Greedy Party Member

[Stallrein]

For context, the party just finished a dungeon and the party rogue found a coin purse with 1,000gp in it. He decided to roll a SoH check (22, so nobody actually saw him take it) and then not tell the rest of the party of the earnings.

How do I incentivize him to share the gold with the rest of the party? I originally thought they would just share it and divide it evenly amongst themselves (5 players, 200gp per person).

[Aett_Thorn]

Is this in the Rogue character’s...character? I mean, does this action make sense given the Rogue’s prior actions, and his/her ideals, bonds, and flaws?

If so, there isn’t much that you should do. If it isn’t, you should probably talk to the player about why their character would do this.

[Man_Over_Game]

For context, the party just finished a dungeon and the party rogue found a coin purse with 1,000gp in it. He decided to roll a SoH check (22, so nobody actually saw him take it) and then not tell the rest of the party of the earnings.

How do I incentivize him to share the gold with the rest of the party? I originally thought they would just share it and divide it evenly amongst themselves (5 players, 200gp per person).

Reward things that make the game more fun for everyone. This might mean something like charity. When someone happens to be charitable, make a show of it by providing Inspiration for their good deeds. 1000g for one person, or 1000g for the team + Inspiration for one person. Which comes out ahead?

The other solution is to not provide options to actually spend the gold. Make the things that they can spend gold on be inaccessible. No magic items, no improved gear. Even the standard stuff, like tools and poisons, are in short supply. The Rogue can deck himself out for 200g, and then he'll be sitting on 800g that's doing him no good. That, or make the only items that would be available are ones that only other players can use, for example, spell focuses, Wizard rituals, strength based weapons, and heavy armor. Maybe there's a thief going around stealing his equipment instead of paying for it, so the only gear available is the stuff that's hard to steal or useless to thieves.

If you want him to not be selfish, the solution is to not make it worthwhile.

[Chaelos]

Ugh--people who think D&D should be PVP like this are the worst kinds of players. My guess is, if the Rogue is pulling this kind of thing, there's probably other things he's doing to be "edgy" with the excuse of "But that's what my character would do!"

Your best bet is to talk to the player OOC and try to reason with him. If the player persists in douchery, I'm not above using enemies' targeting decisions as a kind of "enforced karma" approach--and when Greedy Rogue is knocked unconscious or is hit by an attack, narrate his coin purse falling out of his pouch and spilling on the ground. See if anyone is willing to heal him then.

[GlenSmash!]

Are the other players upset? Then talk about it out of game.

[Corran]

Are the other players upset? Then talk about it out of game.
This. By far the best way to handle it imo.

Plus, remember that you are the one calling for ability checks. It is within your discretion if sth is an automatic success or an automatic failure, or if it could go either way and so you would need a roll from the player.

[Honest Tiefling]

Are the other players upset? Then talk about it out of game.

This isn't a bad idea. Over the course of the game, a 1000 gold might not mean much, but best to stop behavior like this if no one wants to deal with PvP behavior, and a lot of people will define this as PvP behavior. Probably because it might snowball into larger things, or it can just tank the mood of the game.

And if you don't want players sabotaging, stealing or keeping secrets that shouldn't be kept for OoC reasons, why deal with it IC?

[Man_Over_Game]

And if you don't want players sabotaging, stealing or keeping secrets that shouldn't be kept for OoC reasons, why deal with it IC?

Good advice for anything, really. Player problems shouldn't be solved in-character.

[Demonslayer666]

I do allow my players to split loot by roleplaying it out, but the party should be right there looting at the same time - as in there is no time to hide it after you find it unless they aren't there. I would flat out say no most of the time, and say one of the party would notice you if you tried. I would imagine that 1000 coins in a purse would be difficult to palm.

Might allow an insight check for the other party members, or they may automatically notice the rogue is hiding something.

They could also notice the large amount of extra cash the rogue has, either by seeing it, or noticing the shiny new stuff he buys with it.

[fbelanger]

The good question to ask is
Is he a greedy player, or is he playing a greedy character?

[Trickery]

Sure would be a shame if some of those gold coins were cursed.

[Lord Vukodlak]

This reminds me of a similar story only the rogue died and the party being to poor to pay to have him raised simply buried him with honors. They did not loot his corpse feeling that doing so to a friend would be disrespectful.

[Man_Over_Game]

This reminds me of a similar story only the rogue died and the party being to poor to pay to have him raised simply buried him with honors. They did not loot his corpse feeling that doing so to a friend would be disrespectful.

A surprisingly good, ironic, moral story in less than 50 words.

[GlenSmash!]

This isn't a bad idea. Over the course of the game, a 1000 gold might not mean much, but best to stop behavior like this if no one wants to deal with PvP behavior, and a lot of people will define this as PvP behavior. Probably because it might snowball into larger things, or it can just tank the mood of the game.

And if you don't want players sabotaging, stealing or keeping secrets that shouldn't be kept for OoC reasons, why deal with it IC?

Finding this kind of thing out earlier is indeed better than later. In fact a report of player behavior like this rubbing a DM the wrong way usually indicates to me that a conversation was missed in session 0.

Now in my own game I did try something different: when players find currency I just round it all up to the nearest gold piece and divide the total by the number of characters in the party and say "You each get X amount of gold pieces" just like I would with XP.

It works fine, but is kind of a headache.

[CapnWildefyr]

A rogue being a rogue is to be expected, even commended if its in character. Next game, apologize and tell him that 1000 gp don't fit in a belt pouch, there had to have been 4 of them. He could only swipe one with one roll, if he wants he can try for the others but it would be at disadvantage. The others might see him. He should end up with more gold than the others, but they still get some cash too. Maybe toss in a small gem this time too, then next time plan ahead. Just a thought.

[darknite]

Sure, the other PCs don't know about it but the players should. Sounds like someone's PC will find themselves unsupported in upcoming combats...

[CorporateSlave]

Is this in the Rogue character’s...character?

This kind of sounds like the sort of thing a rogue would generally do if they could get away with it? I'm assuming that there wasn't much pre-discussion or character backstory in this campaign, or wouldn't the DM have known this particular PC would be up to this sort of tomfoolery. At some point he'll fail a SoH check and the party will probably watch him like a hawk after that. Fair enough. And granted if you did tell everyone about the party dynamic you expected (no secretly Evil aligned characters, a "team" concept, whatever) and the player is doing this to push against your soft "rules" that's something else, and maybe talk to them OOG.

But if it is just you wishing your players acted in line with your expectations and not actually role play their PC's as they see fit, maybe you should just kick them all out and replace them with a party of NPCs?

My point to the OP is this: who are you trying to "incentivize" here? The player or the PC? Sounds to me like the player is just role-playing their PC correctly. (although we don't really have enough background info to know for sure). Frankly, I think either is a mistake. You're the DM. Rather than trying to take player agency away by telling them they are role-playing wrong, try the engineering solution first? Just don't make ALL the treasure so easy* to SoH pocket, problem solved! The Player can still have his PC try to pocket a bit extra here and there, without bankrupting the party.

*BTW, that was a heck of a SoH check he made sneakily pocketing a 20 pound "purse" of 1000 gold coins! Where did he hide the 20 lbs of 1000 clanking coins on his person long term?


Sure, the other PCs don't know about it but the players should. Sounds like someone's PC will find themselves unsupported in upcoming combats...

Ah, a fine meta-game solution that will surely cause nothing but resentment. If only the players know, then exactly why would their characters act against the rogue PC?

[Draconi Redfir]

don't punish a player for playing to his character's strengths. he's good at stealing, so he stole. punishing that is just going to leave the player resentful and feeling like they can't do anything fun.

just have the fighter or cleric or whatnot find a bag with four gemstones, each worth 1,200gp or more, an have it split among the remaining non-rogue players.


or to more easily do it, set up a room where there are five hallways, each only large enough for one person, with a door that closes immediately behind the first person who enters it. at the end of each hallway is a lever that opens the doors, plus opens the path forwards. at the end of the other four party member's halls is the 1,200gp+ gemstone. at the end of the Rogue's hall, is a gemstone worth 50-100gp, it's damaged or something idk. hand out these gemstones in private notes, so nobody knows exactly how much they're worth or who's getting what. leave a note on them saying that those are theirs to keep, and they don't have to share or tell anyone about them if they don't want too.

trap the halls with something each specific character can easily overcome, or don't. that part is up to you.

