Best Class For Incubus PC

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

My dm has allowed me to play an incubus for an upcoming "evil" campaign (we do a lot of little ones here and there). He has agreed to let me "buy" off one level of the normally LA +2 race, making it LA +1. I was wondering what would be the best class for the typical incubus, I want to make full use of the bonus to charisma and strength.

I was originally thinking of making him a charisma based spellcaster, but I felt like he needed to be able to implement his bonus to strength efficiently, so I had to rethink it.

I feel like the best requirements for a good class would be moderately okay base attack bonus advancement and enough of a chance to fight melee, while having some use for charisma outside of intimidation.

My initial thoughts were Martial and Knight, which implement auras, but I wasn't sure what else there is.

**Edit**
Just to clarify, my DM is allowing me to play the incubus using the succubus stats, but just being male, with some reflavoring of the descriptive text to make it fit an incubus, rather than a succubus

[Yogibear41]

Where is the Incubus race at? A dragon magazine?

[MisterKaws]

Where is the Incubus race at? A dragon magazine?

For 3.5, it was only ever statted at Dragon 353, but it uses the weirder, "newer" monster block, made after they began being annoying and not letting players play monstrous characters, so it has no LA presented.

Using the 3.0 Incubus stats adapted to the 3.5 Succubus, you'd have LA +6, so I don't think it's that either...

[Thurbane]

Also, a lot of tables just use Incubus to describe a male Succubus (using the same stats). The LA assignment project (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21798992&postcount=2) gave Succubus LA +2.

[Particle_Man]

Bard? You get middle BAB, can use chr for spells and perform checks, and can selectively buff allies. With the right acf you could probably get a bit more martial.

[Maat Mons]

My first instinct was Beguiler, but that's an Int-based caster.

Maybe Rogue 1 / Sorcerer 4 / Unseen Seer 10? That would let you get social skills and mind-bending magic with Cha setting your save DC.

Psionics would let you easily use mind-warping powers without anyone being able to tell. But the Cha-based manifester is Wilder, and all the really thematic powers for an incubus are exclusive to Psions who select the telepathy discipline.

[Crake]

Fiend of Possession, 100%. Your DCs are cha based, and you have super high cha, then just find someone with the abilities you want, and spend a few days breaking them in so you can control them. Bonus points if your DM lets you use the possession rules in fiendish codex I to allow you to completely take over and transform their body. Bonus bonus points if you can get a way to actually displace their soul, like with magic jar, so even if you get hit with a protection from evil, you'll still be in control, because you're the only host of the body.

[Azoth]

I am going to second Bard. Refluff Dragonfire Inspiration as Hellfire Inspiration. Refluff Snowflake Wardance as a way of fighting that uses movement to seduce enemies into dropping their guard (explain the Cha to Hit). Grab a Crystal Echoblade and describe it as being made of Ruby and Obsidian so it casts a redish purple glow as magic and light pulse through it.

You can dip around classes like Battledancer for Cha to AC, Blackguard/variant Paladin for Cha to saves, and any number of classes for Turn/Rebuke Undead to fuel Divine Might. You can even throw Sudden Stunning on the Echoblade for a Cha based Save or Lose rider on your attacks.

Any combination of the above will lead to a melee monster that has plenty of uses for his high Charisma.

[SolomonGraves]

Greetings everyone. I just so happen to be in the same predicament as the original poster but I built my Incubus in a much different way. Essentially, I used the Succubus progression from Savage Species to build this character, only my DM allowed me to smush the "class" levels from 12 to 10 to match the rest of the party. In doing so, I have ten levels to work with and I've quickly come to realize that Incubi are not powerful melee characters. Hard to catch and hit, but they have no hit points and are instantly banished once they hit zero hit points.

The question that I pose remains the same as the OP. I have quite a bit invested in empowering his Energy Drain, mostly using feats from from Libris Mortis but so far I have no class levels in this character. I'm not sure about primary caster classes seeing as my casting ability would be limited to whatever spells I get from ten levels and pitting those spell levels against 20th level full casters. A few levels in Warshaper could be helpful and I was looking with some interest at Soul Eater from BOVD which would mean he'd get some major empowerment from each level he stole, on top of what his feats already entitle him to.

In anycase, I'd like to piggy back on this thread and see where it goes. I know there is a good solution out there somewhere.

[Particle_Man]

It would be amusing to take Blackguard if only to show the “peaceful contact with an evil outsider” as “so I called my dad . . .” :smallsmile:

[Segev]

I was originally thinking of making him a charisma based spellcaster, but I felt like he needed to be able to implement his bonus to strength efficiently, so I had to rethink it.

