JeenLeen
2019-07-08, 10:55 AM
This has become a place where I'm consolidating my homebrew, so editing in a link to Metanoia, Archangel of Redemption: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582267-In-Nomine-Metanoia-Archangel-of-Redemption
In In Nomine, celestials can hear Noise (disturbance to the world via celestial action).
I find the core rules rather convoluted in play, since they depend on each individual being's distance (in yards) from the Noise and Perception stat. While not too hard to calculate, it still seems a lot of work, especially if a GM wants to be rather fair about if enemy forces heard something.
Also, while I didn't do the math, I'm not sure if the math examples in the rulebook go along with the fluff.
So I decided to make something easier, with a few guiding points.
the rule books says "Noticing that an angel across town just spent a point of essence is impossible, but hearing a demon kill a human a mile away is possible for the perceptive."
in a game I was in, really loud events in Los Angeles were heard in Las Vegas. That is about 270 miles. I want to keep that similar.
So here's the houserules
Once you detect Noise, you can hear an echo of it for Perception + Noise minutes.
If you reach the center of the Noise, you can then trace the echo to who caused it. If there are multiple causes, roll Perception again. If you succeed, you find a number of traces equal to the check digit or the number of causers, whichever is lower. Pick one. A failure has no effect unless the check digit is a 6, in which case you find a false lead.
It's hard to trace multiple Echos at the same time. You can remember the "ring" of up to Ethereal Forces echos at a time, but if you hear a new one you have to forget an old one.
Small acts by a celestial -- breaking a wine glass, punching a wall (making a dent or crack, but not breaking it or really damaging the infrastructure), slapping a human (but not doing Hits) -- make 0 Noise. It can be heard, but mechanically has little effect.
Enter/Leaving the Corporeal Plane and Appearance of a Superior have their Noise halved at a Tether. Metaphysically, the tie to Heaven or Hell makes it easier for a being to enter there, so it makes less disturbance. (Metagame/narrative reason: such things happen, and should be able to without massive disruptions, so doing it a Tether seems to make sense. Also may say Superiors only make Noise in response to an Invocation. That seems the intent, and it seem unfair to screw the players with a 20 or 30-Noise burst if their boss shows up because the DM thinks they should. At least, unless the Noise is part of a punishment for poor performance.)
I think this is implied RAI, but hurting a human does make Noise. I'll say 1 Noise per attack, up to a limit of their Corporeal Forces in a scene.
Undead do count as human for the purpose of doing damage, but not for "Killing a Human". That is, you do Noise for damaging them, but no burst of 10 Noise for killing.
And, not really a Noise note, but the only humans that can see celestial forms are those with Perception 5+ or Symphonically-aware. This seems in line with the idea that not just anyone can see an angel or demon flying around, but some do. A human who sees someone go celestial can roll to perceive the new form, even if they normally could not. (If they succeed, they can always roll to detect celestials from then on, as they have experience perceiving it.)
Consequently, I could see letting Shedim of Nightmares be perceived at lower Perceptions, since part of their deal is being perceived as monstrosities.
Celestials, ethereals, and Symphonically-aware humans can sense Noise.
How far Noise can be heard depends on the amount.
0 = within a few feet (e.g., the current scene, close)
1 = 50 feet
2 = 200 feet
3 = 250 feet
...and so on, +50 feet until
10 = 1 mile
11 = 1 mile, 100 feet
12 = 1 mile, 200 feet
...and so on, +100 feet until
20 = 10 miles
21 = 11 miles
22 = 12 miles
...and so on, +1 mile until
100 = 100 miles
101 = 101 miles
...and so on, +1 mile per Noise
So, at about 300 Noise, you could hear sometime from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
This is also precisely that killing a person (10 Noise) can be heard 1 mile away.
The TN for the Perception roll to hear the Noise is:
Perception + X - Y,
where
X = number of events causing the Noise, or the Noise, whichever is lower
Y = number of miles from the epicenter, rounding down (so for less than a mile, this is 0)
To take the example from the book: a demon, in a rage kills someone in one hit. The human has 3 Corporeal Forces and is dead, so that is 3 + 10 Noise. 13 Noise can be heard 1 mile, 300 feet away.
The average Celestial has 6 Perception, so the average TN would be 6 + 1 (since one event killed the person) - 1 (since it's over 1 mile away). So a base TN of 6 to hear. Not easy, but not terrible. And very perceptive celestials (Perception 10-12) have a good chance of hearing it.