[dgnslyr]

For context, the party just finished a dungeon and the party rogue found a coin purse with 1,000gp in it. He decided to roll a SoH check (22, so nobody actually saw him take it) and then not tell the rest of the party of the earnings.

How do I incentivize him to share the gold with the rest of the party? I originally thought they would just share it and divide it evenly amongst themselves (5 players, 200gp per person).

If it's something character-progression related like gold, especially if it's earned through a party-wide effort like finishing a quest or dungeon, then I as DM would just distribute it evenly at the end. As in, "the party found treasure worth a total of 2,000 gold, so that's 400 for each of you." The rogue can hide the coin purse from the other characters, but they can't hide it from the other players, and it's kind of ridiculous to try. For comparison, it would also be kind of ridiculous to award one player extra EXP and level them up faster for going off on their own and resolving encounters without the party.

Ultimately, as DM, you're responsible for your table and your game, and your decisions can either encourage or discourage your players to do certain things. If you "reward" the rogue by letting them keep the entire coin purse for themselves, then they'll be encouraged to keep doing it. If you reward players for backstabbing each other for extra gold and treasure, then that's the kind of game you'll have. So you should decide what kind of game you want to run, and ask your players what kind of game they want to play, and run a campaign that encourages the actions people want to take.

[Aprender]

A lot of great suggestions, with "talk to the players" away from table being the best.

Then cast "Awakened" on the rogue player. Unless you explicitly allow PVP at the table, it needs to be explicitly disallowed.

The fastest way to disgruntl players is to fake die rolls, but only slightly less well known is to allow players to D*** each other over.

[Lunali]

I do allow my players to split loot by roleplaying it out, but the party should be right there looting at the same time - as in there is no time to hide it after you find it unless they aren't there. I would flat out say no most of the time, and say one of the party would notice you if you tried. I would imagine that 1000 coins in a purse would be difficult to palm.

Might allow an insight check for the other party members, or they may automatically notice the rogue is hiding something.

They could also notice the large amount of extra cash the rogue has, either by seeing it, or noticing the shiny new stuff he buys with it.

To elaborate on this, 1000 coins is 20lbs of gold, and would be large enough to be a noticeable bulge in clothes or very uncomfortable under armor. If the rest of the party isn't present, you can probably hide it in your pack or something, but if anyone else is around, you're going to need a good roll and a good hiding place if you want me to believe you can hide it without them noticing.

[Sigreid]

You really should start with "does the rest of the party care?". It's pretend money taken by a pretend person in a pretend world. The rest of the players may consider it all good fun, in which case there is no issue really. If it bothers the other players, then the group needs to have a discussion about the kind of game they want to play rather than you as a DM simply imposing your will on the group.

[Tawmis]

Everyone has some great ideas here.

One thing, I feel like - a lot of people thing all rogues do is steal. And that a Rogue stealing a bunch of gold and not sharing is a "Rogue thing to do."
When in truth, not all Rogues are just a "steal and keep for myself" - because not every Rogue is inherently "greedy."
Some people become Rogues for the challenge of trying to steal a painting. Once they do it, they throw in the trash. It was more of, "Can I do it" vs "I do it because I'm a thief and I steal things. And keep it."

One thing that I think you should look at is the Rogue's character - more than just their class. Look at their flaws and such (ideally filled out for 5e) which helps "define" their character. If they picked a Rogue, and wrote a backstory that they grew up poor - then, I can see that Rogue hoarding gold for themselves. They spent their entire lives never knowing when that next meal might come. But if it's a Rogue who is doing it because they never felt challenged, then I'd feel that they would share, because once they snaked the gold and the party didn't see - the Rogue's proved he's better than the rest.

Now, one thing I do is slide a note to the the Rogue I DM for, that will say how much they find. And I leave it to the Rogue to say how much she shares. If it's five people, and she finds five hundred gold (per the note) but tells the party she only found 50 gold, I say go for it.

But punishing a Rogue because they kept the money, is like punishing a Barbarian because they did more damage than the fighter in the party - and maybe killed a goblin without anyone's help.

One thing you can do - and it becomes a bit of a pain to track - is start applying encumbrance. So stealing 1,000 gold may weigh down a Rogue. Or, make it so any traps they try to disarm are at disadvantage, because - not only are they carrying 1,000 gold (plus whatever other equipment) - they're trying to keep this 1,000 gold hidden from the rest of the party - the entire time - until they can do something with the gold. So all of their skill checks are at disadvantage until the Rogue gets that bag, awkwardly tucked in their shirt, or weighing down their backpack, out and sorted (or deposited somewhere).

From what I've read: 50 coins of any value weighs a pound, and a pound of gold is worth 50gp.
So 1,000 gold would be an additional 20lbs of weight - and weight matters to a Rogue who is trying to be quiet...

[Aprender]

In my experience, the rogue (not thief--that hasn't been a full class since 2e precisely because of this type of player/player interaction) that chooses to do "what my character would do" tends to get quite upset when the lawful good cleric chooses to not heal the scoundrel despite it being "what my cleric would do".

One way or the other, talk to the players involved. Proceed with the knowledge of what you've heard here and maximize the fun of all people involved (including you). This interaction is at least as old as 1st edition and it won't go anywhere any time soon.

At my table, you can walk up to the king, slap his face and get everyone thrown in the darkest dungeon, but do not take obviously hostile actions against another player after being cautioned against it (at session 0). That's chaotic stupid. You are trusting your life to those around you; don't give them a reason to prefer looting your body to rezzing it.

[CorporateSlave]

In my experience, the rogue (not thief--that hasn't been a full class since 2e precisely because of this type of player/player interaction) that chooses to do "what my character would do" tends to get quite upset when the lawful good cleric chooses to not heal the scoundrel despite it being "what my cleric would do".

Well that's what happens when you meta game and confuse Player with Character.

If the Rogue Character did some totally "in character RP skimming off the top" and the Lawful Good Cleric Character was none the wiser because the Rogue passed any/all SoH, Deception, etc checks, but the LG Cleric Player (who obviously knows) decides his LG Cleric Character isn't healing the Rogue Character as a result of something only the Player knows and the Character does not, then the Rogue Player has every right to be upset at the LG Cleric Player. He's using meta Player knowledge to IG RP punish the Character.

Now on the other hand, if the LG Cleric noticed the thievery IG and as a result does some totally "in character RP refusing to heal the lawbreaker to teach him a lesson" because of that IG knowledge that his Character has, then the Rogue's Player needs to learn to suck it up and live with the IG consequences of his RP IG actions, and I've found few Players who don't shrug this sort of thing purely IG thing off.

I've always thought that expecting a cobbled together party to act in total harmony is a ridiculous expectation, and if the DM harbors such expectations, he needs to both make that clear in Session 0, as well as contrive some IG reason such cooperation would exist, such as a group that has been trained/travelled/etc together for some time...or at the very least some solid reason they would all be putting the mission ahead of any personal interests.

Personally, I've always found parties with Characters that have some depth, flaws, ulterior motives, etc make for much more fun and interesting games as their (minor) conflicts and not-always-perfectly-aligned motives come into play.

[Mercurias]

I would take it the other way around and provide some incredibly juicy loot offered at a total song. A suit of +2 Studded Leather for only a thousand gold!?

Drop the offer in front of the Rogue in front of the party to give them a chance to ask how he suddenly got so flush with cash.

[Tawmis]

In my experience, the rogue (not thief--that hasn't been a full class since 2e precisely because of this type of player/player interaction) that chooses to do "what my character would do" tends to get quite upset when the lawful good cleric chooses to not heal the scoundrel despite it being "what my cleric would do".



Well that's what happens when you meta game and confuse Player with Character.
If the Rogue Character did some totally "in character RP skimming off the top" and the Lawful Good Cleric Character was none the wiser because the Rogue passed any/all SoH, Deception, etc checks, but the LG Cleric Player (who obviously knows) decides his LG Cleric Character isn't healing the Rogue Character as a result of something only the Player knows and the Character does not, then the Rogue Player has every right to be upset at the LG Cleric Player. He's using meta Player knowledge to IG RP punish the Character.