I feel like the best requirements for a good class would be moderately okay base attack bonus advancement and enough of a chance to fight melee, while having some use for charisma outside of intimidation.

Bard actually seems like an obvious choice for the combination of melee prowess and charisma casting. The fascination and charming abilities complement theme well, too. Heck, a Fascinated target probably isn't going to resist something so innocuous as a flirtatious kiss. Fluff your Bardic Knowledge as being dirty little secrets you've picked up from your many, many trysts and the like.

You might also examine Fiend of Corruption from Fiend Folio. I forget what it does, and remember being unimpressed, but it might be thematic. (Fiend of Possession, from the same book, is awesome, but seems counter to your designs, here.)

Alternatively, if you really want to emphasize the combat rather than the social, a Magus with the Eldritch Scion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo-magus-archetypes/eldritch-scion) archetype is a charisma-casting gish. You'll have to look over bloodrager bloodlines to see if any stand out as useful for your build.

[Crake]

I am going to second Bard. Refluff Dragonfire Inspiration as Hellfire Inspiration. Refluff Snowflake Wardance as a way of fighting that uses movement to seduce enemies into dropping their guard (explain the Cha to Hit). Grab a Crystal Echoblade and describe it as being made of Ruby and Obsidian so it casts a redish purple glow as magic and light pulse through it.

You can dip around classes like Battledancer for Cha to AC, Blackguard/variant Paladin for Cha to saves, and any number of classes for Turn/Rebuke Undead to fuel Divine Might. You can even throw Sudden Stunning on the Echoblade for a Cha based Save or Lose rider on your attacks.

Any combination of the above will lead to a melee monster that has plenty of uses for his high Charisma.

Every time someone tries to fluff cha to hit/AC as seduction, I have to explain why that completely falls apart: Mindless enemies. You still get cha to hit/AC, but those kinds of creatures are completely immune to seduction.

[Telonius]

Every time someone tries to fluff cha to hit/AC as seduction, I have to explain why that completely falls apart: Mindless enemies. You still get cha to hit/AC, but those kinds of creatures are completely immune to seduction.

Somehow I always seem to have a version of this one in my group...

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/d5/b7/32/d5b732d6a2bc56434fd25c03a70b58cf--challenge-accepted-twelfth-doctor.jpg

[Crake]

Somehow I always seem to have a version of this one in my group...

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/d5/b7/32/d5b732d6a2bc56434fd25c03a70b58cf--challenge-accepted-twelfth-doctor.jpg

Personally my favourite interpretation was one we used for a feytouched gunslinger with the charming the arrow feat (I allowed it for guns as well), giving cha to hit for ranged attacks, and we fluffed it in a similar manner to orks in wh40k: She believed she would hit, and thus, her belief manifested into reality, and she actually hit :smalltongue:

[Asmotherion]

Warlock would be pretty thematic. Hellfire-Naberious build.

[Crake]

Warlock would be pretty thematic. Hellfire-Naberious build.

Keep in mind hellfire is infernal aka LE, wheras incubi are demons, aka CE, it's not really too fitting, since devils would never give demons power like that.

[Ravens_cry]

Somehow I always seem to have a version of this one in my group...

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/d5/b7/32/d5b732d6a2bc56434fd25c03a70b58cf--challenge-accepted-twelfth-doctor.jpg
Eh, mindless creatures would automatically fail the Harkness test, I'd say.
Bard, sorcerer, binder, just pick a charisma based class and go to town with panache and chutzpah. You are a mother fluffing incubus. The world is what you make it.

[Thurbane]

To give the best advice, we still need the OP to clarify exactly which Incubus he would be playing...

[Mehangel]

One of my players back in the day played an incubus Beguiler. It was a lot of fun for both the party and myself as the DM.

[Asmotherion]

Keep in mind hellfire is infernal aka LE, wheras incubi are demons, aka CE, it's not really too fitting, since devils would never give demons power like that.

i thought i red somewere in the lore that they were working for both the Nine Hells and the Abyss as long as their lord was Evil... could be remembering wrong though.

[MisterKaws]

Every time someone tries to fluff cha to hit/AC as seduction, I have to explain why that completely falls apart: Mindless enemies. You still get cha to hit/AC, but those kinds of creatures are completely immune to seduction.

Is there any seduction-type Bardic Music? We could use Requiem for Undead, and I believe there are spells that make the other creature types vulnerable to it as well.

