[3.5] Obstacles that can only be overcome by flying

[GreatDane]

Heya, playground! I'm assembling a dungeon, and I've got a section of the underground complex that I want to keep off-limits for exploration until the party gains the ability to fly. It's fine if a single player, like a wildshaped druid, can get to this section early - the challenges there should scare them off until the whole party can tag along. Potions of fly are similarly a non-issue; the adventure premise precludes Magic-Mart-style shopping. My main problem is devising flight-oriented obstacles that aren't obviated by lower-level abilities like levitate or spider climb.

So far, my best answer is an extra-wide chasm with Deadly Goo™ coating the walls, or maybe inhabited by some kind of swooping monster. That feels a little heavy-handed, though, so I want to hear your ideas!

[Elkad]

If the druid can get there, the wizard can as well. Fly spell comes online at the same time as wildshape (unless you are restricting his spellbook options).

A defender that it takes the whole party to get by would work. Roper? If the fighter can fly and plink it with arrows from out of tentacle range, it's not a threat. But the Druid-Owl probably can't just fly by and tie a long rope to help the party up.

[Xervous]

One option for things that simply must be bypassed is a large quantity of magical vermin, troublesome creatures, or in other words a quantity of monsters that the players can't hope to overcome in combat partly due to the sheer numbers. Of course a lava moat can accomplish much of the same. Denying spider climb means denying walls. Magical vermin can cover this nicely but step carefully lest your players wonder "so why don't the ravenous thunder centipedes just pounce us as we fly through?" It will be easier to remove the walls from the equation with the outdoors being the most clean cut way to approach it. Similarly you have to deny the ceiling to prevent levitate users from pushing themselves along that. Again, outdoors solves this with no issue. Otherwise thunder centipedes.

Now another option may be to stick burrowing creatures in the floor, walls and ceiling. Make contact and the hive is stirred, but for some contrived reason they won't go beyond (area).

[jintoya]

One option for things that simply must be bypassed is a large quantity of magical vermin, troublesome creatures, or in other words a quantity of monsters that the players can't hope to overcome in combat partly due to the sheer numbers. Of course a lava moat can accomplish much of the same. Denying spider climb means denying walls. Magical vermin can cover this nicely but step carefully lest your players wonder "so why don't the ravenous thunder centipedes just pounce us as we fly through?" It will be easier to remove the walls from the equation with the outdoors being the most clean cut way to approach it. Similarly you have to deny the ceiling to prevent levitate users from pushing themselves along that. Again, outdoors solves this with no issue. Otherwise thunder centipedes.

Now another option may be to stick burrowing creatures in the floor, walls and ceiling. Make contact and the hive is stirred, but for some contrived reason they won't go beyond (area).

Magic vermin:
If there is a single anchor point on the other side, a creative party might produce a zip-line by sticking a post in the ground.
If they are in any lowered terrain, a sufficiently long tree could act as a bridge... But if it's just a zone...

Otherwise I like this idea.

In my games I like to use mimics for these things, why not make a mimic wall that has way too much HP to fight and have a sign that reads "don't touch the wall" let them poke it with a stick it throw a rock at it to make them aware of it's true nature, then let a spell bounce off it without any rolls too tell them that they have to think outside the box.

Edit:
You can also reuse this as a "entrance guarding mimic" with his extra-dimensional insides are a kingdom of monsters or a whole other world for some fun and strange adventures!
Maybe a good way to let your BBEG do things while the players are gone?

That's the sort of thing I do to my players.

[MisterKaws]

Put the Tarrasque between point A and point B. They can overcome it by flying.

[Mr Adventurer]

Chasm maze, too long to use Spiderclimb. Also normal maze hazards, traps, flying monsters, etc.

Technically is passable by normal climbing, but incredibly risky.

[GreatDane]

Really digging the monster suggestions, guys! It looks like "long, chasm-like stretch of tough but immobile monsters" is the way to go, and I can mix up exactly which critter is keeping the party occupied. Ropers fit in perfectly, and I'm sure I can dig up all kinds of climbing vermin, swooping flyers, etc.

[pabelfly]

Underground lake with an aquatic monster in it?

