how much I tried to confine him to only the absolutely optimal picks), that you will find yourself turning spell slots into sp more often than you would like (and that can hurt your ability to upcast spells a lot, so be cautious). For the same reason, I suggest restricting smiting to only when it is absolutely necessary (ie need to bring an enemy down asap) or when you crit (and that's bound to happen more often than what is usually the case).
In fact, this is the exact level (ie level 13) when this problem of managing resources is at its peak for this guy. Cause this is the exact level when the ratio of expensive (but mandatory to the function of the build) spells and sorcery points is at its worst possible state, as far as the sorcery points are concerned. Every level hereafter (and every level before), managing resources is going to be more and more easy, not only because every level from now on is going to be taken as a sorcerer (so both our spell slots and sp increase at a maximum rate), but also because we will start having access to spells that will help us win encounters with minimal expenditure of resources (most classic example, animate objects - a real lifesaver when it comes to managing sorcery points). So expect this problem to become less and less troublesome as the levels go by from this point forward.
One final note, regarding where this build is lacking, has to do with battlefield control. While you are not completely devoid of options in that department, you do lack some very important spells such as web, hypnotic pattern and the like, and you also dont have access to any serious control-y channel divinity that other types of sorcadins have. And while I repeat, you do have a few tricks that make you exert some battlefield control (that will be detailed below), it is not your strongest area and your best bet is possibly getting in the face of enemies and making them focus you just because you can hurt them a lot (having always advantage on OA's due to blade mastery, and thus being able to use GWM with them regardless of how you use your concentration or vow of enmity, and also the ability to stack smites on those OA's, is probably a good deal of stickiness though).
This is where the bad news stop though.
Now let's see how this build is supposed to work.
GWM sorcadins will usually want to choose between devotion and vengeance for their paladin oath, if they aim for an optimal build that is. While there is an obvious lack of synergy between VoE and spells like greater invisibility and darkness (as advantage does not stack), there are enough benefits to going the vengeance path that one might miss at first glance. And upon closer inspection, one would also see that greater invisibility and darkness dont overlap that much with VoE (and that is because VoE is NOT for every battle, and thus darkness and greater invisibility can act as substitutes to VoE).
Now, I dont mean to say that the vengeance oath is absolutely better than the devotion one, for GWMaster sorcadins, but here are the pro's to going vengeance over devotion (or rather, with VoE over sacred weapon):
1) VoE takes a bonus action to activate, instead of an action which is the action economy cost of sacred weapon, and that means that when you do use your channel divinity, you are not obliged to spend sp to quicken a self buff during the first round of combat (and you always want to self buff during the first round of combat), you can just use it at no cost to sp by casting it with your action. And what is more, you can also twin it should you choose to (that refers to using haste). So the vengeance sorcadin has the option to either save on sp, or to twin buff during the first round of combat when he uses channel divinity, as opposed to the devotion sorcadin, who is obliged to quicken buff only himself every time he uses his channel divinity.
2) The advantage from VoE is bound to amount to more than the +3 that is in all likelihood the bonus that sacred weapon will grant an optimized devotion sorcadin.
3) VoE and haste is the only reliable and self sufficient way for a sorcadin to have both advantage and haste on, at the same time, and under most occasions this is going to be better than any other combination of channel divinity and a concentration spell, as far as GWM'ing is concerned. Such a GWM sorcadin may not hit as hard as an optimized vengeance paly, but the fact that you can twin haste is probably (depending on party comp, though all you really need is either a rogue or another GWM or SS) more than enough to compensate for the dpr difference.
When to use VoE: Ideally, as often as possible, as it does not expend your precious resources. Practically, when one of the enemies you are facing is noticably stronger than the rest.
VoE is up
When you are using VoE, you have two options for your concentration: Bless and Haste.