Hmmm... Virtuoso has Dominate Monster.

[Crake]

i thought i red somewere in the lore that they were working for both the Nine Hells and the Abyss as long as their lord was Evil... could be remembering wrong though.

Hellfire Warlock is in fiendish codex II: tyrants of the nine hells, and specifies that the fire is a creation of mephistopheles, and while the class itself doesn't require you to be lawful evil, or even non-chaotic, much of the fluff of the class heavily implies an infernal source of the power, and sure, good characters can wield the fire, but evil is always happy to provide good with power, if it furthers their agenda, meanwhile devils abhore demons, and I can't see a reasonable explanation as to why a devil would give a demon use of it's weapons.


Is there any seduction-type Bardic Music? We could use Requiem for Undead, and I believe there are spells that make the other creature types vulnerable to it as well.

Hmmm... Virtuoso has Dominate Monster.

That's all well and good... for those abilities. Abilities like cha to AC/Saves/Attacks doesn't have the right descriptors to be able to apply abilities like requiem to them, and there are more than just undead that are mindless.

[MisterKaws]

Hellfire Warlock is in fiendish codex II: tyrants of the nine hells, and specifies that the fire is a creation of mephistopheles, and while the class itself doesn't require you to be lawful evil, or even non-chaotic, much of the fluff of the class heavily implies an infernal source of the power, and sure, good characters can wield the fire, but evil is always happy to provide good with power, if it furthers their agenda, meanwhile devils abhore demons, and I can't see a reasonable explanation as to why a devil would give a demon use of it's weapons.



That's all well and good... for those abilities. Abilities like cha to AC/Saves/Attacks doesn't have the right descriptors to be able to apply abilities like requiem to them, and there are more than just undead that are mindless.

Greater Humanoid Essence maybe? Virtuoso is a good way to advance Sublime Chord.

Though it does come really late, and still doesn't solve the issue with plants.

[Crake]

Greater Humanoid Essence maybe? Virtuoso is a good way to advance Sublime Chord.

Though it does come really late, and still doesn't solve the issue with plants.

I mean, if you want to waste a 6/7th level spell to get Cha to attacks/AC/Saves against a creature for rounds/level with a save to negate because you really want to fluff it as seduction, when you would have gotten it for free before..... I guess go right ahead?

But then I posit to you: What if you're attacking/dodging/saving against something that isn't even a creature in the first place? Mindless goes beyond creatures after all, I guess you're happy to give up your attack/ac/saves vs traps and objects?

[MisterKaws]

I mean, if you want to waste a 6/7th level spell to get Cha to attacks/AC/Saves against a creature for rounds/level with a save to negate because you really want to fluff it as seduction, when you would have gotten it for free before..... I guess go right ahead?

But then I posit to you: What if you're attacking/dodging/saving against something that isn't even a creature in the first place? Mindless goes beyond creatures after all, I guess you're happy to give up your attack/ac/saves vs traps and objects?

Yeah... Doesn't work very well. Still, you could maybe use it with Ur-Priest/Fochlucan Lyrist+some Arcane->Divine spell conversion to do it super early.

I mean I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass right now. There's better ways to get a stat to everything, and most of them are Wis-based.

And eight-armed creatures for getting the most of a single stat(Strength).

[redking]

Let me help you. You owe it to yourself to have a class keyed off charisma. You also want to take advantage of your outsider racial HD, which at 6 HD offers you 6 BAB.

6 Outsider RHD (make sure you take combat casting as a feat. Your incubus has martial weapons proficiency, which will allow you to prestige later)
1 Beguiler warmage or dread necromancer - take your pick. Warmage gives you the ability to use armor though.
5 Abjurant Champion (the 5th level ability, Martial Arcanist, gives you BAB to caster level - meaning that your caster level will be 10 when it would normally be 6).

After this your options are a bit more limited. What you want is to maintain high BAB while progressing spellcasting. You could go Eldritch Knight, but that is boring. Your DM sounds like an understanding guy, so see if you can get him to agree to a chaotic evil adaption of the Fist of Raziel (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/exalted/fistraziel.shtml). In this case any time evil is mentioned, replace the ability with good, and any outsiders, replace with denizens of the prime material plane.

EDIT: If Eberron material is allowed, you could go Knight Phantom (Five Nations variant, p. 41). Its a 9/10 spellcasting, full BAB PrC. Or you can use Swiftblade, which was fixed by WoTC after player feedback (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327). Swiftblade is a 6/10 spellcasting, full BAB PrC with a number of interesting abilities. Either way you don't lose CL because your CL is equal to BAB.

