Pally build advice

[Legendairy]

First of all thank you for your time.
To get to it. We are starting a new campaign starting at 2nd level there will be 3 of us.
The party: shepherd Druid, rogue going swashbuckler.

I will be playing a paladin/cleric multiclass, basically trying to tank and deal damage at times. I have read the guides and am stuck on general build/race. We rolled stats and I rolled really really well my stats are 16-16-16-16-14-13.
I am stuck with these big 3 options for race: aasimar (probably fallen), half elf, or V Human.

The back story is something akin to a blessed child sent early for a militaristic education, like a spartan legend, 7 years old trained to be the best of the best. He will be a military leader like an officer in modern military, straight from school and put in to a leadership position. It’s greyhawk and he is a devout follower of Heironious (sp?)

Now is where I’m unsure and would love for the playground to help me out. I am unsure which type of paladin to go, devotion, conquerer, or ancients. And how the race class combo could work. Then the second part is which domain to go, I was thinking protection but I’m open to ideas. Also what would the progression look like for a paladin/cleric. I’m interested in multiple builds, I plan on playing a shied and spear user so PaM is on the table. Houserules prevent some multiclass options like paladorc or sorcadin.

Thank you all in advance playground!

Edit: I forgot to add, I have 4 floating points to add to my ability scores. Any point above 16 costs 2 points. So for a 16 to go 17 costs two and 17 to 18 would be 2 more.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

First of all thank you for your time.
To get to it. We are starting a new campaign starting at 2nd level there will be 3 of us.
The party: shepherd Druid, rogue going swashbuckler.

I will be playing a paladin/cleric multiclass, basically trying to tank and deal damage at times. I have read the guides and am stuck on general build/race. We rolled stats and I rolled really really well my stats are 16-16-16-16-14-13.
I am stuck with these big 3 options for race: aasimar (probably fallen), half elf, or V Human.

The back story is something akin to a blessed child sent early for a militaristic education, like a spartan legend, 7 years old trained to be the best of the best. He will be a military leader like an officer in modern military, straight from school and put in to a leadership position. It’s greyhawk and he is a devout follower of Heironious (sp?)

Now is where I’m unsure and would love for the playground to help me out. I am unsure which type of paladin to go, devotion, conquerer, or ancients. And how the race class combo could work. Then the second part is which domain to go, I was thinking protection but I’m open to ideas. Also what would the progression look like for a paladin/cleric. I’m interested in multiple builds, I plan on playing a shied and spear user so PaM is on the table. Houserules prevent some multiclass options like paladorc or sorcadin.

Thank you all in advance playground!

Paladins are great at tanking and great at melee damage naturally.

My advice, don't spend 52 gaming sessions over 2 years chasing an extra D6. Pick whatever seems like the most fun.

In combat I like having Actions, Reactions and Bonus Actions.

Out of combat what do you want this character to be like? A half elf Vengeance Paladin could easily be an edgier guy than a Drew Rogue. Maybe he pushed the chivalry or honor thing too far? Maybe he fell off the honorable wagon? Maybe he's the most honorable fighting laid back V Human virtual monk acting Paladin we've ever seen?

Random Thoughts:

V Human and that free feet lets you do some things in combat.

(Edit) Would snagging Magic Initiate and or Spell Sniper with a Feat allow you to skip the multi-class?

Don't under-estimate the power of Bonus Action Healing Word.

[Legendairy]

Cleric comes with added goodies, healing, some more control, things like spirit guardians, more slots.

Out of combat I see him as a serious militaristic type, not severe but maybe even mistrusted for his faith and willingness to do what it takes. He will be semi mild mannered away from blood shed. Not too caught up in politics but still has a mind for them.

While chasing a d6 here or there is a definite benefit, I’m avoiding some of the most optimized options like sorcadin (can be done with homebrew just a bit harder) and paladin/hexblade or paladin/bard. Plus to me none of those really fit the character in my head, a devout warrior (paladin) who also enjoys theology and growing the church when not on crusade. I like the idea of mixing the two.

I was originally thinking arcane cleric and going the booming blade, spirit guardians, warcaster route. But I couldn’t fit the class to the character for whatever reason. To me he is a paladin. I could go straight paladin but I also think paladin/cleric will benefit the party more, am I wrong?