For the check digit: it seems implied by the rules that, for Sensing Noise, you do not add the TN amount above 12 to the check digit, as you do for other stuff. So making that explicit. Also adding that, even on a 1, you can sense roughly how far away the Noise is. E.g., "close" (within 50 miles), to ranges of how far in about 50 mile increments. Mainly I want just about anyone to be able to tell a Noise they hear is either close or next-city range.
Thoughts?
The fluff states that every action a celestial takes on earth makes some Noise. It even implies that emotional damage or spiritual distress makes some sort of Ethereal or Celestial Noise, whereas most Noise is... I guess Corporeal Noise? The rules don't really go into it, just one line of description.
Ethereal and Celestial Noise, if it's a thing, can only be sensed by Superiors (or equivalently-powerful ethereals, if any still exist). It's just beyond normal celestials.
For what we normally mean by Noise: "truly small Noise" like bending blades of grass and damaging them as you walk, or chewing food, is perceptible but only to the celestial doing it or maybe at someone at literally touching range. DM and group can decide on the actual metaphysics of it. I like this in order to have angels or demons who, if they want to be real sticklers about Noise, might avoid eating to avoid the disturbance. But I don't want to punish players either.
So basically just an RP thing, and no rolling required for an angel to sense itself chewing a sandwich.
For humor or seriousness, I could see some groups making some eating level 0 Noise that others can hear. Like, chew some soft fruit, no Noise. Chew up a really crunchy biscuit... 0 Noise, as that takes more work to damage the physical construct that is a tough biscuit.
I wouldn't enjoy it personally, but a 'sidebar' option.
And for rules-lawyers: chewing food is okay because food is meant to be chewed, and an angel in an earthly vessel (even without a Role) has enough of a sense of placement in the Symphony that it can eat food. Maybe that's why walking on the ground doesn't make Noise, too? They could also open a soda can or beer bottle without Noise; it's just manipulating it as intended, not really 'damaging' the corporeal Thing.
Consequently, I could say that using an alien, monstrous form always generates 0 Noise if you make even the slightest disruption to things in the world.
Also consequently: I could see Servitors of Revelation shy away from eating, for the purpose that it's close to using a Role. Though it wouldn't be actually dissonant, since it's just a side-effect of having a vessel.
In In Nomine, celestials can hear Noise (disturbance to the world via celestial action).
I find the core rules rather convoluted in play, since they depend on each individual being's distance (in yards) from the Noise and Perception stat. While not too hard to calculate, it still seems a lot of work, especially if a GM wants to be rather fair about if enemy forces heard something.
Also, while I didn't do the math, I'm not sure if the math examples in the rulebook go along with the fluff.
So I decided to make something easier, with a few guiding points.
the rule books says "Noticing that an angel across town just spent a point of essence is impossible, but hearing a demon kill a human a mile away is possible for the perceptive."
in a game I was in, really loud events in Los Angeles were heard in Las Vegas. That is about 270 miles. I want to keep that similar.
So here's the houserules
Once you detect Noise, you can hear an echo of it for Perception + Noise minutes.
If you reach the center of the Noise, you can then trace the echo to who caused it. If there are multiple causes, roll Perception again. If you succeed, you find a number of traces equal to the check digit or the number of causers, whichever is lower. Pick one. A failure has no effect unless the check digit is a 6, in which case you find a false lead.
It's hard to trace multiple Echos at the same time. You can remember the "ring" of up to Ethereal Forces echos at a time, but if you hear a new one you have to forget an old one.
Small acts by a celestial -- breaking a wine glass, punching a wall (making a dent or crack, but not breaking it or really damaging the infrastructure), slapping a human (but not doing Hits) -- make 0 Noise. It can be heard, but mechanically has little effect.
Enter/Leaving the Corporeal Plane and Appearance of a Superior have their Noise halved at a Tether. Metaphysically, the tie to Heaven or Hell makes it easier for a being to enter there, so it makes less disturbance. (Metagame/narrative reason: such things happen, and should be able to without massive disruptions, so doing it a Tether seems to make sense. Also may say Superiors only make Noise in response to an Invocation. That seems the intent, and it seem unfair to screw the players with a 20 or 30-Noise burst if their boss shows up because the DM thinks they should. At least, unless the Noise is part of a punishment for poor performance.)