Now ... consider this, based off of Aprender's reply.
You are correct that this is the Knowledge the player would have. Now, let's look at the Cleric. In a total RP moment, the player may know this information - but wouldn't the Cleric's God or Goddess know it also? After all, the gods see all, and they're all knowing. They see a Thief who has decided not to share the gold found (more than ample enough to be shared!) - and this is money that prevents the Cleric from purchasing components for spells, or even donating gold to the local Church to help maintain it, help pay for resources used, medical supplies. Would it not be perfect, for said god or goddess to decide - the Rogue's greed is a strike against the gods themselves - and choose not to allow said Rogue from being healed by the scorned god or goddess?

Because that is the one time, if the player sold it to me as such, that I would COMPLETELY let that happen.

And probably give the Cleric Inspiration on top of it, for bring some roleplaying to the table.

"There is no honor among thieves and a fool and his money are soon parted - when a god or goddess has been scorned."
- Talyrs Hopebringer

[Trickery]

But punishing a Rogue because they kept the money, is like punishing a Barbarian because they did more damage than the fighter in the party - and maybe killed a goblin without anyone's help.

I don't think that's accurate. The idea that rogues have to be greedy thieves is just a stereotype. Scouts, tricksters, and swashbuckling heroes are also rogues, and none of them need be greedier than the next guy.

There's also a difference between being greedy toward the rest of the world vs greedy toward your party. For a pop culture example, Rocket might steal from others, but he doesn't steal from his own crew.

[Cheesegear]

How do I incentivize him to share the gold with the rest of the party?

The party should attempt to 'reform' him. Sharing is caring. However that rarely works if the player decides that that's not part of his character's development.

As with all 'It's what my character would do!' situations, remember that Lawful characters can do exactly the same thing in return. "My Good character would absolutely help other people. However, on the Lawful side of the things, it has been made clear to me that he doesn't want or need my help, so I shall do as he asks, and not help him." This is effectively the players giving the DM free reign to start dunking on the problem player, where not even the Lawful Good characters are willing to help anymore. Maybe, just maybe, the party will help the problem player when he drops to 0, but not before.

The other option is to fudge your loot.
DM: [Problem player] which hostile do you search, specifically?
Problem Player: I search [this one].
DM: Great. You find nothing at all. [Good player] which hostile do you search?
Good player: This other one.
DM: Interesting, you find 350gp and four Healing Potions.
PP: But I searched the boss!
DM: Why would the boss keep his gold on his own person? That's what minions are for.
GP: I give everyone a healing potion. I dole out 80gp to everyone, and 30gp goes into the party kitty (Bag of Holding).

The only way to stop 'But it's what my character would do!' behaviour, is stop that character from finding anything that the DM intends for the party to have. If the party is supposed to find it, don't let the a*hole find it.

There are two chests in the room. The (important) loot is in the chest that the a*hole doesn't look in - determine which chest after the player declares. :smallwink:

[moonfly7]

The fact that this thread still exists is sad. Follow the advice of the people who said to talk about it out of game if it bothers your party. Yes, some types of rogues steal, but if the entire party doesnt do that, and doesn't want that from anyone, then it kinda hurts them. Whether its over fake money or not, in game or not, selfish things hurt. Yes, we SHOULDN'T care, its just a character in a game. But often times, this kind of thing is a thinly veiled pull from real life, where the player in question wants power, or just wamts to cause a stir and get noticed. It happens, and its one of those times where you stop DNDing fpr a moment and make sure it wasn't meant that way, make sure everyone's fine, then continue. Don't just try to play through that, be polite, be mature, and talk about it woth everyone if someobe is bothered by it.

[Aprender]

Rule 0 of this forum (as far as I am concerned) : everyone and anyone is allowed to do what they want at their table, and I am not speaking with infallibility.

With that said, I have a group of friends that have known each other for over 20 years. There, any flaws you want a char to have are fine. We all know each other and can explore those roles.

My comments above assumed that the table did not have that history. Too many times, at tables that lack real life social capital, fraying at the ends of the characters' allegiances to each other results in real life hurt feelings and a less enjoyable experience.

If you have the group that can (and enjoys) separating the PC's knowledge from the player's, please feel free to role play any flaws, including PvP. If you're new to a group or the group is generally new, my advice is be wary with PvP.

[Tawmis]

I don't think that's accurate. The idea that rogues have to be greedy thieves is just a stereotype. Scouts, tricksters, and swashbuckling heroes are also rogues, and none of them need be greedier than the next guy.

There's also a difference between being greedy toward the rest of the world vs greedy toward your party. For a pop culture example, Rocket might steal from others, but he doesn't steal from his own crew.

Right - that's why (in the same post I had said) - When in truth, not all Rogues are just a "steal and keep for myself" - because not every Rogue is inherently "greedy."
Some people become Rogues for the challenge of trying to steal a painting. Once they do it, they throw in the trash. It was more of, "Can I do it" vs "I do it because I'm a thief and I steal things. And keep it."

My point about punishing a Rogue who steals, is more about - this is as common as a barbarian doing more damage than a fighter. It's going to happen.
Now, it's one thing when they skim entirely from the party (like keeping 1,000 gold) vs lying about it, and saying it was only 500 gold (and skimming 500 for themselves, just as an example).

Which is why I had also said (again in that same post) - One thing that I think you should look at is the Rogue's character - more than just their class. Look at their flaws and such (ideally filled out for 5e) which helps "define" their character. If they picked a Rogue, and wrote a backstory that they grew up poor - then, I can see that Rogue hoarding gold for themselves. They spent their entire lives never knowing when that next meal might come. But if it's a Rogue who is doing it because they never felt challenged, then I'd feel that they would share, because once they snaked the gold and the party didn't see - the Rogue's proved he's better than the rest.

So there are - if written in, as a character background, trait, etc - where I'd find it acceptable that they skim entirely from the party.
I'd also test them (if this is written into their background) - what's not to say that the DM can't slide the Cleric or Paladin (just as an example) a note that read, "During your first rest, when you go to sleep - you have a vision of a golden statue - and you see Roguey-Rogue look around and take it, placing it in his bag."

Now, this is the gods giving their chosen ones a vision - and allows the party to question (in character) about this weird dream they had - and have it all roleplayed out.

[Tawmis]

The fact that this thread still exists is sad.

I feel like this topic will continue to pop up. You get players, who become new DMs and find themselves dealing with this new aspect of how to handle things.
You get experienced DMs who have a new group - and maybe that new Rogue just thinks "I am a rogue. Fighters kill. Clerics heal. Druids talk to animals. Rogues steal."
So it's good to see people bringing it up - and people popping in with great advice about how to deal with it (ultimately, talk to the party, and see if everyone is fine with it - if it's in the Rogue's character to do so - again, not all rogues are thieves to steal and keep - some are out there for the challenge of stealing, and once they get it, they don't care, etc).

But if it's impacting the other players, it does need to be addressed, or it will fester and get worse.

[Lord of Shadows]

For context, the party just finished a dungeon and the party rogue found a coin purse with 1,000gp in it. He decided to roll a SoH check (22, so nobody actually saw him take it) and then not tell the rest of the party of the earnings.

How do I incentivize him to share the gold with the rest of the party? I originally thought they would just share it and divide it evenly amongst themselves (5 players, 200gp per person).

Lots of good advice from everyone on this one. Here's 2 more coppers worth...

I think the 2000 gp is gone, but it need not be forgotten. How does the Rogue's player plan to keep it a secret from the party? Chances are he hasn't thought that far ahead. Assuming he spends it on new stuff, it will become evident to the rest of the party that one of their number suddenly has some wealth. He can try to hide it by buying things that can be concealed, like poison, but he won't be able to resist using his new toys. This is where the rest of the party could notice something.

They could also notice things like changes in the Rogue's habits.. something as simple as where/what he eats/drinks. If he suddenly gets loose with coin the others may start to wonder where he got it. They will start checking their own purses first, and finding them normal, may start paying closer attention to the Rogue, making it harder and harder to succeed at these thefts.

Be careful and don't make it seem like the universe has suddenly turned against the Rogue (or his player). Things that seem contrived or created just because of something the Rogue did can have a negative effect on things. It's best if it can seem to just all play out naturally.

Hope this helps.
.

[DarkKnightJin]

Reading through this thread, I've been convinced to lean into the videogame theme of my setting by having the party get an equal share of all money that is found, automatically.
You complete a quest? Great, that 150gp reward you had in the log? That's per person in the party.
Same as experience. The only way the Rogue could keep all the money would be to 'leave' the party, and that would kinda stand out.