[zinycor]

I think with those stats, you should be okay regardless of your choices from an optimization point of view. Therefore, I would advice you to pick the oath for your paladin thinking about what fits his personality and goals rather than any mechanical reason.

Is he violent, worried about power and earthly problems? Then pick conquest.
Is he a good person, always worried about good and right, ready to sacrifice himself and his own ambitions for the good of others? Then go devotion.
Is he patient, worried about the truth behind things, and worried about unearthly values, always reaching for a superior value and will? Then pick ancients.

In the end, flavour is the most important when talking paladin.

[Quietus]

As is mentioned before, with those stats, you can pretty much do whatever you want. I would either lean hard into it with half-elf (extra skills, +1 str/con, use your 4 floating points to start with 18 str/con/cha), or go into variant human to start with PAM and be able to branch out from there (use floating points/racial stats to go 18 str, 16 con, 18 cha).

For which subclass to use... defensively, either Devotion or Ancients would be excellent, as they both work to take the edge off of bad luck. Not having to risk rolling a 1 against Charm Person is fantastic as a Devotion paladin, and being less worried about taking a high damage fireball/disintegrate is what Ancients exists for. Alternatively, if you want to lean into the melee thing, there's a build I've been considering for AL one day, and your stats make it hilariously good....

Vengeance Paladin has that level 7 ability that allows you to move half your speed whenever you make an opportunity attack, which you'll do often as a PAM user. I would find it VERY tempting to go variant human, start with PAM, bump Charisma at level 4, and then take Sentinel at level 8. With PAM and Sentinel, you get an opportunity attack any time something closes into melee with you, if you hit you drop their speed to 0, and then you can move at least 15 feet away. The absolute best way to tank is to make an enemy completely incapable of attacking you. From there, consider things like Resilient : Con, or just regular old stat boosts. Honestly there's nothing wrong with leaving Str at 18 if you want to start picking up random feats.

::Edit:: Also an option with that build - leave Charisma at 18, pick up Resilient : Con at 4. This gets you +10 to Constitution saves at level 9 when you pick up Haste, and this will only go up when your proficiency bonus goes up, and when you max Cha at 12.

[paladinn]

Are you sure you want to MC with cleric? You're going to be at least somewhat MAD. I would consider going Divine Soul sorcerer. You would be mostly Cha-SAD and still have access to cleric spells. You couldn't turn undead, but you can sling a fireball sometime :)

[djreynolds]

First of all thank you for your time.
To get to it. We are starting a new campaign starting at 2nd level there will be 3 of us.
The party: shepherd Druid, rogue going swashbuckler.

I will be playing a paladin/cleric multiclass, basically trying to tank and deal damage at times. I have read the guides and am stuck on general build/race. We rolled stats and I rolled really really well my stats are 16-16-16-16-14-13.
I am stuck with these big 3 options for race: aasimar (probably fallen), half elf, or V Human.

The back story is something akin to a blessed child sent early for a militaristic education, like a spartan legend, 7 years old trained to be the best of the best. He will be a military leader like an officer in modern military, straight from school and put in to a leadership position. It’s greyhawk and he is a devout follower of Heironious (sp?)

Now is where I’m unsure and would love for the playground to help me out. I am unsure which type of paladin to go, devotion, conquerer, or ancients. And how the race class combo could work. Then the second part is which domain to go, I was thinking protection but I’m open to ideas. Also what would the progression look like for a paladin/cleric. I’m interested in multiple builds, I plan on playing a shied and spear user so PaM is on the table. Houserules prevent some multiclass options like paladorc or sorcadin.

Thank you all in advance playground!

Edit: I forgot to add, I have 4 floating points to add to my ability scores. Any point above 16 costs 2 points. So for a 16 to go 17 costs two and 17 to 18 would be 2 more.

With stats like this, really.

Paladin/bladesinger. You can do it

[Legendairy]

With the homebrew rules I would have to start wizard at level 1 then go into paladin, I did think half elf bladesinger/paladin for a bit just starting out singer hurts I think.

The multiclassing into cleric doesn’t bother me mad wise, depending on race I could go with 18s in str/wis/cha out the gate leaving con at 16 and bumping it later.

[zinycor]

In my opinion, multiclassing into cleric isn't really needed, I would rather go into Sorcerer (Divine soul) and grab Spells from the cleric spell list, that way you get access to metamagic.

