What Have You Done to Dungeon of the Mad Mage?

[InquisitiveSpy]

Hey guys, long time lurker, first time . . . answer-seeking guy.

I've been interested in running Dungeon of the Mad Mage in my homebrew setting for a while, but I've been wary of running a mega-dungeon crawl. I usually lean more on the social pillar in my games than the adventure seemed to allow, and I also wanted a more overarching theme to the dungeon than "run through Mad Halaster's funhouse."

With that in mind, I was hoping to find out what you guys would change if you ran the adventure, or what you did change when you ran it.

As an example, here's a big change I've thought about:

The main thing I've altered is the overall nature of the dungeon. I've basically turned Undermountain itself into a Great Old One, which will supplant Halaster's role as the clear BBEG as late as when the PCs take Halaster out or as early as when the PCs pick up the hints that the power in the dungeon has a will of its own. I'm aiming for the existence of the GOO to be the mystery that compels the PCs to delve into the lowest levels of the dungeon, rather than the PCs just getting down there to stop Halaster from completing his world-affecting goals mentioned in the adventure. I have to admit I took a lot of inspiration from a dndbeyond I found when I was researching how to mess with the module.

Following that idea, I've changed the backstories of several denizens of the dungeon from "Halaster brought me here" to "I came on my own to tap into the power of the dungeon," only for the GOO to turn around and ensnare them instead in one way or another. Halaster himself will remain the ever-present threat, since he is still the most powerful being inside the dungeon. I only bumped down his role as the signature villain because I can't think of a satisfying conclusion to the adventure after just getting to the bottom and killing Halaster, especially if I leave him with the ability to reincarnate inside the dungeon.

In case anyone was curious, I believe the title of the article was "How to Tell a Story in Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage."

[Fable Wright]

So, my character's goal in life is to steal Undermountain. Literally. Out from under Waterdeep, and sell it to the highest bidder. I planned on a couple steps, which would be refined through the DM's input/story beats/Contact Other Plane to fill in the details. But...

0. I am playing an Illusionist, and have access to Malleable Illusions.
1. Undermountain will always return planar travelers back to Undermountain. There is no escaping this.
2. Since the effect is permanent, and can't be dispelled, it stands to reason that there are one or more magic items generating this effect.
3. An outsider Plane Shifted to its native plane is, instead, trapped. So the spell is hard-coded to return objects & creatures to the material plane.
4. If we can find the item(s) that generate this effect, and use Nystul's Magic Aura, we may be able to get Undermountain to read the Ethereal plane as its plane of origin.
5. If everything in Undermountain is on the wrong plane, the effect should snap them all back to the "right" one.
6. Thus, Undermountain is Ethereal, and weightless, and thus could be dragged off to a buyer.
7. Undermountain has a boundary—a place where you can't teleport out from or into. This is the most logical place to find the items that enforce the rules of Undermountain.
8. Therefore, my goal is to reach each item on the boundary; hold that location for thirty days at each site, to let Nystul's Magic Aura settle to permanent; and ensure that the aura reads as unchanged. That means I'll need allies on each dungeon floor—possibly imported from another level.
9. I must do this without Halaster scry to detect what I'm doing, and Nondetection isn't cheap. So I'll need the wealth for components, and need to head back to town to restock. Gives me a good reason to farm the dungeon's wealth.
10. To get the whole thing to stick, I need Halaster out of the mountain. We're going to need to knock him out, carry him out of Undermountain, keep him from wielding any magic, and get back in before anyone else can steal our prize, and then...
11. From the Ethereal plane, view all of the Nystul's Magic Aura spells, and Malleable Illusion them into reading the Ethereal plane as my coup de grace.
12. Mirage Arcane—leave behind an illusion of Undermountain, to keep anyone from figuring out the entire dungeon had been stolen until too late! :smallbiggrin:

...This may just be me reacting negatively to the fact that, despite the name, Dragon Heist did not involve stealing entire dragons without anyone noticing. :smallannoyed:

Needless to say, this motivation slightly completely falls apart with your proposed changes, but it's another way to make the story interesting, I think.

[Phhase]

Interesting concept. I can see getting alot of eldritch horror mileage out of that idea. Your going to want to add plenty of subtle hints. If your adventurers take a sleep or are otherwise rendered unconscious, give them unsettling dreams of being devoured by a titanic beast. How exactly will they fight the dungeon though? And what happens, for example, if the part casts a terrain-affecting spell like earthquake or mold earth?

[RedMage125]

I think it's a great idea and a nice original spin on it.


Hey guys, long time lurker, first time . . . answer-seeking guy.


Querent. It means "one who asks/seeks"

[Millstone85]

I already saw the "knot in the Weave", described on page 6, as the real main antagonist.

It is clear that even if Halaster's death becomes a lasting one, thanks to Jhesiyra taking his place, the Snarl Knot will just have traded one puppet for another.

So I guess the biggest difference here is that your scenario would give the PCs a chance to defeat this entity?

[Fable Wright]

Interesting concept. I can see getting alot of eldritch horror mileage out of that idea. Your going to want to add plenty of subtle hints. If your adventurers take a sleep or are otherwise rendered unconscious, give them unsettling dreams of being devoured by a titanic beast. How exactly will they fight the dungeon though? And what happens, for example, if the part casts a terrain-affecting spell like earthquake or mold earth?

Nothing. It's Undermountain, and terrain-altering effects can't impact its walls, ceilings, floors, etc. Only the creatures, doors, and other fixtures.