[Ironheart]

In my eyes, it’s not so much that the rogue pocketed funds as it is that he lacks something to spend it on. Adventure hooks that are only available through spending gold are your best tools to avoid gold from stockpiling on particular people.

If money truly is what he’s looking for, then even a thousand gold pieces shouldn’t be enough. The only logical thing to invest it toward is trying to find more profitable and lucrative dungeons. If he attempts to skim again, have inherent risk associated with such a decision, particularly if other party’s problems can be solved with money.

If the rogue decides not to spend his coin? Well, he’s making the party as a whole weaker and depriving them of resources. That will come back to bite him in it’s own way, whether it is in the form of his frontline being knocked out due to working with inferior armor, or the cleric unable to raise him because the only funds to purchase diamonds stayed in his pocket.

When you drive home how valuable it is to see the party as assets and investments, then the money loving rogue makes much more sense within the party dynamic.

Other party members may be offended and hurt that they are viewed this way, or they can try to compromise- if he just wants to make gold, then he should ask for a bigger percentage, in exchange for further honesty and more diligence towards the party’s goal. If payment is what he wants, he can be a talented hireling rather than a party member, although he might have to learn that friendship can not be bought.

If he has another reason to hoard gold like that, then you as the DM have the right to ask him what that reason is. If he’s saving for a rainy day, kindly suggest that giving the party the gold is the better option.

If a 1000 gold is enough to have the character consider leaving the party over, his greed sated, then ask the player follow through with what his character would do, and ask him to roll up a new character.

‘It’s what your character would do, indeed.’

TL;DR -
Your player made the decision to take more gold, so let him live with the consequences and logical conclusions of that decision. If your player finds that this is not fun, then work with him to see what can change to make it fun.

[Laserlight]

found a coin purse with 1,000gp in it.

People are focusing on "fix the rogue player", but...That's a lot of gold. Why was a guy walking around with $100,000--the approximate value of 1000gp-- in his pocket?

Furthermore, it's twenty pounds / nine kilograms, and pretty bulky--it's pretty awkward to hand 20lb from your belt. If it's payday for all your guards, maybe you'd carry that much, but probably not in one pouch.

And if it were in one pouch, it'd be too heavy and bulky to SoH, I'd say.

[Tanarii]

For context, the party just finished a dungeon and the party rogue found a coin purse with 1,000gp in it. He decided to roll a SoH check (22, so nobody actually saw him take it) and then not tell the rest of the party of the earnings.

How do I incentivize him to share the gold with the rest of the party? I originally thought they would just share it and divide it evenly amongst themselves (5 players, 200gp per person).You start by telling the Rogue's player you made a mistake, because 20 lbs doesn't fit in a 'coin purse'. It clearly was in a large box and there was no way for him to heist it unseen.

[Cheesegear]

Follow the advice of the people who said to talk about it out of game if it bothers your party.

What is the mechanical advantage to my character by sharing loot? There isn't one. There is no in-game reason to share. There is only out-of-game reasons. Which is easily defensible by 'It's what my character would do!' It's no different to a player siding with a Succubus make it a Dragon, to make it a bit more nuanced, betraying the party, killing at least one PC and looting other players for said Dragon and offering treasure, whilst the Dragon spares the a*hole's life in return for service. Roll a new character.

It doesn't matter that the Dragon's now-Servant is out of the campaign, because he took at least one other PC with him.
"As a Druid, I have declared that the Green Dragon is better for the local wildlife than the wretched human city that is constantly cutting down trees and hunting for sport. I side with the Dragon. I sell out my own party which allows the Dragon to set up his ambush."
This happened by the way. My adventure was to slay the Green Dragon so that the Human city could expand its reach into the wilderness. And the party Druid was like 'Lol no.' True story. There wasn't a way for me to say 'No.', since it's what their character would do. Who am I to say 'No you wouldn't'?

There is absolutely no call for it at a table of friends. But, 'It's what their character would do." and bonus, it's full of narrative - despite the fact that he killed another player in possibly the worst possible time. What is the narrative reason for saying "I stole from the party, but I got Rule 0'd and now I have to give it back."?

There is any number of reasons to steal or hide loot from other players for very good narrative reasons. Are you trying to tell a player what they can do with their character?
If they're not de-railing the campaign, what's the problem?

"We need 1000gp for [plot device]."
The party agrees that they need 1000gp, and go on a quest to get some.
They stumble across 1000gp.

Now, after having made the agreement, if a player steals or hides some - let alone all of it - of the gold that the party needs. You can absolutely Roleplay that. As another poster said...

50gp is 1lb. 1000gp is therefore 20lb. Cool. Most characters with decent STR have enough space on their person for 20lb - especially if movement/weight variant rules aren't being used.

But, the issue isn't weight. The issue is space and noise. Everyone make Perception checks every minute. You see a huge bulge on the Rogue's person - no, not that bulge - and you hear lots of clinking noises. Wanna check it out?

Player: I hide **** from the other party members.
DM: *Nods, purses lips.* Okay. You're playing that character. Cool beans.
Player 2: I roll Insight...Oh look, a 3. Do I pass?
DM: Absolutely. 3 passes. You know your party member is up to no good.
Player 2: I cast Detect Thoughts. Oh. Interesting. I say, out loud, that Player 1 just snuck a ****-ton of gold.
Player 3 & 4: Let's do this.

It shouldn't be enough to pass a single Sleight of Hand check. The Rogue should be making constant Deception and Stealth checks against the party constantly. There's no need to talk it out, because 'If it's what their character would do', the other players should be doing what their characters would do, and the DM should be helping. After a particularly hasty getaway, the Rogue drops the 20lb. pouch. Because it's 20lb.

...While we're at it, a Belt Pouch can only contain 6lb. worth of weight, or 300gp max. :smallwink:


Yes, some types of rogues steal, but if the entire party doesnt do that, and doesn't want that from anyone, then it kinda hurts them.

Exactly. So they should roleplay that. The player who steals from the party can absolutely be punished, in game, by the other party members. You know how you, the player, feel betrayed? That's how you - the character - feels. Except your character in the game has a sword. Deal with it.

Player 1: "I'm just doing what my character would do!"
Player 2, 3 and 4: "Great, we do what our characters would do if someone betrayed us."


It happens, and its one of those times where you stop DNDing fpr a moment and make sure it wasn't meant that way, make sure everyone's fine, then continue.

No. Everyone's not fine. They've been stolen from. Roleplay it.

[Reevh]

So there was a rogue at my last table that did this fairly regularly, but none of the players were bothered by it, and even the characters who saw him do it didn't really care. It wasn't in their character to care.

If the characters in the party *would* care about this sort of thing, there are a lot of great ways to resolve this through roleplay. Have the characters become suspicious about why that rogue always seems so flush with cash, where he got his newest set of +1 studded leather from, etc.

In that same last table I played at, there actually was an intra-party conflict about this. We had found a robe of the archmagi, very powerful item, but it was only attunable by someone of evil alignment. My Forge Cleric of Erathis felt that it would be incredibly immoral and dangerous to sell the robe, because the only people who would be able to use it would only use it to do great evil, and given the power of the item, that wasn't OK. Meanwhile the druid, rogue, and bard of the group all decided that this was an object of value and they wanted some cash, so they conspired to steal it and hide that from my cleric and the paladin. When the cleric (high perception) saw this happen, he demanded that the robe be returned to him, and the rogue and druid outright refused.

At this point, feeling angry, betrayed, unloved, etc. my Cleric stormed off, convinced that he would never return to the party. If it hadn't been for the paladin, that would have been the last they saw of the cleric character. But the paladin pulled a "for ****'s sake," grappled the robe away from the rogue, and tossed it to my cleric. My cleric then went off to another part of the city, and used his Divine Intervention class feature (and it actually worked!) to summon a Solar to destroy the robe. The paladin managed to calm things down a bit, though it still took several more in game days before the rogue returned to the party, but that was a moment when the party really might have split up. I would have rolled a new character.

And you know what? All the players agree that was probably the best night of roleplay in the whole campaign.

If you have characters who can separate the actions of their characters from their players, who can find roleplay ways to resolve these behaviors, I think that's the best way to do it. If, on the other hand, these behaviors are making the game less fun for the actual players, perhaps an offline conversation makes sense. But it's important to remember that this is a game and it's possible to have fun in a lot of different ways.