[djreynolds]

With the homebrew rules I would have to start wizard at level 1 then go into paladin, I did think half elf bladesinger/paladin for a bit just starting out singer hurts I think.

The multiclassing into cleric doesn’t bother me mad wise, depending on race I could go with 18s in str/wis/cha out the gate leaving con at 16 and bumping it later.

Armor wise, you're going with light armor. Paladin gives you this.

Bladesinger/OoD paladin you have the stats for this, 16-16-16-16-14-13.

It may not work with a shield, but you have the stats that any weapon is available to you.

[Legendairy]

I agree that a sorcadin would be beastly and a divine soul sorcadin would work amazingly well, the thing is it’s done to death, our dm doesn’t like it and would have to start sorcerer with the homebrew rules.

I’m interested in the bladesinger/paladin build like what it would look like how it comes online, I imagine it’s a lot like arcane cleric initially, booming blade til extra attack on either chassis. I don’t know that I would put all the 16s like that, probably “dump” strength and do for elven accuracy and still have a bit of tankiness with blur and shield and whatnot. I almost wonder how an Abjurer/paladin would fair with that spread....

[zinycor]

I agree that a sorcadin would be beastly and a divine soul sorcadin would work amazingly well, the thing is it’s done to death, our dm doesn’t like it and would have to start sorcerer with the homebrew rules.

I’m interested in the bladesinger/paladin build like what it would look like how it comes online, I imagine it’s a lot like arcane cleric initially, booming blade til extra attack on either chassis. I don’t know that I would put all the 16s like that, probably “dump” strength and do for elven accuracy and still have a bit of tankiness with blur and shield and whatnot. I almost wonder how an Abjurer/paladin would fair with that spread....

What are the homebrew rules exactly?

[Man_Over_Game]

What are the homebrew rules exactly?

If homebrew rules are on the table, and you like the idea of a Paladin/Wizard, here's a suggestion for your DM to look at, with justification behind the change:

Oath of Superiority
You can take the Paladin, using your Intelligence modifier in place of your Charisma modifier for your Paladin features.
Requirement: The only Paladin subclass available to you is the Oath of Conquest. Additionally, you cannot have more Wizard levels than your Paladin levels.
It's important to ensure Wizards can't get cheatyface AC from a low level dip while also being able to abuse Divine Smite's efficiency when provided a massive number of spell slots. A main-Paladin can dip into Wizard for Shield and Absorb Elements, but this is already doable with Sorcerer, and Sorcerer can cheat out Twin Spell Booming Blade, so it's still better than the Paladin/Wizard Hybrid.

Additionally, the Oath of Conquest is very dependent on their spellcasting modifier, and there's no method to grant Intelligence-based attacking, where there are several options to get Charisma-based attacking through Warlock levels.

Sure, this option's strong, but it's still weaker than the default, yet a lot more accessible than the hoops someone would have to go through for a Charisma Paladin + Intelligence Wizard.

[Legendairy]

If you play a wizard or sorc you have to start in that class at level 1 then you can multiclass. I know that sorcadin is still very viable and not completely off the table but I have played a few in the past in other games. The DM just doesn’t really care for the combo. So I am being mindful of that, he wouldn’t be against it but I know he doesn’t like the multiclass combo.

[Legendairy]

While that is a great suggestion MOG, I still need cha as the party face.....

[Man_Over_Game]

While that is a great suggestion MOG, I still need cha as the party face.....

I do have a long list of possible options similar to the Oath of Conquest/Superiority on my Prestige Options page, each with detailed analysis why they're balanced for any worried DMs. I didn't create many additional Charisma options, due to the fact that there are already so many, but here's another one you could consider:

Clergy of the People
You can take the Cleric, using your Charisma modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier for your Cleric features.
Requirement: You cannot have Warlock or Sorcerer levels.
Don't allow the Sorcerer and Warlock to multiclass with other casters. This is because they change how spellcasting works, to make it more versatile. Other classes, like the Cleric, can't use all of their features at the same time, but the Sorcerer and Warlock CAN (as their biggest features are Metamagics and Short-Rest Spell slot recharging). Adding more powers that you can't use at the same time (such as a Rogue's Cunning Action and a Monk's Patient Defense) adds versatility without adding much power. However, multiple features being able to be used at once results in an increase in power. Clerics, for instance, add proficiency in armor, which stays relevant as you cast spells, and can be treated as a passive benefit. Stacking multiple "passive" benefits results in overpowered builds. As an example, mixing the Cleric with Warlock and Sorcerer levels ends up with a high-AC, high-Concentration caster with too many tools and too much versatility. A Cleric/Sorcerer/Warlock could do anything, solve any problem, and be tanky to boot. Similarly, the reason that Paladin/Warlock/Sorcerer multiclasses work so well is because they can use their features in tandem rather than having to choose one to use.