These are listed as part of the standard dungeon restrictions.

[InquisitiveSpy]

Interesting concept. I can see getting alot of eldritch horror mileage out of that idea. Your going to want to add plenty of subtle hints. If your adventurers take a sleep or are otherwise rendered unconscious, give them unsettling dreams of being devoured by a titanic beast. How exactly will they fight the dungeon though? And what happens, for example, if the part casts a terrain-affecting spell like earthquake or mold earth?

As Fable Wright pointed out, I'll be keeping the built-in restriction on those spells. However, to answer your first question, I currently have two ideas. The first one will be banishing the GOO, the easiest solution for the players, but will only kick the proverbial can down the road. This will require the PCs to keep Halaster out of the equation long enough to finish the Mad Mage's own research on the nature of the dungeon, which will involve a small quest tracing Halaster's footsteps before he went full fruit loops. Then, they will have to perform a ritual while fending off those who don't want the Dungeon and its treasures to be forced out of the realm.

The second idea is essentially adding a 24th level to the dungeon, that can only be opened after completing specific tasks (e.g., waking dormant deities, drawing the GOO into trying to feed on them like a Tyranid Hive Fleet, etc.) Once opened, the PCs will not only have to fight the GOO's enthralled minions (specific monsters it decided to take extra long in digesting), but also deal with the GOO's ability to mess with the structure of the dungeon (like Halaster's, but on steroids). Eventually, the PCs will fight the literal heart of the GOO, and that will be the time when the PCs are finally at the center of its attention. Should they succeed, the Dungeon becomes a husk, all the special restrictions put on landscaping/teleportation finally subside, and all the creatures bound to the Dungeon are freed, for better or worse.

[Zuras]

In my campaign, keeping the RP interesting has mainly been about making the NPCs interesting enough that the PCs don’t kill them, and have some of them be recurring, so you can actually do some exposition on who hates who and keep them from needing to fight the whole dungeon.

I created a Goblin NPC who manipulated the party into taking out all his rivals in the early levels.

[Segev]

I've been weary of running a mega-dungeon crawl.The word you want here is "wary." Sorry, pedantic, but that's a pet peeve of mine. "Weary" means "tired." "Wary" means "worried" or "afraid" or "uncomfortable." Same root as "beware." "Beware" is telling somebody to "be wary," essentially. Also same root as "aware," which is about knowing something is there nowadays.

*ahem* On to the main point of the thread!




As an example, here's a big change I've thought about:

The main thing I've altered is the overall nature of the dungeon. I've basically turned Undermountain itself into a Great Old One, which will supplant Halaster's role as the clear BBEG as late as when the PCs take Halaster out or as early as when the PCs pick up the hints that the power in the dungeon has a will of its own. I'm aiming for the existence of the GOO to be the mystery that compels the PCs to delve into the lowest levels of the dungeon, rather than the PCs just getting down there to stop Halaster from completing his world-affecting goals mentioned in the adventure. I have to admit I took a lot of inspiration from a dndbeyond I found when I was researching how to mess with the module.

Following that idea, I've changed the backstories of several denizens of the dungeon from "Halaster brought me here" to "I came on my own to tap into the power of the dungeon," only for the GOO to turn around and ensnare them instead in one way or another. Halaster himself will remain the ever-present threat, since he is still the most powerful being inside the dungeon. I only bumped down his role as the signature villain because I can't think of a satisfying conclusion to the adventure after just getting to the bottom and killing Halaster, especially if I leave him with the ability to reincarnate inside the dungeon.
One of the Apprentices that vanished is now a sentient, disembodied force that controls various parts of the dungeon. You could have her either be slowly being eaten by this GOO, or in a war with the GOO to take control of Undermountain. Having the serendipitous events that she arranges be followed by massive anti-serendipity as the dungeon turns into a diabolus ex machina while the two consciousnesses war could hint at this. Having her be an unreliable or even seemingly-two-faced ally they tried to make but aren't sure they can trust due to how she seems to sometimes work AGAINST them, only to have her reveal, after they beat Halaster, that she's struggling with her very sanity and soul against the GOO that was here first and needs their help could ramp this up nicely.

[InquisitiveSpy]

One of the Apprentices that vanished is now a sentient, disembodied force that controls various parts of the dungeon. You could have her either be slowly being eaten by this GOO, or in a war with the GOO to take control of Undermountain. Having the serendipitous events that she arranges be followed by massive anti-serendipity as the dungeon turns into a diabolus ex machina while the two consciousnesses war could hint at this. Having her be an unreliable or even seemingly-two-faced ally they tried to make but aren't sure they can trust due to how she seems to sometimes work AGAINST them, only to have her reveal, after they beat Halaster, that she's struggling with her very sanity and soul against the GOO that was here first and needs their help could ramp this up nicely.

I LOVE this idea. I was honestly waffling on whether I should keep her around, but this sells it for me.

[Trustypeaches]

I’m running Dungeon of the Mad Mage as a fantasy game show run by the mad mage himself, along the lines of the hunger games or battle royale.

Inmates with life sentences are offered a chance to earn their freedom by participating in the Mad Mage’s Dungeon. Inmates are sorted into small groups and tasked with clearing the mega dungeon, level by level, facing challenge after challenge. The dungeon is a labyrinth designed by the game shows eccentric host, and populated with all manner of dangerous beasts, imprisoned monstrosities, and other deadly forces of opposition to the player’s success. Exoneration and limitless wealth are awarded to the group of inmates who arise victorious.