[Tanarii]

I'm reminded of night blood from the cosmere, leaving a trail of bodies behind it of groups of people that lusted for its power and killed each other over it.

Honestly seems like how most parties should end up. Stabbing each other over the first powerful magical item.

[Cheesegear]

If the characters in the party *would* care about this sort of thing, there are a lot of great ways to resolve this through roleplay.

That's my argument. Stealing from the party is only a 'problem' if party members make it a problem outside of the game.
Inside the game, it is 100% resolvable, provided the party is a little bit creative and have a decent grasp of mechanics.


If you have characters who can separate the actions of their characters from their players, who can find roleplay ways to resolve these behaviors

The issue is that a lot of players don't see their characters as characters. They see them as self-inserts. Which is certainly one way to play the game. But if you've played D&D for any length of time you know that you can spend 4000 words on a character's backstory only to have them die in the first round of combat to a Wolf that rolled a crit.

It doesn't pay to be attached to your characters. You encounter a Wraith, get Life-Drained until you die.
You encounter a Banshee. Start rolling Death saves.

However, if you've played your character from Level 1 through 15 or 16, and you've spent maybe 8 months real-time developing your persona and character development. A lot of players would be pretty mad to have someone stab them in the back and kill them.

But, I guess the weirdest thing about this thread is that it's gold. It's not a magic item - let alone a powerful one - and it's not like anyone even died. 5e is pretty much designed in a way that there is definitely such a thing as 'too much' gold, because at some point that much gold becomes impractical. Unless your goal is buy yourself a castle and remove yourself from a campaign. In which case, did you win or lose? :smallwink:


Honestly seems like how most parties should end up. Stabbing each other over the first powerful magical item.

If the item is a MacGuffin, you can make a whole campaign out of it, too.:smalltongue:

[Reevh]

The issue is that a lot of players don't see their characters as characters. They see them as self-inserts. Which is certainly one way to play the game. But if you've played D&D for any length of time you know that you can spend 4000 words on a character's backstory only to have them die in the first round of combat to a Wolf that rolled a crit.

It doesn't pay to be attached to your characters. You encounter a Wraith, get Life-Drained until you die.
You encounter a Banshee. Start rolling Death saves.

However, if you've played your character from Level 1 through 15 or 16, and you've spent maybe 8 months real-time developing your persona and character development. A lot of players would be pretty mad to have someone stab them in the back and kill them.


Aye, I think it's fine to get invested in a character, and reasonable to be angry if another character just stabs yours in the back without allowing for a non-PC-death roleplay opportunity out of the situation. But I find the game to be a lot more fun for me if I'm willing to let my character die or leave the party if it advances the story in authentic ways. Like I said in my earlier anecdote, my character was quite ready to leave the adventuring party forever when the situation called for it. I would have had fun conceiving of a new character to fit into the story. Perhaps one that fit the general adventuring philosophy of the rest of the party better. That turned out to be unnecessary, and that intra-party conflict turned out to be the best thing that happened in that campaign.

More recently in our new campaign, we played 4 sessions when we ended up in a TPK scenario (probably, it's possible that my character lived through it, but he was KO'd and the rest of the party was properly dead). I had been looking forward to playing that character out. He's the first character I've ever voiced with an accent and I'm sad not to be able to do that accent with my new character (totally different background). But now I have an exciting shiny new character to play around with, and I'm looking forward to that one too!

[Wizard_Lizard]

our rogue would get inspiration for that. :(

[Garresh]

It honestly depends entirely on if everyone is having FUN. I've done that before as a rogue. Actually I pretty much always do that. But I usually splurge on gifts for party members without telling them where I got the gold. If someone's bothered I share much more readily. Most players I've played with don't care.

The funniest incident of this was 3 characters playing a rogue, assassin, and another rogue. They constantly stole and pickpocketed from each other. The gems and gold flew back and forth. Nobody was bothered. It was hilarious.

Just talk to the players. If it's an issue of roleplay. Find in character reasons to split loot without breaking role. If he's actually being a douche ask other players what they think. Just talk it out.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Aside from having a frank conversation with players to see how everyone wants to play the game, I think there's another option that's more subtle but not as fool-proof if you think this is a big issue.

There's nothing wrong with the Rogue having more money than everyone nor is it wrong if even the players outside the game don't always know how much money he has. We don't divide everything evenly in the game I play in because my character owns a business and we have mechanics where I can invest money into it and turn a profit. But when someone needs a magic item I and the rogue in our party are quick to offer our gold or unused items to help them purchase it.

So I would suggest offering up unique items beneficial to the whole party that don't fit the rogue's build and/or offering up moral choices. I had a rogue in a game I was running find a flaming sword at Level 1 (put there intentionally by me) so that a couple of sessions later I could present them with an NPC who had been wrongly imprisoned for stealing the sword from the constable. They had to decide whether to keep an amazing Level 1 item and let someone else face unjust punishment, or turn in the sword to set him free and collect a subpar reward that was slightly less than the swords base value. They chose the latter, but it was a hard choice because the Rogue was reforming from a long life of crime.

[Revaros]

Session 0 would have nipped this in the bud.

"What do you guys think about loot? Share it transparently and evenly or just see how things pan out in-game as your characters interact? Btw, if the latter, no complaining later if someone RP's a thieving ****."

[Nagog]

Perhaps you could use this. Make it a standard in a major location they come to soon that all coin transactions must be screened with a custom divination spell to tell if the latest transaction these coins took part in was honest. If they were stolen in their most recent transaction, then they would be flagged and not only would they be unable to use them, the rogue could be arrested. Some time later the party could discover that there is an exploitable loophole in this magic being that if they split the gold and then give their share to another party member (everybody giving their share to somebody else so it remains the same), the most recent transaction was not theft, but a willing gift.

[Draconi Redfir]

a lot of people out to punish the rogue or change the fundamental mechanics of the game h'uh?

just compensate the other players, give them something of value that loosely equates to the gold, maybe more, maybe less then 1000gp. then let the players themselves decide if they want to punish the rogue.

and don't do something silly like have constant perception checks with a winning value of a 3 until someone finds out, that's just dumb and annoying. If the rogue does something big like a backflip or whatnot, then sure, give one or two players a perception check of a 15 or so to notice something's up. otherwise leave it be.

at no point should the entire game be de-railed because of 1000gp like some people are suggesting here. if the players find out what's up, let them deal with it. maybe some of the gold will be divided more evenly then, who knows.

[Man_Over_Game]

a lot of people out to punish the rogue or change the fundamental mechanics of the game h'uh?

just compensate the other players, give them something of value that loosely equates to the gold, maybe more, maybe less then 1000gp. then let the players themselves decide if they want to punish the rogue.

and don't do something silly like have constant perception checks with a winning value of a 3 until someone finds out, that's just dumb and annoying. If the rogue does something big like a backflip or whatnot, then sure, give one or two players a perception check of a 15 or so to notice something's up. otherwise leave it be.

at no point should the entire game be de-railed because of 1000gp like some people are suggesting here. if the players find out what's up, let them deal with it. maybe some of the gold will be divided more evenly then, who knows.

I think the bigger concern people are worried about is that DnD is about a group of people having fun, the accumulation of resources is often considered fun, and the Rogue is choosing to steal that from other players. It's a statement, that his fun is more important than yours. It breaks trust, cohesion, teamwork, many things that contribute towards fun at the table. It's generating "fun" as the same way a pyramid scheme generates "wealth": By taking it from those who are less ruthless than you.

It's no longer "All for One, One for All", but instead becomes "All for me, and if that hurts you then tough sh**."


(Now, that doesn't have to always be true, many players enjoy drama and challenges as part of the game, but it's better to find out how people want to enjoy the game rather than assuming their interests align with your own)

[Moltenbrisingr]

Sigh.... I have had "It's what my character would do" confrontations blow up into shouting matches at tables I have (but no longer) played at. Most of the suggestions I have seen on this thread are valid, but this is how I now go about this at my table:

1. Ask the other party members if they care
2. If the other players are angry about it, I talk to the player
3. Ask the player why he did the thing he did
4. I let the player know that 1st and foremost that fun is the goal of the game, and that his actions are leading to others not having fun, and I ask what I can do to give his character RP opportunities so that he doesn't have to steal from the party.
5. if the player still continues being an IWMCWD jerk and it's still irritating the party, I will ask one more time if they would be more of a team player.
6. If they STILL refuse to relent being a disruption to the party, then I either ask them to roll a new character, change the one they have, or stop playing.