I think this is implied RAI, but hurting a human does make Noise. I'll say 1 Noise per attack, up to a limit of their Corporeal Forces in a scene.
Undead do count as human for the purpose of doing damage, but not for "Killing a Human". That is, you do Noise for damaging them, but no burst of 10 Noise for killing.
And, not really a Noise note, but the only humans that can see celestial forms are those with Perception 5+ or Symphonically-aware. This seems in line with the idea that not just anyone can see an angel or demon flying around, but some do. A human who sees someone go celestial can roll to perceive the new form, even if they normally could not. (If they succeed, they can always roll to detect celestials from then on, as they have experience perceiving it.)
Consequently, I could see letting Shedim of Nightmares be perceived at lower Perceptions, since part of their deal is being perceived as monstrosities.
Celestials, ethereals, and Symphonically-aware humans can sense Noise.
How far Noise can be heard depends on the amount.
0 = within a few feet (e.g., the current scene, close)
1 = 50 feet
2 = 200 feet
3 = 250 feet
...and so on, +50 feet until
10 = 1 mile
11 = 1 mile, 100 feet
12 = 1 mile, 200 feet
...and so on, +100 feet until
20 = 10 miles
21 = 11 miles
22 = 12 miles
...and so on, +1 mile until
100 = 100 miles
101 = 101 miles
...and so on, +1 mile per Noise
So, at about 300 Noise, you could hear sometime from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
This is also precisely that killing a person (10 Noise) can be heard 1 mile away.
The TN for the Perception roll to hear the Noise is:
Perception + X - Y,
where
X = number of events causing the Noise, or the Noise, whichever is lower
Y = number of miles from the epicenter, rounding down (so for less than a mile, this is 0)
To take the example from the book: a demon, in a rage kills someone in one hit. The human has 3 Corporeal Forces and is dead, so that is 3 + 10 Noise. 13 Noise can be heard 1 mile, 300 feet away.
The average Celestial has 6 Perception, so the average TN would be 6 + 1 (since one event killed the person) - 1 (since it's over 1 mile away). So a base TN of 6 to hear. Not easy, but not terrible. And very perceptive celestials (Perception 10-12) have a good chance of hearing it.
For the check digit: it seems implied by the rules that, for Sensing Noise, you do not add the TN amount above 12 to the check digit, as you do for other stuff. So making that explicit. Also adding that, even on a 1, you can sense roughly how far away the Noise is. E.g., "close" (within 50 miles), to ranges of how far in about 50 mile increments. Mainly I want just about anyone to be able to tell a Noise they hear is either close or next-city range.
Thoughts?
The fluff states that every action a celestial takes on earth makes some Noise. It even implies that emotional damage or spiritual distress makes some sort of Ethereal or Celestial Noise, whereas most Noise is... I guess Corporeal Noise? The rules don't really go into it, just one line of description.
Ethereal and Celestial Noise, if it's a thing, can only be sensed by Superiors (or equivalently-powerful ethereals, if any still exist). It's just beyond normal celestials.
For what we normally mean by Noise: "truly small Noise" like bending blades of grass and damaging them as you walk, or chewing food, is perceptible but only to the celestial doing it or maybe at someone at literally touching range. DM and group can decide on the actual metaphysics of it. I like this in order to have angels or demons who, if they want to be real sticklers about Noise, might avoid eating to avoid the disturbance. But I don't want to punish players either.
So basically just an RP thing, and no rolling required for an angel to sense itself chewing a sandwich.
For humor or seriousness, I could see some groups making some eating level 0 Noise that others can hear. Like, chew some soft fruit, no Noise. Chew up a really crunchy biscuit... 0 Noise, as that takes more work to damage the physical construct that is a tough biscuit.
I wouldn't enjoy it personally, but a 'sidebar' option.
And for rules-lawyers: chewing food is okay because food is meant to be chewed, and an angel in an earthly vessel (even without a Role) has enough of a sense of placement in the Symphony that it can eat food. Maybe that's why walking on the ground doesn't make Noise, too? They could also open a soda can or beer bottle without Noise; it's just manipulating it as intended, not really 'damaging' the corporeal Thing.
Consequently, I could say that using an alien, monstrous form always generates 0 Noise if you make even the slightest disruption to things in the world.
Also consequently: I could see Servitors of Revelation shy away from eating, for the purpose that it's close to using a Role. Though it wouldn't be actually dissonant, since it's just a side-effect of having a vessel.