[Diarmuid]

I guess I'll ask the question why "flight" particularly is your gate for this area? If the party were never to gain "flight" but could overcome the obstacle in some other, creative and/or meaningful way would that not be welcome?


Honestly, just assign a CR to the task of overcoming your "gate", define what it is and go from there. If you intend it to be challenging at L5 but probably easy by 7, figure out what you want to it to be and let your players decide how they want to go about circumventing it.


Making something so defined and restrictive can be detrimental to a game that is so open and interpretable.

[Elkad]

I don't think "flight" is his actual gate, he just wants the party to stay out until they gain a few levels. (Though I guess he could have lots of flying challenges inside, so he wants the party to be prepared)

It could easily be a handwavium mystic barrier that you must be L9 to pass through. Except for the immersion breaking.

[Segev]

A series of cracks the size of chasms that narrow to knife-width at the bottom, and are maze-like from within. The plateaus these cracks surround are loosely connected by rickety bridges guarded by archers and axe-wielding sappers who will cut them down if people get too far across.

This will seem like a nasty trap zone full of a combat you want to run, but which they will feel clever for waiting for flight to subvert. If they press inwards, play it hard and with vicious glee, and they likely will eventually give up.

[jintoya]

A series of cracks the size of chasms that narrow to knife-width at the bottom, and are maze-like from within. The plateaus these cracks surround are loosely connected by rickety bridges guarded by archers and axe-wielding sappers who will cut them down if people get too far across.

This will seem like a nasty trap zone full of a combat you want to run, but which they will feel clever for waiting for flight to subvert. If they press inwards, play it hard and with vicious glee, and they likely will eventually give up.

A good hide check plus arrows and time will handle most of this.
One of my players would just make a tower shield out of planks and be mobile cover for the ranged classes to pick them off over time.

[Efrate]

Massive prismatic wall blocking the area. Deactivated by a series of ariel acrobatics (the mating ritual of the rare cave swallow performed by 2 people in perfect sync or the like. ) Clues to this and a perform dance check with a laughable dc (like 3) at the end of the area which should get them flight.

Alternately, a big illusion of a solid stone wall on the other side of a chasm. Far enough away that they cannot interact with it meaningfully so they get no save to disbelieve. Again deactivated by something later. Chasm full of real lava in front of it precludes trying to climb it.

[Tvtyrant]

Lava sea full of lava sharks. If the party is talented enough to get across anyway they are probably going to be fine to reach that region.

OoC option: Say "don't go there for a few levels" to the party.

[Asmotherion]

-Floating mote of earth
-Force Walls that cannot be climbed
-Walls coated with a harmful effect (For example a Wall made of a thorny wood; Climbing it would force a Reflex save each round for 1d6 piercing or 1/2 on a succesful save).
-Antimagic Field (can fly above the radius)
-island in the middle of a pool of lava/poison (toxic waste)/accid.

if they can figure out a way around those obstacles without relying on flying they do deserve to get to the "hidden contnent".

[jintoya]

-Floating mote of earth
-Force Walls that cannot be climbed
-Walls coated with a harmful effect (For example a Wall made of a thorny wood; Climbing it would force a Reflex save each round for 1d6 piercing or 1/2 on a succesful save).
-Antimagic Field (can fly above the radius)
-island in the middle of a pool of lava/poison (toxic waste)/accid.

if they can figure out a way around those obstacles without relying on flying they do deserve to get to the "hidden contnent".

An I to assume this is all separate obstacles?

The floating earth sounds like a fun game of "battle in the magic asteroid belt" hopscotch edition.
Just think of how tantalising that is for players, fighting evil in the floating debris...I endorse doing this.

Force walls do not need to be climbed, you only need to climb the ladder you lean against it

Thorny walls could be good, assuming they bypass all hardness so you cannot just put something over the spikes.
Mix that with the anti-magic and make them regenerate so fireball won't just handle it... That works.

Island is a good option but a simple raft handles most of those, unless something lives in the poison. Lava would be alright, but in an enclosed cavern, it's going to kill you if you fly over it (unless you use lava from the book)

[Segev]

A good hide check plus arrows and time will handle most of this.
One of my players would just make a tower shield out of planks and be mobile cover for the ranged classes to pick them off over time.
Enough enemies mean that they will be seen eventually. The game here is attrition.

