It's possible to farm experience using Planar Binding?

[Conradine]

Cadderly ( Forgotten Realms ) once summoned a demon then kicked his ass for threatening his family.

It's possible to conjure Outsiders and kill them in order to farm xp?

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I mean technically possible, next to no DM would allow that.

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Similar question: would be possible to use Summon Monster for friendly sparring with a variety of opponents?

[Venger]

any spell you cast is part of your cr. you are not entitled to experience from it.

[unseenmage]

Yes. Using the Transference (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) spell and some diplomacy.
And Diplomacy I mean level drain.

[Crake]

any spell you cast is part of your cr. you are not entitled to experience from it.

There's actually a discussion about this in another thread, but I'd be inclined to heavily disagree with the first part of this statement. Spell effects are part of your CR, like summoned creatures, but an instantaneous spell that creates/conjures a living creature is no longer a spell effect, and the creature is it's own entity and has it's own CR, even if it's under your command/control.

[Venger]

There's actually a discussion about this in another thread, but I'd be inclined to heavily disagree with the first part of this statement. Spell effects are part of your CR, like summoned creatures, but an instantaneous spell that creates/conjures a living creature is no longer a spell effect, and the creature is it's own entity and has it's own CR, even if it's under your command/control.

Mind linking me? This is something of interest to me.

In actual play, I certainly agree with you. When running a module where an enemy has planar bound a monster to fight the pcs also, for example, I ignore the rules and factor the monster in for the purposes of xp since it can't be dispelled like a summon.

As far as RAW goes though, I thought it was pretty clear that anything a creature does as a result of spells was factored into its CR.

The fact that the creature is under your command/control also obviously plays in here, since if it looks like you're losing, you can use your safeword, so you're in no danger of being killed, like you would be in a real encounter. consequently, I can't see any real dm giving you xp for fighting one of your own monsters.

[Crake]

Mind linking me? This is something of interest to me.

In actual play, I certainly agree with you. When running a module where an enemy has planar bound a monster to fight the pcs also, for example, I ignore the rules and factor the monster in for the purposes of xp since it can't be dispelled like a summon.

As far as RAW goes though, I thought it was pretty clear that anything a creature does as a result of spells was factored into its CR.

The fact that the creature is under your command/control also obviously plays in here, since if it looks like you're losing, you can use your safeword, so you're in no danger of being killed, like you would be in a real encounter. consequently, I can't see any real dm giving you xp for fighting one of your own monsters.

This is the thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592086-XP-BBG-and-created-summoned-pet-minions). I would also agree with you regarding killing your own summons, because it's not really a theat, I was more talking from the perspective of someone else's minions. The way I see it is: would the creature you're fighting give xp if the creator/summoner wasn't there? If yes, then they should give xp normally.

[Venger]

This is the thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592086-XP-BBG-and-created-summoned-pet-minions). I would also agree with you regarding killing your own summons, because it's not really a theat, I was more talking from the perspective of someone else's minions. The way I see it is: would the creature you're fighting give xp if the creator/summoner wasn't there? If yes, then they should give xp normally.

Yes, I agree. I just don't think you could do should be able to do it to your own summons, and don't think you can by raw

[Bphill561]

You might get xp the first time especially if it turns into a party encounter, but I don't see how a DM will let you farm away. Sort of like getting xp for bandaging a wound and then ripping it off to redo for more points. Plus if you start preparing in advance of each casting, the encounter will not really be much of threat so again it should not warrant a challenging encounter.

[Conradine]

But it's absolutely necessary to risk life to get xp?

[Crake]

But it's absolutely necessary to risk life to get xp?

I want to make sure it's clear, there's no technically possible when it comes to the dungeon master's guide. Not dungeon master's rulebook, dungeon master's guide. Ultimately it comes down to your DM on what gives you xp, nobody else. If your DM thinks that summoning a creature, and just beating up on it should give you xp, then you get xp. If your DM thinks you shouldn't, then you don't.

And sure, you might not need to necessarily risk your life to get xp, there are social encounters, story-based xp, and hell, even non-lethal combat encounters. XP isn't granted for "winning a combat", it's for "overcoming an obstacle", this is why sneaking past a minotaur to get to the treasure awards just as much xp as killing the minotaur. When you fight a creature you summoned yourself however, you're not overcoming an obstacle, you're just fighting for the sake of fighting.

[Conradine]

When you fight a creature you summoned yourself however, you're not overcoming an obstacle, you're just fighting for the sake of fighting.


But summoning a large variety of monsters means having the chance to confront to a variety of powers and attacks that you would probably never meet in the "real" ( fantasy ) world.

Also it allows for tactic experimentation that would be too dangerous in real fight.

[Andreaz]

I don't see any gain from arguing which rules apply for this to happen. Either your DM lets you or he doesn't.

[Âmesang]

The title page of Chapter 3 of the Epic Level Handbook seems to bring this up:

"Mermorsir's Guide to Epic Challengers — Chapter 17: How to summon and defeat a Balor, diffusing its wealth to raise one's station and increase your holdings."

[lord_khaine]

But summoning a large variety of monsters means having the chance to confront to a variety of powers and attacks that you would probably never meet in the "real" ( fantasy ) world.

Also it allows for tactic experimentation that would be too dangerous in real fight.

Yes but following that reasoning you could just as well get those xp from training with the rest of your party.

[MisterKaws]

If you ready a bunch of spells to kill it immediately after it's summoned, that's no challenge.if you summon a level- appropriate threat and overcome it on a fair duel? Sure. There has to be some way those wizards train their apprentices. Not everyone trains by being a murderhobo, y'know?

[Conradine]

Yes but following that reasoning you could just as well get those xp from training with the rest of your party.

Yes, a bit. But much less.
There are usually 5 party members but literally hundreds of different Outsiders ( thousands, if you count fiendish templates of more mundane enemies ).

[Jack_Simth]

Cadderly ( Forgotten Realms ) once summoned a demon then kicked his ass for threatening his family.

It's possible to conjure Outsiders and kill them in order to farm xp?

---

I mean technically possible, next to no DM would allow that.

---

Similar question: would be possible to use Summon Monster for friendly sparring with a variety of opponents?

If your DM allows it, sure. Few would.

Some things that make it more likely that a DM will permit it (at least the first time):
1) When you bind the critter: Don't control it. Use something from the Planar Binding line, but don't do the magic circle spell, don't use Dimensional Anchor, et cetera.
2) Don't do lots of preparation. Don't get all your buddies sitting there with readied actions to gank it the moment it appears. Don't have a prepared trap there to zap it on arrival. Don't prepare a bunch of spells specific to the outsider in question. Et cetera.

[Psyren]

But it's absolutely necessary to risk life to get xp?

It's necessary to overcome a challenge to get XP. Binding something then telling it to lie back and think of England Baator while the party wails on it with impunity isn't really a challenge.

[False God]

Possibly, though your DM may throw a book at you.

But look at all the conditionals on Planar Binding.

First the target has to fail a save to be drawn to the trap.
Then you have to beat the target's SR (assuming it has any) to bind it in the trap. (assuming it doesn't just teleport out or win it's own check against your trap)
--it is, for a brief moment, summoned and unbound.
Assuming you win, now it's bound to the trap, but not to your will. Now you have to employ diplomacy (literally, the skill) to get it to agree to sit down and die for you.
--Of course you can just attack it now, and while it's bound to the circle that doesn't mean it can't fight you.

Honestly this seems like a really overly complex way to do things and a really poor way to "farm" XP.

[Conradine]

I didn't thought for a second to command the outsider to "lie down".

More like " I challenge you, defend yourself if you can".