With these restrictions, a Bard/Cleric might have some slightly higher AC, but ends up only being able to cast as at the same combat level of a lower level Cleric, as Bards lack combat prowess and Clerics rely on their mid-higher level slots for most of their power. A Cleric/Paladin multiclass has a lot of redundant proficiencies and requires several levels of investment to get much return out of it. There's just not a lot you can break with restrictions preventing Warlock and Sorcerer levels.

[Legendairy]

I will talk to him about some of the options but he usually likes to use official stuff only, not to say all homebrew is a no just that he has to proof read it and whatnot.

The more I think about this character the more confused I make myself, I have never played an Abjurer/fighter and don’t know how well they tank or damage. The pally bladesinger sounds like a blast with light armor and spear which would fit the bill to an extent of what I had in mind. I just don’t know how it would look level by level but I’m sure it would be pretty stellar for the party comp too. As far as cha I can have a 16 there from either a roll or 14+race and that would be perfectly fine.

I guess I just need options for good damage/good tanking ability and then some utility.

[zinycor]

Since you already played a sorcadin, what about going straight cleric? It should fit the backstory quite nicely.

[Man_Over_Game]

I will talk to him about some of the options but he usually likes to use official stuff only, not to say all homebrew is a no just that he has to proof read it and whatnot.

The more I think about this character the more confused I make myself, I have never played an Abjurer/fighter and don’t know how well they tank or damage. The pally bladesinger sounds like a blast with light armor and spear which would fit the bill to an extent of what I had in mind. I just don’t know how it would look level by level but I’m sure it would be pretty stellar for the party comp too. As far as cha I can have a 16 there from either a roll or 14+race and that would be perfectly fine.

I guess I just need options for good damage/good tanking ability and then some utility.

Tank-wise, there isn't anything more durable than an Eldritch Knight + Abjurer.

Paladin + Caster focuses more on dealing high damage.

Barbarian is tanky, just like Eldritch Knight, but the Barbarian does better against bosses while the Eldritch Knight does better against swarms. The EK is also more versatile and a bit more complicated.



I wouldn't recommend working with Bladesinger unless you're playing a build that can't use Heavy Armor. Heavy Armor is a lot easier to use and is more effecient than the Bladesong. A good example of what DOES work with Bladesinger is the Rogue or the Monk.

I wouldn't worry too much about Charisma, as the Swashbuckler uses it for some of its features. More than likely this team will need Intelligence, so my suggestion is the Eldritch Knight + Abjurer, picking up Sentinel and War Caster when you can.

If you still want to stick with Paladin, I'd say that you'd get more mileage just going straight Paladin than you would taking other levels. People tack on other classes to Paladin to increase its damage (usually through Divine Smite), but you probably just want to level straight if tankiness is more of your priority.

[Waazraath]

First of all thank you for your time.
To get to it. We are starting a new campaign starting at 2nd level there will be 3 of us.
The party: shepherd Druid, rogue going swashbuckler.

I will be playing a paladin/cleric multiclass, basically trying to tank and deal damage at times. I have read the guides and am stuck on general build/race. We rolled stats and I rolled really really well my stats are 16-16-16-16-14-13.
I am stuck with these big 3 options for race: aasimar (probably fallen), half elf, or V Human.

The back story is something akin to a blessed child sent early for a militaristic education, like a spartan legend, 7 years old trained to be the best of the best. He will be a military leader like an officer in modern military, straight from school and put in to a leadership position. It’s greyhawk and he is a devout follower of Heironious (sp?)

Now is where I’m unsure and would love for the playground to help me out. I am unsure which type of paladin to go, devotion, conquerer, or ancients. And how the race class combo could work. Then the second part is which domain to go, I was thinking protection but I’m open to ideas. Also what would the progression look like for a paladin/cleric. I’m interested in multiple builds, I plan on playing a shied and spear user so PaM is on the table. Houserules prevent some multiclass options like paladorc or sorcadin.

