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View Full Version : Factotum build leveling question? Your thoughts?



CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-08, 03:35 PM
Building a skill monkey with 32 point buy and a Hengeyokai shapechanger instead of a Changeling or Doppleganger which is basically a house rule:

Variant Changeling Rogue - 1, Factotum -5, Chameleon - 3.

Your thoughts regarding allowing this PC to take the "Cunning Surge" class special of the Factotum with his level 9 feat would be appreciated.

These are my thoughts:

The special ability "Cunning Surge" is basically one feat in the Factotum feat chain that is normally acquired at level 8 in the Factotum class.

This PC could learn "Cunning Surge" on a daily basis IMO with his open daily bonus feat from the Chameleon PRC if desired but that would limit his options.

At level 9 he has all the prerequisite feats of the feat chain and excedes the minimum level it is normally acquired at.

Thanks.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-09, 07:18 AM
Had 46 views and no comments either way for or against so will consider it middle of the road balanced and not gamebreaking.

jameswilliamogle
2007-10-09, 08:21 AM
Not sure what you mean by taking the Cunning Surge feat... I thought this was a class feature. I'm not sure what you are asking...

Are you saying what are our thoughts on replacing your L9 feat w/ Cunning Surge? I don't think that this would be balanced at all. Its a very, very powerful ability, and I don't think that allowing it as a feat is balanced at all.

Consider it: a Human Wizard takes Font of Inspiration 4 times up to 9th, then takes Cunning Surge at 9th. He now has 14 Inspiration Points every combat, or 3 free standard actions each combat, or 4 combat spells round 1. Too good.

Even on your character, I think its too good. Those Chameleon levels allow for quite a bit of spellcasting, too. Going the standard Factotum 8 / Chameleon is a very powerful character as is; just do this.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-10, 12:10 AM
Appreciate the post.

TimeWizard
2007-10-10, 09:16 AM
I got to check out this factotum everyone keeps talking about. Dungeonscape, right? Did the Giant invent this class?

BardicDuelist
2007-10-10, 11:52 AM
I think this is a bad idea. Look at it this way: You are getting Chamelion and Rogue abilities instead of Cunning Surge. To be able to get both is unbalancing because the abilities are balanced assuming that you will not have both at a certain level. Cunning Surge is also considered the Factotum's best feature at that point.

TimeWizard: No, the Giant said in an interview that the other designer worked on the factotum class.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-10, 01:44 PM
I think this is a bad idea. Look at it this way: You are getting Chamelion and Rogue abilities instead of Cunning Surge. To be able to get both is unbalancing because the abilities are balanced assuming that you will not have both at a certain level. Cunning Surge is also considered the Factotum's best feature at that point.


Would you allow a Factotum - 5, Chameleon - 3 to duplicate Cunning Surging with his daily "Open" bonus feat since he has all the prerequities it is based on?

Kaelik
2007-10-10, 02:20 PM
Would you allow a Factotum - 5, Chameleon - 3 to duplicate Cunning Surging with his daily "Open" bonus feat since he has all the prerequities it is based on?

No. Because it's a class ability. Why not just have him use that Feat to duplicate Wizard spellcasting of his character level? Because it's silly and too powerful, that's why.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-10, 05:34 PM
No. Because it's a class ability. Why not just have him use that Feat to duplicate Wizard spellcasting of his character level? Because it's silly and too powerful, that's why.

Excellent point I never even considered it for Spellcasting.

I find it interestingl that the Mage PRC from D20 Modern list "Arcane Spells" under class specials.

Curious if anyone is aware of a source that lists Spellcasting for a spontantous caster as an Extraordinary ability because that would then technically open up sorcerous spellcasting to the Factotum a few times a day with Cunning Brillance since it wouldn't last long enough to memorize spells as a wizard.

What are your thoughts about letting a Chameleon choose Sneak Attack or Turn Undead with his "Open" bonus feat since they are class specials in core and not feats although they are described as feats in at least one other source book?

BardicDuelist
2007-10-10, 07:51 PM
As a Factotum, you can sneak attack and turn undead.

Also, can I ask why Rogue 1? It seems a bit silly since you allready can do sneak attack and trapfind. A two level dip I understand (for evasion), but not a one.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-11, 12:55 AM
I like it because I'm not aware of any other class besides the Changeling Rogue variant that gets 10 skill points or more a level and I'm building a high intelligence skill monkey which gets the most benefit at first level from those extra skill point ranks.

The Changeling Rogue variant from RoE also receives Social Intuition instead of Trapfinding.

Social Intuition lets you take 10 on skills like Diplomacy, Gather Information (Six times quicker (2-5 times 10 minutes vice hours) and Sense Motive (1 round vice 10 rounds).

Then you get Trap finding back with Factotum.

Nice special and 2 extra skill points multiplied fourfold (basically worth a feat for taking the variant IMO) particularly if leveling up from first level.

Factotum has a single level if you are going to 20 for the capstone so it meshes with nicely with Factotum - 19.

It's a choice leveling up I'd probably take a level in Marshal somewhere probably after CRogue- 1, Factotum - 3, (Marshal -1), Chameleon -3+ (Probably finishing out the 10 levels in Chameleon) and one of the reasons for my question since a Belt of Actions is only 6,000 GP.

Chameleon - 10, Factotum - 8 you still have two levels to play with (Marshal - 1 for motivate Intelligence works well).

Some might consider it UA cheese there is a feat called Improved Sneak Attack +3D6 on page 76 which requires Sneak Attack and 11 ranks in Hide and Move Silently. You have Sneak Attack form Changeling Rogue and can take Improved Sneak Attack with the 11 ranks with that "Open" bonus feat in Chameleon. I'm not saying this is the best option just an option to keep in the back of your mind. Using that doesn't cost you any Inspiration points.

jameswilliamogle
2007-10-11, 11:06 AM
That Sneak Attack +3d6 also is for generic characters only, and can only be picked up w/ the generic character bonus feats, not the one you get every 3rd level. If you are playing w/ generic charcters, then every player is playing w/ generic characters, like gestalt. It isn't cheesy at all, except at 1st level (when you can get 2d6 right off the bat).