Bless is cheaper (actually, as cheap as it can get). Do not neglect it though just because haste is more flashy. Bless still has its uses, and they do not restrict themselves to when you only want to economize your resources. You should always pick bless over haste if one of the following applies:
a) The target of your VoE has a very high AC. Then bless will amount better dpr than haste would, per resource unit expenditure, and very likely better dpr overall as well.
b) When you know that the enemy has a special attack that can result in you and your allies taking a LOT of damage (typically, a dragon's breath). Bless is not only preferable because losing conentration on it hurts a lot less than losig concentration on haste (not only due to being stunned, but also because of the misspent resources), but also because it will boost your saves against this particular attack (if that attack does target a save, they typically do). Yes, you have an awesome CON save (you have paid for it with resilient), but do you really wanna risk losing a whole turn against the dragon. Particularly if you have twinned it? And at such a great cost you paid to activate it? The risk is yours to take ofc, but I say stick with bless to be safe.
c) Last but not least, when you want to save on sp and spell slots. Bless is quite cheap and still is an awesome spell. Do not neglect it.
Haste is best used against your VoE target, when bless does not best apply as per the above. Extra points if the target of your VoE is a bag of HP with a low-ish AC, in which case dont forget to twin it to include the another GWMaster, or a Sharpshooter, or the rogue. Extra useful when you really want to go nova without relying on save or suck spells (such as hold person/monster), as it allows for more attacks per round on top of which you can smite, and more attacks rolled with advantage means more critting, and thus double smiting. Boosts your AC, your horrible dex saves and adds to your mobility, as well as it allows you for an attack during the first round you used for buffing. I will also mention it here again. OoV paly's get more from haste than you, but your edge is that you can twin it to include an ally, and that is a big deal. When haste applies for usage, it will most certainly apply for twinning it too. So as long as you have just one ally who can benefit heavily from it, dont pitty the sorcery points and go ahead and twin it. Just dont get too comfortable with it and forget using bless, be smart about which one you will use (yeah, better go back and have a second read at the bless section just above).
When VoE does not apply
Then, you are probably facing a bunch of equally powerful enemies. In which case, you can rely for your GWM'ing in any of the following conecentration spells: bless, darkness, haste, greater invisibility.
Bless and haste I mentioned in the above paragraph, though I will make an extra mention about haste. Prefer to use haste when you have another source granting you reliably advantage, as the extra attack profits more from having advantage. That is when you make the best use of haste. So, if you are not using VoE, and you dont have advantage that will last for the encounter via some other way, then better stay away from haste and focus on one of the rest 3 concentration options (ie bless, darkness, greater invisibility).
Darkness and greater invisibility work pretty much the same, with the difference that darkness may have an added side effect, that is not as bad as most people would assume. In fact, there is a great chance that the side effect has a positive net for your party, and it is not by chance that you are also equiped with the spell blindness/deafness (more on that later though). Anyway, I wont go into analyzing how darkness works and how it doesn't (as it is a whole new topic entirely and as people dont always agree on that subject), but if your party is not particularly harmed by you using it, stick with it (over greater invisibility) for most such fights against multiple opponents, as it is cheaper than greater invisibility. Both of these spells work even better if you have a rogue ally, particularly a rogue ally that fights in melee, even more so if he is also an arcane trickster, though you will have to twin greater invisibility in that case for the rogue ally to profit. You can also twin greater invisibility to include a GWM or a SS, though an aforementioned rogue clearly takes priority. If you manage to pull off a darkness with an appropriately upcast and sufficientlly successful blindness/deafness spell, then everyone in your party is instantly a rogue!!!:smalltongue: This last bit works better against low CON (or rather non-high CON) enemies. It is not perhaps the most optimal use of resources, but it can be quite effective and hillarious when you pull it off. Try to see if you can get an ally do the blindness/deafness part, as you do not want to spend any actions not attacking (GWM), and quickening spells cannot carry you forever. Teamwork is more than a motto afterall.
What else is there that you can do regarding your GWM'ing?
Well, the classic hold person and smite routine, that's for sure. My suggesion is to mostly avoid this, not only because hold person takes up concentration that you would be better off using with another concentration spell, but also because ths trick works significantly better for S&B sorcadins with extra attack, than for you. That happens for several reasons that I will not go into, suffice to say that your need to spend concentration AND sorcery points elsewhere, and the risk you take by using the -5/+10 from GWM (or alternative, the opportunity cost you invoke by not taking that -5/+10 risk with your normal attack sequence) do not make this trick good enough to spam. Still, there will be corner cases when this will be useful, and although it is not a something that absolutely ties with GWM'ing, I though I should mention it here, since the most basic ingredient of that hold+smite recipe is the extra attack (and quicken, of course), which you are bound to have since you are afterall a GWMaster. When you do use that gimmick however, always quicken and alway upcast by at least 1 level hold person. You really dont want to go into spending spell slots and more importantly, sorcery points, only for hold person to not affect a single enemy. Upcasting it means we drastically increase the chance of it landing on at least someone, and that is all we need in most cases. If the poor sap of humanoid manages to survive a whole round paralyzed (or if you targeted multiple targets with hold person and there is at least one still alive and still paralyzed by next round), you can always get a bonus action attack via the GWM feat due to critting.