Thank you all in advance playground!

Edit: I forgot to add, I have 4 floating points to add to my ability scores. Any point above 16 costs 2 points. So for a 16 to go 17 costs two and 17 to 18 would be 2 more.

Your fluff fits either cleric or pally. I'd consider going single class in either of one -MAD issues aside (your ability scores are high enough), a cleric 6 really gains more from cleric 7 than from cleric 6/pally 1, and the other way around.

[Fryy]

Ah, dont dip Bladesinger for your Paladin tank. Bladesinger tanking requires Int and Dex and its not even an always-on ability. Bladesong only works with light armor, so its bad for tanking when Bladesong is not up. Feats are fun. With your high ability scores, you could max out multiple scores and still have room for feats.

For a Wizard dip, I think Abjurer would be better. Just pick wizard spells that dont rely on Int like spells that many Eldritch Knight defensive builds would pick. With your party, a wizard dip for utility spells is good. Any full caster dip would give extra spell slots for smites. The wizard spells might be more useful than clerical... and arguably just as thematic for a knight.

Most optimization guides I have read suggest to level up to Paladin 6 before any multiclassing for extra attack and auras.

[Legendairy]

Thank you all, the suggested builds and whatnot are where I’m struggling actually. I am not worried about the complexity of EK/Abjurer, how does the early mid game dpr compare?

Paladin/cleric has a lot of goodies that come on line more mid to later tiers that seem like good damage and tankiness.

With the party comp wizard would be nice to round out spell utility. Counterspell and fireball would be nice, plus the rituals and could still have the learned warrior vibe if going either ek or paladin.

MOG I know I don’t need charisma cause the rogue but these are real life friends and I am the defacto face. One of the reasons I think a sorcadin would be great....but maybe overdone. Also having to start sorc seems to gimp the builds a bit, unless I’m wrong here.

So my interest in ek/abj is what kind of damage can they put out/sustain as they aren’t nova bent?

I originally was looking at arcane cleric for warcaster/booming blade and spirit guardians. With PaM for a possible bonus action attack.

A bit about the campaign as maybe it will help, we are the resistance, mad king that needs to be displaced, we will be the group to make contact with other groups, start the revolt, get a better king crowned. But think Robin Hood and his merry men (tights optional).

I thought about ranger/cleric too going for the more espionage type character that gets put in charge of an “elite” group of espionage guys. But I’m just kind of at a loss I guess, I looked at ludicsavants guide of useful builds. The iron wizard appealed to me and the arcane cleric out the bat, I just don’t know if I can get away from the warrior class feel, ie paladin/fighter/ranger. I would even entertain barbarian builds. I have played a zealot barb in the past and loved it but they generally don’t play nice with casters unless going for a “thorns” type build with bard or lock.

I don’t have to be the tank and the face, more face than anything but I do want to cater to the party a bit and make something that can do both fairly well while adding a fair bit of damage.

Straight paladin can work but for whatever reason always seems lackluster even tho it isn’t. A conquest can fear tank very well, when things aren’t immune to fear.

[Fryy]

If you play a wizard or sorc you have to start in that class at level 1 then you can multiclass.

Ah, I see now. That's tough. It sounds like your DM does not want a wizard or sorc to get easy heavy armor proficiency with just a quick one level dip in fighter or paladin. Perhaps thats the reason for the house rule. Maybe your DM would allow the Paladins armor proficiency with a wizard multiclass if you were to go deep into both classes. It makes sense to talk with your DM about the rationale for this house rule.

[Quietus]

Another option, since my mobile vegeance pally idea wasn't super thrilling to a lot of people - I'm playing a Paladin/Bard in an AL game. 2 Paladin, the rest into Bard (College of Swords); I started with Bard because I opted to go dex based for a somewhat Errol Flynn feel, but it's also viable to start with Paladin to get heavy armor proficiency if you prefer. Two Paladin gets you proficiencies, a fighting style (defense), and Smite. Plus a little touch of Lay On Hands and some divine sense. Swords bard gets you the ability to use your sword as a focus, another fighting style (dueling, for me), and proficiency you would already have from Paladin. Plus you get Flourishes, which amounts to 10 extra feet of movement every time you attack, plus a little bit of flexibility in certain attacks round to round. Oh, and extra attack at level 6.