I rarely have to get past step 4 on this one. Most people and reasonable and want to have fun. If you make it to step 6... you don't want them at the table anyway.

[Jamesps]

I usually play DnD with the following rules modification:

Do not roll dice for any PVP action. The target of the action decides whether or not it was successful (They may do this by calling for a dice roll if they wish).

[Demonslayer666]

...[snip]...

But punishing a Rogue because they kept the money, is like punishing a Barbarian because they did more damage than the fighter in the party - and maybe killed a goblin without anyone's help.

...[snip]...

That's not the same thing at all. One is helping the party and one is hurting the party (and possibly the other player's fun). Damaging a foe is not the same as stealing gold. At most it's stealing someone's thunder, which can easily be done by the fighter in the next combat by using action surge. The rest of the party doesn't steal from each other. That's a huge difference.

[Pex]

If I can't trust you out of character then I can't trust you in character, and I don't give a Hoover how high in decibels you shout metagaming. I've long since lost patience with garbage behavior such as this. Been there, done that too many times. Nothing you say excuses or permits it. I will call you out on it. If it means you quit the game I don't care. It has happened. If the DM backs the player up as if to say I'm in the wrong then I quit the game. I've done that too. It took a long while for me to learn I don't have to put up with it. I feel sorry for new players who lack gaming experience having to go through these awful times to learn the lesson too,

[Moltenbrisingr]

That's not the same thing at all. One is helping the party and one is hurting the party (and possibly the other player's fun). Damaging a foe is not the same as stealing gold. At most it's stealing someone's thunder, which can easily be done by the fighter in the next combat by using action surge. The rest of the party doesn't steal from each other. That's a huge difference.

Couldn't agree more. Stealing gold or items from the party almost always results in IRL conflict.

[KorvinStarmast]

There are two chests in the room. The (important) loot is in the chest that the a*hole doesn't look in - determine which chest after the player declares. :smallwink: Heh, the quantum treasure chest. :smallcool:

I usually play DnD with the following rules modification: Do not roll dice for any PVP action. The target of the action decides whether or not it was successful (They may do this by calling for a dice roll if they wish). I like your idea. Thanks. *jots down notes in "good DM ideas" notebook.

If I can't trust you out of character then I can't trust you in character, and I don't give a Hoover how high in decibels you shout metagaming. I've long since lost patience with garbage behavior such as this. Been there, done that too many times. Nothing you say excuses or permits it. I will call you out on it. If it means you quit the game I don't care. It has happened. If the DM backs the player up as if to say I'm in the wrong then I quit the game. I've done that too. It took a long while for me to learn I don't have to put up with it. I feel sorry for new players who lack gaming experience having to go through these awful times to learn the lesson too, This too, sad but true.

@Aprender: nice post up there (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24020270&postcount=31).

[Zuras]

I second everyone recommending you talk to all the players about it away from the table. Unless the whole table goes into the exercise expecting PvP, someone will invariably feel like a chump when another player victimizes them with the whole Player Knowledge/Character Knowledge dichotomy.

I personally would be rather put out and reconsider playing with that group, but that’s because that type of RP isn’t why I play D&D. I’m not interested in sitting around trying to steal one another’s lunch money.

Whether it’s robbing the party or engaging in other Chaotic Stupid behaviors, like starting fights in town, when someone says “it’s what my character would do,” 9 out of 10 times something has already gone terribly wrong.

[Zuras]

at no point should the entire game be de-railed because of 1000gp like some people are suggesting here. if the players find out what's up, let them deal with it. maybe some of the gold will be divided more evenly then, who knows.


In my experience, after IRL issues like people moving or changing schedules, “it’s what my character would do” is the leading derailer of campaigns.

[GlenSmash!]

In my experience, after IRL issues like people moving or changing schedules, “it’s what my character would do” is the leading derailer of campaigns.

Bingo. It's the most important thing to talk about in session 0. Everyone at the table is their to have fun. If your fun comes at the expense of another player find a different way to have fun or find another table.

Unfortunately I think a lot of new players are trying to play there character the "right" way and think if their rogue doesn't steal they are doing it wrong. I find that that is quickly corrected with some conversation.

[Sigreid]

In my experience, after IRL issues like people moving or changing schedules, “it’s what my character would do” is the leading derailer of campaigns.

In my experience "it's what my character would do" is passive aggressive for "I'm kind of bored so trying to entertain myself". Not saying it's a good way to entertain yourself but it's usually a sign of trying to make things interesting.

[Man_Over_Game]

In my experience "it's what my character would do" is passive aggressive for "I'm kind of bored so trying to entertain myself". Not saying it's a good way to entertain yourself but it's usually a sign of trying to make things interesting.

I actually encourage "It's what my character would do" moments, but only as long as they provide something for the party. Sometimes, that's humor or drama. Sometimes, that's experience. Sometimes, the whole party gets Inspiration to pull the culprit out of the fire. You don't need to always be a perfect little tactician, and you shouldn't have to be in order to add fun to the table.

It's hard to tell what the table gets out of theft, though.

[Aprender]

@KorvinStarmast Thx.

General rule 1: if everyone is having a good time playing D&D, then you're doing it right. If someone's fun is coming at the expense of another's, have a conversation away from the table.

General rule 2: if you're the DM, don't expect rolling dice well will get you out of a bind with your players. Also, don't expect your players roleplaying well to get you out either.

General rule 3: Good communication absolves a lot of sins. "it's what my character would do" is not good communication.

General rule 4: if you see a 2 inch diameter, circular hole in the wall of a dungeon, do not put your pen is in there. Just don't. Really. I mean it. Someone is going to want to. Don't. There is no die roll that will save you from being that stupid, even if it what your character would do.

[Sigreid]

@KorvinStarmast Thx.

General rule 1: if everyone is having a good time playing D&D, then you're doing it right. If someone's fun is coming at the expense of another's, have a conversation away from the table.

General rule 2: if you're the DM, don't expect rolling dice well will get you out of a bind with your players. Also, don't expect your players roleplaying well to get you out either.

General rule 3: Good communication absolves a lot of sins. "it's what my character would do" is not good communication.

General rule 4: if you see a 2 inch diameter, circular hole in the wall of a dungeon, do not put your pen is in there. Just don't. Really. I mean it. Someone is going to want to. Don't. There is no die roll that will save you from being that stupid, even if it what your character would do.

It's hard to say not knowing anything about the group and its dynamic. It's even possible the player sees this as a necessary set up step for his rogue's redemption story. You have to be bad before you can repent.

[Cheesegear]

I actually encourage "It's what my character would do" moments, but only as long as they provide something for the party. Sometimes, that's humor or drama.
[...]
It's hard to tell what the table gets out of theft, though.

The party gets drama. Just like you said.

Anytime a player does something that hurts the party - intentionally, and most often times, unintentionally - it's drama. Every. Single. Time.

The issue is how your players handle it. It's just a game. We're all friends here. It's imaginary make-believe self-insert fanfic time. Do whatever you want.

How your party and DM handles it, is entirely different. As I said, 'I'm just doing what my character would do.' the response, every single time, is always 'Well, I/we do what my/our character/s would do, and I/we leave you bloody and broken on the side of the road. Roll a new character.' Very, very rarely have I seen a table devolve into 'every man for himself', because more often than not, it's 3v1; Cleric debuffs, Fighter grapples, DPR stabs him in the kidneys.

In my earlier anecdote about the Druid siding with a Green Dragon and backstabbing the party. Would your character actually do that, though? Yes. Yes they would. One PC straight up gets killed and the Druid hands their character sheet to me, to become a hostile encounter later in the campaign.
Did my group have a meltdown? No.
Was the player who's character got killed upset? Sure...For five minutes until they realised they were an adult and this was an imaginary game of make-believe, and just roll a new character. It's not that hard.

