[3.5] Familiar and Mineral Warrior Template

[Thurbane]

So, this went a bit beyond the scope of the Simple RAW thread...

Say I have an existing familiar, and want to give it the Mineral Warrior template.

My issues are as follows:

- The Mineralize Warrior spell only targets humanoids. Obviously, the template can be applied to other, corporeal creatures (the sample templated creature is a Devil). How would I do this with a familiar?

- If I successfully apply the template, does this impact on the familiar's ability to serve as my familiar? Does it disqualify it somehow?

- If no, how does the -2 Int from the template interact with the Int score listed on the familiar table?

Cheers - T

[Venger]

pao your familiar into a humanoid for long enough to cast the spell on him, then dismiss it, and the template will persist.

it doesn't say anything about making it not a familiar, so no

you apply it in the most favorable order, which would probably mean subtracting the 2 from the animal's base int, then adding from the table to get the highest number.

[Karl Aegis]

Share Spells
At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).

[Venger]

if you are suggesting he cast mineralize warrior on himself, the spell explicitly disallows this:

you cannot be the subject of your own spell

he could get someone else to do it, though.

[MisterKaws]

Maybe Greater Construct Essence on yourself(no sharing), then Greater Humanoid Essence on yourself(with sharing). The version targeting yourself gets dispelled, and the version targeting the familiar makes it a Humanoid.

Bit of a high level though.

[Venger]

Works if you're a warforged. Nice. You need to make it last for an hour though. Boost cl to 30 and extend is probably easiest. You don't need greater construct essence (it can't affect humanoids, only warforged), you can just do greater humanoid essence.

[MisterKaws]

Works if you're a warforged. Nice. You need to make it last for an hour though. Boost cl to 30 and extend is probably easiest. You don't need greater construct essence (it can't affect humanoids, only warforged), you can just do greater humanoid essence.

Oh, yes. Didn't catch it.

Change Construct Essence to Body of War then.:smallamused:

Gonna need Persist though.

[Elkad]

if you are suggesting he cast mineralize warrior on himself, the spell explicitly disallows this
The actual line is "it (the target) must be restrained in a coffinlike enclosure of stone for the duration of the casting. (Thus, you cannot be the subject of your own spell)."

So RAI, it appears the only reason you can't target yourself (and then share it with your non-Humanoid familiar) is because you are restrained.

Memorize it as Still. Problem solved.
Or tape a scroll to the underside of the coffinlid.
Or put it in a Ring of Spell Storing.

[Venger]

Oh, yes. Didn't catch it.

Change Construct Essence to Body of War then.:smallamused:

Gonna need Persist though.

So cast sor/wiz 7s and get dmm. easy peasy.

That still won't work to do this as a non-warforged. warforged titans aren't living constructs, so aren't a legal target for greater humanoid essence.


The actual line is "it (the target) must be restrained in a coffinlike enclosure of stone for the duration of the casting. (Thus, you cannot be the subject of your own spell)."

So RAI, it appears the only reason you can't target yourself is because you are restrained.

Memorize it as Still. Problem solved.
I had assumed you needed to be touching the target for the whole hour and that's why the coffin stopped you from doing it. I guess there's nothing in there about it being solid, so you could just leave a hole to remain in contact with the target while you cast .

[Elkad]

I had assumed you needed to be fondling the target for the whole hour and that's why the coffin stopped you from doing it.

If it's in the coffin, you can't fondle it from outside (well, mundanely). But if it's Still, it wouldn't matter, that part would go away. Same with using spell completion from a scroll (and then you don't even need to handle the components).

[Venger]

If it's in the coffin, you can't fondle it from outside (well, mundanely). But if it's Still, it wouldn't matter, that part would go away. Same with using spell completion from a scroll (and then you don't even need to handle the components).

the range of the spell is touch. if the duration of the spell is 1 hour, do you not need to touch the target the whole time? can you just touch him at the end?

[Elkad]

RAW? You touch after you complete the casting. Same as with shocking grasp or any other touch spell.

[Venger]

oh, ok, then you should be able to zap yourself with it if you just bury yourself in a really wide coffin so you can move your elbows.

[Feantar]

Well, the traditional adjustment from humanoid to everything is +3 levels (see the charm/dominate line). So homebrewing a 9th level version of the spell works. On the other hand, you could research a spell that specifically targets familiars - these are usually cheaper or same level as normal.

Or, of course, you could cheese it using polymorph chaining. Although it isn't particularly cheesing it, judging from the fact that the spell gives you a servant for a year and has a built in cost. Taking into consideration that the mineral warrior template is designed for a melee buff, and familiars aren't well known for their hand-to-hand prowess, I think it's pretty okay - depending on your familiar I'd even give you a discount to the spell's cost as a DM.

[Karl Aegis]

Presumably, if you cast the spell on a target not encased in a stone coffin, the spell fails. Share spells with your familiar, targeting both of you. The spell fails on you, but works on your familiar regardless of it not being a humanoid. The instantaneous duration on the spell means you can move away from your familiar and the spell's effect doesn't go away. Simple.