[Crake]

Let me help you. You owe it to yourself to have a class keyed off charisma. You also want to take advantage of your outsider racial HD, which at 6 HD offers you 6 BAB.

6 Outsider RHD (make sure you take combat casting as a feat. Your incubus has martial weapons proficiency, which will allow you to prestige later)
1 Beguiler (or warmage or dread necromancer - take your pick but note that beguiler and warmage allow some armor).
5 Abjurant Champion (the 5th level ability, Martial Arcanist, gives you BAB to caster level - meaning that your caster level will be 10 when it would normally be 6).

After this your options are a bit more limited. What you want is to maintain high BAB while progressing spellcasting. You could go Eldritch Knight, but that is boring. Your DM sounds like an understanding guy, so see if you can get him to agree to a chaotic evil adaption of the Fist of Raziel (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/exalted/fistraziel.shtml). In this case any time evil is mentioned, replace the ability with good, and any outsiders, replace with denizens of the prime material plane.

You know beguiler is keyed off int right?

[redking]

You know beguiler is keyed off int right?

What tha - lemme fix this.

[Bphill561]

You have just LA, no racial HD?

My current Succubus character is in a similar situation, with the house rule we could break out of the savage species progressions at any time to take class levels. Sort of like your +1 LA if you forgo any racial HD.

Succubus 2/ Bard 1/Fiend of Possession 5/ Ur-Priest 10/ Fiend of Possession 1

Cast summon mirror mephit and use the Ur-Priest steal spell-like ability to pick up Simulacrum. Took the "Practiced Magic" feat from Dungeon magazine that improves the caster level by 4 on a spell-like ability at level 18 (mirror mephit caster level was too low at 8, feat raises it to 12 for 24 HD targets). Made copies of myself for weapon, armor, shield, and self possession. Not the most optimized build but kind of funny. You can take all fiend of possession levels first if you do the Embrace/Shun dark Heresy feat shuffle to move the 18th level feat to 19th, or take Ur-Priest levels sooner to get the copy function quicker. At that level you could just buy simulacrum scrolls as well, but I wanted to actually take all the levels of Ur-Priest instead of an Ur-Chord or some dual progression build.

[Azoth]

Excuse the "seduction" angle for Cha to Hit, I was half asleep and forgot mindless creatures exist for moment.

Fluff it anyway you like really.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

Hmm...shame NONE of what Charisma measures and represents can be leveraged to explain it or fluff it against anything that is mindless. So since any fluff is wrong, you can't be any more wrong representing it one way as opposed to another as long as it is within the bounds of what the Charisma stat represents.

[Crake]

Hmm...shame NONE of what Charisma measures and represents can be leveraged to explain it or fluff it against anything that is mindless. So since any fluff is wrong, you can't be any more wrong representing it one way as opposed to another as long as it is within the bounds of what the Charisma stat represents.

I disagree, as your force of personality, you could think of charisma as your will for things to happen. Not will, as in will save, but like, your determination and desire. You quite literally will yourself to hit, or to deflect an attack, or to succeed on a save. That interpretation works no matter what the target or obstacle is.

[Azoth]

I disagree, as your force of personality, you could think of charisma as your will for things to happen. Not will, as in will save, but like, your determination and desire. You quite literally will yourself to hit, or to deflect an attack, or to succeed on a save. That interpretation works no matter what the target or obstacle is.

Wisdom (Wis)
Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition.

willpower
noun US
/ˈwɪlˌpɑʊ·ər/
the ability to control your own thoughts and behavior, esp. in difficult situations

You are confusing Charisma for Wisdom my friend.

[Crake]

Wisdom (Wis)
Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition.

willpower
noun US
/ˈwɪlˌpɑʊ·ər/
the ability to control your own thoughts and behavior, esp. in difficult situations

You are confusing Charisma for Wisdom my friend.

I literally explained how i'm not talking about willpower, but more determination and desire. I even made it clear I'm not talking about will as in a will save to, as you pasted, control your own thoughts and behaviour, but rather your ability to project your desires outward to affect the world as a whole.

[Anthrowhale]

Using the Succubus (since Incubus is undefined), the RHD and Cha+16 racial bonus begs hard for a Cha-based fast caster. The only reasonable choice I know of is the Divine Crusader. A Divine Crusader with the War Domain has access to Divine Power (for full BAB) and could take the Holy Warrior feat to gain +1 damage/level. You could potentially collect additional domains via Contemplative and Divine Oracle (for example).