Having a disruptive party member is nothing new. Players can do whatever they want, and the DM can't really say no unless dice get rolled, and even if dice do get rolled, the player can always beat the other players' Perception checks. It happens. This is especially problematic if the DM makes a mistake and says that there's 1000gp in a 6lb belt pouch and the players just well...they don't roll, but uh...They roll with it. Because chances are that they might not see the problem. The party has to sort it out themselves. Which they can absolutely do.

Having a disruptive player is something entirely different.
e.g; I'm bored, and the only way I can make this fun for myself is causing drama and ruining the game for everyone else.

[ATHATH]

Talk with him and the party OOC. Is anyone else but you bothered by this?

Don't do any of this passive-aggressive !@#$ that other people are suggesting; it will just build resentment between the rogue's player and you. If you don't like/aren't comfortable with what a player is doing, TELL THEM ABOUT IT instead of screwing them over for doing something that they might not have known that you/the other party members didn't approve of.

[Cheesegear]

If you don't like/aren't comfortable with what a player is doing, TELL THEM ABOUT IT

The act of the players punishing the character - up to and including killing them - is telling them about it. There's no need to take it OOC, because you can resolve it 100% in character.

I find it hard to believe that anybody Sleight of Handing away loot doesn't know that what they're doing wont be taken well by at least one other player.
The whole point of Sleight of Handing and not letting other characters see, is that you know they wont take "I'll just keep all this loot for myself, then." well.
'Letting them know you disapprove' feels pretty redundant. Like...That's the point?

They know what they're doing is wrong, and they're doing it anyway. It's up to the players - and to a lesser extent, the DM - to punish them. Actions should have consequences.
"A player at our table just pocketed 1000gp. There's nothing we can do about it. Oh well. What we should do is air our grievances outside of the game."
Is that really how people see D&D? That's bizarre to me. :smallconfused:


instead of screwing them over for doing something that they might not have known that you/the other party members didn't approve of.

Again, see above. They absolutely know what they're doing is wrong, that's why they have to Sleight of Hand it, instead of straight up just pocketing it in full view of everyone. That's why when a player commits an overtly Evil act against the party (e.g; Killing someone), their character is no longer compatible with the party. Hand it over and/or roll a new one. There is no way that the controlling player doesn't know that other people wont approve.

You can do whatever you want. It's D&D make-believe time.
However, there should and will be consequences for overtly Evil and/or Chaotic actions. Hell, some of the other players might deliver those consequences themselves.

[Honest Tiefling]

The act of the players punishing the character - up to and including killing them - is telling them about it. There's no need to take it OOC, because you can resolve it 100% in character.

You could also go streaking in front of the police station with a blindfold on, but still a really bad idea. If you want to keep your friends, communicate with them before feelings get hurt. And any game where the DM cannot address issues with players directly is going to end about as well as that streaking attempt.

It's also easier to discuss the issue OOC and get back to gaming as friends then it is to make a situation where the rogue gets their 'comeuppance' be fair and not taken as passive aggressive posturing.


I find it hard to believe that anybody Sleight of Handing away loot doesn't know that what they're doing wont be taken well by at least one other player.

I've met and gamed with people like this. Some just really got into the character's head and honestly got confused why others were upset. They played their character, why didn't others play theirs? Not everyone is always on the same page on what is acceptable behavior and what is and isn't allowed. I greatly suspect that this group didn't quite address this issue clearly.


They know what they're doing is wrong, and they're doing it anyway. It's up to the players - and to a lesser extent, the DM - to punish them. Actions should have consequences.
"A player at our table just pocketed 1000gp. There's nothing we can do about it. Oh well. What we should do is air our grievances outside of the game."
Is that really how people see D&D? That's bizarre to me. :smallconfused:

People are upset out of character, so they address it out of character so players are all on the same page and able to create a game that everyone enjoys. Addressing OOC issues IC is pretty much the theme of any 'Awful DM thread' you can find on this forum and many others. It might work for you, but from my own experience it's easier to nip OOC issues in the bud with simple communication then IC attempts.

What sort of hobbies would you not try to address issues with people not enjoying themselves in such a fashion?

[Torpin]

i was with this group for 2 different campaigns a week, and this one player kept doing **** like this on both characters, an arcane trickster and a druid, and it was really annoying. all. the. time. as soon as combat finished while we were healing and what not the player would start looting and keep a lot of themself. I got sick of it so I eventually i rolled perception high enough and with my characters righteous indignation,threw the character into a vat of poison killing it. It was the most satisfying kill I've had in my 20 years of playing. the following week was my last time playing with them. no gaming is better than bad gaming.

[CorporateSlave]

"A player at our table just pocketed 1000gp. There's nothing we can do about it. Oh well. What we should do is air our grievances outside of the game."
Is that really how people see D&D? That's bizarre to me. :smallconfused:


"A player <character, there, fixed it> at our table <you mean in our campaign?> just pocketed 1000 gp. There's nothing we can do about it because the player nailed his character's Slight of Hand check and none of our characters know about it. But rather than talk to the player, about how we, the other player's did not have inter-party thievery in mind, lets have our characters massacre his character for 100% meta-game reasons. Is that really how some people see D&D? I imagine that is certainly how some people end friendships.

Unless I've missed something about how you think those other characters should have known about what the thief character did despite successfully using Slight of Hand to sneak the gp away?

Also, TL/DR but there's been discussion that "people shouldn't assume rogues are dishonest thieves so its not automatically what a rogue character would do," but not a lot of mention that perhaps this character has a secret backstory that he has to raise a large sum by a certain time - and if he doesn't, or if he tells anyone about it, innocent people could die. Maybe its just his flaw, he has the compulsion to steal, but if it comes down to it he will buy the fighter that magic shield, or hand out healing potions he bought with the $$. There is a lot of assuming evil or dishonest intent. That's not automatically the case.

If I were DM, and knew this sort of backstory, then had the rest of the party up and murder the rogue because the players wanted to punish the other player, you can bet there would be very serious IG consequences for their actions, and the resulting domino effect of innocent deaths their meta-game PvP murder caused.

[Moltenbrisingr]

"A player <character, there, fixed it> at our table <you mean in our campaign?> just pocketed 1000 gp. There's nothing we can do about it because the player nailed his character's Slight of Hand check and none of our characters know about it. But rather than talk to the player, about how we, the other player's did not have inter-party thievery in mind, lets have our characters massacre his character for 100% meta-game reasons. Is that really how some people see D&D? I imagine that is certainly how some people end friendships.

Unless I've missed something about how you think those other characters should have known about what the thief character did despite successfully using Slight of Hand to sneak the gp away?

Also, TL/DR but there's been discussion that "people shouldn't assume rogues are dishonest thieves so its not automatically what a rogue character would do," but not a lot of mention that perhaps this character has a secret backstory that he has to raise a large sum by a certain time - and if he doesn't, or if he tells anyone about it, innocent people could die. Maybe its just his flaw, he has the compulsion to steal, but if it comes down to it he will buy the fighter that magic shield, or hand out healing potions he bought with the $$. There is a lot of assuming evil or dishonest intent. That's not automatically the case.

If I were DM, and knew this sort of backstory, then had the rest of the party up and murder the rogue because the players wanted to punish the other player, you can bet there would be very serious IG consequences for their actions, and the resulting domino effect of innocent deaths their meta-game PvP murder caused.

I think that the "It's what my character would do" thing has always been a more out of character problem. The fact that the rogue has expertise in slight of hang with a +9 to +17 bonus means the average character will NEVER see the rogue take anything. The PCs will almost never see it in character, which is the biggest portion of the frustration. Good players, who don't meta-game, will be unable to do anything in character because they have no reason to do so. This will result in friction around the table. If it was a pure in game issue then nobody would care because no one would know. This is an out of game discussion to have one hundred percent, otherwise it will come to a head eventually. ESPECIALLY if the rogue always gets away with it in game.

[Pex]

"A player <character, there, fixed it> at our table <you mean in our campaign?> just pocketed 1000 gp. There's nothing we can do about it because the player nailed his character's Slight of Hand check and none of our characters know about it. But rather than talk to the player, about how we, the other player's did not have inter-party thievery in mind, lets have our characters massacre his character for 100% meta-game reasons. Is that really how some people see D&D? I imagine that is certainly how some people end friendships.

Unless I've missed something about how you think those other characters should have known about what the thief character did despite successfully using Slight of Hand to sneak the gp away?