Added bonus : You will get Expertise, so you can push your ability to party face even higher, and Bard gives you plenty of utility.

Other options : You could take Pally to 6 for the aura and extra attack, and then go with Lore bard instead. Expertise in Athletics plus Cutting Words will make you a fiend at grappling if you want to do that, and the extra magical secrets helps round things out since you're pushing back other bard goodies this way.

[zinycor]

Since you want to be the face and tank, How about Valor Bard? In my experience they are quite strong and fun.

[Legendairy]

Bard doesn’t fit the feel/concept. I know it’s a strong utility multiclass for pally but it doesn’t feel “right”.

[Legendairy]

Another option, since my mobile vegeance pally idea wasn't super thrilling to a lot of people - I'm playing a Paladin/Bard in an AL game. 2 Paladin, the rest into Bard (College of Swords); I started with Bard because I opted to go dex based for a somewhat Errol Flynn feel, but it's also viable to start with Paladin to get heavy armor proficiency if you prefer. Two Paladin gets you proficiencies, a fighting style (defense), and Smite. Plus a little touch of Lay On Hands and some divine sense. Swords bard gets you the ability to use your sword as a focus, another fighting style (dueling, for me), and proficiency you would already have from Paladin. Plus you get Flourishes, which amounts to 10 extra feet of movement every time you attack, plus a little bit of flexibility in certain attacks round to round. Oh, and extra attack at level 6.

Added bonus : You will get Expertise, so you can push your ability to party face even higher, and Bard gives you plenty of utility.

Other options : You could take Pally to 6 for the aura and extra attack, and then go with Lore bard instead. Expertise in Athletics plus Cutting Words will make you a fiend at grappling if you want to do that, and the extra magical secrets helps round things out since you're pushing back other bard goodies this way.

I actually do like the kiting tank option a lot, but with this team comp I think they would just turn on the rogue and avoid me (or go after the Druid).

[Man_Over_Game]

EK can be nova-based, as they can combine buffs with Action Surge. Something like Shadow Blade + 4-6 attacks in a turn is enough to make a Paladin jealous.

If you want to stay as the Face of the party, but you don't want to go Sorcerer/Paladin because it's overdone, consider Paladin/Warlock. You can either go Fiend for the temporary hitpoints and passive benefits, or you can go Hexblade for the Shield spell and the Bonus Action buff. The difference is that Hexblade makes you better against bosses, while Fiend makes you better against swarms.

Warlocks provide more sustainability than Sorcerers, providing more Smites and spells per day.

[zinycor]

Bard doesn’t fit the feel/concept. I know it’s a strong utility multiclass for pally but it doesn’t feel “right”.

As you wish. I do feel that it fits perfectly, but is your character, if you don't feel it, that's enough.

Question: how about just paladin? That's a very strong option.

[paladinn]

I'm a huge fan of "just paladins" (my name might be a hint); but the RAW just give soo much benefit to dipping or MC'ing with sorcerer and/or warlock. Between being CHA-SAD and the best ranged attack cantrip in the game (Hexblade) to getting more healing, shield and fireball (Divine Soul), it's Really hard to resist the temptation to go sor(loc)adin.

Even going straight paladin, I'd be tempted to grab Magic Initiate to get eldritch blast, even without the invocations. Paladins need something besides "throw a javelin" for a ranged attack. But that's just me.

[Quietus]

I actually do like the kiting tank option a lot, but with this team comp I think they would just turn on the rogue and avoid me (or go after the Druid).

The idea is that after taking that AoO, because you have sentinel, their speed drops to zero. They're locked in place, and you use the movement to get up in the way of people trying to reach your squishy friends. Might only work during early combat when the enemy is still approaching, but one turn of that dude doing zero damage can turn the tide of a battle, when combats last around three rounds.

[Legendairy]

The idea is that after taking that AoO, because you have sentinel, their speed drops to zero. They're locked in place, and you use the movement to get up in the way of people trying to reach your squishy friends. Might only work during early combat when the enemy is still approaching, but one turn of that dude doing zero damage can turn the tide of a battle, when combats last around three rounds.

No no I absolutely get it, like a skirmish lock down tank, the problem is the others in the group not spacing out and me trying to cover too much ground, might not be a concern. I could see the rogue moving into and not bonus disengage then he gets beat on cause things are in his area. I know I can’t fix that situation but that’s why I wonder if like a cleric/pally with spirit guardians to punish them while they stay there or a conquest pally using fear (if they aren’t immune) or some other type of “tank” might do it better.