Another way to make a good use of your GWM'ing skills, though again, not necessarily an efficient use of resources, is to use quicken command (perhaps even upcast @ level 2 to increase the chances of it landing on at least one enemy) your adjacent enemy(ies) to flee from you. Due to blade mastery you do have advantage on OA's, and that pairs well with GWM'ing, as does getting reactionary attacks. Now, as I said, this is not necessarily an efficient use of resources, but if you are fighting against something that hits really hard and seems like having a poor wisdom save, then go ahead and use this. Extra points if you are using bless with your concentration (that will add to the hit chance of that OA). Beware not to use this if you are sourrounded by several enemies, as in such cases it is usually best to save your reaction to use with the shield spell.
You can also quicken blindness/deafness before attacking an enemy against whom you do not have advantage, but this is a last resort kind of thing and it is not recommended. It is usually much better to have an alternative way for gaining advantage, one that will last longer and will be overall cheaper than quickening round after round. This spell is mostly in our spell list because of how it can combine with darkness. But in some very situational cases, especially when you are using hound of ill omen, this combo might apply, so keep it in mind for when everything else that is supposed to give you advantage is not working.
Twinning a BB and usng GWM on both of these attacks, then misty stepping away if no other ally of yours is adjacent to any of the enemies you targeted, might just not be worth the resources spent, but oh well, you can do it if you want to. Perhaps with a very good hit chance it would be worth it, especially the higher level you are (then again, I expect that GWM is best not applied in such a tactic, and that means big opportunity cost for something that expends a lot of resources).
One last tip. Since you will be attacking with advantage very often, critting relatively frequently is to be expected, and when you crit you can make a bonus action attack cause of GWM. So try to make sure that you are first attacking, and then quickening spells, as you do not want to crit/kill and find that you already used your bonus action for the round.
I will not go over what makes you a good tank. Ok, I will, but very briefly, you should know that already. Good AC, spells that improve your AC (like shield, greater invisibility, haste, darkness), good saves (aura of protection, resilient con, haste helps with dex saves when it is on), etc etc. You are not as great in any of the above as most S&B sorcadins (at least as S&B sorcadins that aim for at least 6 levels in paladin), but you have a few more tricks, that most conventional tank S&B sorcadins would lack (or would not make as a good use as you will). And successfully combining darkness with blindness/deafness can even make you and your allies within darkness untargetable.
And here it is, that extra little something that adds to your tankiness: Strength of the grave.
This does not work the same for every sorcadin that go with shadow sorc origin. This works best for those shadow sorcadins that chose resilient CON as a feat and who also have aura of protection, and it is far more likely for a GWM shadow sorcadin to have both of those. At this level (ie 13), our CON save is sitting at a +11. And this is to improve with our proficiency bonus (and with potential cha bumps, though they are not very likely to happen, due to prioritizing strength). There is no sorcadin, or sorcerer (in fact, there is no one) that can make better use of this, admittedly very powerful, feature, than us. Enjoy.
We might not have warcaster+BB, but our OA's are solid nonetheless, due to blade mastery + GWM.
Panic buttons
Quicken mirror image (costs 2 sp, takes a bonus action, probably wont last long)
Quicken polymorph (same as above) - Polymorph serves another primary function in this build, but you can always use it as a panic button, I guess. Myself, I think I would prefer taking my chances with strength of the grave, than spend resources on quickening self polymorph. Too big of an opportunity cost, and I have paid well for strength of the grave. Still, the spell exists in your known spells so be sure to know of that use if the need ever arises. If both you and an adjacent ally are low on hp, twinning polymorph can be quite useful. You may not be able to keep your concentration on it for very long, so only do this when you are really desperate.