[Crake]

Well, according to the climb skill " A perfectly smooth, flat, vertical surface cannot be climbed." soo.... Just make the walls perfectly smooth and flat. Then even with spider climb they can't climb it. To prevent levitate, just have control winds blowing away from the object, even a light, steady breeze will push them away, or just have a trap of gust of wind that triggers on proximity that will blow them away if they're just casually levitating.

[jintoya]

Enough enemies mean that they will be seen eventually. The game here is attrition.

Yes, but too many enemies and it's too hard, even after the fly spell.i would instead have some kobolds rush out and begin untying the bridges after the the PC's are 25-30% across, let the slowest member barely make it, maybe slip and Indiana Jones (Temple of Doom) climb back up while arrows pelt around him and the kobolds can retrieve the opposite end of the bridge with a grappling hook later.

I suppose heavily defended archers would work, or just a cache of healing potions they guzzle.
I suppose giving them the feat: snatch/deflect arrows would work too

[Segev]

Yes, but too many enemies and it's too hard, even after the fly spell.i would instead have some kobolds rush out and begin untying the bridges after the the PC's are 25-30% across, let the slowest member barely make it, maybe slip and Indiana Jones (Temple of Doom) climb back up while arrows pelt around him and the kobolds can retrieve the opposite end of the bridge with a grappling hook later.

I suppose heavily defended archers would work, or just a cache of healing potions they guzzle.
I suppose giving them the feat: snatch/deflect arrows would work too

With flying, they just fly out of range.

[jintoya]

With flying, they just fly out of range.

Flight would work in that situation, but I'm trying to think of ways that a creative party might overcome it, so we can create obstacles that can only be overcome with flight.
I think you may have mistook the intent of my poking holes in the plan.

If I cannot think of a way across without flight, then it's less likely the party will either.

[Segev]

Flight would work in that situation, but I'm trying to think of ways that a creative party might overcome it, so we can create obstacles that can only be overcome with flight.
I think you may have mistook the intent of my poking holes in the plan.

If I cannot think of a way across without flight, then it's less likely the party will either.

I was more responding to what sounded like, "Flight wouldn't work, either, here," than anything else.

The "top level" design intent of the *cough*Storlight Archive-inspired*cough* obstacle of chasms and plateaus guarded by hostile creatures is that it SEEMS doable, at first, by fighting one's way across, but quickly becomes such a resource sink and so time-consuming that it clearly isn't. They can win their way across one or two bridges, only to find that they're being chopped down behind them, and that they have dozens more, and that there's no safe place to rest. The retreat becomes its own fraught moment if they didn't take special pains to secure their route.

It isn't truly impassable, but it would take a very long time and lots of preparation and effort. They'll come back to it later. And, when they can fly, they'll feel clever for circumventing the series of hard fights the DM clearly had planned for them!

[jintoya]

I was more responding to what sounded like, "Flight wouldn't work, either, here," than anything else.

The "top level" design intent of the *cough*Storlight Archive-inspired*cough* obstacle of chasms and plateaus guarded by hostile creatures is that it SEEMS doable, at first, by fighting one's way across, but quickly becomes such a resource sink and so time-consuming that it clearly isn't. They can win their way across one or two bridges, only to find that they're being chopped down behind them, and that they have dozens more, and that there's no safe place to rest. The retreat becomes its own fraught moment if they didn't take special pains to secure their route.

It isn't truly impassable, but it would take a very long time and lots of preparation and effort. They'll come back to it later. And, when they can fly, they'll feel clever for circumventing the series of hard fights the DM clearly had planned for them!

I do this sort of thing with the meekest monsters, I find that it's more fun when the party goes in thinking "it's just kobolds, how bad can it be?"
Then after getting lost in a deep tunnel maze for an hour while fighting kobolds who are just grinding them down with seemingly endless numbers... It becomes "kobolds are scary, where's the exit?"

[ayvango]

giant mechanism that moves perpetually. Large cogs traverses it up-down and left-right, so that the only safe path lies in between. The path flying creature could made, but climbing the mechanism would eventually put you between gears.