[Asmotherion]

Excuse the "seduction" angle for Cha to Hit, I was half asleep and forgot mindless creatures exist for moment.

Fluff it anyway you like really.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

Hmm...shame NONE of what Charisma measures and represents can be leveraged to explain it or fluff it against anything that is mindless. So since any fluff is wrong, you can't be any more wrong representing it one way as opposed to another as long as it is within the bounds of what the Charisma stat represents.

Usually i fluff it as tactile telekinesis or some variation of "i persuade/intimidate the weave itself/minor elementals in the air to put force and pressision and help me wield my blade".

[Meditation]

All of the D&D mental stats are utter gibberish. Their natural english language definitions make them synonyms and the game text doesn't distinguish them as much as it throws adjetives around that lets the writer move on quickly and leave hashing it out to the internet. Simply treat Charisma as a literal superpower held by denizens of D&D-land with no real-world cognate and it will become conceptually manageable.

Iaijutsu Masters get Cha to initiative at 2. Mystic Wanderers get Cha to AC when unarmored.

Wilders are Cha-based and breaking into Anarchic Initiate (which is mandatory) helps make up for the serious hit to class levels. Practically speaking, the best choice is probably Ardent. Not Cha-based (and I thought I saw something that let you switch that primary stat but can't find it now, so maybe someone else can), but it can Practice Manifester 4 of the lost class levels away. Fiend of Possession has already been suggested as well.

[Segev]

All of the D&D mental stats are utter gibberish. Their natural english language definitions make them synonyms and the game text doesn't distinguish them as much as it throws adjetives around that lets the writer move on quickly and leave hashing it out to the internet.

I can see a rough argument for "Intelligence" and "Wisdom" being synonyms, but not "Charisma" and either of the other two. The natural language meaning of Charisma is "likability" or "force of personality." Neither of which are definitions of Intelligence or Wisdom.

Meanwhile, natural language has distinct denotations and very different connotations of "intelligent" vs. "wise." An intelligent man is stereotypically a genius or a nerd, with a good head for math and logic. A wise man is stereotypically full of good advice and good at decision making, and always has a method to any apparent madness.

And, of course, there's this gem: "Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable. Wisdom is knowing that it still doesn't go into a fruit salad."

[Crake]

And, of course, there's this gem: "Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable. Wisdom is knowing that it still doesn't go into a fruit salad."

And charisma is being able to sell a tomato-based fruit salad (aka salsa)

[jintoya]

And charisma is being able to sell a tomato-based fruit salad (aka salsa)

I like that because peppers are also a fruit, and are the other main ingredient to salsa.

[Thurbane]

Did we ever get to the bottom of the source for the race OP is playing? Is it a male Succubus? Is it the race from Dragon Mag?

[White Blade]

If it’s a standard Succubus but male, Marshal 1 to get minor aura to CHA checks. Presumably at ECL 11 that will give you +11 more (assuming you got your CHA to 32 with magic items/elite array) to all your CHA based skills, either free up all those sweet, sweet Outsider skill points or making you utterly dominant with the social skills. It also means you can issues orders to your charmed monsters basically for free (what monster is going to beat a +22 Cha check?) as long as the orders aren’t suicidal or obviously dangerous.

It miiight be profitable to get to Marshal 3 and get to swap between CHA and DEX for your minor aura but probably not. You could grab Minor Aura Dexterity instead but it’s probably not worthwhile.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I've got the weirdest sense of deja vu about this thread for some reason.

Anyway if you want a melee character that uses charisma, Crusader is pretty great. People tend to picture them as paragons of justice, but the only rule is that you have to stand for something (one of my favorite characters is a Crusader whose cause is his own ambition), and evil Crusaders are explicitly allowed. Crusaders get the ability to temporarily shrug off damage, add their Cha to Will saves and Smites, and at higher levels completely disregard many effects (as long as they make the save) through Mettle. Their maneuvers and stances (Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, and White Raven schools) tend to focus on attacking, defending, and healing.

Crusader's are especially awesome if you have RHD (I'm just going to assume the standard 6HD for succubi), because they count (well, half-count) towards you initiator level and all new snazzier maneuvers. If you're using the full on level buy-off system from Unearthed Arcana you can buy off your 2nd LA at 9th level and get all the way to max level maneuvers at level 20, as long as you don't multiclass into anything other than a prestige class.