Now, I would normally not indulge in making a GWM sorcadin a good debuffer, since he is already busy using his actions with extra attack, and his concentration with spells that help with GWM'ing. But.... getting access to such a powerful feature like Hound of Ill omen, practically forces us to equip our spell list with the best debuff options out there.
And the best ones that we can get our hands on, are polymorph and banishment.
Both target a different save (wis and cha respectively), and they are both awesome! They are equal if not straightforward better than GWM'ing, and they complement your martial prowess wonderfully. Banishment can also be cast with higher level slots (that you have a-plenty) for best results. The dynamic added to your build by simply having this origin feature and these two spells, is enormous! And the best thing is, that even if they dont stick with your first casting (though with the enemy rolling saves with disadvantage, and with your choosing wether to hit a cha or a wis save, what are the chances?), you can always try again next round (in fact with quicken, so you dont miss on GWM attacks - how perfect is that!), and the enemy will again roll with advantage, as long as the hound is adjacent to him (dealing some damage while at it).
You can always use hound of ill omen with hold person, blindness/deafness and command, but it will be rarely be worth it (there might be some situations though here and there). Probably this is something to keep in mind once you get into a higher level, when you will have more spell slots and sorcery points. For now, it is just better to use it with just the big guns (banishment, polymorph).
Using darkness along with blindness/deafness can be all sorts of amazing, if you pull it off (use it against ninjas, not against brutes - the fact that they wont be able to hear allows for you directing your allies inside the darkness without them noticing it, so even if they hide, you can give away your position by talking/ giving your allies ''directions'').
Reminder: Hound of ill omen and twinned (and quickened), all compete severely with each other for how you will use your sp, but as I said in the beginning, every level hereafter this is going to become less of a problem (as advancing in sorcerer, till you eventually become 6/14, you will get more and more slots, sp, but most importantly, some very powerfull spells that will allow you to win encounters without using much of your spells slots -aside from just one high level one- and your sorcery points; all you need will be to concentrate on such a powerful spell -eg reverse gravity- and let your GWM'ing do the rest).
Aura of protection, Bless, haste (twinned), and greater invisibility (twinned), as detailed in the GWM'ing section.
Perhaps polymorph, thought this refers to edge cases, as detailed in the panic buttons under the tanking section.
In short, you can be great at buffing (usually it will be you and your most suited for the spell in question -haste or gr invisibility- ally).
You are only limited by your sorcery points and spell slots (which you can turn into sp) at this level, though with the main focus of the build being at efficiently GWM'ing, I expect that buffing will not be that much affected (instead debuffing might take a blow, for now, and might be handled more carefully, and delivered when it really matters and when it would really make a difference).
Tip (just in case...): Polymorph: Mostly intended for its offensive use along with hound of ill omen, but if the bad guys engaged your back row and the party's wizard and rogue are in trouble, you can always drop whatever else you were concentration on and turn them both into T-Rexes.
Lay on hands (30 - and it will stay put): Use it outside combat, or all in one go during combat, but eeeeh, you dont want to miss on attacks due to GWM.
Cure wounds (hopefully there will be a healer in the party, but just in case - you have better uses for your slots though)
Aid: Seriously under-rated spell. Better than using the slot on smiting. Use it. The more you stay up, the more GWM attacks you get to make.
Lesser restoration (quicken): Always prepared. Situational, but when you need it, better use this with quickened than spend an action on lay on hands.
You will only get fireball and like it. At least up until this level. No room for using sp to quicken blast spells often, at least at this point, so you just take the best one and roll with it.
Cone of cold and chain lightning are very good spells that you should perhaps look to include in your final build, but this is for when you grow up. For now, just play with fireball.
Blasting takes a hit from how we have to use our slots but mostly our sp with buffing (due to GWM) and debuffing (due to Hound of Ill omen). Later on, it should be perhfectly possible to include one or two more blast spells. One more at least for sure.
If I were to go with a similar build now, I'd go with divine soul as my sorc origin (btw the build used the UA version of the shadow origin, so there are a few small differences). Mainly for the ability to boost those concentration saves on a twinned haste (with favored of the gods). I'd lower con a bit to improve dex and wis too. Possibly some changes to spell selection since I see too many concentration spells there and some really good spells missing from it (eg absorb elements).
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