Also, TL/DR but there's been discussion that "people shouldn't assume rogues are dishonest thieves so its not automatically what a rogue character would do," but not a lot of mention that perhaps this character has a secret backstory that he has to raise a large sum by a certain time - and if he doesn't, or if he tells anyone about it, innocent people could die. Maybe its just his flaw, he has the compulsion to steal, but if it comes down to it he will buy the fighter that magic shield, or hand out healing potions he bought with the $$. There is a lot of assuming evil or dishonest intent. That's not automatically the case.

If I were DM, and knew this sort of backstory, then had the rest of the party up and murder the rogue because the players wanted to punish the other player, you can bet there would be very serious IG consequences for their actions, and the resulting domino effect of innocent deaths their meta-game PvP murder caused.

Doesn't matter if it's in character. It's still an out of character problem and should be handled there. The rogue player chose to play a donkey cavity.

[Sigreid]

i was with this group for 2 different campaigns a week, and this one player kept doing **** like this on both characters, an arcane trickster and a druid, and it was really annoying. all. the. time. as soon as combat finished while we were healing and what not the player would start looting and keep a lot of themself. I got sick of it so I eventually i rolled perception high enough and with my characters righteous indignation,threw the character into a vat of poison killing it. It was the most satisfying kill I've had in my 20 years of playing. the following week was my last time playing with them. no gaming is better than bad gaming.

At that point it's time to decide whether that player gets invited to future sessions.

[Cheesegear]

There's nothing we can do about it because the player nailed his character's Slight of Hand check and none of our characters know about it

Like I said, 1000gp is a not-insignificant amount of weight and noise. With a little bit of creativity and a decent knowledge of mechanics, I'm pretty sure that you - the player - could figure out a way to catch the Thief, even if your character didn't catch him at the time.

At our table, no-one would even flinch. It's gold. Who cares? Large sums like that aren't even useful unless you're a Fighter saving up for Plate (in which case you have it by Level...5?). Wake me up when the Rogue pockets a powerful magic item that is way better off in someone else's possession.

Rogue Thief: "I pocket the Pearl of Power."
Wizard: "...WHY!? Here, I'll give you 1000gp right now if you don't do something stupid like exactly that."


lets have our characters massacre his character for 100% meta-game reasons.

'I'm just doing what my character would do.'
'We're doing what our characters would do, then.'

AFAIC, it's 100% narrative.


I imagine that is certainly how some people end friendships.

Only if you don't see D&D as a game of make-believe.
Only if someone is under the impression that actions don't have consequences.
Only if you're not adults.

Pick your favourite.

[Bjarkmundur]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I'm trying to picture the chain of events.

Player: Can I palm a couple of hundred gold?
DM: YES
Player: Can I do it without the party noticing?
DM: YES ROLL SLEIGHT OF HAND
Player: Nice, 22!
DM: YOU STEAL FROM YOUR FRIENDS

I think we need a bit more info on how this happened. In most games, a character nailing this check would have made a memorable moment and plenty of laughter. It is a ridiculous idea after all . Was this not what happened? I don't think players get mad about a fictional reward in a fictional universe, knowing that the DM is 100% likely to compensate the players for the loss. I mean, it was a fun RP moment, and the players should not suffer for it.

Player does something awesome, everyone laughs, unfortunately, some this cost another character something. The moment was fun, so nothing wrong with that ruling. The player managed to laugh even tho his stuff got taken. This behavior should be encourage, and there for compensated for.

[Man_Over_Game]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I'm trying to picture the chain of events.

Player: Can I palm a couple of hundred gold?
DM: YES
Player: Can I do it without the party noticing?
DM: YES ROLL SLEIGHT OF HAND
Player: Nice, 22!
DM: YOU STEAL FROM YOUR FRIENDS

I think we need a bit more info on how this happened. In most games, a character nailing this check would have made a memorable moment and plenty of laughter. It is a ridiculous idea after all . Was this not what happened? I don't think players get mad about a fictional reward in a fictional universe, knowing that the DM is 100% likely to compensate the players for the loss. I mean, it was a fun RP moment, and the players should not suffer for it.

Player does something awesome, everyone laughs, unfortunately, some this cost another character something. The moment was fun, so nothing wrong with that ruling. The player managed to laugh even tho his stuff got taken. This behavior should be encourage, and there for compensated for.

I once played at a table where our party's champion was really cowardly and selfish, but played off like this hero of heroes who buttered up to all of the local people of power. We had completed a major quest that almost ended up getting several of us killed. The champion carts off several of the prisoners to turn them in. He had made some deals with the DM, separate from the table, to turn in the bounty on the prisoners (that we weren't made aware of) and keep the coin. He came out with about 5k, which we didn't learn about until much later.

It'd be nice if the intent was about creating drama and interactivity between players, but I think that assuming that's the motive is foolishly optimistic. Generally, players steal for the same reason people steal: To gain, even at the expense of others. It doesn't matter if it's fantasy wealth or not, people preferring to step on you for personal gain leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and a poor experience at the table. It's something that's acceptable in a PvP game, but not when it's against your own team.

[blackjack50]

I can be greedy when I play. But I do it because I have 2 very irritating group members. One is lawful (yuck) and is sometimes likely to turn the loot in. And the other is just bad luck with the fuzz. He always seems to get in trouble with the guards. Better for me to have it and give it out if it is really needed. ;)

It doesn’t help that I’ve been in inflicted with Lycanthrope wererat disease. So greed is important.

[Pex]

I once played at a table where our party's champion was really cowardly and selfish, but played off like this hero of heroes who buttered up to all of the local people of power. We had completed a major quest that almost ended up getting several of us killed. The champion carts off several of the prisoners. He had made some deals with the DM, separate from the table, to turn in the bounty on the prisoners and keep the coin. He came out with about 5k, which we didn't learn about until much later.

It'd be nice if the intent was about creating drama and interactivity between players, but I think that assuming that's the motive is foolishly optimistic. Generally, players steal for the same reason people steal: To gain, even at the expense of others. It doesn't matter if it's fantasy wealth or not, people preferring to step on you for personal gain leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and a poor experience at the table. It's something that's acceptable in a PvP game, but not when it's against your own team.

It's worse when the DM enables the behavior. At that point the whole campaign is garbage.

[Moltenbrisingr]

I once played at a table where our party's champion was really cowardly and selfish, but played off like this hero of heroes who buttered up to all of the local people of power. We had completed a major quest that almost ended up getting several of us killed. The champion carts off several of the prisoners to turn them in. He had made some deals with the DM, separate from the table, to turn in the bounty on the prisoners (that we weren't made aware of) and keep the coin. He came out with about 5k, which we didn't learn about until much later.

It'd be nice if the intent was about creating drama and interactivity between players, but I think that assuming that's the motive is foolishly optimistic. Generally, players steal for the same reason people steal: To gain, even at the expense of others. It doesn't matter if it's fantasy wealth or not, people preferring to step on you for personal gain leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and a poor experience at the table. It's something that's acceptable in a PvP game, but not when it's against your own team.

I would have seriously considered leaving that game had I been a player. Rarely as a DM do I give information only to one player, especially cheating the other party members out of gold.

[Man_Over_Game]

I would have seriously considered leaving that game had I been a player. Rarely as a DM do I give information only to one player, especially cheating the other party members out of gold.

That part's complicated to me. If I was DMing, and a player asked to trade information that they didn't want the other players to know about, I normally wouldn't have a problem with it. I generally try not to tell players "No, you can't do that", or "No, you need to learn to share with the other kids".

Generally, a good table's DM is more of an engineer than a referee (That is, they work with what you want to do, not tell you what you're allowed to do).

I don't blame the DM. I blame the player.

[Moltenbrisingr]

That part's complicated to me. If I was DMing, and a player asked to trade information that they didn't want the other players to know about, I normally wouldn't have a problem with it. I generally try not to tell players "No, you can't do that", or "No, you need to learn to share with the other kids".

Generally, a good table's DM is more of an engineer than a referee (That is, they work with what you want to do, not tell you what you're allowed to do).

I don't blame the DM. I blame the player.

I see your point, i'm not saying that you should never be able to conceal information from the party (I simply choose to rarely do so), it is that as a player I now feel as though the DM is helping this guy steal the party's gold. I agree completely that the DM should be an impartial ref.

[Tanarii]

He came out with about 5k, which we didn't learn about until much later.
What did the party do about it when they learned about it?