Don’t get me wrong I love the idea behind it and will want to play it soon I’m sure lol, I just don’t know if it works for this group.

[Nidgit]

Heads up, you can't use Booming Blade and a BA PAM attack on the same turn. Booming Blade is casting a cantrip as an action that just happens to involve making a melee attack, whereas the PAM bonus action attack requires you to take the Attack action.

I think the real question is, do you want your character to primarily be a Cleric or a Paladin? Your envisioned backstory could easily work for a Conquest or Devotion Paladin, or a War Cleric. A Shepherd Druid is already quite good at support, so you shouldn't feel the need to be a Cleric to help your party. And the expected Conjured Animals will make for an excellent front line, so you probably don't need to worry too much about locking down enemies either.

It's also worth noting that you don't need to focus on being the party face. The Swashbuckler should eventually be investing in Charisma, and with plenty of skills for them to work with, you'll probably be fine not bothering with it. Your stats are good enough that you could easily lean into being a 14/6 Cleric/Paladin or even an 18/2 Cleric/Paladin without any balance issues.

Basically, as long as you're a tank with some firepower, you'll be fine!

[Legendairy]

Heads up, you can't use Booming Blade and a BA PAM attack on the same turn. Booming Blade is casting a cantrip as an action that just happens to involve making a melee attack, whereas the PAM bonus action attack requires you to take the Attack action.

I think the real question is, do you want your character to primarily be a Cleric or a Paladin? Your envisioned backstory could easily work for a Conquest or Devotion Paladin, or a War Cleric. A Shepherd Druid is already quite good at support, so you shouldn't feel the need to be a Cleric to help your party. And the expected Conjured Animals will make for an excellent front line, so you probably don't need to worry too much about locking down enemies either.

It's also worth noting that you don't need to focus on being the party face. The Swashbuckler should eventually be investing in Charisma, and with plenty of skills for them to work with, you'll probably be fine not bothering with it. Your stats are good enough that you could easily lean into being a 14/6 Cleric/Paladin or even an 18/2 Cleric/Paladin without any balance issues.

Basically, as long as you're a tank with some firepower, you'll be fine!

Ive never been in a group with a shepherd Druid so this helps me out a bit, maybe I’m trying to do too much all at once and it’s feeling disjointed.
As for the face aspect, our dm likes you to talk and explain things as the face not just roll skills (not implying you said one way or another). And the player in question will not be doing any of those things lol. He is out going and fun but hates being the face in a group and will personally sabatoge things if put there because he “doesn’t like to be the face”. We will be having a lot of diplomatic rp and situations from what I gather with talking to the dm, so I get to be face, which I don’t mind but they kind of picked me for it too.

[Nidgit]

Ive never been in a group with a shepherd Druid so this helps me out a bit, maybe I’m trying to do too much all at once and it’s feeling disjointed.
As for the face aspect, our dm likes you to talk and explain things as the face not just roll skills (not implying you said one way or another). And the player in question will not be doing any of those things lol. He is out going and fun but hates being the face in a group and will personally sabatoge things if put there because he “doesn’t like to be the face”. We will be having a lot of diplomatic rp and situations from what I gather with talking to the dm, so I get to be face, which I don’t mind but they kind of picked me for it too.
Well that's rather rude lol. Any chance you can convince your Rogue to be an Arcane Trickster instead? There will be very few instances where he's attacking alone in melee, so he'd basically be trading a free Disengage for some spellcasting. More than fair if you ask me! And better utility for INT skills.

In that case, I'd definitely lean into Paladin more than Cleric. Conquest gives you the most bang for your Charisma buck, but Ancients' aura is a fantastic precaution against the logical response to a swarm of wolves (AoE spells). Vengeance is pretty great too for tying up bosses while the other two party members clean house.

As a bit of a weird choice, Redemption Paladin is undisputable the best face of the bunch and has some Cleric functionality is protecting allies. I know it's not really the flavor you're aiming for, but it's worth considering anyway.

[Legendairy]

So rude lol.

I agree, just hope things aren’t fear resistant/immune for conquest. Others all have their merits. I’m just lost 25 yrs of gaming and I’ve never had an issue like this lol